Does Bates blow or Saban a genius?

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  • Bling
    Registered User
    • Jul 2004
    • 13022

    Does Bates blow or Saban a genius?

    I'll take Jason Taylor and Zach Thomas, and use them as an example. This example is to prove that Nick Saban's scheme gets more bang for your buck from an old guy than in his prime.


    Jason Taylor of 2002. He's 28.
    Tackles - 69
    Solo - 45
    Ast - 24
    Sacks - 18.5
    Games played - 16

    Jason Taylor of 2005. He's 31.
    Tackles - 74
    Solo - 52
    Ast - 22
    Sacks - 12
    Games played - 16 (he was injured, but we'll ignore the facts)


    Who had the better year? We're taking Jason Taylor's best year under Bates. That's quite a few years, and comparing it to 1 year under Saban. JT had a career tackles year, and his 3 best sack year.

    Zach Thomas of 2002. He's 29.
    Tackles - 156
    Solo - 101
    Ast - 55
    Sacks - .5
    Games played - 16

    Zach Thomas of 2005. He's 32.
    Tackles - 158
    Solo - 104
    Ast - 54
    Sacks - 2
    Games played 14.

    Again, ZT had a better year under 1 year of Saban, than any of his years under Bates. He had his best year ever under coach Saban.







    Try to spin it guys. Bates was not able to use prime players to do quite the job Saban did with old guys. We could also say that the Dolphins for a time had the most talented Defense in the league. Patrick Surtain (who I think is the #1 CB in the league), Sam Madison, Adewale Ogunleye, Brock Marion, Larry Chester, Tim Bowens have all been Pro Bowlers (except Chester), I believe. Miami had a very talented Defense at one time. Now Saban has greated a Defense that could rival it in very soon. This to me proves that Bills fans have to admit Bates stinks or Saban is a great coach?


    My honest opinion of Bates is that he brings in talented guys. However, you'll soon know what formation he's in. He's way too conservative, and barely blitzes. You best re-sign Clements unless you have a better CB ready. Miami for years was mediocre at Pass Defense. If Spikes is healthy, and you can get some healthy, huge DT's, you'll definitely plug the middle. I wish him the best here, he definitely can be an improvement for you guys.
  • deathadder
    Registered User
    • Mar 2003
    • 304

    #2
    Re: Does Bates blow or Saban a genius?

    You cannot compare the stats of the 2 coaches. If you forgot, Bates used a 4-3 defense, while Saban uses a 3-4. Each player will have different stats because of the system they are in. Just my 2 cents.
    http://www.gizmogamer.com - Your #1 source for the latest gaming, gadgets, and technology news!

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    • Crisis
      Registered User
      • Aug 2004
      • 12738

      #3
      Re: Does Bates blow or Saban a genius?

      What was their total defense rank?

      I'll take team production over individual player production.
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      I will not be surprised if Tebow has more success than Peyton in the NFL.

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      • Devin
        The Octagon
        • Apr 2003
        • 23878

        #4
        Re: Does Bates blow or Saban a genius?

        http://gridironjunkies.net/forums/index.php

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        • OpIv37
          Acid Douching Asswipe
          • Sep 2002
          • 101344

          #5
          Re: Does Bates blow or Saban a genius?

          Eric Moulds 96-97 under Marv Levy
          2002 under Gregg Williams

          Year Team G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD
          1996 Buffalo Bills 16 5 20 279 14.0 47 2 4 1 11
          1997 Buffalo Bills 16 8 29 294 10.1 32 0 1 0 18
          2002 Buffalo Bills 16 15 100 1292 12.9 70 10 14 6 64

          Does that mean that Gregg Williams is a better coach than Marv Levy? Come on Bling- these stats don't prove anything about Bates or Saban. You're using faulty logic. There are any number of factors that could have accounted for the difference in stats between the two years, and you're just ignoring them.
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          • !Papacrunk!
            Registered User
            • Mar 2004
            • 2786

            #6
            Re: Does Bates blow or Saban a genius?

            Originally posted by deathadder
            You cannot compare the stats of the 2 coaches. If you forgot, Bates used a 4-3 defense, while Saban uses a 3-4. Each player will have different stats because of the system they are in. Just my 2 cents.
            We used both, a hybrid if you will

            Comment

            • justasportsfan
              Registered User
              • Jul 2002
              • 71631

              #7
              Re: Does Bates blow or Saban a genius?

              Originally posted by Bling
              I'll take Jason Taylor and Zach Thomas, and use them as an example. This example is to prove that Nick Saban's scheme gets more bang for your buck from an old guy than in his prime.


              Jason Taylor of 2002. He's 28.
              Tackles - 69
              Solo - 45
              Ast - 24
              Sacks - 18.5
              Games played - 16

              Jason Taylor of 2005. He's 31.
              Tackles - 74
              Solo - 52
              Ast - 22
              Sacks - 12
              Games played - 16 (he was injured, but we'll ignore the facts)


              Who had the better year? We're taking Jason Taylor's best year under Bates. That's quite a few years, and comparing it to 1 year under Saban. JT had a career tackles year, and his 3 best sack year.

              Zach Thomas of 2002. He's 29.
              Tackles - 156
              Solo - 101
              Ast - 55
              Sacks - .5
              Games played - 16

              Zach Thomas of 2005. He's 32.
              Tackles - 158
              Solo - 104
              Ast - 54
              Sacks - 2
              Games played 14.

              Again, ZT had a better year under 1 year of Saban, than any of his years under Bates. He had his best year ever under coach Saban.







              Try to spin it guys. Bates was not able to use prime players to do quite the job Saban did with old guys. We could also say that the Dolphins for a time had the most talented Defense in the league. Patrick Surtain (who I think is the #1 CB in the league), Sam Madison, Adewale Ogunleye, Brock Marion, Larry Chester, Tim Bowens have all been Pro Bowlers (except Chester), I believe. Miami had a very talented Defense at one time. Now Saban has greated a Defense that could rival it in very soon. This to me proves that Bills fans have to admit Bates stinks or Saban is a great coach?


              My honest opinion of Bates is that he brings in talented guys. However, you'll soon know what formation he's in. He's way too conservative, and barely blitzes. You best re-sign Clements unless you have a better CB ready. Miami for years was mediocre at Pass Defense. If Spikes is healthy, and you can get some healthy, huge DT's, you'll definitely plug the middle. I wish him the best here, he definitely can be an improvement for you guys.
              you actually are the one trying to spin things. You forget that Bates was under Wanny and that Wanny had the final say.

              Here's a good point that your fellow finfan made over at FH.

              Flintsilver:
              "Well, not to spoil your fun with facts, but the closest any of Bates' related offenses have been to his defenses was this year, when Green Bay's 18th ranked offense was matched with his 7th ranked defense.

              Other years, offense/defense: (when Bates was miami's DC)

              2000: 27/6
              2001: 24/5
              2002: 15/3
              2003: 24/11
              2004: 29/8

              Wouldn't hurt to move the ball every now and again and maybe keep the defense off the field."

              Having an O under Fiedler would definitely hurt your D if they are always on the field.


              You want to compare a couple of players stats or an entire D? Wanna compare Bates' D last year to Miami's D under Saban or would you rather stick to your stats that best fits the point your are trying to make?
              sacrifice1
              https://theinterviewwithgod.com/video/

              Comment

              • Devin
                The Octagon
                • Apr 2003
                • 23878

                #8
                Re: Does Bates blow or Saban a genius?

                DAMN!
                http://gridironjunkies.net/forums/index.php

                Comment

                • justasportsfan
                  Registered User
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 71631

                  #9
                  Re: Does Bates blow or Saban a genius?

                  Here you go

                  The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more.


                  If last season was your way of determining who's better than Saban needs to learn from bates. Facts speak louder than your spin.
                  sacrifice1
                  https://theinterviewwithgod.com/video/

                  Comment

                  • Devin
                    The Octagon
                    • Apr 2003
                    • 23878

                    #10
                    Re: Does Bates blow or Saban a genius?

                    http://gridironjunkies.net/forums/index.php

                    Comment

                    • !Papacrunk!
                      Registered User
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 2786

                      #11
                      Re: Does Bates blow or Saban a genius?

                      Originally posted by justasportsfan
                      Here you go

                      The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more.


                      If last season was your way of determining who's better than Saban needs to learn from bates. Facts speak louder than your spin.
                      I guess w/ the 29th ranked defense, Bates would be really needed.

                      Don't take this as smack, but how does such a mean and promising (not being sarcastic) 04 Buffalo defense plummet to the 29th ranked defense. Did the loss of Takeo and Williams hurt the team that much? Maybe I jinxed them by having the Buffalo D on my FF team.

                      Comment

                      • Nighthawk
                        Getting old waiting for a championship in Buffalo!
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 15437

                        #12
                        Re: Does Bates blow or Saban a genius?

                        Originally posted by Bling
                        I'll take Jason Taylor and Zach Thomas, and use them as an example. This example is to prove that Nick Saban's scheme gets more bang for your buck from an old guy than in his prime.


                        Jason Taylor of 2002. He's 28.
                        Tackles - 69
                        Solo - 45
                        Ast - 24
                        Sacks - 18.5
                        Games played - 16

                        Jason Taylor of 2005. He's 31.
                        Tackles - 74
                        Solo - 52
                        Ast - 22
                        Sacks - 12
                        Games played - 16 (he was injured, but we'll ignore the facts)


                        Who had the better year? We're taking Jason Taylor's best year under Bates. That's quite a few years, and comparing it to 1 year under Saban. JT had a career tackles year, and his 3 best sack year.

                        Zach Thomas of 2002. He's 29.
                        Tackles - 156
                        Solo - 101
                        Ast - 55
                        Sacks - .5
                        Games played - 16

                        Zach Thomas of 2005. He's 32.
                        Tackles - 158
                        Solo - 104
                        Ast - 54
                        Sacks - 2
                        Games played 14.

                        Again, ZT had a better year under 1 year of Saban, than any of his years under Bates. He had his best year ever under coach Saban.







                        Try to spin it guys. Bates was not able to use prime players to do quite the job Saban did with old guys. We could also say that the Dolphins for a time had the most talented Defense in the league. Patrick Surtain (who I think is the #1 CB in the league), Sam Madison, Adewale Ogunleye, Brock Marion, Larry Chester, Tim Bowens have all been Pro Bowlers (except Chester), I believe. Miami had a very talented Defense at one time. Now Saban has greated a Defense that could rival it in very soon. This to me proves that Bills fans have to admit Bates stinks or Saban is a great coach?


                        My honest opinion of Bates is that he brings in talented guys. However, you'll soon know what formation he's in. He's way too conservative, and barely blitzes. You best re-sign Clements unless you have a better CB ready. Miami for years was mediocre at Pass Defense. If Spikes is healthy, and you can get some healthy, huge DT's, you'll definitely plug the middle. I wish him the best here, he definitely can be an improvement for you guys.

                        Here's a spin...your schedule was easy from having such a crappy team the year before. Sounds about right!

                        Comment

                        • justasportsfan
                          Registered User
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 71631

                          #13
                          Re: Does Bates blow or Saban a genius?

                          Originally posted by !Papacrunk!
                          I guess w/ the 29th ranked defense, Bates would be really needed.
                          definitely

                          Originally posted by !Papacrunk!
                          Don't take this as smack, but how does such a mean and promising (not being sarcastic) 04 Buffalo defense plummet to the 29th ranked defense. Did the loss of Takeo and Williams hurt the team that much? Maybe I jinxed them by having the Buffalo D on my FF team.
                          Dick Lebaeu
                          sacrifice1
                          https://theinterviewwithgod.com/video/

                          Comment

                          • Bling
                            Registered User
                            • Jul 2004
                            • 13022

                            #14
                            Re: Does Bates blow or Saban a genius?

                            Originally posted by deathadder
                            You cannot compare the stats of the 2 coaches. If you forgot, Bates used a 4-3 defense, while Saban uses a 3-4. Each player will have different stats because of the system they are in. Just my 2 cents.
                            So what you just said was that Bates' scheme didn't get the best out of the Dolphin's 2 best Defensive players?

                            Comment

                            • justasportsfan
                              Registered User
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 71631

                              #15
                              Re: Does Bates blow or Saban a genius?

                              where was miami's D under Bates before he left compared to Sbans D last year?

                              The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more.


                              As you can see Miami's D was ranked higher when Bates was the DC with Wanny as a HC. Hmmm, maybe I stumbled on something. Wanny knew his D compared to Saban
                              sacrifice1
                              https://theinterviewwithgod.com/video/

                              Comment

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