Who else here thinks we can win now with JP?

[ICE74129]

Obviously l do. I feel we would have this year if...

1)MM was a strong man let alone HC.
2) The Defense did it's job
3) The OL had actually been improved.

4) The veterans had done their jobs and not tried to pin the TEAMS issues on JP and undermine him in the locker room.


I feel we can rack up 10 wins next year if....

1) They cut some dead weight veterans. Williams, Moulds, Adams, Campbell and Milloy.

2) replace them with younger, more hungry and TEAM ORIENTED talent.

3) The Defense gains two new DT's and at least one new safety with good playcalling.

4) the OL gets at least two new guys. 3 would be prefered. In as such Jim McNally has a HUGE say on the OL FA's/Picks and we can switch to a Zone blocking scheme.

5) better/ Smarter playcalling, which Fairchild will take care of.

6) we get a REAL TE!


Implement the zone blocking to get whomever at RB going and give JP time to throw. Keep the system simple yet unpredictable. ( and yes you can do both). Then play great Defense and ST's.

Chicago did that with Orton, they can do that with JP. I feel the meat of FA money needs to be on both lines, then Safety, TE and a replacement WR. Draft should be the same way.

We do that and we CAN win now with JP. Jauron said something that also makes me think JP will have every chance to start. he said something to the effect that the system has to be good, yet simple enough it doesn't take 3-4 years to 'develop a player' in it. Or something to that effect.

The Front office, Coaches, Defense and OL do thier jobs, JP will be fine.

[FinsAreLife]

i think JP gives you a chance to win some tough games, i will tell you i feel he will make some big mistakes still, but he is getting more experience and with that come less mistakes, hes got a good reciever in Evans, but whatelse does he have, thats also part of the issue

[X-Era]

Obviously l do. I feel we would have this year if...

1)MM was a strong man let alone HC.
2) The Defense did it's job
3) The OL had actually been improved.

4) The veterans had done their jobs and not tried to pin the TEAMS issues on JP and undermine him in the locker room.


I feel we can rack up 10 wins next year if....

1) They cut some dead weight veterans. Williams, Moulds, Adams, Campbell and Milloy.

2) replace them with younger, more hungry and TEAM ORIENTED talent.

3) The Defense gains two new DT's and at least one new safety with good playcalling.

4) the OL gets at least two new guys. 3 would be prefered. In as such Jim McNally has a HUGE say on the OL FA's/Picks and we can switch to a Zone blocking scheme.

5) better/ Smarter playcalling, which Fairchild will take care of.

6) we get a REAL TE!


Implement the zone blocking to get whomever at RB going and give JP time to throw. Keep the system simple yet unpredictable. ( and yes you can do both). Then play great Defense and ST's.

Chicago did that with Orton, they can do that with JP. I feel the meat of FA money needs to be on both lines, then Safety, TE and a replacement WR. Draft should be the same way.

We do that and we CAN win now with JP. Jauron said something that also makes me think JP will have every chance to start. he said something to the effect that the system has to be good, yet simple enough it doesn't take 3-4 years to 'develop a player' in it. Or something to that effect.

The Front office, Coaches, Defense and OL do thier jobs, JP will be fine.
2 FA o-linemen, plus a first day OL or 2, you can bet we get much much better.

I absolutely feel we can win day one with JP.

I was at the ATL game and noticed something you would never see on TV. It took the WR's FOREVER to get into their cuts. In other words, JP dropped back into a 3 step or 5 step and there was several seconds until the WR's made their breaks. I watched JP have to sit there waiting until he could throw it. Thats bad playcalling and scheming.

Hopefully with Fairchild we will much more quick slants and 10 yard cross routes to allow for some choices.

Its not dink and dunk, you can always run 1 guy long, but there were no underneath routes at all.

I guess Im just saying that Id like to see what a whole new playbook and a revamped o-line does for JP. Add in another offseason of preparation and training, YES I think we can win next year with him.

The only thing that can derail all of this is a silly QB controversy like the one Mularkey pulled. Neither QB knew whether they were coming or going, it was a mess that put them out of synch and killed any chance to jell. I think it cost us as much as maybe 2 games.

Thank god that pile of mularkey is gone now.

As far as your comments, ABSOLUTELY!!! the zone blocking scheme works wonders for a run O. Who are those 1st round OL for Denver? Yet they run the scheme and have had like 4 consecutive RB's run for over 1K.

Its the perfect blocking scheme for a RB with vision. They can pick and choose there holes rather than being forced to pound it into a plugged hole.

The other thing it does is allows a mobile QB to move with the blocks, draw the D up tight, and then hit the WR's long. It could be great for JP as well.

[ICE74129]

2 FA o-linemen, plus a first day OL or 2, you can bet we get much much better.

I absolutely feel we can win day one with JP.

I was at the ATL game and noticed something you would never see on TV. It took the WR's FOREVER to get into their cuts. In other words, JP dropped back into a 3 step or 5 step and there was several seconds until the WR's made their breaks. I watched JP have to sit there waiting until he could throw it. Thats bad playcalling and scheming.

Hopefully with Fairchild we will much more quick slants and 10 yard cross routes to allow for some choices.

Its not dink and dunk, you can always run 1 guy long, but there were no underneath routes at all.

I guess Im just saying that Id like to see what a whole new playbook and a revamped o-line does for JP. Add in another offseason of preparation and training, YES I think we can win next year with him.

The only thing that can derail all of this is a silly QB controversy like the one Mularkey pulled. Neither QB knew whether they were coming or going, it was a mess that put them out of synch and killed any chance to jell. I think it cost us as much as maybe 2 games.

Thank god that pile of mularkey is gone now.

To further your point. SEVERAL times this year Jim Kelly ripped both the aledged system and the WR's. He said he didn't know what it was MM was trying to do. It had no consistancy at all. As for the WR's he said they never seem to be able to get off of the ball and into thier routes quick.

[TedMock]

I think we can win with JP. He did start to mature later on. Statistically he wasn't any better, but his decision making vastly improved. Little things like throwing the ball out of bounds instead of taking a sack are important steps. I think our interior o-line is the biggest reason we weren't good. Most of the pressure came up the gut and it came immediately. Holcomb got rid of the ball but always had 2 or 3 batted at the line. Losman would start to run and get sacked. Either way, the old cliche' holds true. "you win and lose in the trenches." 2 guards, or a center and a guard are absolutely necessary. I'm still not done with Williams at some position. At the end of 2004 he vastly improved and was crushing people on the run. Last year he was injured quite a bit. Either an unfortunate year, or he's a big wuss. I'm not opposed to dumping that salary though either. On defense, a big, fat, DT would be ideal. Somebody to take up blockers. Depending on the scheme, we may need bigger DE's too. Schobel's a decent pass rusher, but not a great overall DE. He may work better as an OLB in a 3-4. It really depends on flexibility in that case. Overall, the o-line, a DT, and a FS would be the biggest areas for us to look at IMO.

[justasportsfan]

1) They cut some dead weight veterans. Moulds, Adams, . Dead wieght because of caps reasons or because of JP reasons.

Just so you know Evans was on Moulds' side when it came to putting the best player in there. By your reasoning (JP related) let's cut Evans too. He's obviously a cancer since he was on Moulds' side.

You are obviously trying to divide the players based on your infatuation for JP. Not a valid reason, coach. If your reason was to cut Moulds because of cap reasons, then that would be valid. Otherwise, if Moulds restructures, he stays and both he and JP will have to iron out their differences if there ever was one.

You act like Moulds had a PERSONAL vendetta against JP, guess what? Most of the vets core wanted the best player in there. Let's get rid of them all. NOT.



Eveything you stated in there would work for ANY qb including KH "at this point in time based on where they are at right now" . Not just JP.

[X-Era]

Dead wieght because of caps reasons or because of JP reasons.

Just so you know Evans was on Moulds' side when it came to putting the best player in there. By your reasoning (JP related) let's cut Evans too. He's obviously a cancer since he was on Moulds' side.

You are obviously trying to divide the players based on your infatuation for JP. Not a valid reason, coach. If your reason was to cut Moulds because of cap reasons, then that would be valid. Otherwise, if Moulds restructures, he stays and both he and JP will have to iron out their differences if there ever was one.

You act like Moulds had a PERSONAL vendetta against JP, guess what? Most of the vets core wanted the best player in there. Let's get rid of them all. NOT.



Eveything you stated in there would work for ANY qb including KH "at this point in time based on where they are at right now" . Not just JP.

Dont even remotely try to pull the Evans was on Moulds side sh_t. Thats a load of crap that you have invented to support your hatred for JP.

Let me see, JP's favorite target was Evans and Evans had like 4 long TD's with him an dlike none with Hole-cumb. But somehow Evans wasnt a fan of JP? Thats BS. I think what you are refering to is Evans's responses to direct questions about whether KH starting was the right move. Evans, unlike Moulds, was a class act and went along with whomever the coach picked.

But Evans was MUCH more productive under JP and hence its a bigtime BS reach that he wanted Holcomb as the starter.

You have been living in fantasy land and now want to create facts to support your arguements.

Just-a-cut-the-BS man!

[FirstDownBills]

Obviously l do. I feel we would have this year if...

1)MM was a strong man let alone HC.
2) The Defense did it's job
3) The OL had actually been improved.

4) The veterans had done their jobs and not tried to pin the TEAMS issues on JP and undermine him in the locker room.


I feel we can rack up 10 wins next year if....

1) They cut some dead weight veterans. Williams, Moulds, Adams, Campbell and Milloy.

2) replace them with younger, more hungry and TEAM ORIENTED talent.

3) The Defense gains two new DT's and at least one new safety with good playcalling.

4) the OL gets at least two new guys. 3 would be prefered. In as such Jim McNally has a HUGE say on the OL FA's/Picks and we can switch to a Zone blocking scheme.

5) better/ Smarter playcalling, which Fairchild will take care of.

6) we get a REAL TE!


Implement the zone blocking to get whomever at RB going and give JP time to throw. Keep the system simple yet unpredictable. ( and yes you can do both). Then play great Defense and ST's.

Chicago did that with Orton, they can do that with JP. I feel the meat of FA money needs to be on both lines, then Safety, TE and a replacement WR. Draft should be the same way.

We do that and we CAN win now with JP. Jauron said something that also makes me think JP will have every chance to start. he said something to the effect that the system has to be good, yet simple enough it doesn't take 3-4 years to 'develop a player' in it. Or something to that effect.

The Front office, Coaches, Defense and OL do thier jobs, JP will be fine.


J.P is our next stud QB. I'm on board Ice!

[OpIv37]

ICE, I think you're asking the wrong questions. QB play was a sore spot for us, but it was EXPECTED to be a sore spot. Willis, the D and the ST were supposed to take the pressure off, and that never happened (with the exception of ST). The reality is JP (and Holcomb for that matter) weren't really given the opportunity to succeed and neither should be judged based on this past season. I'm not really sure we can win AT ALL unless huge changes are made to the OL and DL.

That being said, I hope JP can win a camp competition. I want him to play but I think TD and MM made a huge mistake by handing him the keys without making him earn it. Holcomb seems to be a bit better at this point, but he's 33 and has never had real success in this league. We need to find our QB of the future, and if it's not JP we need to establish that and move on. If it is JP, great- he needs to get on the field and take his lumps (why does it feel like i've been saying this for a year and a half? Oh right- I have).

[Michael82]

I'm on board. I thought JP Losman showed some good development and if we didn't have a moron for a head coach, he would have started the last two games of the season and kept improving. So what if we finished out 4-12 instead of 5-11. I don't care. As long as our rookie QB got the experience that he needs.

After watching the highlight video, i saw some nice plays by JP Losman and I'm excited to see how he does with a different offense that actually utilizes his talents more than Mularkey did.

[FirstDownBills]

ICE, I think you're asking the wrong questions. QB play was a sore spot for us, but it was EXPECTED to be a sore spot. Willis, the D and the ST were supposed to take the pressure off, and that never happened (with the exception of ST). The reality is JP (and Holcomb for that matter) weren't really given the opportunity to succeed and neither should be judged based on this past season. I'm not really sure we can win AT ALL unless huge changes are made to the OL and DL.

That being said, I hope JP can win a camp competition. I want him to play but I think TD and MM made a huge mistake by handing him the keys without making him earn it. Holcomb seems to be a bit better at this point, but he's 33 and has never had real success in this league. We need to find our QB of the future, and if it's not JP we need to establish that and move on. If it is JP, great- he needs to get on the field and take his lumps (why does it feel like i've been saying this for a year and a half? Oh right- I have).


Thats because Mike Mularkey was mentally handicapped as a coach.

[FirstDownBills]

I'm on board. I thought JP Losman showed some good development and if we didn't have a moron for a head coach, he would have started the last two games of the season and kept improving. So what if we finished out 4-12 instead of 5-11. I don't care. As long as our rookie QB got the experience that he needs.

After watching the highlight video, i saw some nice plays by JP Losman and I'm excited to see how he does with a different offense that actually utilizes his talents more than Mularkey did.


Mikey, I'm excited too! Bring on the fall already! :jam:

[Night Train]

Never have I witnessed a young QB being handled worse than Losman. TD made the decision to throw him to the wolves by cutting Bledsoe and penciling him as the starter. He hadn't earned anything at that point and didn't have the backing/confidence of the Vets.

Add to the fact that MM/Clements called a horrid gameplan for a 1st year starter and his failure was a given. His benching early on was justified. Once he came back off the bench against KC and won the game, he should have started the remainder of the season. That " injury " he supposedly had was minor.

With a new coaching staff, let him and Holcomb compete for the job, so as to garner the support of the roster. He should easily win and have a better OL and maybe an extra weapon or 2 to work with.

Drafting or signing a QB in 2006 is insane. OL, DL , CB etc. Real issues over imagined.


BTW- don't mention Todd Collins as another example of a young QB being mishandled. I mean QB's with actual talent.
Upon attending Collins first camp at Fredonia, I knew within 30 minutes of the 1st practice that Collins was a major dud.

[tonyc37]

If we were a lock to go to the playoffs and win I'd say lets keep Moulds,but thats not the case.Holcomb is not good enough and he has a weak arm.When teams game planned for his decision making wasn't much better than Losmans' considering he's been in the NFL for 10 years and is upwards of 32 years old.Remmeber the 4th dowwn in New England when he through way short to Moulds.A season vet has to throw that ball past the marker no matter what.He didn't game over.Not the kind dicision making I want of a guy thats been around for going on 11 years

[X-Era]

ICE, I think you're asking the wrong questions. QB play was a sore spot for us, but it was EXPECTED to be a sore spot. Willis, the D and the ST were supposed to take the pressure off, and that never happened (with the exception of ST). The reality is JP (and Holcomb for that matter) weren't really given the opportunity to succeed and neither should be judged based on this past season. I'm not really sure we can win AT ALL unless huge changes are made to the OL and DL.

That being said, I hope JP can win a camp competition. I want him to play but I think TD and MM made a huge mistake by handing him the keys without making him earn it. Holcomb seems to be a bit better at this point, but he's 33 and has never had real success in this league. We need to find our QB of the future, and if it's not JP we need to establish that and move on. If it is JP, great- he needs to get on the field and take his lumps (why does it feel like i've been saying this for a year and a half? Oh right- I have).

I am 400% behind this! I only want to see if JP can be OUR guy ON the field. If he aint, can his a_s and get another young QB who IS!

[X-Era]

If we were a lock to go to the playoffs and win I'd say lets keep Moulds,but thats not the case.Holcomb is not good enough and he has a weak arm.When teams game planned for his decision making wasn't much better than Losmans' considering he's been in the NFL for 10 years and is upwards of 32 years old.Remmeber the 4th dowwn in New England when he through way short to Moulds.A season vet has to throw that ball past the marker no matter what.He didn't game over.Not the kind dicision making I want of a guy thats been around for going on 11 years

Yeah, anyone who thinks you can win games when you move the ball all over your opponenet but score 3 lowsy points on the defending world champs at the half, is just plain NUTS!

[Bufftp]

I believe with an improved offensive line, an OC commited to the run we can win now with JP! :up:

Holcomb will never be better than 8-8 or 9-7.

We should have paid the bills and taken our lumps with JP's growth curve last season. Look what all the "win now" with Holcomb got us, a losing record a "great" win against Cinci and worse draft pick.

I am prepared to take my lumps with JP next year.

[bledslow]

Obviously l do. I feel we would have this year if...

1)MM was a strong man let alone HC.
2) The Defense did it's job
3) The OL had actually been improved.

4) The veterans had done their jobs and not tried to pin the TEAMS issues on JP and undermine him in the locker room.


I feel we can rack up 10 wins next year if....

1) They cut some dead weight veterans. Williams, Moulds, Adams, Campbell and Milloy.

2) replace them with younger, more hungry and TEAM ORIENTED talent.

3) The Defense gains two new DT's and at least one new safety with good playcalling.

4) the OL gets at least two new guys. 3 would be prefered. In as such Jim McNally has a HUGE say on the OL FA's/Picks and we can switch to a Zone blocking scheme.

5) better/ Smarter playcalling, which Fairchild will take care of.

6) we get a REAL TE!


Implement the zone blocking to get whomever at RB going and give JP time to throw. Keep the system simple yet unpredictable. ( and yes you can do both). Then play great Defense and ST's.

Chicago did that with Orton, they can do that with JP. I feel the meat of FA money needs to be on both lines, then Safety, TE and a replacement WR. Draft should be the same way.

We do that and we CAN win now with JP. Jauron said something that also makes me think JP will have every chance to start. he said something to the effect that the system has to be good, yet simple enough it doesn't take 3-4 years to 'develop a player' in it. Or something to that effect.

The Front office, Coaches, Defense and OL do thier jobs, JP will be fine.



JEES,if you do ALL those things,maybe you can win 10 games with jp...but if you do all those thing with holcomb in there,you would win 14-15 games.why you ask? well because he is a real qb.

[justasportsfan]

Dont even remotely try to pull the Evans was on Moulds side sh_t. Thats a load of crap that you have invented to support your hatred for JP.


I hate JP? Haha! You need to go back to school and learn how to read.

I never hated JP. I like the guy and stated that numerous times. I am not however blind in thinking he is the answer so early in his carreer unlike you JP groupies.

I'd do more searching in the archive but you can't read anyways. But here's the part where you and ICe think Moulds is the only cancer for voicing their sentiments out. By Ice's logic, let's cut those who aren't team players. That means Evans too no? Whether it's playcalling or qb decisions, they both questioned therefore locker room cancers. I'd search for the article where Evans said to go with the best player but you ain't worth it if you even thought I hated JP. Haha!

http://www.billszone.com/mtlog/archives/2005/09/26/moulds_evans_run_short_on_patience.php

[ublinkwescore]

There's no question that we can win now - but we're gonna need a line for Willis to run behind so that he can take pressure off of JP like he was supposed to last year, and that line also needs to know how to pass protect - I agree we need to make McNally's desires paramount this offseason as far as FA goes - then we need to either get a good run stuffing DT or a good pass rushing DE through the draft. Cut some dead weight like Milloy, and Williams, restructure Moulds, and get some safety help through FA - our LBers are not a definite need just yet - I'd also be for dumping/trading Posey, bumping up Crowell.

[ICE74129]

Dead wieght because of caps reasons or because of JP reasons.

Just so you know Evans was on Moulds' side when it came to putting the best player in there. By your reasoning (JP related) let's cut Evans too. He's obviously a cancer since he was on Moulds' side.

You are obviously trying to divide the players based on your infatuation for JP. Not a valid reason, coach. If your reason was to cut Moulds because of cap reasons, then that would be valid. Otherwise, if Moulds restructures, he stays and both he and JP will have to iron out their differences if there ever was one.

You act like Moulds had a PERSONAL vendetta against JP, guess what? Most of the vets core wanted the best player in there. Let's get rid of them all. NOT.



Eveything you stated in there would work for ANY qb including KH "at this point in time based on where they are at right now" . Not just JP.

Really? Last I checked Holcomb is a career loser whereas JP really hasn't started yet. And also, when has holcomb hit a ball over 35 yards that wasn't picked off or just flat looked like crap?

Holcomb can't win, period. He isn't the QB that will get it done for us. Drop the holcomb love.

[Meathead]

I feel we would have [won with jp] this year if...

1)MM was a strong man let alone HC.
2) The Defense did it's job
3) The OL had actually been improved.

4) The veterans had done their jobs and not tried to pin the TEAMS issues on JP and undermine him in the locker room.

apparently you either didnt watch the games or were heavily drugged the last four months

jp was brutal the first half of the season. less than 100 yds passing 3 of his first 4 starts (or something like that), less than 50% completion rate, etc.

he was flat-out not ready to play at a winning level last season no matter who he played for

that said, i saw steady improvement every time he played and a ton of reason to be confident hell be a very good qb in this league

hes going to start lighting it up sometime next season im just not sure when

[The_Philster]

I think we can do it....but dumping Moulds will hurt that...people need to get off the Moulds thing..he was frustrated cause he wasn't getting the ball....which was because he's double-covered so much...how many rookie signal callers are going to have an easy time finding their top WRs open under those circumstances? Evans was singled..so JP went there..or to Reed...also singled.

[ICE74129]

apparently you either didnt watch the games or were heavily drugged the last four months

jp was brutal the first half of the season. less than 100 yds passing 3 of his first 4 starts (or something like that), less than 50% completion rate, etc.

he was flat-out not ready to play at a winning level last season no matter who he played for

that said, i saw steady improvement every time he played and a ton of reason to be confident hell be a very good qb in this league

hes going to start lighting it up sometime next season im just not sure when

And if you had a clue about football you would realise WHY JP had a hard time. first year starter, Crap for an OL, Moronic playcalling and a defense that couldn't stop a High school team from running on them.

had you seen these facts you would understand why JP had a hard time.

[ICE74129]

I think we can do it....but dumping Moulds will hurt that...people need to get off the Moulds thing..he was frustrated cause he wasn't getting the ball....which was because he's double-covered so much...how many rookie signal callers are going to have an easy time finding their top WRs open under those circumstances? Evans was singled..so JP went there..or to Reed...also singled.

I don't care he was frustrated. who cares? Look the man had a job to do and instead worried about his PERSONAL situation. Mushin Muhamed didn't like orton being in there either. but he did his job and orton goes 10-3 as a starter.

Again had the vets done thier jobs, there would be MUCH less to gripe about. Instead moulds etal caused more problems and made it harder on JP. Moulds will have to GROW UP and put his PERSONAL goals and wants aside to stay here.

[ScottLawrence]

Anybody else find this thread hilarious?


ICE says we can't win with Holcomb, because hes a career loser, but yet hes the best QB we have on our roster at this current time, but we can win with JP, who is light years behind Holcomb?


Releasing the best player on our team also makes perfect sense.(Eric Moulds)


You make no ****ing sense ICE.


I'd take TD over ICE any day.

[ScottLawrence]

Really? Last I checked Holcomb is a career loser whereas JP really hasn't started yet. And also, when has holcomb hit a ball over 35 yards that wasn't picked off or just flat looked like crap?

Holcomb can't win, period. He isn't the QB that will get it done for us. Drop the holcomb love.


When has JP sustainted drives on offense?

Outside of the long ball, when has JP looked accurate?


Drop the love for Losman until he actually shows he can play in this league.

[The_Philster]

hes the best QB we have on our roster at this current time:spit:

[ScottLawrence]

:spit:


Of course thats funny to you, and probably the entire Billszone board.

Half the people here belong to the JPD, because he was a first round pick, and outside of a couple quarters(1st quarter of Miami, 1st quarter of Houston), hes fallen straight on his ass in the NFL.

[The_Philster]

You left out the KC game..he's shown enough flashes to convince a good chunk of us that he's the real deal......those of us that don't seem to have some personal vendetta against the guy, that is.

[ICE74129]

Of course thats funny to you, and probably the entire Billszone board.

Half the people here belong to the JPD, because he was a first round pick, and outside of a couple quarters(1st quarter of Miami, 1st quarter of Houston), hes fallen straight on his ass in the NFL.

No we support him because we have a clue.

[ICE74129]

You left out the KC game..he's shown enough flashes to convince a good chunk of us that he's the real deal......those of us that don't seem to have some personal vendetta against the guy, that is.

And speaking of, Didn't he play pretty well against the #2 team in the NFC? I thought he did. What about the no huddle? He moved the ball damn well. I, like Jim Kelly, don't understand why they went away from it when he was moving the ball well. And morons ignore the fact that the int in the 2 min drill was mostly due to the WR falling down. But hey, let the stupid and the holcombites think what they want.

[lunatic_bills_fan]

Say what you want about the system. It may of very well sucked. But anyone watching seen he had an EXTREMELY hard time making some very simple throws. His total lack of throwing capability worries me the most.

[ScottLawrence]

And speaking of, Didn't he play pretty well against the #2 team in the NFC? I thought he did. What about the no huddle? He moved the ball damn well. I, like Jim Kelly, don't understand why they went away from it when he was moving the ball well. And morons ignore the fact that the int in the 2 min drill was mostly due to the WR falling down. But hey, let the stupid and the holcombites think what they want.



Pretty good?

Yea, he lead us to 9 points.

16/29 197 yards, 1 INT.


I'd say thats an average to below average game.


And that INT was totally on JP, he was going to that WR before he even took the snap, as the reciever wasn't even open.


Im no Holcombite, I just hate the idea of handing the job over to JP, because hes young, and talented, plus the fact that a majority of the team have no confidence in him whatsoever.

[ICE74129]

Say what you want about the system. It may of very well sucked. But anyone watching seen he had an EXTREMELY hard time making some very simple throws. His total lack of throwing capability worries me the most.

when a QB doesn't set his feet, Step into his throw or shortens his throwing motion, the balls he tosses are going to be off target. What causes those 3 things? Getting hit alot and no faith in his OL.

[HHURRICANE]

No we support him because we have a clue.

I like your post. Let's give Justasportsfan, Meathead and Scottlawrence some facts:

1) Our OL sucked. Probably one of the worst in the league. Our offensive scheme never utilized JP's speed. Rollouts, bootlegs. It was a joke.

2) Holcomb is very good at the 5 yard dump off pass. JP so far is not. JP has the deep ball, Holcomb doesn't. When we needed a 9 yarder for 1st down, Holcomb would throw a very good 6 yard pass. As in golf, you can't teach power but you can teach finesse. Holcomb will never be able to throw a deep ball but JP can learn to throw the 5 yard dump off.

3) Neither QB was going to do well with MM as the coach. With that said Losman should have played every game possible. So many people, including Meathead, wanted Holcomb in after the way we started. It was obvious to alot of us that we sucked and this was the year to take our lumps. I know hind sight is 20/20 but let the kid play so we know what we got. If alot of you were running San Diego, Brees would have never had his shot. PATIENCE.

4) If you really watched the games Losman did not suck. He looked like a rookie taking his licks. Even Eli Manning is still developing. PATIENCE. Starting Holcomb is a waste of time unless we hit the jackpot on talent in the off season and we can run for 200+ yards a game. Than dink and dunk will work with Holcomb. But if we get down by 2 scores I'll take my chances with Losman.

[ScottLawrence]

when a QB doesn't set his feet, Step into his throw or shortens his throwing motion, the balls he tosses are going to be off target. What causes those 3 things? Getting hit alot and no faith in his OL.

The offensive line was not a very good, but JP had a tendency of holding the ball too long, and it was obvious when Holcomb was starting.

[HHURRICANE]

The offensive line was not a very good, but JP had a tendency of holding the ball too long, and it was obvious when Holcomb was starting.

Uhh, JP got rid of alot of the bad habits when he came in at KC. He wasn't doing the double pad and his passing looked alot better. He also had much better control of the offense.

[ScottLawrence]

I like your post. Let's give Justasportsfan, Meathead and Scottlawrence some facts:

1) Our OL sucked. Probably one of the worst in the league. Our offensive scheme never utilized JP's speed. Rollouts, bootlegs. It was a joke.

2) Holcomb is very good at the 5 yard dump off pass. JP so far is not. JP has the deep ball, Holcomb doesn't. When we needed a 9 yarder for 1st down, Holcomb would throw a very good 6 yard pass. As in golf, you can't teach power but you can teach finesse. Holcomb will never be able to throw a deep ball but JP can learn to throw the 5 yard dump off.

3) Neither QB was going to do well with MM as the coach. With that said Losman should have played every game possible. So many people, including Meathead, wanted Holcomb in after the way we started. It was obvious to alot of us that we sucked and this was the year to take our lumps. I know hind sight is 20/20 but let the kid play so we know what we got. If alot of you were running San Diego, Brees would have never had his shot. PATIENCE.

4) If you really watched the games Losman did not suck. He looked like a rookie taking his licks. Even Eli Manning is still developing. PATIENCE. Starting Holcomb is a waste of time unless we hit the jackpot on talent in the off season and we can run for 200+ yards a game. Than dink and dunk will work with Holcomb. But if we get down by 2 scores I'll take my chances with Losman.


Starting the best quarterback is the best thing to do for the orginization, and the football team.

Whomever it is, as long as the best players are on the field.

Holcombs still better then Losman AS OF RIGHT NOW, those who can't see that are lieing to themselves.

And thats been my point since the offseason has started.

ICE doesn't seem to get that.

Im not Holcombite, or Losman hater, im a BILLS fan.

[The_Philster]

Uhh, JP got rid of alot of the bad habits when he came in at KC. He wasn't doing the double pad and his passing looked alot better. He also had much better control of the offense.
:cynic: don't cloud the issue with facts

Holcombs still better then Losman AS OF RIGHT NOW, those who can't see that are lieing to themselves.as of right now would be judging by when they last played...JP wasn't spectacular in his last action but he wasn't putrid...Holcomb on the other hand..

[dolphinssuck]

I think with JPs youth and being able to throw a accurate pass and scramble is our best chance to win. Starting Holcomb will do nothing but put JPs growth in neutral.Holcomb may be alittle better now but IMO still starting JP will be best in the long run because IMO hes got alot more up side than Holcomb does. The problems last year have already been mentioned in this thread with the O line not protecting either of the QBs but personally Id like to see JP in there.

[ICE74129]

H, No what the morons that support Holcomb can't understand is this....It isn't 'is he better' It's 'Is he better ENOUGH'

Is he better ENOUGH to get you to the superbowl? No.

Is he better enough to get you to the playoffs? No. Cleveland got to the playoffs that year due to a combo at QB, not just holcomb.

Is he better enough that you build your franchise around so you can really start competing for the AFCE And the AFC titles by 07? No.

Is he better enough to keep JP on the bench and not let him develop? NO! he is not!

Again please define 'better'. The only edge holcomb has is hitting 30 dump off passes per game. He cant throw the 15 or 20 yard outs or ins. He can't hit the deep ball. I created a thread proving holcomb is a career loser. He has had 10 years and still can't get it done. He sat behind Manning for about 5 years. So sitting doesn't make you a great QB.

the morons that don't get it, and holcombites say 'Sit him until he is ready' Well sitting holcomb didn't get him ready did it? He still sucks. Had he actually played for 3 or so of that 5 years he sat behind manning, he might have become something.

I guess 'Better' is just in how it 'looks'. Holcomb is 3-4 as a starter in Buffalo and has a career losing record. He is a 10 year vet and plays like a first year starter other than 3-5 yard dumpoff passes. 'Better' is the ability to run 6 min drives that take up 12 plays but net ZERO points. 'Better' is dumping the ball off to Moulds between the 20s just to shut him up, but again NO Touchdowns.

I will say this again, There is no issue that JP has, on the field or in the locker room, that EXPERIENCE won't fix. When a moron or holcombite throws up any arguement to not have JP start this year, it can be negated by saying the words, 'That can be fixed by playing and gaining experience'.

What is holcombs excuse after 10 years?

[Billsrock4life]

i think we can win now with JP if we upgrade r OL n DL

[ICE74129]

i think we can win now with JP if we upgrade r OL n DL

Exactly

[billsfan0404]

JP gives us more risk-reward, we know what KH will get us...mediocrity...again.
Holcomb came here to provide veteran experience and push JP, not drag him along behind. KH is a backup, always has been, how long does it take to get that? If JP starts all 16 games this year we don't know what we'll get, we could get the first pick next year or we could end up in the playoffs. KH has shown he is not a quality QB.
Ok, I'm done.

[Night Train]

KH has shown he is a quality BACKUP, period. That's why he was signed. He had 12 career starts at age 32 for a reason. Limited ability.

[Tatonka]

we can win with JP.

:up:

[ICE74129]

we can win with JP.

:up:

Hell yea buddy

[MDFINFAN]

i think we can win now with JP if we upgrade r OL n DL

I'd have to agree with this, a lot of his problems came when rushed...but isn't most QB's in the NFL..look at B. Farve this past year..no time, not the crazy numbers.

[HHURRICANE]

I'd have to agree with this, a lot of his problems came when rushed...but isn't most QB's in the NFL..look at B. Farve this past year..no time, not the crazy numbers.

Even though your a fin fan you usually make good points!

[TigerJ]

I think the Bills can win with JP now (next season) but not if they are depending on him to make plays in the absence of solid offensive players around him. He's going to need support in addition to solid coaching.

[ScottLawrence]

:cynic: don't cloud the issue with facts
as of right now would be judging by when they last played...JP wasn't spectacular in his last action but he wasn't putrid...Holcomb on the other hand..


Your really reach there.

JP was horrible in his last start before he was supposevly "injuried".


10/27 181 yards, 1 TD, 3 INT.

The only TD we scored, Josh Reed broke around 3 Tackles to get into the endzone.

[The_Philster]

I'd have to look at the game tape again...stats tell me nothing

[ICE74129]

Damn even the dumbest person in the world can figure out why JP had a 1 td 3 int game. It's the first time he ever ran into a Bill Bellechick defense. I mean BB defenses haven't ever made all pro QB's look that bad huh?

I love how the dorks keep digging their own hole deeper and deeper.

[ScottLawrence]

H, No what the morons that support Holcomb can't understand is this....It isn't 'is he better' It's 'Is he better ENOUGH'

Is he better ENOUGH to get you to the superbowl? No.

Is he better enough to get you to the playoffs? No. Cleveland got to the playoffs that year due to a combo at QB, not just holcomb.

Is he better enough that you build your franchise around so you can really start competing for the AFCE And the AFC titles by 07? No.

Is he better enough to keep JP on the bench and not let him develop? NO! he is not!

Again please define 'better'. The only edge holcomb has is hitting 30 dump off passes per game. He cant throw the 15 or 20 yard outs or ins. He can't hit the deep ball. I created a thread proving holcomb is a career loser. He has had 10 years and still can't get it done. He sat behind Manning for about 5 years. So sitting doesn't make you a great QB.

the morons that don't get it, and holcombites say 'Sit him until he is ready' Well sitting holcomb didn't get him ready did it? He still sucks. Had he actually played for 3 or so of that 5 years he sat behind manning, he might have become something.

I guess 'Better' is just in how it 'looks'. Holcomb is 3-4 as a starter in Buffalo and has a career losing record. He is a 10 year vet and plays like a first year starter other than 3-5 yard dumpoff passes. 'Better' is the ability to run 6 min drives that take up 12 plays but net ZERO points. 'Better' is dumping the ball off to Moulds between the 20s just to shut him up, but again NO Touchdowns.

I will say this again, There is no issue that JP has, on the field or in the locker room, that EXPERIENCE won't fix. When a moron or holcombite throws up any arguement to not have JP start this year, it can be negated by saying the words, 'That can be fixed by playing and gaining experience'.

What is holcombs excuse after 10 years?

bet·ter 1 Pronunciation (btr)
adj. Comparative of good.
1. Greater in excellence or higher in quality.
2. More useful, suitable, or desirable: found a better way to go; a suit with a better fit than that one.
3. More highly skilled or adept: I am better at math than English.
4. Greater or larger: argued for the better part of an hour.
5. More advantageous or favorable; improved: a better chance of success.
6. Healthier or more fit than before: The patient is better today.

Is he good enough to get you to the playoffs? I think so.

Is he good enough to keep JP on the bench? As of right now, DEFINITLY.

Is he good enough to get to the Superbowl? Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl, Jake Delhomme got to a Superbowl, as did Drew Bledsoe.


So im a moron for suggesting the best quarterback should start next year?

I guess Marv Levy, and Dick Jauron are morons as well.

[ScottLawrence]

Damn even the dumbest person in the world can figure out why JP had a 1 td 3 int game. It's the first time he ever ran into a Bill Bellechick defense. I mean BB defenses haven't ever made all pro QB's look that bad huh?

I love how the dorks keep digging their own hole deeper and deeper.


Yea your right.


Give JP a pass on this game, he played the Bill Bellicheck, and the New England Patriots.:crap:


Just give JP a pass on every game hes sucked in, right ICE?


And I look like a dork, keep sending the excuses for your golden boy JP.

[ICE74129]

bet·ter 1 Pronunciation (btr)
adj. Comparative of good.
1. Greater in excellence or higher in quality.
2. More useful, suitable, or desirable: found a better way to go; a suit with a better fit than that one.
3. More highly skilled or adept: I am better at math than English.
4. Greater or larger: argued for the better part of an hour.
5. More advantageous or favorable; improved: a better chance of success.
6. Healthier or more fit than before: The patient is better today.

Is he good enough to get you to the playoffs? I think so.

Is he good enough to keep JP on the bench? As of right now, DEFINITLY.

Is he good enough to get to the Superbowl? Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl, Jake Delhomme got to a Superbowl, as did Drew Bledsoe.


See stupidity at its finest folks. Your boy isn't starting this year. Deal with it. JP will start, they will let him develop because DJ and Marv get it. And No, Holcomb can't keep JP on the bench and never has been able too. he is a career loser playing like a first year QB. Dinking and dunking doesn't impress marv nor ralph wilson. Scoring and slinging the football does.


So im a moron for suggesting the best quarterback should start next year?

I guess Marv Levy, and Dick Jauron are morons as well.

No you are just a moron. Holcomb can't keep JP on the bench. Only the weakest man to ever coach was able to do that. Not holcombs play.

[ICE74129]

Yea your right.


Give JP a pass on this game, he played the Bill Bellicheck, and the New England Patriots.:crap:


Just give JP a pass on every game hes sucked in, right ICE?


And I look like a dork, keep sending the excuses for your golden boy JP.

You are too stupid to reply to any longer.

[ScottLawrence]

You are too stupid to reply to any longer.


Because your running out of excuses.

I'll take MM over you anyday, MM wouldn't be dumb enough to make the same mistake twice and just hand JP the job in training camp as you suggest.

[The_Philster]

knock off the personal attacks

[ScottLawrence]

I'd have to look at the game tape again...stats tell me nothing


He looked worse in the actual game then his stats indicate.


It was a pretty awful performance.

[justasportsfan]

I like your post. Let's give Justasportsfan, Meathead and Scottlawrence some facts:

1) Our OL sucked. Probably one of the worst in the league. Our offensive scheme never utilized JP's speed. Rollouts, bootlegs. It was a joke.

2) Holcomb is very good at the 5 yard dump off pass. JP so far is not. JP has the deep ball, Holcomb doesn't. When we needed a 9 yarder for 1st down, Holcomb would throw a very good 6 yard pass. As in golf, you can't teach power but you can teach finesse. Holcomb will never be able to throw a deep ball but JP can learn to throw the 5 yard dump off.

3) Neither QB was going to do well with MM as the coach. With that said Losman should have played every game possible. So many people, including Meathead, wanted Holcomb in after the way we started. It was obvious to alot of us that we sucked and this was the year to take our lumps. I know hind sight is 20/20 but let the kid play so we know what we got. If alot of you were running San Diego, Brees would have never had his shot. PATIENCE.

4) If you really watched the games Losman did not suck. He looked like a rookie taking his licks. Even Eli Manning is still developing. PATIENCE. Starting Holcomb is a waste of time unless we hit the jackpot on talent in the off season and we can run for 200+ yards a game. Than dink and dunk will work with Holcomb. But if we get down by 2 scores I'll take my chances with Losman.


Let me give you some facts. I have always supported the best players on the team. Any player that makes the team better is whom I would rather have in there. including JP. How stupid can you guys seriously be? Can I dumb that any further for you guys? I was all for JP at the very start of the season, ask OP. I still think he will be a good qb when he's ready.

All the excuses you just rambled on applies to KH as well. The OL sucked, MM sucked, balh, blah blah. Guess what , those excuses should be applied to KH.

I am not a KH fan at all but if the guy played better than JP then too bad that you'd rather cheer on ONE player over the entire team.

You cannot compare Eli Manning to JP because the Giants were in a rebuild mode with a new coach. The bills were suppose to win now. If the bills go into this season developing players then by all means start JP. If the team goes in trying to win now, you put in the best players. Even if it meant putting in Moorman as qb if he was the best qb we have. My english is simple enough. Please, ask a 10 yr. old if you cannot understand what I am trying to say.

[ScottLawrence]

Let me give you some facts. I have always supported the best players on the team. Any player that makes the team better is whom I would rather have in there. including JP. How stupid can you guys seriously be? Can I dumb that any further for you guys? I was all for JP at the very start of the season, ask OP. I still think he will be a good qb when he's ready.

All the excuses you just rambled on applies to KH as well. The OL sucked, MM sucked, balh, blah blah. Guess what , those excuses should be applied to KH.

I am not a KH fan at all but if the guy played better than JP then too bad that you'd rather cheer on ONE player over the entire team.

You cannot compare Eli Manning to JP because the Giants were in a rebuild mode with a new coach. The bills were suppose to win now. If the bills go into this season developing players then by all means start JP. If the team goes in trying to win now, you put in the best players. Even if it meant putting in Moorman as qb if he was the best qb we have. My english is simple enough. Please, ask a 10 yr. old if you cannot understand what I am trying to say.


Shutup Holcombite.

Its about the future, who cares about now, the FUTURE is whats important, stupid Holcombite.

[justasportsfan]

Shutup Holcombite.

Its about the future, who cares about now, the FUTURE is whats important, stupid Holcombite. I;d rather be a Holcombite than a "coach"

[ICE74129]

You're both ******s so don't fight over your titles. here is the most over looked FACT out there....we weren't built to win now and still aren't. JP starts.

[justasportsfan]

You're both ******s so don't fight over your titles. here is the most over looked FACT out there....we weren't built to win now and still aren't. JP starts.

Marv is the real coach and so is Jauron. Not you. What they say goes. Not you. That's a fact . The sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be. Deal with it Mr. 3rd grade OC. (puhlease)

[ICE74129]

Marv is the real coach and so is Jauron. Not you. What they say goes. Not you. That's a fact . The sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be. Deal with it Mr. 3rd grade OC. (puhlease)

And you will realise really quick that JP is going to be the starter. It has already been laid out for you, but you fail to accept it.

[Bert102176]

if we can get D'Brick in the draft I think JP will do very well but we need OL here and not just another teams reject on the OL, like Bennie Anderson look at all the penelties he caused this year, shows ya why Baltimore never resigned him, plus we need to upgrade over Trey Teague which in my opinion is too small and sucks as an OL

[Bert102176]

with our 1st pick I want D'Brick and if he isn't there I want Ngata which I feel both the OT and DT are major needs along with a CB to replace Nate which is as good as gone.

[justasportsfan]

And you will realise really quick that JP is going to be the starter. It has already been laid out for you, but you fail to accept it. If the real coaches think he should start than I'm all for it. DUH!

It'll have to come from them though and not a wannabe coach who thinks that coaching 3rd graders makes them a bonafide football expert and yet can't comprehend simple english and can't post maturely without making personal attacks.

You're not a real coach and never will be.It's been laid out for you. Accept it.

[Devin]

I heart unicorns.

[feelthepain]

If the real coaches think he should start than I'm all for it. DUH!

It'll have to come from them though and not a wannabe coach who thinks that coaching 3rd graders makes them a bonafide football expert and yet can't comprehend simple english and can't post maturely without making personal attacks.

You're not a real coach and never will be.It's been laid out for you. Accept it.

Gee Nancy, everyone loves you!! I see your lack of "knowledge" is really showing. I guess I'm not the only one who thinks you're dumb as a box of rocks, yet you insist on forcing your opinion on those who don't give a damn what you think!! Seems to be a pattern with you.

[HHURRICANE]

All the excuses you just rambled on applies to KH as well. The OL sucked, MM sucked, balh, blah blah. Guess what , those excuses should be applied to KH.

I am not a KH fan at all but if the guy played better than JP then too bad that you'd rather cheer on ONE player over the entire team.

You cannot compare Eli Manning to JP because the Giants were in a rebuild mode with a new coach. The bills were suppose to win now. If the bills go into this season developing players then by all means start JP. If the team goes in trying to win now, you put in the best players. Even if it meant putting in Moorman as qb if he was the best qb we have. My english is simple enough. Please, ask a 10 yr. old if you cannot understand what I am trying to say.

Are you kidding me? If you're wrong , you're wrong. We didn't "win now" and the Giants were smart enough to sacrifice the '04 season so they could make a run in '05 and beyond. You were obviously wrong this past season.

Are you going to argue that JP playing every game this past season would have helped develop him and answer other questions about his future here.

Get off you high horse and stop pouting like a 10 year old!!

[justasportsfan]

Gee Nancy, everyone loves you!! I see your lack of "knowledge" is really showing. I guess I'm not the only one who thinks you're dumb as a box of rocks, yet you insist on forcing your opinion on those who don't give a damn what you think!! Seems to be a pattern with you.


Haha! I'd be insulted if you ever agreed with me. Ice seems to think JP is the answer this early in his carreer and you don't think much of JP. Make up your mind you wuss.

Go ahead and agree with ICE that JP is the answer. Oh wait, you're too stupid to even realize what you are agreeing to. You're still the joke of FH and BZ. No matter where you post, you'll always be the board's ret@rd whether it be a fin or bills mb.

[justasportsfan]

Are you kidding me? If you're wrong , you're wrong. We didn't "win now" and the Giants were smart enough to sacrifice the '04 season so they could make a run in '05 and beyond. You were obviously wrong this past season.

Are you going to argue that JP playing every game this past season would have helped develop him and answer other questions about his future here.

Get off you high horse and stop pouting like a 10 year old!!where was I wrong?Was I wrong in thinking that the season was for developing JP or that we were playoff bound?


I even went on to make a bet with feelthepain (that he so easily ran away from) that Jp would have better nos. than Feely ,who was their starter then.

I also challenged him that the bills would have a better record than the fins when JP was annointed the starter (which he chickened out like the barbie that he is). So tell me, how am I a JP hater? So in case you missed it, I had JP pegged as someone who was ready. You are right, I WAS WRONG in thinking JP was ready.

You cannot tell me that the bills didn't go into the season with playoffs in their mind. Coaches, players and fans. Yes, we were all wrong but that's because we all thought that JP was ready and that was the coaches fault, not his.He wasn't ready to lead a team into the playoffs. Is that the point you were trying to make?

No. Coughlin was criticized for tanking the season to get Eli ready. He had that in mind but the team didn't. The bills didn't think that way either.

Read my posts and you might understand what I'm tryin to say, If the season was meant to develop JP (like the giants) then there wouldn't have been a problem. The fans ,coaches and VETS didn't think that was the case. I have facts, you don't.


You should get off your pony and stop whining like a little girl.

[ScottLawrence]

You're both ******s so don't fight over your titles. here is the most over looked FACT out there....we weren't built to win now and still aren't. JP starts.


HUH?


This thread, created by you says "Who else here thinks we can win now with JP?"


So which is it?

[ScottLawrence]

where was I wrong?Was I wrong in thinking that the season was for developing JP or that we were playoff bound?


I even went on to make a bet with feelthepain (that he so easily ran away from) that Jp would have better nos. than Feely ,who was their starter then.

I also challenged him that the bills would have a better record than the fins when JP was annointed the starter (which he chickened out like the barbie that he is). So tell me, how am I a JP hater? So in case you missed it, I had JP pegged as someone who was ready. You are right, I WAS WRONG in thinking JP was ready.

You cannot tell me that the bills didn't go into the season with playoffs in their mind. Coaches, players and fans. Yes, we were all wrong but that's because we all thought that JP was ready and that was the coaches fault, not his.He wasn't ready to lead a team into the playoffs. Is that the point you were trying to make?

No. Coughlin was criticized for tanking the season to get Eli ready. He had that in mind but the team didn't. The bills didn't think that way either.

Read my posts and you might understand what I'm tryin to say, If the season was meant to develop JP then there wouldn't have been a problem. The fans ,coaches and VETS didn't think that was the case. I have facts, you don't.


You should get off your pony and stop whining like a little girl.


Exactly.

And it killed the coaching staff, the GM, and probably some veteran players on the team.


The plan should've been open competition in training camp for the job, which Holcomb would've clearly won, and play out the season to win games, and get into the playoffs.


You don't tank the season to develop ONE frigging player, who was no where near ready mentally to start the season for us.

[justasportsfan]

HUH?


This thread, created by you says "Who else here thinks we can win now with JP?"


So which is it? :snicker:

[HHURRICANE]

Yes, we were all wrong but that's because we all thought that JP was ready and that was the coaches fault, not his.He wasn't ready to lead a team into the playoffs. Is that the point you were trying to make?

These are your words. Now it's JP's fault?

The team sucked and thats not JP's fault. We weren't going anywhere had Holcomb played all season. That's mt point!!!

[ICE74129]

If the real coaches think he should start than I'm all for it. DUH!

It'll have to come from them though and not a wannabe coach who thinks that coaching 3rd graders makes them a bonafide football expert and yet can't comprehend simple english and can't post maturely without making personal attacks.

You're not a real coach and never will be.It's been laid out for you. Accept it.

Hey Tard, Go read that post again from 3rd grade through NAIA College ball. Hell you are such a dumb ass you don't understand NAIA is college ball? you don't understand words like 'from' and 'though'?

[The_Philster]

These are your words. Now it's JP's fault?

The team sucked and thats not JP's fault. We weren't going anywhere had Holcomb played all season. That's mt point!!!
Jim Kelly couldn't have led this team to the playoffs, IMO..the defense couldn't stop a Division III college team from running on them

[ScottLawrence]

These are your words. Now it's JP's fault?

The team sucked and thats not JP's fault. We weren't going anywhere had Holcomb played all season. That's mt point!!!


Well your points wrong.

The team didn't suck.

We may not have made playoffs, but we aren't 5-11 if Holcomb starts, we are probably more so 7-9, or 8-8 with the defense struggling to stop the run all year.


Its Donahoes fault for forcing Losman onto the coaching staff to be the starter, but JP was essentially the reason why this season was a failure.


He wasn't ready, and it showed.


JP got MM, TD(rightfully so), TC, and probably some veteran players fired because he sucked.

Those are the facts.

[The_Philster]

let's knock off the attacks..stick to football

[ICE74129]

Exactly.

And it killed the coaching staff, the GM, and probably some veteran players on the team.


The plan should've been open competition in training camp for the job, which Holcomb would've clearly won, and play out the season to win games, and get into the playoffs.


You don't tank the season to develop ONE frigging player, who was no where near ready mentally to start the season for us.

Ladies and gentlemen I give you the dumbest poster in history and his lastest post proves it.

[ICE74129]

Well your points wrong.

The team didn't suck.

We may not have made playoffs, but we aren't 5-11 if Holcomb starts, we are probably more so 7-9, or 8-8 with the defense struggling to stop the run all year.


Its Donahoes fault for forcing Losman onto the coaching staff to be the starter, but JP was essentially the reason why this season was a failure.


He wasn't ready, and it showed.


JP got MM, TD(rightfully so), TC, and probably some veteran players fired because he sucked.

Those are the facts.

Correction, THIS post was the dumbest in history.

[vicmantak]

Who else here thinks we can win now with JP?

Well, it seems that none is really convinced that we can surely win with JP...
I don't know but I don't mind if he is traded, released or whatever...

The only thing I know is that Holcomb is good enough to win with some significant improvements.

[tat2dmike77]

I don't think the play of losman cost anyone thier job.

I believe not making adjustments in close games coast people thier jobs. I believe that TD bargain shopping for players cost him his job. I believe that the veterans that will be let go are one of two things

1.) Old and past thier prime and can contribute little to the offense

2.) Overpaid and or a bust (see Mike Williams)

The play of JP didn't cost anyone thier job. Heck KH only won 3 games compared to JP winning 2. So how is KH any better.

Jp had more big plays then KH. Besides if KH was such a great QB and these vets railed around him then why didn't the team start winning? Instead they would play when they wanted to.

I'm not saying that JP is going to get the bills a super bowl trophy next season but i think he lead them to atleast 8-8.

[The_Philster]

Who else here thinks we can win now with JP?

Well, it seems that none is really convinced that we can surely win with JP...
I don't know but I don't mind if he is traded, released or whatever...

The only thing I know is that Holcomb is good enough to win with some significant improvements.As much as people said that Bledsoe needs a lot of help to win, Holcomb would need even more. JP being traded or released would be by far the most idiotic move we could make...he's shown flashes and has yet to get the chance to prove himself fully.

I don't know but I don't mind if he is traded, released or whatever...
I wonder how many Colts fans said that after Manning played only half a season...or Bengals fans after Palmer played only half a season.

[vicmantak]

As much as people said that Bledsoe needs a lot of help to win, Holcomb would need even more. JP being traded or released would be by far the most idiotic move we could make...he's shown flashes and has yet to get the chance to prove himself fully.
I wonder how many Colts fans said that after Manning played only half a season...or Bengals fans after Palmer played only half a season.
Sorry, it's completely true. By far, JP being traded or released would be one or the most idiotic moves in this moments.
Anyway, something tells me that the next Big Ben is coming and I love the idea to get someone like Jay Cutler whatever it takes.

[The_Philster]

thing about Big Ben is this...yeah, he had a fast start to his career...he went into a system where the team was predicated to running the ball with a strong O-line..and that running game and the strong defense carried that team...he didn't have to do much his first season. This year, he's been a bigger part of their success. But how do we know that someone like Belichek won't find a chink in his armor and shut him and that offense down early next year? Other teams will copy Belichek's method and Big Ben will be merely average. What I'm saying is this...a fast start to a carrer doesn't guarantee you long term success. Besides, I'll wager not a single person predicted Big Ben would succeed right away, anyway...the chances of a QB starting off that well aren't that good.

[feelthepain]

Haha! I'd be insulted if you ever agreed with me. Ice seems to think JP is the answer this early in his carreer and you don't think much of JP. Make up your mind you wuss.

Go ahead and agree with ICE that JP is the answer. Oh wait, you're too stupid to even realize what you are agreeing to. You're still the joke of FH and BZ. No matter where you post, you'll always be the board's ret@rd whether it be a fin or bills mb.

Ummm...you seem to be the one everyone hates and you do the same thing you always do, try and ignore the fact that everyone hates you! On here I should be hated, but it's obvious no one agrees with you because "you think" you know everything, but you know squat. Why don't you just stop posting. NO ONE GIVES A CRAP, WHAT YOU THINK!! Instead of just letting people have their own opinions you think it's your job to force your opinion on everyone else. Wrong move Nancy!! By the simple fact that this thread is now 5 pages long and "you're" the only one listening to "you" should give you a clue no one cares ,but you keep trying to force your opinion...keep it up!! It just proves you're on your own planet!

[Philagape]

Well your points wrong.

The team didn't suck.

We may not have made playoffs, but we aren't 5-11 if Holcomb starts, we are probably more so 7-9, or 8-8 with the defense struggling to stop the run all year.


Its Donahoes fault for forcing Losman onto the coaching staff to be the starter, but JP was essentially the reason why this season was a failure.


He wasn't ready, and it showed.


JP got MM, TD(rightfully so), TC, and probably some veteran players fired because he sucked.

Those are the facts.

There isn't one fact in that post. Not one. All of it is just overwhelming anti-JP bias. That's the only explanation for such an incredibly mindless post, because no objective observer could possibly come to such obviously wrong conclusions.

[gr8slayer]

I know we can win with JP. The guy is the real deal, he just needs some time to get it going. We saw sparks of greatness in the KC game. We at least know he has alittle bit of "it"

[vicmantak]

thing about Big Ben is this...yeah, he had a fast start to his career...he went into a system where the team was predicated to running the ball with a strong O-line..and that running game and the strong defense carried that team...he didn't have to do much his first season. This year, he's been a bigger part of their success. But how do we know that someone like Belichek won't find a chink in his armor and shut him and that offense down early next year? Other teams will copy Belichek's method and Big Ben will be merely average. What I'm saying is this...a fast start to a carrer doesn't guarantee you long term success. Besides, I'll wager not a single person predicted Big Ben would succeed right away, anyway...the chances of a QB starting off that well aren't that good.
I agree that chances to get a QB like Big Ben are remote and that coaches like Bellichick can make any player look merely average but... are these factors good enough reasons to stop addressing promising prospects at that key-position?

Time is telling us that adding a reliable FA veteran QB to back up a promising talent was not better than sticking with a more reliable veteran QB and keep developing your future QB.

The results are very palpable... and curiosly the only fact we are facing now is a more "tested" back up QB + a still unknown QB "on development" looking for more time-experience.

In other words, how would you feel in a "near" future if you lost a great chance to add a playmaker like Jay Cutler? and even more, how would you feel if he is drafted by our archrival Miami?

I don't know but it seems that Dolphins are really near to get someone who has all the makeup to succeed at the next level... just as Pittsburgh did it two years ago...

[The_Philster]

In other words, how would you feel in a "near" future if you lost a great chance to add a playmaker like Jay Cutler? and even more, how would you feel if he is drafted by our archrival Miami?
How would you feel if we drafted Cutler (who didn't look all that great in the Senior Bowl, anyway) and we had to wait a couple of years for him to develop? Meanwhile, we cut loose JP (hurting our chance to pick up free agents because of dead cap space)...he gets picked by, say Miami, and proceeds to continue to improve and comes back to haunt us? It goes both ways and I'm reminded of the old saying A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. We already have someone who hasd a good chance of taking us to the promised land and to give him up for someone who might've looked a little better on a lower level is foolhardy at best.

[vicmantak]

Well said! A bird in the hand (J.P.) is worth 2 in the bush (Cutler or inclusive Leinhart).

On the other hand, I will commit suicide if J.P. is released by the Bills and he ends doing a great job in Miami!

In summary, it's wise start thinking that Holcomb is the man to stick with until J.P. win the competition. In other words, cross fingers to see Bills winning with either Holcomb, J.P. or both!

[TacklingDummy]

JP sucks. And that's a fact. If he didn't suck so bad he would have never of been benched, TWICE!!!

[TacklingDummy]

And until JP proves otherwise, he still sucks.

[TacklingDummy]

4) If you really watched the games Losman did not suck.

No, he did suck.

Atl. 10 of 23, 75 yards, 0 TDs 1 INT

NO, 7 of 15, 75 yards, 0 TDs 1 INT

Misery loves company.

[X-Era]

As much as people said that Bledsoe needs a lot of help to win, Holcomb would need even more. JP being traded or released would be by far the most idiotic move we could make...he's shown flashes and has yet to get the chance to prove himself fully.
I wonder how many Colts fans said that after Manning played only half a season...or Bengals fans after Palmer played only half a season.

Exactly, Bledsoe has more talent in his statue-esque pinky toe than Hole-Pelt has in his whole damn body.

The same team that stunk under Bledsoe, VanPelt, Collins, Johnson now supposedly becomes good enough under Holcomb?

LOL, thats hillarious.

I said before the season started that Holcomb buys you maybe 1 game over JP and that the team would end up 6 and 10 rather than 5 and 11, so what the hell is the point in starting Holcomb. Well I gave Holcomb one more win than he was really worth.

Truth is Holcomb is a backup plain and simple. JP has more talent than Holcomb, he doesnt have experience. Theres only one way to get it.

This is the dumbest arguement ever. It was one thing when it was an arguement between Johnson porcelain boy who had talent, and Flutie who made plays but couldnt throw over the middle or long. In that case, there was tangible chinks in both armors. Holcomb has no armor, he stinks. JP has nothing but upside and showed more in his first starting year than RJ ever did.

Its a non issue and im not going to try to teach the untrainable.

[ddaryl]

JP or Bust

we drafted him, we are committed to him, and not getting him into games will only continue to keep the Bills down because KH is only going to hide our problems and NEVER win us a championship.

JP has the arm and the ability to make some things happen with his feet. Give him an OL and time... if he sucks it up in 2006 then we get another top 10 draft pick next year and we can select another QB to try and groom.

KH = FLutie he'll be good enough to hide those problems on a team, but he'll never guide a team to a championship and win it, so what's the point.

I'll stick with JP even if that ends up meaning 2-14. I'd much rather gamble then play it conservative.

[ICE74129]

JP or Bust

we drafted him, we are committed to him, and not getting him into games will only continue to keep the Bills down because KH is only going to hide our problems and NEVER win us a championship.

JP has the arm and the ability to make some things happen with his feet. Give him an OL and time... if he sucks it up in 2006 then we get another top 10 draft pick next year and we can select another QB to try and groom.

KH = FLutie he'll be good enough to hide those problems on a team, but he'll never guide a team to a championship and win it, so what's the point.

I'll stick with JP even if that ends up meaning 2-14. I'd much rather gamble then play it conservative.

Amen Brother

[X-Era]

No, he did suck.

Atl. 10 of 23, 75 yards, 0 TDs 1 INT

NO, 7 of 15, 75 yards, 0 TDs 1 INT

Misery loves company.

Dont whip out stats. You will lose.

How many games did Hole-Pelt throw 3 TD's? How many games did he throw as many int's as TD's, or how about 1 more TD than int's?

I got an even better one, how many games did Hole-Pelt throw 2 TD's in the 1st half?

NOW, How many games did JP throw throw 3 TD's? and that was in one half. How about throwing 2 against KC?

Holcomb did NOTHING this year thats anything more than less than average.

[justasportsfan]

These are your words. Now it's JP's fault?

The team sucked and thats not JP's fault. We weren't going anywhere had Holcomb played all season. That's mt point!!! try reading it again and tell me where I said it's JP's fault.

[TacklingDummy]

Dont whip out stats. You will lose.




Dude, don't even try to sugar coat JPs stats. Becasuse you will look like a fool.

How many times did KH throw for under a 100 yards?

How many TDs did Willis have when JP started comapred to KH?

How many more yards did Willis ave. with JP at QB?

How many more yards did Willis have with KH art QB?

Who got sacked more?

Who led the offense to more touchdowns?

Who threw for more yards?

Who threw for more TDs?

Who ran for more TDs?

What was the Bills record when either QB started?

How many 300 yard passing games did J have last year?

Who had the better QB rating?

Need I go on?

How many times did JP just throw INT in a game and have 0 TDs?

YOU WILL LOSE BIG TIME.

[justasportsfan]

Ummm...you seem to be the one everyone hates and you do the same thing you always do, try and ignore the fact that everyone hates you! On here I should be hated, but it's obvious no one agrees with you because "you think" you know everything, but you know squat. Why don't you just stop posting. NO ONE GIVES A CRAP, WHAT YOU THINK!! Instead of just letting people have their own opinions you think it's your job to force your opinion on everyone else. Wrong move Nancy!! By the simple fact that this thread is now 5 pages long and "you're" the only one listening to "you" should give you a clue no one cares ,but you keep trying to force your opinion...keep it up!! It just proves you're on your own planet!Everyone hates me? I've gotten pos. rep by arguing with JP groupies who like players over the entire team.

No one gives a crap about what I think? then why do you and those lovers keep responding? Man, you're stupid.

You're hated by the better finfan posters here "on a bills board" and a joke at FH , DUH!!!

Some people here agree with me. Not only are you a wussy, you're dumb too.

[Bill Cody]

Ummm...you seem to be the one everyone hates and you do the same thing you always do, try and ignore the fact that everyone hates you! On here I should be hated, but it's obvious no one agrees with you because "you think" you know everything, but you know squat. Why don't you just stop posting. NO ONE GIVES A CRAP, WHAT YOU THINK!! Instead of just letting people have their own opinions you think it's your job to force your opinion on everyone else. Wrong move Nancy!! By the simple fact that this thread is now 5 pages long and "you're" the only one listening to "you" should give you a clue no one cares ,but you keep trying to force your opinion...keep it up!! It just proves you're on your own planet!

LOL. Just because Justa owns you is no reason to randomly lash out. You're already the joke of this board- no need to add to it. Unless you want to of course- it is funny to read.

[ICE74129]

LOL. Just because Justa owns you is no reason to randomly lash out. You're already the joke of this board- no need to add to it. Unless you want to of course- it is funny to read.

Justa is a fool and is making himself more of one left and right. We know you are a drewaphile so hammering on JP is your M.O. Justa is just stupid.

And for those complaining....please understand what a real personal attack is? Moron, Stupid, ****** etc isn't personal a personal attack...believe me. :lol:

[justasportsfan]

Justa is a fool and is making himself more of one left and right. We know you are a drewaphile so hammering on JP is your M.O. Justa is just stupid.

And for those complaining....please understand what a real personal attack is? Moron, Stupid, ****** etc isn't personal a personal attack...believe me. :lol:


Haha! Sure, whatever you say, fake coach. You obviously don't have enough brain cells to realize that whether you think it's a personal attack or not, it's against TOS. If you couldn't even realize that, don't go telling people you're a coach. Coaches can read. You can't. DUH!!!!

You're not a real coach and will NEVER be one. Accept it.

"I'm a coach, you better listen to me. I know more than Marv and Jauron and all I do is post on a message board." :crazy:

[Bill Cody]

Justa is a fool and is making himself more of one left and right. We know you are a drewaphile so hammering on JP is your M.O. Justa is just stupid.

And for those complaining....please understand what a real personal attack is? Moron, Stupid, ****** etc isn't personal a personal attack...believe me. :lol:

You need to re read the TOS. For example, if I were to call you a "know it all blowhard that cries like a girl whenever the Bills do something I don't agree with and posts more annoying threads than any 3 posters combined and in addition has a serious manlove for JP going" that would be true but it would be personal attack which a TOS violation so I wouldn't dream of saying it. :blowkiss:

[ICE74129]

You need to re read the TOS. For example, if I were to call you a "know it all blowhard that cries like a girl whenever the Bills do something I don't agree with and posts more annoying threads than any 3 posters combined and in addition has a serious manlove for JP going" that would be true but it would be personal attack which a TOS violation so I wouldn't dream of saying it. :blowkiss:

It's not a personal attack at all. Is crap spewing from the mouth of a drewaphile. And why are you here? Your lover is over on the Cowboys now. Go bother them

[mysticsoto]

Justa is a fool and is making himself more of one left and right. We know you are a drewaphile so hammering on JP is your M.O. Justa is just stupid.

And for those complaining....please understand what a real personal attack is? Moron, Stupid, ****** etc isn't personal a personal attack...believe me. :lol:

Well, personally, I consider those personal attacks...I don't know how they can't be? Moron, Stupid...those attack the poster. If you don't like what Justa has to say, talk about what he is saying - contentwise...not him.

Not that I want to get into this personal feud that seems to have developed between you, but I've met and hung with Justa and he's actually pretty cool.

As to our QB situation...which is what we should be talking about vs posters, I think KH has clearly shown that he does not have what it takes to take us to the promised land. Does JP have it? We don't know. He hasn't gotten a chance to show what he can or cannot do. Until then, I will favor JP b'cse the physical assets he brings to the game outweigh the assets KH brings to the game. JP needs to develop now mentally with game speed and experience and he cannot develop that by sitting on the bench. KH has had time to develop into a great QB and in > 10 yrs has not and will not. Period. End of argument for me.

[justasportsfan]

thanks, mystic.

We are all on the same side. Some people forget that. Some people get their panties all bunched up just because we have a difference of opinion.

[Bill Cody]

It's not a personal attack at all. Is crap spewing from the mouth of a drewaphile. And why are you here? Your lover is over on the Cowboys now. Go bother them

I disagree but I'll let the mods make the call. And I'll post where I want. You seem to have a control issue. They probably call you Ice because just reading JP's name or gazing at his flowing locks makes you have to run to throw an ice tray down your shorts. This may keep you up at night worrying but there are a lot of us that don't feel that way- it doesn't mean we don't support the kid or the team it just means we have doubts, some more than others. So keep throwing out the labels if it makes you feel better "coach" it makes for good comedy. Guys like Justa were here long before you and will be here long after you stop spamming these boards with your "think my way or else" posts.

[ScottLawrence]

There isn't one fact in that post. Not one. All of it is just overwhelming anti-JP bias. That's the only explanation for such an incredibly mindless post, because no objective observer could possibly come to such obviously wrong conclusions.


HA.

Everyone thing I wrote is true, stop the denial.

JP's terrible play in the beginning of the year got us in a deep hole, that Holcomb, and the pitiful defense couldn't get us out of.

[Jeff1220]

I dion't understand the blind loyalty (or hatred) so many fans have to a particular player, particularly at the QB position. It just baffles me. It always did, since the whole RJ vs. DF drama emerged, I never really understood it. Now we have JP vs KH, with some DB undertones thrown in. It's just madness, I say.
Here's my take on the QB sitch: I really do not want to see a player like Kelly Holcomb as the starting QB for this team, as I'd hope to have a QB that has a higher 'ceiling' (basically, to me, he's on the same level as a guy like Gus Frerotte) However, I think he was an incredible pick up as a 2nd string QB.
As for JP...who knows? I'm far from thinking that he is any sort of savior at this point and, mostly, he sucked last year but showed a few flashes of potential. I was definitely hoping he would've seen more gametime to give us and the team a better idea of what he really can/can't do. I hope he can turn out to be a good player for the Bills.
Option C QB: I am not opposed to bringing in a young/potential-type guy to compete with JP. In fact, I think this could be a best case scenario. If the Bills can find a relatively young, high-upside FA, or mid-round prospect to either push JP or actually show that he can get the job done himself, then I'm all for it.
My main point here is that I really don't care what happens at QB, as long as whatever happens turns out as the best decision for the Bills. And while we all spew out hatred at these players and at each others viewpoints, do any of us really know what will work out best? (okay, maybe Ingtar does). I want this team to win as much as anyone; let's hope Marv and Dick make the best choices for that to happen.