How much will the OL change this offseason...really?

[ICE74129]

A poster put up the list of FA Guards for this offseason (thanks BTW!) and I am not impressed. Not at all.

Fonoti (sp) was a guy that I was really high on coming out of college. Then he just crapped out...like a Mike williams. Other than him it's Steve Hutchenson. Watching NFLN last night with him and Alexander, I am betting there is a 90% chance he stays there. He helped build this seahawks team from crap, to superbowl participant. And I think the hawks will be good for the next few years to be honest. I think he stays.

I think the Bills are going to be hard pressed this offseason. Unless major cap moves are made we only have 6.5 mill to play with. 1 mill if we franchise and trade Nate.

Some realistic moves We should honestly look at....

Sit moulds down and tell him how it is. See if he will play 100% even if JP has bad games. No more locker room BS. If he does, restructure his deal. Take 3 mill off of his 6 mill base pay and give him an additional 2 year extention with lesser base salaries. (savings of 3 mill)

Have a heart to heart with Mike Williams. He must agree to a pay cut, maybe an additional year added on. Drop his base from 4 to 2 mill, But he has to stay here from March 1 through the rest off camp. He agrees to drop 30lbs and play LG. (Savings 2 mill)

Go to TKO, drop his base from 4.5 to 3.5 but add on an additional year or so. (Savings 1 mill). London Fletcher, drop him from 4-3 (Savings 1 mill). Cut Campbell (savings 1.3 mill)

That is an additional 8.3 mill in savings. We keep Moulds (again it is all about the attitude) and Try to get something out of Mike Williams (Full offseason at LG). We now have nearly 15 mill for FA. Tag Clements, we now have 9 mill. All we need now is DT, Center, TE. as pure needs. Use the rest to cut some dead weight and replace them.

I know it is a reach...but in reality there is only so many moves that can be made THIS offseason.

[ICE74129]

Now I will say there are other options. Start a Guard at LG That we take with the 8th pick in the 2nd round etc. But from a Free agent standpoint, I think we are kinda handcuffed.

[mysticsoto]

Now I will say there are other options. Start a Guard at LG That we take with the 8th pick in the 2nd round etc. But from a Free agent standpoint, I think we are kinda handcuffed.

No guard in the draft is worth the 8th pick, but I would be willing to bet we take one in the 2nd round. And I'm hoping it's Davin Joseph. I'm not really concerned with tackle. I think Gandy did decent and Jason Peters emerged. I'd like to see them switch positions though and see how they do. I am concerned on whether Preston is ready to take on Center duties. I think it was reported when we drafted him that he was a really smart guy. So hopefully, he's using this offseason knowing that Teague probably won't be resigned and that he can take the position if he is ready for it. Hopefully that means that he is using this offseason to really get into that position.

[Michael82]

IMO, I want 3 new interior linemen. But I think we'll get two, a new starting Center and Left Guard. Villarrial will end up staying because of him having experience with Jauron before.

[ICE74129]

No guard in the draft is worth the 8th pick, but I would be willing to bet we take one in the 2nd round. And I'm hoping it's Davin Joseph. I'm not really concerned with tackle. I think Gandy did decent and Jason Peters emerged. I'd like to see them switch positions though and see how they do. I am concerned on whether Preston is ready to take on Center duties. I think it was reported when we drafted him that he was a really smart guy. So hopefully, he's using this offseason knowing that Teague probably won't be resigned and that he can take the position if he is ready for it. Hopefully that means that he is using this offseason to really get into that position.

I do agree on Joseph. Seen the kid play for years! He rocked at the Sr. Bowl. I would love for him to be there with our 8th in the 2nd and we take him.

[eyedog]

Tatusi Lutui the guard from USC.

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

I think you'll see Preston at Center, and a new left guard and right tackle.
If we keep Williams, he'll take one of those two spots, so now we need one guy....and I bet we get the best available and move Williams to the need position.

Next years line is already shaping up like this.....Peters-Williams-Preston-Villariall-F/A.
There will be lots more linemen available after June 1 too.....
I don't see us getting a starting olineman in the draft.

[Night Train]

Max Jean Gilles of Georgia, Joseph of Oklahoma, Luiti of USC and Spencer of Pitt are all worthy of 2nd round status. Gilles may go higher.

Everyone acts like they know Preston but he's a complete mystery. He did start at Illinois but was rated a 6th-7th rounder coming out. We picked him in the 4th round. People had a huge problem with 1st rounder in Losman being handed the QB position but seem fine with a 2nd day nobody starting at Center. Got it.

He may be good eventually but don't pencil him in yet. Chris V could stick around but he's getting old and starting to break down physically. Anderson was just terrible. The Bills will determine if Peters can play LT or RT. Williams the heartless one can go steal someone elses dime.

Seems to me we need 3-4 new OL. Hope we get our thinking caps on early, starting March 3rd.

[ICE74129]

Joseph is the best guard coming out. As for as Center, We need to sign a vet. I like preston but he hasn't been good enough to take the job from Teague and that doesn't sit well with me. I also agree I am not that hyped about handing the job to a guy that was 6-7th round talent.

[mysticsoto]

I think you'll see Preston at Center, and a new left guard and right tackle.
If we keep Williams, he'll take one of those two spots, so now we need one guy....and I bet we get the best available and move Williams to the need position.

Next years line is already shaping up like this.....Peters-Williams-Preston-Villariall-F/A.
There will be lots more linemen available after June 1 too.....
I don't see us getting a starting olineman in the draft.

You're disgarding Gandy even though he played reasonably well??? At the worst, Gandy should play RT in your lineup above. Gandy also has Guard experience and is probably very valuable to McNally who likes to have versatile linemen. Don't forget that McNally exclaimed that out of all the linemen, Gandy was the quickest...even faster than Peters.

[ICE74129]

You're disgarding Gandy even though he played reasonably well??? At the worst, Gandy should play RT in your lineup above. Gandy also has Guard experience and is probably very valuable to McNally who likes to have versatile linemen. Don't forget that McNally exclaimed that out of all the linemen, Gandy was the quickest...even faster than Peters.

And he still gets beat by speed rushers. Look gandy is a stopgap until we get a franchise LT in here. And we need to do so in the next 2 years.

[patmoran2006]

Here are my opinions.. Just one persons- but mine nontheless

Ice- Your scenario sounds nice for NOW.. But if you go and restructure deals for Moulds, Wiliams, Spikes and Fletcher like you suggest, then you are creating a salary cap situation that in 2-3 years will look like the mess that John Butler left us with. I couldn't stand Donahoe, but he was BRILLIANT at getting out of cap jail and onto a level playing field (cap-wise)

* I agree about Preston. While Teague is almost certain to be gone, and Preston will be the favorite, I'm hardly ready to pencil him in as starter.

* Villarial will stay, especially with Jauron being the coach. I think his best days are behind him, he's a walking injury report at this stage. But in his case, we have to live with it.

* Gandy as I've said before is a Marcus Price type. I think he's a versatile backup but not a quality starter, ESPECIALLY a left tackle.

* With Williams you have to cut your losses and rid of him. After four years, if he doesn't have it now, he wont. He's expensive and a burden financially and an even burden on the field when he plays bad.

In general, I think Peters, Preston and Villarial stay and we need two new starters; one of which will probably have to come through the draft. personally, I'd love to get a stud RG in FA and move Peters to LT and draft a RT.

PS- I didnt even bother to mention Anderson- he is total garbage.

[patmoran2006]

oops.. meant "LG" in FA

[ICE74129]

Here are my opinions.. Just one persons- but mine nontheless

Ice- Your scenario sounds nice for NOW.. But if you go and restructure deals for Moulds, Wiliams, Spikes and Fletcher like you suggest, then you are creating a salary cap situation that in 2-3 years will look like the mess that John Butler left us with. I couldn't stand Donahoe, but he was BRILLIANT at getting out of cap jail and onto a level playing field (cap-wise)

* I agree about Preston. While Teague is almost certain to be gone, and Preston will be the favorite, I'm hardly ready to pencil him in as starter.

* Villarial will stay, especially with Jauron being the coach. I think his best days are behind him, he's a walking injury report at this stage. But in his case, we have to live with it.

* Gandy as I've said before is a Marcus Price type. I think he's a versatile backup but not a quality starter, ESPECIALLY a left tackle.

* With Williams you have to cut your losses and rid of him. After four years, if he doesn't have it now, he wont. He's expensive and a burden financially and an even burden on the field when he plays bad.

In general, I think Peters, Preston and Villarial stay and we need two new starters; one of which will probably have to come through the draft. personally, I'd love to get a stud RG in FA and move Peters to LT and draft a RT.

PS- I didnt even bother to mention Anderson- he is total garbage.

Preston will never be more than a backup at Guard and center. We need a vet center, a new LG and eventually a new LT. We can 'get by' with two changes on the OL And those being Center and LG. I am all for a veteran Center and a Draft pick at LG.

[Dr. Who]

Max Jean Gilles had a superior Senior Bowl week and almost certainly will go in the first round. If Clements is franchised and traded for a first, I would try to get Gilles. He is huge with athleticism and a toughness that is pretty much the opposite of MW.

[mysticsoto]

Max Jean Gilles had a superior Senior Bowl week and almost certainly will go in the first round. If Clements is franchised and traded for a first, I would try to get Gilles. He is huge with athleticism and a toughness that is pretty much the opposite of MW.

I think a 2nd rd draft pick should be the earliest we use for a Guard...one of the top 2 will be there by our 2nd rd draft pick...

Depending on what we get in the 8th pick, would determine what we get in the traded 1st rd pick (if that happens). If we get Brick on the 8th pick, then we'd probably grab a DT (Watson ?). If we grabbed Mario Williams or Ngata, then we probably grab Eric Winston (OT). There are a good 4-5 tackles that are elite and worth a low 1st rd, but the guards are not really elite and therefore shouldn't be picked very highly. This draft favors Off tackles and Cornerbacks.

[Dr. Who]

I am more impressed with Max than you are. I live in Georgia and have seen a lot of Bulldog games. Overall, however, your views are sound. I'd be shocked if Ferguson lasts to #8.

[mysticsoto]

I am more impressed with Max than you are. I live in Georgia and have seen a lot of Bulldog games. Overall, however, your views are sound. I'd be shocked if Ferguson lasts to #8.

I like Davin Joseph better, but would be happy with either of the two. However, no earlier than the 2nd rd...although, if we get a 2nd 1st from trading Nate, I am still up in the air about who to target. It might be prudent to go after a top CB to replace Nate also...If Tye Hill is available, maybe???

[Michael82]

For the record...I want a real stud Center. I don't want Preston there. I prefer him for depth at the guard/center positions and/or a starting guard.

[Dr. Who]

If Nate is traded, we need to take a cb with our second round pick at the latest. I am inclined to think d-line and o-line in the first if we have two first round picks. I also like Leonard Pope a lot, the Georgia te. I may be somewhat biased towards Georgia players, but they often turn out to be excellent pros.

[The_Philster]

I wouldn't cut Campbell..he's the only proven guy we have at TE and he's solid and dependable..just need to actually get him out in the pass routes a little more. If Everett pans out, Campbell's a top 10 backup, IMO. If Everett doesn't pan out, then we have backups only in Euhus and Neufeld...each have shown ability..but neither has shown themselves worthy of a starting role.

[jamze132]

A poster put up the list of FA Guards for this offseason (thanks BTW!) and I am not impressed. Not at all.

Fonoti (sp) was a guy that I was really high on coming out of college. Then he just crapped out...like a Mike williams. Other than him it's Steve Hutchenson. Watching NFLN last night with him and Alexander, I am betting there is a 90% chance he stays there. He helped build this seahawks team from crap, to superbowl participant. And I think the hawks will be good for the next few years to be honest. I think he stays.

I think the Bills are going to be hard pressed this offseason. Unless major cap moves are made we only have 6.5 mill to play with. 1 mill if we franchise and trade Nate.

Some realistic moves We should honestly look at....

Sit moulds down and tell him how it is. See if he will play 100% even if JP has bad games. No more locker room BS. If he does, restructure his deal. Take 3 mill off of his 6 mill base pay and give him an additional 2 year extention with lesser base salaries. (savings of 3 mill)

Have a heart to heart with Mike Williams. He must agree to a pay cut, maybe an additional year added on. Drop his base from 4 to 2 mill, But he has to stay here from March 1 through the rest off camp. He agrees to drop 30lbs and play LG. (Savings 2 mill)

Go to TKO, drop his base from 4.5 to 3.5 but add on an additional year or so. (Savings 1 mill). London Fletcher, drop him from 4-3 (Savings 1 mill). Cut Campbell (savings 1.3 mill)

That is an additional 8.3 mill in savings. We keep Moulds (again it is all about the attitude) and Try to get something out of Mike Williams (Full offseason at LG). We now have nearly 15 mill for FA. Tag Clements, we now have 9 mill. All we need now is DT, Center, TE. as pure needs. Use the rest to cut some dead weight and replace them.

I know it is a reach...but in reality there is only so many moves that can be made THIS offseason. I just don't see how you expect everyone you mentioned to take a paycut. It's sad. TKO? I think 4.5 mil for him is a bargain!

[Spiderweb]

You're disgarding Gandy even though he played reasonably well??? At the worst, Gandy should play RT in your lineup above. Gandy also has Guard experience and is probably very valuable to McNally who likes to have versatile linemen. Don't forget that McNally exclaimed that out of all the linemen, Gandy was the quickest...even faster than Peters.

Gandy actually may be best suited for RT. Early on the season, it was reported that Gandy was a key reason why McGahee had success running to the left side. Why? Because of Gandy. He also has valuable guard experience , as pointed out above. But hey, don't let that sway anyone's opinions of him. Bash Teague? Fair game, more often than not, he looked like bad highway that was run over by semi's. Villerial? A broken down average guard at his best and now failing. Anderson? No comment is low enough to describe this slug.

Interior line is where the upgrade must begin. Preston? He wasn't very impressive last year. Maybe he will come on, but I really doubt it. Mike Williams? He's enough to make someone think the Indiana Powerr Ball Lottery has better odds.

Teague is a FA this year, right? Let him walk......but bring in some strong vet help....

[ICE74129]

Gandy actually may be best suited for RT. Early on the season, it was reported that Gandy was a key reason why McGahee had success running to the left side. Why? Because of Gandy. He also has valuable guard experience , as pointed out above. But hey, don't let that sway anyone's opinions of him. Bash Teague? Fair game, more often than not, he looked like bad highway that was run over by semi's. Villerial? A broken down average guard at his best and now failing. Anderson? No comment is low enough to describe this slug.

Interior line is where the upgrade must begin. Preston? He wasn't very impressive last year. Maybe he will come on, but I really doubt it. Mike Williams? He's enough to make someone think the Indiana Powerr Ball Lottery has better odds.

Teague is a FA this year, right? Let him walk......but bring in some strong vet help....


Agreed. I think we can get along with Peters and gandy for another year. But G, C, G needs a huge upgrade. The problem is Jauron will keep Villarial because he played for him in Chicago.