Drafted players

[hammerbillsfan]

Are they just really bad players after a couple of years in the league or they fail because of the system they play in (bad team)?

Going back to the 2002 draft, guys like Harrington and Williams have played under bad systems in Detroit and Buffalo :sigh:. While some of the lower 1st rounders like Reed and Freeney have thrived in Baltimore (Billick's D) and Indy under Dungy.

Can you put the fault squarely on the player or the team setup?

Opinions?

[L.A. Playa]

I think alot of factors go into a player being succesful, being at the right place at the right time is one of those factors.

Having a HC and GM on the same page and drafting players that fit into the team rather than just a great athlete that is not needed or fits that team.

I think too many GM's try to be dictators and dictate by their personal decisions what kind of team they want to create rather than letting the coach input what kind of players he needs, the most succesful coaches in the league work with GMs that listen to them and draft and sign players taht wil lwork with taht coach.

Unfortunately Buffalo had TD who thought his way was best and if he got talented players they could fit in any system it doesnt work that way

[kgun12]

I think alot of factors go into a player being succesful, being at the right place at the right time is one of those factors.

Having a HC and GM on the same page and drafting players that fit into the team rather than just a great athlete that is not needed or fits that team.

I think too many GM's try to be dictators and dictate by their personal decisions what kind of team they want to create rather than letting the coach input what kind of players he needs, the most succesful coaches in the league work with GMs that listen to them and draft and sign players taht wil lwork with taht coach.

Unfortunately Buffalo had TD who thought his way was best and if he got talented players they could fit in any system it doesnt work that way

I agree with this! I also think that you can take a rookie O-linemen and put him in with 4 other good linemen and they will cover his mistakes til he gets up to speed. However if you put that rookie with 4 other ok linemen he will look like ****. I think this goes for alot of positions on the the field.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I think alot of factors go into a player being succesful, being at the right place at the right time is one of those factors.

Having a HC and GM on the same page and drafting players that fit into the team rather than just a great athlete that is not needed or fits that team.

I think too many GM's try to be dictators and dictate by their personal decisions what kind of team they want to create rather than letting the coach input what kind of players he needs, the most succesful coaches in the league work with GMs that listen to them and draft and sign players taht wil lwork with taht coach.

Unfortunately Buffalo had TD who thought his way was best and if he got talented players they could fit in any system it doesnt work that way


I totally agree! In addition to this there are other factors, many of which play out behind the scenes and that a lot of fans may not be aware of, that go into whether a player ends up being successful on the pro level (some of which I learned about from a former tenant who had been a 4 year college starter, All-Big 10 LB, Holiday Bowl MVP, Special Teams MVP, and 3rd Round draft pick of an NFL team who never played a regular season down in the NFL):

Athletic ability does play a role in whether a player can fit into a system or not. There are players who can do the things that make them highly successful in one system in college that teams project as being able to be successful in a similar system on the pro level, but because everyone on the pro level is bigger, faster, stronger, more flexible, etc., when that player gets to the pro level he simply lacks the physical ability to do something fast enough or quick enough, etc. to be as successful on the pro level. It can be something as subtle as how quickly he can turn his hips or he loses a fraction of his speed or explosiveness in executing a technique that he didn't have ot be as precise in executing on the college level, etc. (for example, a RB or lineman who plays too high can be great on the college level, but must have the athletic ability to learn to play lower in order to even make it as a pro). Even if the HC and GM are on the same page and a player is drafted into the right system, all of the testing that they do at the Combine, etc. doesn't necessarily indicate whether a player does or doesn't have the athletic ability to do everything that he will need to do to be successful at the higher level where half a step or a fraction of a second can make the difference between being able to make the play or not. Some things are impossible to know until the coach is actually working with the player and he is going up against pro level talent and, as a result, the team is actually picking the player based on a projection--which is nothing more than an educated guess.

Also, there are things that the individual player is responsible for personally that will determine whether he is a success or failure. We've all heard about things like character and know about guys who flop because they hang around with a bad crowd and get arrested or don't have a good work ethic, etc., but there are more things--things that even personality tests can't measure--that are part of the individual's life that go on behind the scenes that can impact whether he is successful or not. Things can go on in a player's family situation that can't be ignored that distract him or he may be a person who needs to be yelled at to get motivated who gets lazy when the coach is someone who takes a more laid-back, positive reinforcement approach to his players (or vice-versa), etc.

Because there are so many more plays, formations and techniques to learn on the pro level and the player needs to not only learn those things, but internalize them so that they become second-nature to him and he doesn't have to think about them, the ability of a player to "get it" on the pro level is also a factor in whether he will be a success or not. We all know about intelligence, football smarts and having the speed of the game "slow down" are factors that go into whether a player makes it or not, but there are other factors in this area--things that don't even have a label and are unquantifiable that contribute to this as well. The best example of these factors is Tom Brady: Bill Belichick remarked in an interview that, in all of his years of coaching and watching his father coach, he had never seen a quarterback make as much progress in all phases in a single off-season as Tom Brady made between the end of his rookie year and the beginning of training camp his second year. It was like night and day, Belichick said, and it forced him to re-evaluate Brady's potential and move him up the depth charts. What happened? What did Brady do to improve so dramatically? Neither Brady nor Belichick know--Belichick said he would bottle it and sell it if he did! But, that's what moved Brady from 6th on the Pats' depth chart up to # 2, past other more highly rated players that that didn't happen to. And, it is totally unpredictable.

There are also the relationships between the HC and the player, the player and the HC and the position coach. One thing that most fans are not aware of is how critical the relationship between the player and his position coach is: on the professional level a player spends more time with his position coach than with any other person in his life--including his wife and family. The HC and GM may like a player, but, if he doesn't get along with his position coach, he's going to have problems, even if he works hard and has all of the ability necessary to be successful. If two players are pretty much equal when they come to a team and the position coach likes one but not the other, he is likely to spend more time mentoring the one he likes and recommend to the HC that that player get more playing time--without practice and playing time, it is hard for a player to get better or to impress the HC enough to get more playing time, let alone be successful. By the same token, in some instances, the HC may like a certain player and may insist that the position coach spend mroe time working with him, etc. For example, several years ago an NFL team drafted two college stars to compete with a solid, but modestly talented veteran for two spots on its roster at the same position--one starting and one as the back-up--the two rookies were very close in ability, but the position coach, who liked the veteran, liked one rookie more than the other, however, the HC loved the other rookie--not just as a player, but personally--in the end, the HC and position coach compromised and kept the veteran and the rookie that the HC loved, who went on to have a great career as a player, winning a Super Bowl and making the Pro Bowl at least once and is now a position coach for that HC's team, while the other rookie was cut and bounced around the NFL for a few years, primarily as a back-up, before an injury ended his career. That team's fans now consider the one rookie one of the team's greatest draft picks and the other one of its biggest busts.

While it is less of a consideration than it used to be, finances and PR can also be a factor in whether a player succeeds or not as well. If a player is taken in the first round of the draft and has a substantial amount of his contract guaranteed there is a lot of pressure on the coaching staff to keep that player and do everything that they can, in terms of extra coaching and reps in practice, etc., to insure that he succeeds. There have been more than a few instances where teams have given more than a little preference to players who were high draft picks over players who were, in some instances, flat-out better, but lower draft picks or free agents. Let's face it, a rookie QB who is taken in the first round is going to be given more attention, more tutoring, more film and practice time, and longer time to show whether he can develop into an NFL starting QB, etc. than a rookie QB taken as an after-thought in the 6th or 7th Round--and all of can have a significant impact on whether that player is successful in the NFL or not. Just look at Joey Harrington and Mike McMahon with Detroit: McMahon never got the coaching, playing time or opportunities that Harrington got before being labeled nothing more than a back-up QB, while Harrington, who has been no more successful than McMahon, is still being considered a possible starter. There are and have been a lot of similar situations.

Luck, especially with regard to injuries, can be a HUGE factor in whether a player is a success or not. Some years ago, the Chicago Bears used a high 1st Round draft pick on a DT who was labeled "Can't Miss" coming out of college. On the second play of his first preseason game his knee ligaments were totally destroyed. After two years of rehabbing, he came back still a bit slower than he had been, but good enough to win a starting spot. Four games into the season, he was injured again, but opted to play with the injury which wasn't as serious, but made him less effective. The team kept his injury quiet and he had an OK, but not great year. The next year he got off to a good start, but a couple of games into the season blew out his other knee and decided to retire. He was considered a major bust by the fans who never knew how seriously he was hurt or didn't care.

Now, that's not even taking into consideration those players who are put into systems that they don't fit into or who are projected to be able to make position switches on the pro level that, for any one of the reasons above, may not be able to make that switch and are labeled busts because they end up being cut or playing a position that they can play but are being paid more to pay than is customary at that position. For example, Mike Williams was projected as a possible LT because he protected C.Simms back-side in college, even though he did not have experience at LT--a lot, if not most, Bills fans consider him a bust because, while he has been a decent run-blocking RT when healthy (I'd believe him when he says he had a back injury last season more than I would TD and MM who consistently lied about injuries), he has been making LT money which is substantially more than RT money. I suspect that fans and the media would have been a lot more forgiving of Williams if he had been advertised and paid as a RT (ie: if you look at Bryant McKinnie's numbers and career, he is not considered a bust, even though he hasn't played any better than Williams and has also missed a fair amount of playing time).

There are a lot of players who could have been, at the very least, good, solid players in the NFL who never were successful. In some cases, it was their own fault. In some cases, it was the fault of the team's management (GM, scouting department, etc.) or the HC. In some cases, it was a problem with the position coach or internal team politics. And, in some cases, it was simply a case of bad luck.

Those players who make it and become stars in the NFL not only have to have great talent and a special kind of make-up, but they also have to find themselves in the right place at the right time, work hard and be very lucky.

[Iehoshua]

The best players rise to the top regardless of their team/system. There are some who may struggle one place yet thrive in another, as well, but they clearly aren't standouts.