Ngata, AJ Hawk, or Brick [Archive] - BillsZone.com

OpIv37

02-04-2006, 12:04 AM

You want AJ Hawk. :lol:

What the hell do you or I know. We haven't broken down hours of film on these guys.

does that matter? Do you think somone broke down hours of film before taking M Williams #4 overall? The dude's a waste of skin. Those are the only guys likely to still be there AND be worthy of a top 10 salary.

Marv has always been one of the best at talent evaluation. If one of the three are still left, I guarantee that they are the pick. If not, feel free to take whatever repercusssion you deem necessary.

tat2dmike77

02-04-2006, 12:08 AM

You want AJ Hawk. :lol:

Whats wrong with AJ Hawk?

ZacGriffi~82

02-04-2006, 12:09 AM

All i'm saying is that Bills fans have this habit of locking on to one guy for everything and it if we don't get him.. BAD BAD BAD!

Maybe, just maybe we don't know everything.

ZacGriffi~82

02-04-2006, 12:10 AM

All i'm saying is that Bills fans have this habit of locking on to one guy for everything and it if we don't get him.. BAD BAD BAD!

Maybe, just maybe we don't know everything.

Nothing, he just said he wanted someone that filled a major need.

tat2dmike77

02-04-2006, 12:18 AM

Nothing, he just said he wanted someone that filled a major need.

I'm not locked into Hawk but if he is there i say take him.

I've also been saying if he is not there then there is a good chance that the bills could pick up carpenter in the 2nd rd. He's not a scrub either he played just as well as Hawk did. But AJ did have the better season but i believe if carpenter was at anthor school he might of been more publisized then what he was.

All i know is that with the #8 pick the bills need to get a quality player that can contribute. I'm not locking into one player cause you never know what will happen.

ZacGriffi~82

02-04-2006, 12:33 AM

Is there room for him to contribute?

ParanoidAndroid

02-04-2006, 12:50 AM

I think this team needs a pass rush as much as or more than a LB. I'm sure to read criticism, but I'd even take Tamba Hali who I have seen as high as #9 but usually top 15. Too many people think this guy is going to continue to improve and his senior bowl was pretty solid.
I think Ngata is special, but there are some good DT's in FA and later in the draft this year. Ferguson would be a nice pick and Williams would be great as well. If by some freak series of picks all those guys are gone and it came down to Hali and Hawk, I'd take Hali. Why? Because there are guys like Tapp, Parham, Sims and Hodge who would be around when we pick in the 2nd round and DE's are a little harder to find. Tapp, IMO, would be an instant upgrade over Posey. Besides that, Fletcher is still a starter and we have Crowell playing well and Spikes who will come back, albeit a bit less than his old self.
I think LB can be overlooked on day one for one more year. We cannot ignore our D-line, O-line, and safety positions as well as the hole Moulds will likely end up leaving.
My draft looks the same now as it did a month ago...
1. Ngata
2. Joseph
3. Baskett
4. Blue

other names I would like to see next to the Bill's logo on draft tickers:
Hali
Ferguson
Mario Williams
Maurice Stovall
Greg Lee
Broderick Bunkley
Jesse Mahelona
Daryn Colledge
Tapp

tat2dmike77

02-04-2006, 12:52 AM

Well with hawk i would say not this season since the bills have said they will be playing a 4-3. But IMO if he is there at #8 you take him simply because he is most likely the best player available. Both he and carpenter would be good replacements for fletcher.

Don't get me wrong i like fletch but the fact is he is getting old and slow and in a cover 2 defense you need speed.

Also there is no guarentie that spikes is going to be the same player he was i hope and :pray: he is but you never know. I like both of these LB. If we don't get hawk i'm not gonna throw a hissy fit or anything.

The draft is just one big crap shoot IMO. There is no sure thing you can either draft the next big thing or the next ryan leaf. You just never know. I just want quality players ya know what i mean. I honestly don't think taking a O-Lineman at #8 is worth the risk either. I would say either a LB, DT, DE, or a Safety would be the way to go.

But hey i'm just an average fan. No matter who they draft i have to live with it and so do the bills.

Mahdi

02-04-2006, 12:55 AM

anyone else and our draft is a disappointment.
Hawk would not drasticallly help this team. We have Crowell, Fletcher, Spikes and Posey. For this team to improve we need an impact player in a position of need. As in DT, DE, G, C. Taking Max Jean Gilles would have more impact on our football team than taking Hawk. Obviously though, taking a guard that high wont happen. The player that will help this team most IMO is Mario Williams. For several reasons.

1) When we let Clements go, having Schobel and Williams as our DEs will greatly help our pass defense.

2) Its much easier and much cheaper to pick up a DT in FA than an impact DE. If we draft Ngata we pay him top 10 money no matter what his position is.

3) With the cover 2 defense we will be employing it is not necessary to have 3 top notch LBs. Look at Tampa, they have Brooks who is obviously very good, after that they have Quarles and Nece, who are good but not great. However what they do have is a solid D-line who get to the QB. Which is what we need.

Therefore IMO if Brick or Williams dont fall to us, I would either reach for Tamba Hali or trade down.

STAMPY

02-04-2006, 12:59 AM

mario williams, ngata or brick. And im a very happy kid

OpIv37

02-04-2006, 01:08 AM

Hawk would not drasticallly help this team. We have Crowell, Fletcher, Spikes and Posey. For this team to improve we need an impact player in a position of need. As in DT, DE, G, C. .

I agree that those are positions of need, but you give too much credit to Flech and Posey. Fletch makes most of his tackles after 5 yard gains, and Pmprosey has 1 big play in 3 years (and he fell short of the TD, so it wasn't that big). Hawk would be an improvement over either one, and possibly over Crowell as well.

ZacGriffi~82

02-04-2006, 01:11 AM

I agree that those are positions of need, but you give too much credit to Flech and Posey. Fletch makes most of his tackles after 5 yard gains, and Pmprosey has 1 big play in 3 years (and he fell short of the TD, so it wasn't that big). Hawk would be an improvement over either one, and possibly over Crowell as well.

No ILB succeeds excells without a pair of good DT's in front of him.

clumping platelets

02-04-2006, 05:47 AM

DB Jimmy Williams :D

Tatonka

02-04-2006, 06:19 AM

anyone else and our draft is a disappointment.

op.. i am normally not very critical of you..

but this is an awful post..

so if we signed a top LT, LB, and DT in free agency, then we should burn our first pick on this?

a trade down could help this team.. a guy like williams or huff could help this team.. hell, trading mcgahee, and drafting white or deangelo williams could help this team possibly..

there are tons of options.. judge the pick after it is made.. dont make up your mind before hand.

Tatonka

02-04-2006, 06:24 AM

Marv has always been one of the best at talent evaluation.

i disagree with this.. bill polian, and john butler to an extent, did almost all of the "talent evaluating".. hell, the superbowl teams already had a good foundation in place when marv got here that didnt involve him at all.. marv even stated that he didnt want bennett.

i definately have questions about how good a "talent evaluator" marv really is..

that being said.. i am not so concerned with his talent evalution, since that is specifically the job of modrak and the scouts, as i am knowing what positions are ones of importance.. i HOPE marv will build this reincarnation of the team around strong lines.. but who the hell knows.

ICE74129

02-04-2006, 07:56 AM

does that matter? Do you think somone broke down hours of film before taking M Williams #4 overall? The dude's a waste of skin. Those are the only guys likely to still be there AND be worthy of a top 10 salary.

Marv has always been one of the best at talent evaluation. If one of the three are still left, I guarantee that they are the pick. If not, feel free to take whatever repercusssion you deem necessary.

Isn't it funny how dorks will say 'well how can you know more than so and so with hours of film on him and scouting blah blah blah'. I said Mike Williams was a POS coming out of TexASS. Why? I am an OU fan and watched NOBODY'S on our team spank his ass for years, let alone the GOOD players. I also read and heard how he had tons of baggage (not just his fat ass) emotionally.

Now how is it the Bills with their millions they spend on scouting, missed what I the lowly ICE saw and knew?

Bottom line is 1) you just don't know. and 2) Teams WAY overthink things.

ICE74129

02-04-2006, 07:59 AM

i disagree with this.. bill polian, and john butler to an extent, did almost all of the "talent evaluating".. hell, the superbowl teams already had a good foundation in place when marv got here that didnt involve him at all.. marv even stated that he didnt want bennett.

i definately have questions about how good a "talent evaluator" marv really is..

that being said.. i am not so concerned with his talent evalution, since that is specifically the job of modrak and the scouts, as i am knowing what positions are ones of importance.. i HOPE marv will build this reincarnation of the team around strong lines.. but who the hell knows.

T you and I are seeing more eye to eye every day. :xmas: There is only one reason we went to 4 superbowls....BILL POLIAN! He handed Marv the most talented team in NFL history. Hard to screw that up.

Now please understand, marv was a genius. I also think his fatherly (Ie I care for you but will spank your ass if you get out of line) attitude will be a calming and solidifying effect on this team. And the man did a great job managing the egos of that team. But without all of that talent...we don't do spit.

Tatonka

02-04-2006, 11:09 AM

i give marv a ton of credit for keeping the team together mentally after losing 4 superbowls.. it takes a real coach of men to get that team back there 4 times in a row, regardless of talent.. and he deserves to be in the hall of fame for that..

but i just dont know about his supposed keen eye for talent yet.

this draft will tell the whole tale. it will be interesting to see if marv can wheel and deal.. if he moves around like TD did.. if he sticks to his spots and just truely goes best available, or if he goes best available according to need.

DraftBoy

02-04-2006, 05:33 PM

one name: Micheal Huff

OpIv37

02-04-2006, 06:20 PM

op.. i am normally not very critical of you..

but this is an awful post..

so if we signed a top LT, LB, and DT in free agency, then we should burn our first pick on this?

a trade down could help this team.. a guy like williams or huff could help this team.. hell, trading mcgahee, and drafting white or deangelo williams could help this team possibly..

there are tons of options.. judge the pick after it is made.. dont make up your mind before hand.

sign FA's at those positions with what cap space? That's the whole problem.

DieHrdBillsFan23

02-04-2006, 07:05 PM

in a cover 2 you also need Safetys to be very active.....I agree with Draftboy, Micheal Huff....If brick or mario williams is gone, get Huff....Hawk is an outstanding LB but with 4 quality LBs already, we dont need them...we can get D-line help in FA and in the 2nd and 3rd rounds where there will still be quality guys left

The_Philster

02-04-2006, 09:04 PM

Fletch makes most of his tackles after 5 yard gains, RBs get a pretty good running start when there's no DT capable of being a run stuffer on the roster...you knew that losing Big Pat would come back to bite us...and now you're blaming Fletcher for not making up for that loss?

YardRat

02-04-2006, 09:59 PM

I'd like to see a trade-down scenario...we have a lot of holes to fill.

tampabay25690

02-04-2006, 11:15 PM

BRICK THIS IS SO EASY>>>>>>>>>>Next Orlando PAce..

OpIv37

02-05-2006, 08:21 AM

RBs get a pretty good running start when there's no DT capable of being a run stuffer on the roster...you knew that losing Big Pat would come back to bite us...and now you're blaming Fletcher for not making up for that loss?

why is everyone so quick to blame Pat Williams for Fletcher's decline in play? could it be that maybe Fletch is no better than average and he can't hold his own unless he has a Pro Bowl tackle in front of him and a Pro Bowl linebacker next to him? It's pretty easy to excel in those circumstances.

The_Philster

02-05-2006, 08:26 AM

no player excels without help in the ultimate team game

dolphinssuck

02-05-2006, 08:44 AM

We need to try to bring in Brick if possible this guy would be a major pick up in a position we really need to improve on. Fletchers decline in play IMO isnt PWs fault hes as stated before is an average player who only excels with pro bowl players around him.

X-Era

02-05-2006, 09:08 AM

why is everyone so quick to blame Pat Williams for Fletcher's decline in play? could it be that maybe Fletch is no better than average and he can't hold his own unless he has a Pro Bowl tackle in front of him and a Pro Bowl linebacker next to him? It's pretty easy to excel in those circumstances.

Yeah, he looked pretty damn good when he had Damione Lewis in front of him on STL. Did I mention Lewis is a UFA?

X-Era

02-05-2006, 09:15 AM

anyone else and our draft is a disappointment.

Love ya man, but its not a 3 horse race.

Theres just too many great looking prospects to get tunnel vision.

What would the next Antonio Gates mean to this team?

What about the next Ladanian Tomlinson?

How about the next Peppers?

BTW, in order thats

Vernon Davis
DeAngelo Williams
Mario Williams

Im not that high on Ngata. Brick and Hawk, fine. But in a 4-3 we draft Hawk? What happens to all the coin we have invested in Fletch? Does Hawk replace Posey? OK, but Crowell proved he can start.

Id rather us make the bulk of the moves on the O and D lines in FA, and then take the best available at ANY position in the draft.

Bentley is leaving, Hutch is probably not. Sign Bentley. Then take at least one of the DT's in Pickett or Lewis from STL. Add in a player like Metcalf (OG). and we are in good shape.

That would leave LG which can be addressed in round 2 on.

Then we get the luxury of getting a player like Huff, Davis, DeAngelo (trading McGahee).

Just too many needs when you are 29th in O and D to get tunnel vision.

Yasgur's Farm

02-05-2006, 09:41 AM

DB Jimmy Williams :DWith you 100%... He can fill in at any secondary position... And with his size and speed, is the perfect replacement for Milloy.

The only other player I'd consider at #8 is LenDale White... After that, trade down.

justasportsfan

02-05-2006, 10:39 AM

funny how a year ago our lb's were regarded as one of the best in the nfl. Was their declined based in the decline of our Dl? I think so. Now Crowell seems to have stepped up. With Spikes, Crowell , Fletcher, Posey, Stamer, I can't see how our lb position is the biggest need.

Fix the Dl and our lb's will get better.

What happened to Stevenson? He was aswsone at camp and preseason. Marv even mentioned how he was impressed by him. There were times when I thought he was Spikes at camp.

TedMock

02-05-2006, 01:38 PM

Love ya man, but its not a 3 horse race.

Theres just too many great looking prospects to get tunnel vision.

What would the next Antonio Gates mean to this team?

What about the next Ladanian Tomlinson?

How about the next Peppers?

BTW, in order thats

Vernon Davis
DeAngelo Williams
Mario Williams

Im not that high on Ngata. Brick and Hawk, fine. But in a 4-3 we draft Hawk? What happens to all the coin we have invested in Fletch? Does Hawk replace Posey? OK, but Crowell proved he can start.

Id rather us make the bulk of the moves on the O and D lines in FA, and then take the best available at ANY position in the draft.

Bentley is leaving, Hutch is probably not. Sign Bentley. Then take at least one of the DT's in Pickett or Lewis from STL. Add in a player like Metcalf (OG). and we are in good shape.

That would leave LG which can be addressed in round 2 on.

Then we get the luxury of getting a player like Huff, Davis, DeAngelo (trading McGahee).

Just too many needs when you are 29th in O and D to get tunnel vision.

I love Vernon Davis, watched every game of his the last two years. I'm a Maryland guy....obviously. Unfortunately, I can't justify taking him with our 8th pick, and he's going to be a first rounder. Although I don't believe LT is our biggest concern, you have to take a guy like D'Brick if you're lucky enough to have him drop to 8th. I'd also be fine with Mario Williams. I like Ngata, but part that scares me and I'm not sure why.

TigerJ

02-05-2006, 02:45 PM

mario williams, ngata or brick. And im a very happy kid

That's about where I am on the first round.

DraftBoy

02-05-2006, 03:56 PM

Micheal Huff over Jimmy Williams any day. Williams is not physical enough to be a safety in the NFL he is going to be an awesome cover corner, but Im saying we should take Micheal Huff in rd 1.

Kerr

02-05-2006, 07:12 PM

Mario Williams should be the first choice if he's there.

Tatonka

02-05-2006, 11:39 PM

Yasgur's Farm

02-06-2006, 06:26 AM

i agree on huff over jimmy williams..

i have seen every single game that jimmy williams has EVER PLAYED at tech..

he is not as good as he is made out to be.. his measurables on top of some above average performances are why he is a first rounder.. but he will not turn out to be the best corner in this draft.

he is very much like willis with his "the U" attitude.. not like most tech players.. jimmy williams will talk about how good he is.. i am sure he will proclaim himself the next great corner.. and will never live up to the hype or his draft position.I see what you're saying... But I anticipate Milloy being released or traded... Our need will be to fill at SS in a cover 2 scheme. I believe Williams is more capable for this purpose. If, on the other hand, Clements is allowed to walk (or tagged and traded), Huff may be the better choice.

Tatonka

02-06-2006, 06:50 AM

mysticsoto

02-06-2006, 08:12 AM

i dont think milloy is going anywhere...

i dont know why people think milloy and adams are being cut..

they are two of the better players on our team.. replacing them with unproven rookies is not going to make our team better. you have to have some veteran leadership.. people are talking about us cutting the only guys on our team that ever even won a superbowl.

Maybe. But given that we are going to a variation of the Cover 2- our safeties will be featured a great deal...Does Milloy still have enough left in him? How about Vincent? How old is archuleta? Isn't he a FA now?

If I'm Marv, I think I would concentrate on the Oline and Dline and bring in a young safety with potential to learn from Milloy or Vincent and possibly start next year. I like Pat Watkins alot and feel he might be available in the 4th for us...he just needs to bulk up some and they could put him on a good workout program for this. In the meantime, he's got good physical attributes to develop.

Pat Watkins profile: 6'4", 200 lbs, 4.50 40 time

Strengths:
Has tremendous size with long arms and the frame to add more weight...Is a very good athlete...Mobile and has excellent range to make plays sideline-to-sideline...Smart and a leader on the field...Great leaper who knows how to go up and get the ball...Will support the run...Still has some upside and potential.

Weaknesses:
Must hit the weight room and get stronger...Needs to bulk up...Not overly physical or explosive despite his size...Inconsistent...Struggles a bit and gets turned in man coverage...Has some minor durability concerns...A bit of an underachiever who didn't always play up to his ability...Only two years of starting experience.

Notes:
Top recruit coming out of high school...Could be chosen earlier than he should based on workouts...From a physical standpoint he would seem to have all the tools you look for and is exactly what the pros are looking for in a safety today.