HARRY CARSON???? Are you ****ing kidding me?

[THATHURMANATOR]

WTF!!!!

[tat2dmike77]

Atleast no Irvin :lol:

[THATHURMANATOR]

How the **** does Warren Moon make it over Thurman??? **** THAT!

[tat2dmike77]

Ok i can agree with moon and aikman and white bothof them

but carson????????????

[tat2dmike77]

How the **** does Warren Moon make it over Thurman??? **** THAT!

The first black QB in the hall thats why

[billsburgh]

what a bunch of bull, thurman isnt even one of the 6 finalists to be voted on? He deserved to be a first ballot guy.

[tat2dmike77]

what a bunch of bull, thurman isnt even one of the 6 finalists to be voted on? He deserved to be a first ballot guy.

Next year

[THATHURMANATOR]

Never even heard of rayfield wright!!!

[THATHURMANATOR]

The first black QB in the hall thats why
So what?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Not even mad that he didn't make it first ballot but he is heads and shoulders better than Carson, Moon or rayfield Wright.

[Mitchy moo]

BS.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Next year
are you sure? Who is eligible next year?

[tat2dmike77]

Now when the bills play on fox if aikman is annoucing joe buck will be consitantly going down on him and he will say hall of fame QB about a million times.

As if trying to watch a game on fox wasn't annoying enough

[tat2dmike77]

So what?

You know how it is nowadays thurm. The media and stuff play that black QB stuff to death and now the NFL can say hey we put one in the hall.

[THATHURMANATOR]

That is fine Aikman deserves it.

[Dr. Lecter]

I can see Carson in the Hall; he was very underrated during his career.

Moon over Thurman is BS.

[THATHURMANATOR]

You know how it is nowadays thurm. The media and stuff play that black QB stuff to death and now the NFL can say hey we put one in the hall.
That is stupid. The guy was a good qb but never won anything, or even got past the divisional round. Don't even talk to me about CFL. That means NOTHING to me!

[tat2dmike77]

are you sure? Who is eligible next year?

Not sure but if he made top 10 this year he should be a go for next year IMO

[THATHURMANATOR]

I can see Carson in the Hall; he was very underrated during his career.

Moon over Thurman is BS.
I can't see Carson. Carson wasn't even the best linebacker on his own team! Thurman is 7th in total yards from scrimmage in the history of the league and is a former MVP! How does Carson even come close to that?

[Dr. Lecter]

Next year's first-timer list is much less impressive.

[tat2dmike77]

That is stupid. The guy was a good qb but never won anything, or even got past the divisional round. Don't even talk to me about CFL. That means NOTHING to me!

I agree thurm

Atleast thurman won the MVP of the league at least he helped the bills win 4 conf championship.

I mean warren moon got smoked in buffalo during a game in which he lost control of the offense and a 32 point lead. Maybe if the bills would of lost a 32 point lead then thurman would be in the hall.

[tat2dmike77]

All i'm hearing from aikmans mouth is BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

[L.A. Playa]

the thing that kept Irvin out and you applaudis the same thing that kept Thurman out, the HOF is really a secret society it isnot the opinion of those that really know its apipularity contest amongsta few pretentious *******s

by theway its the pro football hall of fame and the cfl id professional football so the cfl stats do matter

[tat2dmike77]

I think Art Monk not getting in again is BS as well

[The_Philster]

The thing that keeps Irvin out is the fact that WRs are notoriously slow at getting in. Art Monk should've also gotten in along with Thurman...mark my words, the only first ballot WR to get in in the next decade will be Jerry Rice. Irvin will have to wait for Monk to get in before he can even contemplate Canton.

[L.A. Playa]

Im not saying Thurman isnt deserving because he is, but these voters have a ****ed up perspective, ast year Barry Sanders was a 1st ballot pick, so if Thurman goes in on first ballot they are saying he is as good or better than Barry and even though thats ass backwards thinking I am sure thats why he didnt get in this year

[The_Philster]

I don't see that at all, Playa...going by that, any QB getting in first ballot would be as good as or better than another QB going in on first ballot...and there's no way Aikman or Moon, for example, were as good as Montana

[billsburgh]

All i'm hearing from aikmans mouth is BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
I stopped watching right after they announced that Thurman wasnt in.

[L.A. Playa]

All im saying is these voters have a bias and weird way of voting because Thurman didnt make it in today doesnt make him any less deserving when he does get in

[Bmax]

Emmitt will in the first time as will bruce smith... Andre reed will have to wait years before he is in.....If monk can't get in then how long will it take andre ...


What a shame.....

Bmax

[YardRat]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-060204nflhall-story,1,3149261.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true


"Doug Williams did a little bit of that when he won the Super Bowl, but this would take it to another level," Moon said before Saturday's announcement.


What a joke....a little bit???

[Dozerdog]

Moon Deserves it. More yardage in pro football than any other QB (all leagues combined)

Harry Carson- Maybe- he's about the same level as Talley- but wasn't he the crybaby who was :crying: over not getting selected each year? "If you don't vote for me -screw ya " kinda thing?


Art Monk- In his prime he wasn't the best WR on his own team. Kinda like the Phil Niekro of NFL- longevity, numbers- never dominat.


Thomas not getting in is a travesty. Led the NFL for a bunch of years in a row in total yards.

[AndreReed83]

Two Cowboys, John Madden who will probably have Pat Summerall introduce him, and no Thurman = me not watching the ceremony this year.

Thurman was possibly the best pass catching back of all-time and he could run the ball as well. League MVP and perennial all-purpose yardage leader. Sounds 1st ballot to me but oh well. Next year.

[Typ0]

I think it's sad that people are dissing Moon's accomplishments because he is black. That is rediculous. Color is irrellevant Moon was a top knotch QB who played on a ton of so so teams. Had he been surrounded with the talent Aikman or kelly were he would have won plenty of playoff games and rings.

Thomas not getting in is sad...he was the bread and butter of the best bills teams and he deserved it. I see it as a function of there just being a lot of players available this time around...remember the guys that still aren't getting in are also getting votes. Thurman will be in the HOF next year.

[DraftBoy]

No big deal, those that got in were well deserved...Thurman getting in before Monk would be atragedy imo. The man has deserved so for much longer. I thought Thurm was in but he'll make it eventually.

[chernobylwraiths]

Moon Deserves it. More yardage in pro football than any other QB (all leagues combined)

Harry Carson- Maybe- he's about the same level as Talley- but wasn't he the crybaby who was :crying: over not getting selected each year? "If you don't vote for me -screw ya " kinda thing?


Art Monk- In his prime he wasn't the best WR on his own team. Kinda like the Phil Niekro of NFL- longevity, numbers- never dominat.


Thomas not getting in is a travesty. Led the NFL for a bunch of years in a row in total yards.

I don't know about Carson and the crying part but the rest of it is right on. Monk is a very good receiver but not great. Andre was a much more dangerous weapon than Art was. Travesty was the first word I thought of for Thurman not getting in. He quite possibly could have been a better player than Kelly. Terrible to not let Thurman in. I am assuming Rayfield and Madden got in with the seniors committee. I wouldn't put it past a few of the old time writers to make deals to get certain guys in like Carson.

[Typ0]

Art Monk was a critical part of the offenses he was a part of. Dozer is right he never stood out as a huge play maker but as I remember the Skins Monk was an increadible situational player.

[Historian]

Moon has more yards than Marino with the CFL yards thrown in, so I almost understand it.

But Harry Carson? He was a POS who rode Taylor's coattails.

[The_Philster]

Monk ranks #5 all-time receptions; #9 all time receiving yards

http://%20www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0909367.html
All-Time Leading Receivers

(Through 2005)
<TABLE class=sgmltable border=1><TBODY><TR><TH vAlign=bottom align=right>Rank</TH><TH vAlign=bottom align=left>Player</TH><TH vAlign=bottom align=middle>Number of
receptions
</TH><TH vAlign=bottom align=left>Player</TH><TH vAlign=bottom align=right>Yards</TH></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=right>1.</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Jerry Rice </TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>1,549</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Jerry Rice</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>22,895</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=right>2.</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Cris Carter </TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>1,101</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Tim Brown</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>14,934</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=right>3.</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Tim Brown</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>1,094</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>James Lofton</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>14,004</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=right>4.</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Andre Reed </TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>951</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Cris Carter</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>13,899</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=right>5.</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Art Monk </TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>940</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Henry Ellard</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>13,777</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=right>6.</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Marvin Harrison</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>927</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Andre Reed</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>13,198</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=right>7.</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Jimmy Smith</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>862</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Steve Largent</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>13,089</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=right>8.</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Irving Fryar </TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>851</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Irving Fryar</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>12,785</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=right>9.</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Larry Centers</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>826</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Art Monk</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>12,721</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=right>10.</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Keenan McCardell</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>825</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left>Marvin Harrison</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>12,331</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left></TD><TD vAlign=top align=left></TD><TD vAlign=top align=left></TD><TD vAlign=top align=right></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
He should be in already based on those stats

[chernobylwraiths]

What hurts Monk and will hurt Reed is looking at the list of reception leaders that Phil posted. Larry Centers is number 9 and Irving Fryar 8.

Only four guys on those lists will definitely be in the HOF IMO. Carter, Reed and Harrison with that other guy who is currently dancing on a bad reality show.

[The_Philster]

You don't think Brown will get in? :scratch:
Oh, and keep in mind that #3 on the yardage list..James Lofton..got in a few years late

[Jeff1220]

Carson is in thanks to a career in New York. It's got a lot to do with media exposure.

[Night Train]

Never even heard of rayfield wright!!!

I figured as much.

[That Guy]

Michael Irvin should be in before Art Monk. And I think he will get in before him. Thurman will get in next year. And I'm hoping Derrick Thomas gets in soon.

[The_Philster]

Michael Irvin should be in before Art MonkHow do you figure? He wasn't top 10 in anything ..other than arrests

[tat2dmike77]

How do you figure? He wasn't top 10 in anything ..other than arrests

:lol:

[That Guy]

How do you figure? He wasn't top 10 in anything ..other than arrests
Top 10 in... doesn't matter. Statistics don't make the player. One made a larger impact on the field than the other.


But if you want to play the statistics game:

Irvin had more average yards per season.
Irvin had more average TDs per season.
Irvin had more average receptions per season.
Irvin's best year was superior to Monk's (111/1603/10 TDs vs. 106/1372/7)
Irvin was a 5-time Pro Bowler over 11 seasons, Monk made 3 over 16.
In two of Monk's three Super Bowls he caught just one pass.
Irvin never caught less than 5 balls in a Super Bowl. That includes a great performance (6/114/2) in Super Bowl XXVII.
Irvin was the better playoff performer. He had 10 playoff games where he had 80+ yards, Monk with 6.


Anyways, are you a Dave Krieg or Vinny person? Because that's basically what you're arguing for.

[That Guy]

Retort?

Can I get an 'I agree' or something now?

[THATHURMANATOR]

I figured as much.
I assume you are a Rayfield Wright officianado?

Well fill in a 28 year old please. How many MVP's did he win or how many consecutive seasons did he lead the league in total yards? I can understand he may have been a good player but how should he go in over Thurman?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Top 10 in... doesn't matter. Statistics don't make the player. One made a larger impact on the field than the other.


But if you want to play the statistics game:

Irvin had more average yards per season.
Irvin had more average TDs per season.
Irvin had more average receptions per season.
Irvin's best year was superior to Monk's (111/1603/10 TDs vs. 106/1372/7)
Irvin was a 5-time Pro Bowler over 11 seasons, Monk made 3 over 16.
In two of Monk's three Super Bowls he caught just one pass.
Irvin never caught less than 5 balls in a Super Bowl. That includes a great performance (6/114/2) in Super Bowl XXVII.
Irvin was the better playoff performer. He had 10 playoff games where he had 80+ yards, Monk with 6.


Anyways, are you a Dave Krieg or Vinny person? Because that's basically what you're arguing for.
I would not have been pissed if Irvin made it over Thurman. I would have understood that.

[The_Philster]

Anyways, are you a Dave Krieg or Vinny person? Because that's basically what you're arguing for.Don't see the comparison...Vinny certainly doesn't belong in the HOF...Krieg is marginal as a long shot at best...I see what you're saying, but maybe the fact that Monk held the record until Rice toppled it when I was watching makes Monk's accomplishments more grand, IMO.

[That Guy]

I think that if you've been sitting around waiting to get into the Hall of Fame for 30 years, you may not deserve to get in.

[Dr. Lecter]

One retort I would throw in is that Irvin played on a much more explosive offense that included one off the top RB's of all time, a HoF QB, and an O-line that was dominant.

Monk had a number of starting QB's that he played with (off the top of my head I would say he had about 5 at least). They also played different styles. Monk was the steady consistent player and possession type of WR while Irvin was a big play guy.

It is not a clear cut advantage for Irvin.

[The_Philster]

I think that if you've been sitting around waiting to get into the Hall of Fame for 30 years, you may not deserve to get in.
or it may just be that the writers overlooked you unjustly in the past..and the Seniors Committee made the writers of today more aware of your past accomplishments

[Dr. Lecter]

I assume you are a Rayfield Wright officianado?

Well fill in a 28 year old please. How many MVP's did he win or how many consecutive seasons did he lead the league in total yards? I can understand he may have been a good player but how should he go in over Thurman?

He was a great O-lineman, and those guys rarely have big stats.

[That Guy]

Don't see the comparison...Vinny certainly doesn't belong in the HOF...Krieg is marginal as a long shot at best...I see what you're saying, but maybe the fact that Monk held the record until Rice toppled it when I was watching makes Monk's accomplishments more grand, IMO.
Both Vinny and Dave Krieg are very high up on the quarterback statistic numbers.. I think Vinny is like 6th all-time in passing yards or something (and I think Krieg is still top 10). That's the comparison.

And I'm not saying that Art Monk shouldn't be a Hall of Famer. I think he probably should've gotten in by now. But this whole 'Art Monk Block' that no receivers can get in until after Art Monk is bogus. Michael Irvin was better than Art Monk. But that doesn't mean he isn't a Hall of Famer eventually.

And another bogus thing is that Aikman is getting in before Irvin. Without Irvin and a overwhelmingly huge line (they basically redefined the offensive line position), Aikman isn't Aikman.

[YardRat]

This year's class is a perfect symbol for what HOF's of all sports have become...watered down.

[The_Philster]

Michael Irvin was better than Art Monk.Matter of opinion

[Dr. Lecter]

Both Vinny and Dave Krieg are very high up on the quarterback statistic numbers.. I think Vinny is like 6th all-time in passing yards or something (and I think Krieg is still top 10). That's the comparison.

And I'm not saying that Art Monk shouldn't be a Hall of Famer. I think he probably should've gotten in by now. But this whole 'Art Monk Block' that no receivers can get in until after Art Monk is bogus. Michael Irvin was better than Art Monk. But that doesn't mean he isn't a Hall of Famer eventually.

And another bogus thing is that Aikman is getting in before Irvin. Without Irvin and a overwhelmingly huge line (they basically redefined the offensive line position), Aikman isn't Aikman.

Without the huge line, Emmitt Smith and Aikman, Irvin isn't Irvin either.

[AndreReed83]

Just elect Irvin, Monk, Reed, and three other wideouts next season. Problem solved. Okay... that's a terrible idea. Sorry.

[tat2dmike77]

Why do we even care if Irvin gets in?

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I assume you are a Rayfield Wright officianado?

Well fill in a 28 year old please. How many MVP's did he win or how many consecutive seasons did he lead the league in total yards? I can understand he may have been a good player but how should he go in over Thurman?

I'm probably going to get negged for saying this, but here goes:

1.) Rayfield Wright was one of the most dominating offensive tackles of his time, right behind Minnesota's Ron Yary--think Willie Roaf/Jonathan Ogden--who anchored an offensive line that went to the playoffs 9 years in a row. As an active player, he was considered a sure HOFer. Because, as evidenced by this thread, a lot people base their assessment of a player's quality based solely on stats, linemen like Wright, it took him a long time to get into the HOF. What also hurt his candidacy was that it also took so long for Ron Yary, the best OT of that era, to make the HOF--in part because Anthony Munoz had replaced Yary as the standard by which OTs were judged by the time Yary and Wright became eligible for the Hall.

Wright is a guy who should have been in the HOF a long time ago. He was one of two Senior Committee nominees, along with John Madden, to make it in this year.

2.) Warren Moon did not make it into the HOF based on his race, but because he was a tremendous QB. In an era when black QBs were not even being given a chance to play in the NFL unless they switched to WR, CB, safety or RB, Moon went to Canada and won 6--SIX--Grey Cups, turning the Edmonton Eskimos into a dynasty, before finally getting a chance to play in the NFL as a QB. When he did get to the NFL, Moon was already an "old man", yet he still managed to have 9 3,000 yard seasons, third most in history, and make 9 Pro Bowls. While it is true that Houston didn't go as far as the Bills in the playoffs, Houston's playoff failures can hardly be blamed on Moon any more than the Bills' failures can be blamed on Thomas (both had their bad and brilliant moments). Since this is the PRO FOOTBALL Hall of Fame and not just the NFL Hall of Fame, Moon's extraordinary accomplishments in Canada deserve to be taken into consideration when evaluating his career and, in that sense, could be seen as giving him a slight edge over Thurman Thomas in this vote (see below for other reasons).

3.) Contrary to what a lot of people here seem to think, Harry Carson definitely had a Hall of Fame career. Carson was a pro bowler before Lawrence Taylor arrived, went to 9 Pro Bowls, including 7 in a row, led the Giants in tackles 5 times, and was the captain of their defense that won two Super Bowl rings. And, numbers don't entirely tell the story of Carson's value to that defense. He was it's heart and soul, in much the way Darryl Talley was with the Bills, but he was a better player than Talley (for those who only remember the Carson who played against the Bills in the SB, Carson was already in the league 15 years by then), espcially early in his career. But, Carson wasn't a first ballot HOFer (see below) like LT or some others and, when he didn't make the HOF in his first three years of eligibility, he got ticked off because he felt, arguably so, that he was good enough to have made it into the HOF by then and he made the mistake of popping off in the NYC area press about it. Carson was wrong to do that, but he wasn't wrong about his qualifications for the HOF. His not getting in sooner and now getting in over Thurman Thomas is more a matter of how the PF HOF voters go about voting than about whether either of them deserve to be in the HOF.

4.) Like it or not, Troy Aikman, with 3 SB wins, and Reggie White, the most dominant DE of his time, who recently passed away, were first ballot HOFers who were going to be elected this year. John Madden and Rayfield Wright, both of whom should have been in the HOF already, were the two Senior Committee nominees--and both of them were finally going to get in this year. That left two spots open, since there can only be a maximum of six entrants to the HOF in any one year. And, Moon, because of his play in Canada as well as in the NFL and the fact that he opened the door for a lot of the black QBs who are in the game today, deserved to get one of those spots (why? see below). That left only one spot open to be filled by either Carson or Thomas.

As Mark Gaughan (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060129/1049817.asp) and especially Bob DiCesare (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060131/1054816.asp) as well as numerous television and radio commentators, including ESPN's Mike Golic and Mike Greenberg and WFAN's Chris Russo and Mike Francesa have pointed out in this past week, Pro Football HOF voters take a very different approach to voting for candidates to their HOF than voters for other HOFs in other sports. As DiCesare details in his excellent article, many PF Hall of Fame voters refuse to vote for a player in his first year of eligibility, even if they believe the player belongs in the Hall, unless that player was either the most dominant player at his position (like Jim Brown or Barry Sanders) or changed the game (like Lawrence Taylor or Reggie White) or was a prominent Super Bowl winner (like Joe Montana or Troy Aikman). That does not mean that they do not believe that the player is ultimately worthy of being a HOFer or that a player that they may vote into the Hall is necessarily better than a first time candidate that they would not vote for. What it means is that they do not believe that that player's career was sufficiently comparable to that of the relative handful of first ballot Hall of Famers to merit first ballot entrance.

This criterion, which prevented Yary, Wright, Madden and others from being elected to the HOF when they were considered deserving by many, was what had kept Harry Carson from being elected to the HOF previously. And, it was likely the reason that HOF voters this year decided to select Carson rather than first time candidate Thurman Thomas.

Now, it's not that Thomas wasn't a dominating player who was critical to the success of the Bills' SB teams--he unquestionably was. But, in comparison to the other running backs of his own era it can be argued that, at best, he was only the third best behind Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith and does not deserve the same kind of treatment from the voters as first ballot running backs like Gale Sayers and Jim Brown, etc.

Nor is it saying that Thomas was not as good a player as Harry Carson. Carson was every bit as good a linebacker in his day as Jack Ham was in his, but Carson was not the kind of player who could take over a game the way that Thurman Thomas could. But, as a linebacker (in comparison to the other linebackers of his day), Carson deserves to be in the Hall of Fame just as much as Thomas does in comparison to his contemporaries at running back.

Given the approach that many Pro Football Hall of Fame voters are known to take in their voting, it is likely that many felt that Moon, who was the first QB to successfully make the transition from Canadian football to the NFL and was the first black QB to have sustained top-level success in the NFL in addition to a HOF-worthy career, deserved election on the basis of having contributed to changing the game and that Harry Carson, who had had been a finalist candidate for many years after a HOF-worthy career, were more deserving of their votes and entrance into the HOF this year than Thurman Thomas, who, despite having a HOF-worthy career, they did not feel had met the criteria for entrance into the HOF as a first ballot running back.

Based on all of the articles that I read (including those cited above and all of those listed on the BZ front page) and all of the commentary that I heard on ESPN and other sports radio and TV shows in this week leading up to the HOF announcement, I was not at all surprised that the HOF voters did not choose to elect Thurman Thomas this year. The buzz seemed to be that, while he deserves to be a HOFer, there were doubts about whether he deserved first ballot election. In that regard, the election of Harry Carson after several years of waiting, should be seen as a hopeful sign that the HOF voters will not forget about players like Carson and Thomas who, by their criteria, may not deserve first ballot election, but do belong in the HOF.

Rather than being angry that Harry Carson made it into the HOF this year and Thurman Thomas didn't, I am glad that Harry Carson finally made it and understand why, given the criteria of the HOF voters, Thurman Thomas didn't. I look forward to Thurman's election and am encouraged by Carson's election that Thomas' time will come soon.

P.S.: As for Art Monk, the big knock that I heard repeatedly on Monk was that Monk was a "compiler" who led his own team in receiving only once during his career and stuck around to break records at the end of his career. Unlike the MLB HOF, which welcomes guys like Gaylord Perry and Don Sutton, who got to certain HOF benchmarks by sticking around long past their primes, the PF HOF voters seem to be determined to make a statement that their HOF rewards players who were dominant, even during a short career, by showing a deliberate prejudice against "compilers". The PF HOF also seems to be trying to make a statement that player can actually be elected after waiting several years, unlike the MLB HOF, where a player's candidacy is pretty much dead if he doesn't get elected in the first couple of years of his candidacy. Personally, I think that Art Monk was a far more dangerous and dominant player than his year by year numbers suggest--like Eric Moulds, he made the other receivers on his team much better because teams couldn't afford not to double-team him. I think he should be in the HOF, but understand that, using their critieria and in comparison to the other receivers of his era, he probably is a marginal HOFer at best.

[Night Train]

I assume you are a Rayfield Wright officianado?

Well fill in a 28 year old please. How many MVP's did he win or how many consecutive seasons did he lead the league in total yards? I can understand he may have been a good player but how should he go in over Thurman?

Rayfield Wright
Tackle, 6-6, 255Played: 1967-1979 Dallas Cowboys. 13 seasons, 166games.
http://www.espn.go.com/media/nfl/2006/0204/photo/a_wright_65.jpg

Wright

<!---------------------INLINE HEADSHOT (END)--------------------->Highights: Selected by Cowboys in seventh round of 1967 draft. ... Seniors Committee nominee. ... Used as a tight end, defensive end and offensive tackle during first three seasons. ... In 1969, replaced injured right tackle Ralph Neely in lineup. ... First opponent was Hall of Fame defensive end Deacon Jones. ... Performance against Jones good enough that before 1970 training camp, became starting right tackle. ... One season later,All-NFL. ... Known as "Big Cat," picked in the Pro Bowl six consecutive times (1971-1976). ... Helped Cowboys to 10 division titles, six conference championships and two Super Bowl victories. ... Played in five Super Bowls.



Before you rant further, read the bold print.

[The_Philster]

Why do we even care if Irvin gets in?
Because it's sickening seeing someone get in whose biggest contribution to the NFL was the number of times he was on the police blotter :down:

[tat2dmike77]

Because it's sickening seeing someone get in whose biggest contribution to the NFL was the number of times he was on the police blotter :down:

Point taken phil

But i have heard some people say that if irvin does not get in then it could be harder for reed to get in.

I don't see why other then the whole irvin has rings and reed doesn't thing. Your thoughts on that.

[The_Philster]

Those people don't make any sense. Reed's numbers put him above Irvin..he was #2 all-time in receptions when he left Buffalo...and no one can say Andre wasn't dominant. To me the measure of a dominant WR is how much he's double-teamed yet still gets the ball. Andre was rarely not doubled.

[tat2dmike77]

Those people don't make any sense. Reed's numbers put him above Irvin..he was #2 all-time in receptions when he left Buffalo...and no one can say Andre wasn't dominant. To me the measure of a dominant WR is how much he's double-teamed yet still gets the ball. Andre was rarely not doubled.

I agree with you about Andre being dominant. I remember reading a article from that sports paper that went under don't remember thier name right now. But they basically said that at the time Andre Reed was the AFC answer to Jerry Rice.

I always like ander and i liked what he said about going over the middle to catch a ball it was something like. Your gonna get wheter you catch it or not so why not make the hit worth it and catch the ball.

I give him respect his wife at the time (don't know if thier still married) was hot. She had a football card from those proline people and i still have it LOL.

[The_Philster]

I think they're still together...but his eyes still wander...I noticed him checking out the Jills when he was hanging in the tunnel and they were heading in at the half :lol:

[tat2dmike77]

Now don't talk about eyes wondering you said earlier today that you didn't even notice Thurms name up on the wall at the miami game.

BTW what happened to the jill in your avatar

[The_Philster]

Now don't talk about eyes wondering you said earlier today that you didn't even notice Thurms name up on the wall at the miami game.

BTW what happened to the jill in your avatar
I noticed...it just slipped my mind because I was ticked about him not getting elected...I'm pretty sure I even got a few pics of the unveiling :lol:
As far as the avatar, I figured I should find an avatar I'm not gonna have to switch every week in case LOG adds custom avatar to the list of things you have to pay for.

[tat2dmike77]

NOOOO not that i like my Al Bundy Avatar i really would donate but between paying for school and bills i need every buck.

I know it's only 25 bucks but hey i barely have enough money for gas and food.

Oh well nothing i can't really deal with.

[The_Philster]

NOOOO not that i like my Al Bundy Avatar i really would donate but between paying for school and bills i need every buck.

I know it's only 25 bucks but hey i barely have enough money for gas and food.

Oh well nothing i can't really deal with.
I meant with Zonebux ...in the store...and not a case of paying for one you already have...but switching it..and I've been switching my avatar weekly

[tat2dmike77]

Oh i'm still getting used to this Zone bucks thing. I noticed on my account it said something like

Theif from and the name i think Lt ghost and then it said 30 at the end

what was that about?

[The_Philster]

looks like you know who stole from you

[tat2dmike77]

Thats the thing i don't think he got the bucks cause i remember seeing my ZB going up by 30 around that time. I figured i should put them in the bank after i saw that.

[The_Philster]

must be he tried to steal them and failed...a failed theft attempt gives the intended victim the zbs
:lolpoint: LT teh ghost

[MarvLevy]

I KNOW HARRY PERSONALLY AND HE DESREVES IT. THERE IS A WRITER OUT HERE IN NJ, VINNY DITRIANI, WHO WENT IN CAMPAIGNING AND I HEARD HE CHANGED PEOPLES MINDS.
RELAX, THURMAN WILL GET IN EVENTUALLY. HE WILL JUST HAVE TO WAIT..LIKE WE WAITED FOR HIM TO FIND HIS HELMET.