To answer Jerry Sullivan...

[ICE74129]

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060205/1010859.asp


What if? Rothlesburger would have not been 1/2 as good as he is in Pittsburgh and been labled a bust just like JP. That is the REALITY of the situation.

[Jersey1031]

I was just thinking about this the other day... The fall-back being we wouldn't have Lee

[Charlieguide]

I'm so f**king tired of jackass reporters pressuring young players like this!!! :grind: They want every player to be the exception. How long did it take Steve Young to develop? (no, he didn't sit behind Montana . . . he played in TB first!) What about the rest of the team? The coaches?

I think this franchise has gone a long way to proving you can have a lot of good players in the wrong places, being coached by the wrong people, and managed right out of contention.

Here's a better question for reporters to ask, if they can't just support the team:

What if we had Pittsburgh's offensive line? Well, my guess is, we'd still have a qb on our team that might very soon become only the fourth ever to reach 50,000 career passing yards . . . but that's just a guess. We'd certainly have had a lot less sacks, pressures, hurries, and generally paranoid QBs, not to mention a sound running game. But then, what do I know? I'm no reporter, after all.

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

Jerry Sullivan is a dickhead!, he's a terrible writer, he's the biggest boob that the Buffalo News has. He should be fired from the Buffalo News actually the whole news should be shut down it's a :z: fest it only has three pages for the sports page and that includes the ads! :roflmao:

[vicmantak]

The Bills picked 13th that year, the Steelers 11th. The Bills were determined to get their quarterback of the future. They tried to move up to get Roethlisberger, to no avail. Later, Donahoe said he couldn't find a willing "dance partner." He took Lee Evans with the 13th pick, then traded with Dallas to get J.P. Losman later in the first round.
It's hard to say but we will always live with this fact. Buffalo was only TWO SPOTS to get our franchise QB! + no costly trades + no QB controversy and mainly TIME...

J.P. Losman
Positives: J.P. Losman has the physical attributes you want in an NFL quarterback. He has good size (6-3, 220) and strength, a very strong arm that can make all the throws including the deep out, and one of the quickest releases in all of college football.
Losman has decent agility, and good speed. He also has above average athletic ability. He can make plays with his feet and can throw on the run. He's a fiery competitor, a tough leader and can take a hit. He doesn't get shaken often.
Negatives: Losman doesn't set his feet real well, throws off his back foot often causing the ball to sail, and doesn't rotate his hips properly. At Tulane, he played mostly out of the shotgun and will have to adjust to playing under center. He tends to rush his throws at times and will force the pass too often. Sometimes tries to make too much happen by himself. Also needs to work on reading coverages a little better.
Projection: Tulane's J.P. Losman has everything NFL scouts look for in a quarterback, but he needs to polish his game a little, especially his footwork. He should be selected anywhere from the late-first to second round of the 2004 NFL Draft.

Ben Roethlisberger
Positives: Ben Roethlisberger has everything you look for in a franchise quarterback. He's got the big arm, but he also has excellent accuracy (69.1%) and nice touch. He is a pure pocket passer with excellent size and he moves around in the pocket well. He also has great escapability, often making the first defender miss. He also throws with incredible accuracy on the run... especially for a player his size.
Negatives: There's not much to dislike about Roethlisberger's game. The only knock on him is that he played in the MAC, but with guys like Pennington and Leftwich coming out of the conference in recent years, I doubt his draft status will be adversly affected.
Projection: At this time, Ben Roethlisberger appears to be an early first-round pick in the 2004 NFL Draft, and could possibly be the first quarterback taken.
It seems that James Alder predictions are totally correct and if I'm not wrong... we better stick on our QB situation. In other words, stick with Kelly Holcomb as a starter until J.P. finish his "polishing..."

[Bill Cody]

To get ahead of the Steelers I'll bet TD would have had to give up the 13th pick plus our 2nd and he was unwilling to do so. Instead he gives up a 1st 2nd and 5th to get Lossman.:wail:

[SabreEleven]

If the Bills got Roeisthberger, this article would have been written with Losman and Roeisthberger names switch

[kgun12]

If the Bills got Roeisthberger, this article would have been written with Losman and Roeisthberger names switch

:bullseye: You are correct. I was thinking the exact same thing!

[Historian]

Exactly.

[ddaryl]

To get ahead of the Steelers I'll bet TD would have had to give up the 13th pick plus our 2nd and he was unwilling to do so. Instead he gives up a 1st 2nd and 5th to get Lossman.:wail:

We did not give up a 1st... we swapped a 2005 1st rd picks with Dallas. It pnly cost us a 2nd and 5th.

AND if we had Ben R you would be the 1st Bills fans to label him a bust after our OL fails him and he ends up sucking.

If Bills fans cannot see the difference in the Bills and the Steelers then obviously these same Bills fans cannot see what players are worth developing and which ones are worth cutting bait.

The steelers have Ben R, he is a solid QB, but his situation is 10 x's superior then what the Bills have provided JP. Our D sucked, our Special teams was good, but wasn't as great as in 2004, and our OL is litterally the laughing stock of the NFL.

[ICE74129]

If the Bills got Roeisthberger, this article would have been written with Losman and Roeisthberger names switch

Exactly. Ben would be a bust and JP would be possibly looking at a superbowl ring. The TEAM Ben went to is the thing.

Fans seem to think this TEAM is in the same league as the steelers, Broncos, Panthers, New England etc. It isn't. And until the TEAM is, NO QB will be leading us anywhere.

Marv Levy, in his polite and PC way' said so at his PC. It never was JP....it was the lack of a good TEAM around him.

[AndreReed83]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The entire team, INCLUDING JP, sucked last year. It's a process. He should be better next season. His teammates probably play better around him. Improve the O-line, and the team improves drastically. All that jazz. No one escapes this season's fiasco.

[tat2dmike77]

We can say this about every player that any team has passed up on lets run through a short list.

What if the bills drafted
Dan Marino would he of won a super bowl in buffalo?
Tom Brady see above
Hines Ward Would he be as dominate as is now?
Jake Delhome Would he be a good QB in buffalo?
Larry Johnson Would he be a good back in buffalo?

The list can go on and on and on. The draft is a crap shoot and you never know how a player is going to fit in. BR came into a rookie QB wet dream. We can all sit here and think about what might of been and continue to kill ourselves about it or we can just look ahead and think what could be. Jerry sulivan is a trouble maker he's just writing some garbage cause he has nothing better to do with his time. Most of his articles i read are about how the bills stink. He needs to go play in traffic on the 290.

[ICE74129]

We can say this about every player that any team has passed up on lets run through a short list.

What if the bills drafted
Dan Marino would he of won a super bowl in buffalo?
Tom Brady see above
Hines Ward Would he be as dominate as is now?
Jake Delhome Would he be a good QB in buffalo?
Larry Johnson Would he be a good back in buffalo?

The list can go on and on and on. The draft is a crap shoot and you never know how a player is going to fit in. BR came into a rookie QB wet dream. We can all sit here and think about what might of been and continue to kill ourselves about it or we can just look ahead and think what could be. Jerry sulivan is a trouble maker he's just writing some garbage cause he has nothing better to do with his time. Most of his articles i read are about how the bills stink. He needs to go play in traffic on the 290.

Agreed. Everyone wants 'X' QB to have rothlesburger success. Ok, put a team as good as the steelers, with the good coaching they have, around that QB and he will be as successful.

And this is FACT. There are no great/ very successful QB's that didn't have a great TEAM around them.

[tat2dmike77]

BR has now offically put more presure on every young QB that will play or that is going to play in the NFL.

From now on that will be the standard and it's not fair. Your going to hear he's no BR for a very long time. Even fans will look at thier new young rookie QB and say well if BR did it why can't this guy do it?

The steelers winning the super bowl was just not because of BR. They have solid players solid coaching and great chemistry amongst the players and coaches. I'm not saying that BR wa a big part of thier march to the super bowl but he's not the sole reason they won.

The point is and ICE stated it clearly BR has a good TEAM around him. Without Ward, Bettis, Randle El, Porter, Palomalou, Parker and the great offensive line BR would be anthor young QB still developing.

[vicmantak]

Please, it doesn't make sense that even Big Ben has an impressive winning record and won the SB; he is still underrated and unappreciated in this board.

Ben Roethlisberger is arguably a proven winner and I agree 100% with Jerry Sullivan.

[tat2dmike77]

Please, it doesn't make sense that even Big Ben has an impressive winning record and won the SB; he is still underrated and unappreciated in this board.

Ben Roethlisberger is arguably a proven winner and I agree 100% with Jerry Sullivan.

I'm not arguing that he is a good QB now but you can't sit there and say that he would have the same record if he played for the cardnails. It boils down to the fact that he is surronded by good talent. He's not the only player on the field.

I'm not hating on BR but the point is he walked into a great situation. I mean come on if tommy maddux can win in pitt doesn't that say something about thier coaching and the other players they have on the team?

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

[QUOTE=tat2dmike77]We can say this about every player that any team has passed up on lets run through a short list.

What if the bills drafted

Tom Brady

DON'T EVEN SAY TOM BRADY AND BILLS IN THE SAME SENTENCE! :roflmao:

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

[QUOTE=tat2dmike77]We can say this about every player that any team has passed up on lets run through a short list.

What if the bills drafted

Tom Brady

DON'T EVEN SAY TOM BRADY AND BILLS IN THE SAME SENTENCE! :roflmao: :jk:

[ICE74129]

Please, it doesn't make sense that even Big Ben has an impressive winning record and won the SB; he is still underrated and unappreciated in this board.

Ben Roethlisberger is arguably a proven winner and I agree 100% with Jerry Sullivan.

I will state right now that BR on another team is a good QB at best. No where near the success, no where near the winning % nor QB rating.

You need to wake up and realise the FACTS. The STEELERS have an impressive winning record, not rothlesburger.

[ICE74129]

[quote=LOSman WINS] :jk:

Brady wouldn't do spit here, or in Arizona or any sucky team like ours. He is a system QB under a great coach, with other great players in a great system.

Build up this TEAM and JP will be just fine. Put it all on him and expect him to overcome all the shortcomings this TEAM has, and he will never be successful...nor would ANY QB.

[slakjaw157]

Sullivan is just stirring the pot, something he does on a regular basis. IMO Big Ben is still overated and would not be half as good if he was on a different team, example J.P. Losman. Ben had a twenty something QB rating in the SB.

I would not swap Losman for Big Ben at this point, mainly because he would get killed, just like JP with our offensive line. Let's give Losman a chance after improving the line. If he fails, I will personally lead the parade running him out of town.

[Bill Cody]

We did not give up a 1st... we swapped a 2005 1st rd picks with Dallas. It pnly cost us a 2nd and 5th.



Read what I wrote again more slowly. Lossman cost us a 1st in 2005, plus a 2nd and 5th in 2004 to acquire the 25th pick in the 2004 draft from Dallas. Why is this confusing?

[tat2dmike77]

Read what I wrote again more slowly. Lossman cost us a 1st in 2005, plus a 2nd and 5th in 2004 to acquire the 25th pick in the 2004 draft from Dallas. Why is this confusing?

Ummmmmmm i dunno

[Jersey1031]

We did not give up a 1st... we swapped a 2005 1st rd picks with Dallas. It pnly cost us a 2nd and 5th.


Yea your definitley wrong. Roscoe in the 2nd round was our first pick last year.

[Jeff1220]

I think what he's stating is that the Bills swapped 2005 1st to Dallas for a 2004 1st from Dallas, plus a 2004 2nd and 5th.
For BigBen, the Bills, at minimum, would've given up their 2005 1st (#13) for the Steelers' 2005 1st (#11), and the 2005 2nd +.


As for the Sullivan article, Apples and Oranges imo. The Steelers are good and the Bills suck. That's the bottom line and QB is only part of the equation. Hopefully that'll change.

[ICE74129]

When the TEAM improves, losman will improve. It still amazes me how the hell fans expect losman to do what BR doesn't have to do. BR has to manage a really good offense, backed by a great defense and great coaching.

JP is supposed to LEAD and put a team of pure crap on his shoulders and win. Not going to happen and BR couldn't do it either.

Thank GOD Marv understands this.

[justasportsfan]

When the TEAM improves, losman will improve. It still amazes me how the hell fans expect losman to do what BR doesn't have to do. BR has to manage a really good offense, backed by a great defense and great coaching.

JP is supposed to LEAD and put a team of pure crap on his shoulders and win. Not going to happen and BR couldn't do it either.

Thank GOD Marv understands this.It also helps that BR has one hell of a rb situation that helps him out.

[finsrclowns]

It also helps that BR has one hell of a rb situation that helps him out.

:shocked: I thought we had the best running back in the NFL?

[ICE74129]

It also helps that BR has one hell of a rb situation that helps him out.

But even that starts with the lines.

BR is going to have a much tougher time of it now that Bus is gone. Staley isn't going to do much and that leaves them with just parker.

[AndreReed83]

I can't think of any rookie QB who got drafted into a better O-line situation then Big Ben. He certainly lucked out there.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Roethlisberger also had the full support of his teammates when he took over for Maddox and they didn't complain about how long they had to play on defense or the kind of offense they were running in the few games that their running game was slowed down or the games when Roethlisberger struggled or didn't throw the ball much. Pittsburgh's players on both side of the ball know what Cowher's philosophy and system is and have bought into it completely--there are no complaints and there is no finger-pointing inside their lockerroom. That's a great situation for a young QB to be in because he knows that, even if he has a horrible game, his teammates aren't going to get down on him. He was awful in the playoffs last year and he nearly blew the Super Bowl for them this year, but the only one who has said anything about how bad he played has been Roethlisberger himself.

Losman hasn't been in that situation. In fact, he hasn't even been in the kind of situation that Eli Manning has been in with the Giants: where the vets complained about him taking over last year, but held their piece publicly after their coach told them to shut up, yet still grumbled privately. Eli struggled a lot for the Giants last year and this past season had some awful games, but he got nothing but support from his teammates this season. The only ones talking about all the bad games he had down the stretch this year were the media people--his teammates have not said anything negative about him. And, he was a guy who was handed the starting job when he not only was clearly unable to win it, but the veteran QB he replaced had a winning record!

I don't know how the Bills change the situation that they have, but Losman has not been in a situation anywhere near as condusive to his development or success as either of the other two QBs, especially Roethlisherger's situation in Pittsburgh. To compare them is not only like comparing apples and oranges, it is utterly unfair.

[ddaryl]

Read what I wrote again more slowly. Lossman cost us a 1st in 2005, plus a 2nd and 5th in 2004 to acquire the 25th pick in the 2004 draft from Dallas. Why is this confusing?

Ok m-o-r-e- s-l-o-w-l-y

I d-i-d- r-e-a-d w-h-a-t- y-o-u- p-o-s-t-e-d. H-e d-i-d n-o-t c-o-s-t u-s a 1st r-o-u-n-d p-i-c-k.

We had 2 1st rd picks in 2004 instead of one. So our 2005 1st rd pick was essentially JP. That is the way it was


Yea your definitley wrong. Roscoe in the 2nd round was our first pick last year.

I'm not. We had two 1st round picks in 2004. SO we swapped a 2005 1st rd pick for an extra 2004 1st rd pick. We didn't give up or lose a 1st rd pick when we obtained JP, all we did is move our 2005 1st rd pick into 2004's draft, and that cost a 2nd and 5th rd pick in 2004.

[ICE74129]

Roethlisberger also had the full support of his teammates when he took over for Maddox and they didn't complain about how long they had to play on defense or the kind of offense they were running in the few games that their running game was slowed down or the games when Roethlisberger struggled or didn't throw the ball much. Pittsburgh's players on both side of the ball know what Cowher's philosophy and system is and have bought into it completely--there are no complaints and there is no finger-pointing inside their lockerroom. That's a great situation for a young QB to be in because he knows that, even if he has a horrible game, his teammates aren't going to get down on him. He was awful in the playoffs last year and he nearly blew the Super Bowl for them this year, but the only one who has said anything about how bad he played has been Roethlisberger himself.

Losman hasn't been in that situation. In fact, he hasn't even been in the kind of situation that Eli Manning has been in with the Giants: where the vets complained about him taking over last year, but held their piece publicly after their coach told them to shut up, yet still grumbled privately. Eli struggled a lot for the Giants last year and this past season had some awful games, but he got nothing but support from his teammates this season. The only ones talking about all the bad games he had down the stretch this year were the media people--his teammates have not said anything negative about him. And, he was a guy who was handed the starting job when he not only was clearly unable to win it, but the veteran QB he replaced had a winning record!

I don't know how the Bills change the situation that they have, but Losman has not been in a situation anywhere near as condusive to his development or success as either of the other two QBs, especially Roethlisherger's situation in Pittsburgh. To compare them is not only like comparing apples and oranges, it is utterly unfair.

To take your great point further. Kyle Orton. The man went 10-5 as a ROOKIE. None of the players really wanted him to start, but STFU and did their jobs to the best of thier abilities. The result? a first round bye and division title.

Our #1 problem was a weak man for HC. Our #2 is TD putting together a locker room of self serving, self centered veterans. TEAM is the thing, not what a handful of vocal veterans want.

I will say this again, had moulds been the VETERAN LEADER everyone thinks he is, he would have rallied the troops FOR losman, not lead the charge to get him benched. If you can't figure that out, or why he should have, you don't know football nor what leadership is.