Mel Kiper

[patmoran2006]

This is a quote from Mel Kiper (Not that he's GOd, but he does know the draft)

Do the Jets really need tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson? Adrian Jones played fairly well at the end of last season, and this seems like a deep class at offensive line. Wouldn't it make sense to draft defensive end Mario Williams or linebacker A.J. Hawk? -- Jesse, Brooklyn, N.Y.
No, I don't think so. Jones was adequate and has some skills, but Ferguson is a major upgrade, and O-line is not a deep position in this draft. It turned out to be a disappointing position in 2005. Several players I expected to have high grades, like Miami's Eric Winston, did not materialize to the level I thought they would.
When you are picking fourth overall, as the Jets are, you have to get one of the top four players in the draft. You could make the argument for Williams or Hawk, but if you look at the Jets' needs, they are at right or left tackle on the offensive line, running back, cornerback, defensive tackle and defensive end. They don't have a true linebacker need. With the players they will have to choose from, Ferguson will be the best option.


KIPER also has the top seven in the draft, without trades of course in this order:
1. Bush
2. Leinhart
3. Young
4. Brick
5. Mario Williams
6. Hawk
7, Huff

If this holds true, and probably will. I dont see any other option than Ngata at Number 8.. PERSONALLY, I would love to see us solidy DT in FA and take vernon davis with that pick. He's another Antonio Gates and could make life a lot better on the offense, ESPECIALY if Moulds leaves..

Kiper is not very high on Winston Justice anymore, said detroit at 9 thats too high to take him.. and there isn't a lot of quality at OL in this year's draft.

So while I think we can get a starting guard in the second round.. I hope we address a DT, LT/RT and a center in FA.. We should have the money to sign two impact guys and someone decent.

[X-Era]

This is a quote from Mel Kiper (Not that he's GOd, but he does know the draft)

Do the Jets really need tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson? Adrian Jones played fairly well at the end of last season, and this seems like a deep class at offensive line. Wouldn't it make sense to draft defensive end Mario Williams or linebacker A.J. Hawk? -- Jesse, Brooklyn, N.Y.
No, I don't think so. Jones was adequate and has some skills, but Ferguson is a major upgrade, and O-line is not a deep position in this draft. It turned out to be a disappointing position in 2005. Several players I expected to have high grades, like Miami's Eric Winston, did not materialize to the level I thought they would.
When you are picking fourth overall, as the Jets are, you have to get one of the top four players in the draft. You could make the argument for Williams or Hawk, but if you look at the Jets' needs, they are at right or left tackle on the offensive line, running back, cornerback, defensive tackle and defensive end. They don't have a true linebacker need. With the players they will have to choose from, Ferguson will be the best option.


KIPER also has the top seven in the draft, without trades of course in this order:
1. Bush
2. Leinhart
3. Young
4. Brick
5. Mario Williams
6. Hawk
7, Huff

If this holds true, and probably will. I dont see any other option than Ngata at Number 8.. PERSONALLY, I would love to see us solidy DT in FA and take vernon davis with that pick. He's another Antonio Gates and could make life a lot better on the offense, ESPECIALY if Moulds leaves..

Kiper is not very high on Winston Justice anymore, said detroit at 9 thats too high to take him.. and there isn't a lot of quality at OL in this year's draft.

So while I think we can get a starting guard in the second round.. I hope we address a DT, LT/RT and a center in FA.. We should have the money to sign two impact guys and someone decent.

Completely agree on Davis. I like us addressing DT in FA.

2 other names that will end up there when all is said and done is Jimmy Williams CB, and Mathias Kiwanuka DE.

Kiwi had a bad senior bowl but I bet he rebounds in the combine.

Davis is a freak and would give this team a TE they have never had. He can make a monsterous difference for a young QB like JP on the underneath route.

[Crisis]

I hope Huff or Brick falls.

[patmoran2006]

Vernon Davis WILL be there.. I hope to God we take him if Brick is gone (which he will be)... At number eight, we need IMPACT, not solid contributor. Ngata is a "solid contributor" i want a GAME changer on offense.

d coordinators will have nightmares gameplanning for Davis.. You wanna blitz? Your giving Evans , Davis AND possibly moulds single coverage.. someone's gonna get burned

[tantra]

I agree wholeheartedly, that we take some body who will make a big impact with his presence as a rookie, and i think Vernon Davis gives us that chance.

Our immediate needs this year are both the O & D line followed by a solid skilled tight end who can both block, pick up blitzes and ultimately possesses solid pass catching abilities in the short to mid to intermediate range of the field. Vernon Davis has all those qualities and thus can make an immediate impact for us especially for a young developing QB like Losman, who will need a solid pass catcher for the short routes to help him out when the receivers are covered to help him keep drives alive and also help him get into any sort of a rhythm and force opposing defences to stay honest.

While others may contend that we already have Kevin Everett, we have to admit he hasn't proven us anything yet, and in case Everett shines thru in his sophomore year (which i dearly hope for) in the League, then we can rest assure ourselves that we have two solid young stud TEs and wont have to worrry about position that in the near future.

Its always known that rookie Defensive Tackles (DT) and Guards take time to develop and thus it would be preferable that the Bills signs a free agent DT, while above average Guards will be available in the second round for us. Thus i agree with Pat's contention that Ngata will not give us the immediate impact that we need and that instead we sign a Free Agent Tackle.

[T-Long]

what do you mean we have to "admit" he hasnt proven anything yet? The guy got hurt before the season. He hasn't had the CHANCE to prove it yet. I say we give Everett at least a damn chance before we start to write the guy off. Also, we don't have a need at TE right now. This isn't TD running the show anymore taking the Best Player Available philosophy. We have needs on the OL and DL. If Brick isnt there, we have to go with the defensive side and take either Ngata or Kiwi. Plain and simple.

[Night Train]

I agree with the above comments concerning Vernon Davis. His impact on this team could be huge.

As I stated in another thread, the Cover 2 D the Bills wish to run calls for 1 Gap DT's with the ability to apply pressure. Not 2 Gap cloggers like Ted Washington, Grady Jackson or Ngata.

Mario Williams probably won't fall to #8, so we are looking at either the Safety Michael Huff of Texas or TE Vernon Davis of Maryland.

I think Milloy and Vincent could both be on shaky ground with a Cover 2 future. Jim Leonard might actually thrive in this D, since he played a deep Safety at Wisconson and came up with 22 INT's reading the QB and closing fast. Huff would be strongly considered, if available.

Davis could have the impact of a Gonzales or Gates. Outside of the unknown rehabbing Everett, our other 3 TE's are a waste of space.

Lots of interesting moves coming about at OBD. I wouldn't put too much stock in these outside mock drafts, who don't even know what the Bills are doing on Offense and Defense.

[Saratoga Slim]

I don't want a TE in the first round unless we have made some SERIOUS additions to the OL and DL in free agency.

[gr8slayer]

Vernon Davis WILL be there.. I hope to God we take him if Brick is gone (which he will be)... At number eight, we need IMPACT, not solid contributor. Ngata is a "solid contributor" i want a GAME changer on offense.

d coordinators will have nightmares gameplanning for Davis.. You wanna blitz? Your giving Evans , Davis AND possibly moulds single coverage.. someone's gonna get burned
Vernon Davis......... Is that the freak from Maryland?

[LifetimeBillsFan]

....
As I stated in another thread, the Cover 2 D the Bills wish to run calls for 1 Gap DT's with the ability to apply pressure. Not 2 Gap cloggers like Ted Washington, Grady Jackson or Ngata.

Mario Williams probably won't fall to #8, so we are looking at either the Safety Michael Huff of Texas or TE Vernon Davis of Maryland.

I think Milloy and Vincent could both be on shaky ground with a Cover 2 future. Jim Leonard might actually thrive in this D, since he played a deep Safety at Wisconson and came up with 22 INT's reading the QB and closing fast. Huff would be strongly considered, if available.

Davis could have the impact of a Gonzales or Gates. Outside of the unknown rehabbing Everett, our other 3 TE's are a waste of space.

Lots of interesting moves coming about at OBD. I wouldn't put too much stock in these outside mock drafts, who don't even know what the Bills are doing on Offense and Defense.

I totally agree with you on Leonard. Seems to me that the Bills had a couple of similar guys, named Kelso and Schulz, who did pretty well for the Bills when Levy was coaching. Leonard reminded me a lot of Kelso when he was at Wisconsin because of his nose for the ball. The only question is his speed.

I also agree that it is likely that Mario Williams will be gone before the Bills pick. I don't know about Huff--he may or may not be there depending on what the Raiders do because they really need a safety desperately.

The problem the Bills have is that their DTs are not able to stop the run--which is going to be a major priority for Marv Levy and Dick Jauron. If Sam Adams doesn't have to worry about run responsibilities, he still is capable of putting pressure on the passer and Ron Edwards, prior to his injury, showed some ability in that regard, too. At worst, Ngata, who some have compared to Richard Seymour, will give the Bills a big run-stuffer, if he comes even close to those comparisons, he develops into Booger McFarland. I think the Bills will take a very long look at him at the Combine.

I do agree that what we're all doing--especially a lot of the outside mock drafts--is pure blind speculation. We don't really have any idea what direction the folks at OBD have decided to go in and I'm not even sure that they have finished evaluating the talent that they have on hand yet--which is something that they have to do before they can decide who they need to get and who they have to replace. Both Levy and Jauron have said that they weren't familiar with a lot of the Bills' personnel when they got their jobs and that means that they have a lot of tape to study to bring themselves up to speed in that area. And, with all of the time they have had to spend on assembling a coaching staff in the last couple of weeks, I doubt that they have been able to finish just going through all of the tapes.



I don't want a TE in the first round unless we have made some SERIOUS additions to the OL and DL in free agency.

I agree. While a lot of people agree that Davis is going to be special, the Bills have much bigger needs than at TE where Everett was brought in because of his athleticism and Euhus, who has been underused as a receiver, has shown that he can catch the ball. The primary role of the TE is still as a blocker in most offenses--Campbell is not flashy as a receiver, but he is a pretty good blocking TE. If Fairchild runs some version of the offense they had in St.Louis with the Rams, the TE is not used much as a receiver--they bring in an extra wideout for that--so you really don't need a TE who is an exceptional receiver. At this point, with the needs the Bills have on both of their lines, bringing in a guy like Davis, when they may already have the people that they need to perform the tasks that they want their TEs to perform already on the roster, would be ignoring their most glaring needs to add a luxury. And, we've seen in Detroit what the result of doing that can be.



Vernon Davis......... Is that the freak from Maryland?

Yes.

This draft is loaded with some unusual talent at the TE position--good thing too because the WRs are weak. Pope from Georgia is also an outstanding physical specimen, although not as consistent a receiver as Davis. And, there are others as well.

[Jan Reimers]

I don't want a TE in the first round unless we have made some SERIOUS additions to the OL and DL in free agency.
Amen. We already have a highly regarded TE in Kevin Everett. I would like to see what he can do before drafting someone else at the same position.

Drafting skill player after skill player while ignoring the O and D lines was one of TD's major shortcomings. I'd like to see us get out of that mode.

[justasportsfan]

We don't need anymore TE's. Fix the more important needs of the team. Neither SD, Giants or KC have done much even though the have the top TE's in the league. If we draft a TE, he's gonna end up having to block again. If we build a solid OL we have enough TE's that can catch when they are not blocking.

[patmoran2006]

I'm not saying TE is more important than the line.

I am saying.. ADRESS the line in FREE AGENCY with VETERANS, and draft a stud like Vernon Davis.. I have NOTHING against EVerett.. He has potential.. From all reports, in fact i heard this quote more than once.

"vernon davis is a FASTER Shannon Sharpe." I will take that anyday of the week, I dont care what round or how high we pick.. Buffalo has NEVER enjoyed a dominating game-breaking TE.. and if Everett fits that bill, then why did 31 teams pass on him TWICE dropping him to round three?

[Saratoga Slim]

I'm not saying TE is more important than the line.

I am saying.. ADRESS the line in FREE AGENCY with VETERANS, and draft a stud like Vernon Davis.. I have NOTHING against EVerett.. He has potential.. From all reports, in fact i heard this quote more than once.

"vernon davis is a FASTER Shannon Sharpe." I will take that anyday of the week, I dont care what round or how high we pick.. Buffalo has NEVER enjoyed a dominating game-breaking TE.. and if Everett fits that bill, then why did 31 teams pass on him TWICE dropping him to round three?

if we address the DL in free-agency, then maybe. The Brick is likely gone by #8, and there is no other offensive lineman worth the 8 spot, so at 8 we're not going to pick an offensive lineman. We can get a top guard/center or a good Tackle prospect in the 2nd and 3rd. I'd still rather see AJ Hawk or maybe Huff, though my verdict is out on Huff.

[Saratoga Slim]

I'm not at all knocking Davis, I'm just not into the "best player available" game this year with our first pick. I want to see the holes filled and I think we have bigger holes than TE.

[Bill Brasky]

the jets need all the help they can get.

they could draft any position and pretty much have an upgrade.

[gr8slayer]

Man a player like Vernon Davis would open up the Offense and give our franchise player another guy to throw the ball to.

[ublinkwescore]

Vernon Davis WILL be there.. I hope to God we take him if Brick is gone (which he will be)... At number eight, we need IMPACT, not solid contributor. Ngata is a "solid contributor" i want a GAME changer on offense.

d coordinators will have nightmares gameplanning for Davis.. You wanna blitz? Your giving Evans , Davis AND possibly moulds single coverage.. someone's gonna get burned

You know, for the longest time, I was so against this move, but you do make a very interesting point - we do need impact (but it can also be argued that we do have impact players at our skill positions, but that it doesn't show due to our poorly built lines), and we do have FA to go through still, and if we cut the deadbeats like Mike Williams (I honestly wouldn't keep this guy unless it was on a vet minimum contract), he's not playing anywhere near as good as we're paying him, and Jeff Posey's in the same boat with the emergence of Crowell. Clements can walk as well - I think McGee is ready, and someone else is ready to step into McGee's former shoes as the up-and-coming #2 CB on our team. Up til now, all I have been hearing about is how deep this draft is with OL talent - now suddenly it's not? what have I missed?

I think we worry about a little of both lines in the FA because we can't wait on rookies to develop on one side of the ball, while the other side is *****ing because they want to win now and don't want to wait on the rookies to develop - I say we get a good guard in the FA, and then draft one in the second or 3rd. Draft (maybe now) Vernon Davis (if Mario Williams is gone by #8) since a lot of people on here are totally convinced that he's gonna be an impact player. I wanna see some Shockey-like agressiveness in him (more likely to charge you and try to break the tackle than to dodge you) with more stats (like TDs and bigger recieving yards #s) though if we do in fact take Davis.

We need at least one DT though and I hope that's through FA - I find it rather impossible for this team to really draft a gamechanging DE with Mario Williams likely gone - but if Williams is there, I think we have no choice but to grab him, or trade down and try to grab another 2nd rounder in addition to a later first.

[The_Philster]

Our needs on both lines are too dire to ignore them in favor of a flashy player...we're out of the Donahoe regime now...we shouldn't forget that

[Throne Logic]

Our needs on both lines are too dire to ignore them in favor of a flashy player...we're out of the Donahoe regime now...we shouldn't forget that

Very true. If this comes up, I hope Levy trades down, rather than draft another skill player at #8.

Maybe even a trade for a veteran lineman in exchange for the #8?

[chubluv]

No Te or WR in the first few rounds unless we do something else that makes it a need. ie Trades or FA.

[gr8slayer]

No Te or WR in the first few rounds unless we do something else that makes it a need. ie Trades or FA.
A TE could go a long way for us. Vernon Davis would be my top pick.

[mysticsoto]

A TE could go a long way for us. Vernon Davis would be my top pick.

A TE will do absolutely nothing for us until we sure up that O-line. Bringing in Bentley would be a big step so that we can have a solid Center. Our tackles are fine and I suspect Villarial will remain at RG. Our only open position will then be LG...and there are some big questions for our front office to answer! Do they keep MW and hope he can make the transition along w/a pay cut? Do they just cut him and Bennie Anderson and go to FA? Do they draft into the position a top OG? Do they keep Bennie Anderson as a backup? Who will our other Oline backups be?

Even if these were all addressed AND our D-line was addressed w/Grady Jackson or a Ted Washington type player to play alongside Sam Adams, the Safety position would probably be most important next with Michael Huff being a top candidate! I pretty much can guarantee that we will NOT be choosing a TE with our 1st pick!

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Man a player like Vernon Davis would open up the Offense and give our franchise player another guy to throw the ball to.

Your franchise player, QB, can't throw the ball consistently to anybody if he's laying on his back after being sacked or buried under a wall of defensive linemen! If nothing else, the last few years should have taught all of us that much!

And it doesn't matter how good your play-making TE is, if you have to keep him in to help your offensive line pass block all of the time--Daniel Graham is a play-making TE that a lot of Bills fans would love to have--but, even with the Pats, the last two years Graham has not been a dominant player because they have had to keep him in to help their offensive linemen so much due to injuries (Watson played a lot in two TE sets and even as a slot receiver with Graham also on the field, so he's a different story).

The Bills don't even know how good their TEs can be because they haven't had the luxury of using them consistently in their passing game the last few years because their offensive line has been so bad. Drafting Vernon Davis without first making a major improvement to their offensive line, at this point, would be a waste because Davis would end up having to spend most of his time doing the thing that is the weakest part of his game--blocking--which is something that the Bills already have an accomplished veteran in Campbell to do (Campbell's not much of a pass receiver, but he can block).

I agree with mysticsoto--the Bills need to upgrade their offensive and defensive lines first. And, realistically, that may not be as easy to do solely in free agency as a lot of people seem to think: even when you get the salary cap issues and personnel decisions out of the way, there is still the matter of convincing the players that you want to come to your team and there's no guarantee that that will happen with all of them, even if the Bills make a good, competitive offer, because in some cases other teams will offer more than the Bills can afford because they have targeted that player specifically as a key, and in other cases because, even with the money being equal, the player may choose to go elsewhere for other/personal reasons. Just saying that we should sign X, Y, and Z as free agents so that we can do A, B, C in the draft does not make it so--it is a lot easier said than done.

As I see it, it would take having too many things happen that are not likely to all happen for the Bills to be able to afford the luxury of drafting a TE--regardless of his talent--like Davis in this year's draft. They simply have too many holes to fill and too many variables to overcome at this point for that to be a viable option.