$2.75 million per touchdown, or $13,480 per yard....

[OpIv37]

That's what a TD and a yard cost against the cap at $11 million for Eric Moulds.

Does anyone else get the feeling that it's just a little above the going rate?

If Moulds doesn't restructure, he needs to go.

[G. Host]

It is not a tad above the going rate on teams with terrible offenses and that is the kind of team he was on. And Moulds will not be getting $11M - that is the Cap Hit which is different because earlier years when he took smaller salaries bonus was mostly what he got.

[OpIv37]

I said that's what it would cost AGAINST THE CAP. Please don't become one of those people who criticize a post without bothering to read the whole thing first.

[G. Host]

I did read it but saying against the cap does not mean anything.

It is like saying Moulds is a great deal because otherwise we will be paying $6,333,332 for 0 TDs and 0 yards. It is nonsense to judge that way IMO and those other figures are MUCH better.

[OpIv37]

I did read it but saying against the cap does not mean anything.

It is like saying Moulds is a great deal because otherwise we will be paying $6,333,332 for 0 TDs and 0 yards. It is nonsense to judge that way IMO and those other figures are MUCH better.

I don't buy it. That still saves us $5 million, which can easily get a receiver that will put up 4 TDs and 816 yards with plenty left over.

[G. Host]

A WR is not just TDs and yards - it is blocking, taking best CBs away from play, etc. I think they will extend and blend if they can but until deal is signed who knows. Moulds understands the difference between staying on one team or doing a burnout like Peeless.

Besides supposedly last year's results were due to coaching and coaching changed. Hopefully QBs will be more effective at THROWING the ball and RB will be more effecrive at RUNNING and OL better at BLOCKING hence WR will be better at CATCHING.

[kgun12]

I think it's way to early to worry about how much per catch or his cap figure or anything else when it comes to Moulds. If you read the artilce in the paper it said that the Bills haven't even talked to him. There is ALOT to get settled here. Does Eric want to play here, is he willing to work with J.P. if he is named the started, how much of a pay cut is he willing to take, is it worth restructuring him again at his age, can we fill his spot with someone else at alot less money, and probably something I'm forgetting. We will just have to wait to see how this all plays out.

[Jan Reimers]

It's simple: If Eric restructures at a level acceptable to the Bills, he'll be back. If not, he's gone.

[The_Philster]

Op..your threads are approaching ICE's level...Marv has already stated they were going to work on a restructuring of Eric's contract :rolleyes:

[ddaryl]

I don't buy it. That still saves us $5 million, which can easily get a receiver that will put up 4 TDs and 816 yards with plenty left over.


But is it enough to get a WR capable fo getting 4 TD's and 816 yards on the Bills pitiful offense ??

EM's ability may be the sole reason his numbers were as good as they were. A lesser WR would of gained considerably less.

EM needs ot restructure, but don't believe for a minute there is a worthwhile replacement readily available that makes more sense then adding FA OL and DL

[mybills]

It's simple: If Eric restructures at a level acceptable to the Bills, he'll be back. If not, he's gone.
Exactly!

Hey, I thought you quit! :snicker:

[Stewie]

Another perfect example of a meaningless statistic.

Here's another statistic that has just as much meaning.

Infinity = the number of dollars the Bills have spent per super bowl victories.

Does that mean you cut your best or second best receiver?

[ICE74129]

It is not a tad above the going rate on teams with terrible offenses and that is the kind of team he was on. And Moulds will not be getting $11M - that is the Cap Hit which is different because earlier years when he took smaller salaries bonus was mostly what he got.

Moulds is going on 33 and well on the downside of his career. He is about a 3-4 mill per WR, not a base of 7 and a cap of 11.

the problem is restructuring him puts us in cap problems later on.

[kgun12]

It's simple: If Eric restructures at a level acceptable to the Bills, he'll be back. If not, he's gone.

I don't think it's that simple! If after they talk and he is unwilling to support J.P. then I think there is a chance he is gone. The other thing is what Ice said if we restructure him it just adds to the cap problem later. I would love to see Eric back, but if he is going to be a problem in the locker room or cause the team cap problems later, maybe it's time to cut losses. This team is a couple of years away from being a contender again and we don't want to get caught in cap hell again by redoing contracts on older players. That what got us in trouble under J. Butler and we have been paying for it ever since! I would rather eat his dead cap this year, it still gives us more towards the cap and we could use that money to make a serious run at a couple of elite linemen.

[ICE74129]

Op..your threads are approaching ICE's level :rolleyes:

Good! It will be nice to have more people with a clue to talk football with.

[capitolneal]

Waive him take the dead cap now and be done as GREAT as he was he is a shell of his former self IMO just be done turn the page and get another possesion reciever he doesn't stretch the field like he used to hell there are PLENTY of Poss. Recievers out there

[ICE74129]

It's simple: If Eric restructures at a level acceptable to the Bills, he'll be back. If not, he's gone.

Really. he tells marv and DJ 'I will play for 1 mill per year but JP can never play a down for us again. I won't play for him' then what?

No, it isn't that simple. He was suspended for being an ass last year. he also doesn't give nearly 100% when JP is in there. This is an issue that above the money issue, needs to be resolved.

[ICE74129]

Waive him take the dead cap now and be done as GREAT as he was he is a shell of his former self IMO just be done turn the page and get another possesion reciever he doesn't stretch the field like he used to hell there are PLENTY of Poss. Recievers out there

I say trade him.

[justasportsfan]

No, it isn't that simple. He was suspended for being an ass last year.

Lucky for you that fuggin moron for a HC who is now your OC (I can't wait to face you clowns 2X per year now :roflmao: ) had his typical brain meltdown and called off the dogs .


So who's at fault here Moolarkey or Moulds? :idunno:

[Saratoga Slim]

I bet part of the reason Moulds was so pissy about the QB play this year is he suspected that he was going to be cut for cap reasons in the offseason and would be looking for a new contract from another team. Big stats this past year would have meant proof that he can still play at a top level and a guarantee of solid money on the FA market. Big stats might have also made it tougher for the Bills to dump his current large contract. Thus he probably saw the lack of passing game affecting his bank account, whether with the Bills or a new team.

Either way, still a pretty selfish reason for acting like a baby.

[OpIv37]

You Moulds supporters are forgetting two things:

1. Moulds' decline started after he had that injury a few years ago. And it's not just stats. He ALWAYS used to make the first man miss, now he NEVER does. That has nothing to do with JP or coaching or poor offensive play- it's a very obvious decline in skills.

2. He's become a locker room cancer. Not quite TO or Moss level, but he's a distraction and bad for the team off the field. Throw in mediocre numbers, and tell me again why he's worth $11 million?

[The_Philster]

Op..put ICE on ignore..please..locker room cancer? Give me a break

[Mr. Cynical]

I agree Op....at this point it just makes more sense to cut him loose.


He is getting elite #1 WR money and he is at best a solid #2 at this point in his career. He could take a cut, sure, but unless it was a huge one, e.g., 50%, then it's not worth keeping him. I would rather spend that money on a younger #2 who is going to be around when the Bills make a real run.
He has been here for his entire career and only won one playoff game. I don't care how much of a trooper the guy is, that will cause major frustration for anybody. He knows he only has a couple of years left and deep down he knows that he is not going to the dance as a Bill. This team is at least 2-3 years away from that AT BEST. He will be retired, injured or a backup by then. So while he isn't a TO by any means, he will still be easier to piss off, e.g., as with JP early in the season and the benching. I don't blame him per se (every man has his limit) but I also dont want the risk of it happening again.
He is going to be even more prone to injury given his age. Biological fact. Again, I don't want to count on him down the stretch only to see him sit because of reinjuring the groin or something else. Granted there are no guarantees with injuries at any age, but the probability gets higher with older players.I like Emo and wish him well but IMO we should be looking for a #2 that will be here in the long run.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Who knows... If he doesn't developed a severe case of alligator arms like he did last year, it may only cost $2M/TD and $12,500/yard.

[OpIv37]

Op..put ICE on ignore..please..locker room cancer? Give me a break

um, I don't know why you keep mentioning Ice- I've been saying we need to think about getting rid of Moulds ever since I heard his cap number a few months ago (read: before Ice started posting).

Moulds was a huge problem for this team this year. You know the younger guys like McGahee were following his lead, and it was that plus Mularkey's incompetent coaching that created a lot of the off-the-field problems this year.

[The_Philster]

I never heard anyone start to compare Moulds to TO before ICE starting posting. As far as Moulds goes, he and JP settled whatever differences they had during the season...unless Moulds was lying on his show

[OpIv37]

I never heard anyone start to compare Moulds to TO before ICE starting posting. As far as Moulds goes, he and JP settled whatever differences they had during the season...unless Moulds was lying on his show

settled it NOW- too late for 05. Any guy who's gonna cause that many problems because he can't get his personal stats isn't worth league minimum.

[The_Philster]

settled it NOW- too late for 05. Any guy who's gonna cause that many problems because he can't get his personal stats isn't worth league minimum.
:rolleyes: The show doesn't air in the offseason, Op...it was settled during the 2005 season

[Yasgur's Farm]

Yup... It was settled! EMo told coach to bench JP the remainder of the season and he'd play... SETTLED!

[The_Philster]

Yup... It was settled! EMo told coach to bench JP the remainder of the season and he'd play... SETTLED!
I take it you don't watch the show

[OpIv37]

:rolleyes: The show doesn't air in the offseason, Op...it was settled during the 2005 season

apparently you didn't see LA Playa's thread about the team's interaction in SD.... Moulds ignored JP on the bench. Yeah, seems really settled.

Even if they did settle it during the season, it was too late- the damage was done.

[The_Philster]

apparently you didn't see LA Playa's thread about the team's interaction in SD.... Moulds ignored JP on the bench. Yeah, seems really settled.
Yeah, I saw it...I remember the season going on past that, however but hey, if you wanna call Moulds a liar, that's your prerogative :peace:

[Yasgur's Farm]

apparently you didn't see LA Playa's thread about the team's interaction in SD.... Moulds ignored JP on the bench. Yeah, seems really settled.

Even if they did settle it during the season, it was too late- the damage was done.I just don't believe a word he says after he took himself out of the fins game and tried to blame it on the trainer.

[Drive 4 Five]

Moulds a solid #2? Hardly. Moulds is still a very capable receiver. Pair him up with a QB like Tom Brady and I guarantee the only comparisons with Owens will be in the numbers category.

I was actually a huge supporter of Moulds returning to the Bills but with all the needs this team has, the money we can save by releasing him now, and the fact that he will never play second fiddle to Lee Evans makes this an easy decision as far as I am concerned.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I bet part of the reason Moulds was so pissy about the QB play this year is he suspected that he was going to be cut for cap reasons in the offseason and would be looking for a new contract from another team. Big stats this past year would have meant proof that he can still play at a top level and a guarantee of solid money on the FA market. Big stats might have also made it tougher for the Bills to dump his current large contract. Thus he probably saw the lack of passing game affecting his bank account, whether with the Bills or a new team.

Either way, still a pretty selfish reason for acting like a baby.

I absolutely believe that this was the case. I also agree with OP and Mr Cynical on this one (Oh, God! That's probably a first!) as well.

I can understand the desire to keep Moulds because he is a big target and, other than Aiken (who has proven that he isn't reliable enough to get the job done as a starter), the Bills don't have another big WR that they can put opposite their smaller other receivers. However, for all of the things that Moulds can give to the Bills, the cost of keeping him, which will only rise as he gets older and his skills further decline, is prohibitive.

I was extremely critical of Moulds for undermining JP Losman publicly last season and I still think he was dead-wrong and hurt the team in doing that. But, Moulds was not alone--he could not have made his statements stand up if he did not have the tacit, silent support of others on the team. Still, I don't think that he and the others who agreed with him will be able to get away with what they pulled last season with Marv Levy as the GM: Levy is a HOF coach who has the owner's full backing (R.Wilson hired Levy's choice for HC over his own!) and, as a result, it will be extremely difficult for anyone on the team to question any of the decisions that Levy and Jauron make without looking stupid and being abandoned by his teammates. Moulds may be selfish, but I don't think he is that stupid. So, if the Bills were to re-structure Moulds' contract, I don't think he would be as big of a lockerroom cancer as he was last season. But, that being said, I just can't see how it would be worth it to keep Moulds from a financial/performance standpoint--at best the Bills would get value for their money for only 1-2 years and then they would be paying an incredibly high price for minimal, if any production, thereafter. IMHO it is better to let him go now.