Circumstances that could lead Bills to Draft Day Shocker.

[patmoran2006]

Circumstances Could Lead Bills To Draft Day Shocker * Fox Sports (http://blogs.foxsports.com/patmoran2006/2006/02/17/Circumstances_Could_Lead_Bills_To_Draft_Day_Shocker)

I'm already bracing myself for the barrage of "are you nuts" comments.

[feelthepain]

Hmmmm trade down, get more pics...wow sounds exactly like I've been saying. The Bills don't have the luxury of staying at 8.

[Tatonka]

i would not be against a trade down and TE.. but a TE at 8 would be suicide.

[dolphinssuck]

i would not be against a trade down and TE.. but a TE at 8 would be suicide.especially since we are not in bad need of a TE. It would be a waste of a selection which we could get a needed linemen.

[Tatonka]

it will depend on everett.. we know nothing about him, but he is a fast wr type too..

[Bmax]

Won't happen..Marv knows the bills lack talent on the fron line and front seven on def. I could see them drafting a TE but not at 8....

Klopstein from Colorado http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/te/joeklopfenstein.html
Fasano from ND http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/te/anthonyfasano.html
Day-from Oregon
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/te/timday.html

I also like Byrd from Usc

I'm not looking for us to spend a #1 on a skill postion player.. With Everett already on the roster we should look for another solid player to help with the pass and run game. If we are thinking Te after Campbell is cut . Let's wait at least to the 3 or 4th round.....Let's get our Def strong first. Then the OFF line ...

Hey we still might need a MLb Fletcher ain't getting any younger.. We are Just going to have to wait for te in this year draft.. I guess ,maybe we should just go the free agent route ? Just a thought....


Bmax

[Forward_Lateral]

If the Bills draft a TE in the first round, I'll hang myself.

[Billsrock4life]

If the Bills draft a TE in the first round, I'll hang myself.

lol......

[Tatonka]

If the Bills draft a TE in the first round, I'll hang myself.

:pray:

[jdbillsfan]

I would be ok with V. Davis at 8, if Ngata was the only one left at 8 after the big 7. Not that Ngata would be the worst pick, I just wouldn't mind V. Davis there.

Its hard to speculate trades. I would be fine with a trade down also, but as it stands now, we have the 8th pick.

The top 7 in my opinion are... Bush, Leinhart, Young, Mario, Brick, AJ, Huff.

V. Davis seems like he would have more of an impact than most players left at 8.

[TigerJ]

If the top players at a need position for the Bills are gone, and the super studs Mario Williams and AJ Hawk are history by the time the Bills are on the clock, and Atlanta wants to trade up, I'd be very happy to trade down. I think Buffalo would have a lot more options at 15. There would be other (besides D'Brickashaw Ferguson) OTs who wouldn't be near the reach at 15 as they would be at 8. The same with DTs. I assume Buffalo would get another 2nd round pick out of it. The draft value chart suggests Atlanta's first and second round picks would be close in value to Buffalo's first and fourth round picks.

[mysticsoto]

As I posted before from what I heard in WGR and what I saw on the NFL Network, the Jets are looking more and more like they will be drafting a QB. If that's the case, Brick going in the top 5 may be in question (depending on what Houston does) and it would not be totally out of the question for us to get him. The odds might be low, but it could happen. The Jets wanting a QB now is GREAT news for us!!!

Oh, and I disagreee with PatMoran2006 about Gandy. Gandy wasn't elite, but he wasn't terrible either and has also played Guard. It is possible that he could move to LG.

[Tatonka]

mysticsoto, you really need to STOP TALKING ABOUT GANDY PLAYING GUARD!!!

what indication do you have that he could do it? he sucked at guard in chicago.. and he was a tackle in college.

gandy is not, and should not be a guard on our line or any other line ever.. end of story. geesh.

[ICE74129]

Circumstances Could Lead Bills To Draft Day Shocker * Fox Sports (http://blogs.foxsports.com/patmoran2006/2006/02/17/Circumstances_Could_Lead_Bills_To_Draft_Day_Shocker)

I'm already bracing myself for the barrage of "are you nuts" comments.

If we trade down I definatly see TE as a pick. Marv and DJ understand the same thing Jim Kelly said all year watching this team....We need a GOOD TE and we don't have one. Campbell etal are BACKUPS in this league. There are 3 Starting/Impact caliber TE's in this draft and I hope we get one.

I would like to hear that we got ahold of denver and traded #8 and Moulds to them for both of their firsts.

[ICE74129]

especially since we are not in bad need of a TE. It would be a waste of a selection which we could get a needed linemen.

TE IS A NEED! Did you ever catch Jim Kellys monday talks on WGR I believe? We dont' have a real TE on this roster. A good TE Is vital!

[Bill Brasky]

especially since we are not in bad need of a TE.
what are you talking about? not having a TE is a big reason why JP sucked last year.

on the other hand, the Bills have Everett, so drafting a TE would be pointless, but still, I wouldn't say that Buffalo isn't in need of TE.

this article makes little sense to me.

[dolphinssuck]

what are you talking about? not having a TE is a big reason why JP sucked last year.

on the other hand, the Bills have Everett, so drafting a TE would be pointless, but still, I wouldn't say that Buffalo isn't in need of TE.

this article makes little sense to me.What I mean is we need help on our line more than at TE. If we get a TE later on fine but we need to focus on the OL in the early round IMO. Last season the OL killed both QBS and yes the TE was one reason but not the main reason IMO.

[Tatonka]

it is a shame that most people have given up on everett before he even played a single down.. the guy could turn out to be a great player.. we have no idea.

but if we draft a te early, then i will assume that DJ and ML have looked at everett and didnt like the way he is healing or what kind of player he could be..

i dont care about the fact that everett is a third round pick, not a first round pick.. he was a good receiving te that drew comparisons to kellen winslow when he was drafted.

who knows.. maybe we will draft a te like davis and then everett will return to form, so then we will have two good deep threats at TE to go with evans and moulds (i think he will be staying).

[ChristopherWalken]

I think that he could be a significant threat in the passing game, but he's was never known for his blocking abilities.

[Tatonka]

well campbell is a great blocker.. if you are looking for a blocking te, then just dont let campbell go..

[Tatonka]

to further that point.. how many great receiving TEs are great blockers? few to none.

gates is not a good blocker.. shockey is willing, but not considered a great blocker.. same with gonzo and crumpler.. cooley is a good blocker, but not as good a receiver (deep threat) as the others..

i mean really .. most receiving type tight ends just are not good blockers.. shannon sharpe was one of the most recent that i can think of that was great at everything.. no wonder he is a hall of famer.

[patmoran2006]

I'm not saying TE is a NUMBER one need and we should take DAvis or Lewis no matter what.

I'm SUGGESTING we solidify some line problems BEFORE the draft to put us in position to take a shot at a potential Shannon Sharpe for an offense that's ALWAYS lacked a threat at the tight end spot.

Keep in mind I did say move down to 15, I am SURE Atlanta is going to try and get into top 10-11 picks to get either Huff or Jimmy Williams.. That would give us a pair of second rounders.

Potential Suggestion
Offensive Line
Locked in: Peters, Villarrial, Preston
Sign via FA: Starting LT (Target Backus)
Draft Early Rd 2: LG (Joseph or Spencer, one will be there)

Defense line:
Locked in: Schobel and Kelsay
Bring Back/Dont cut: Adams (he's not done yet)
DRaft: Round 2 pick, best DT on the board, and he'll compete/rotate with Ron Edwards.

Round 3 Picks
Best Safety and DE on the board for depth.

[ICE74129]

to further that point.. how many great receiving TEs are great blockers? few to none.

gates is not a good blocker.. shockey is willing, but not considered a great blocker.. same with gonzo and crumpler.. cooley is a good blocker, but not as good a receiver (deep threat) as the others..

i mean really .. most receiving type tight ends just are not good blockers.. shannon sharpe was one of the most recent that i can think of that was great at everything.. no wonder he is a hall of famer.

Agreed. And more and more teams want the recieving threat in the middle. I hope Buffalo goes that route.

[ChristopherWalken]

to further that point.. how many great receiving TEs are great blockers? few to none.

gates is not a good blocker.. shockey is willing, but not considered a great blocker.. same with gonzo and crumpler.. cooley is a good blocker, but not as good a receiver (deep threat) as the others..

i mean really .. most receiving type tight ends just are not good blockers.. shannon sharpe was one of the most recent that i can think of that was great at everything.. no wonder he is a hall of famer.

I have to disagree. Crumpler, Gonzales and Gates all fill the blocking roll very well. These guys are a huge part of why each of their teams works the run so well.

A good example of a TE that is not such a great blocker would be Todd Heap.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I would not be pissed if we traded down and selected Davis. I would give us more picks and Davis is amazing. We really do need a TE. I know we did draft Everitt but who knows about him and it really wouldn't hurt to have 2 solid TE's(ie NE). We could still address our OL and DL with other picks and Free Agency.

[THATHURMANATOR]

From what I have read Davis set all the weightlifting records at Virginia.

[YardRat]

what are you talking about? not having a TE is a big reason why JP sucked last year.

:rofl:

JP not being able to see, or throw to, the TE last year is a big reason some see the position as needing help.

Campbell and Co. will be fine in '06...we need big guys on both lines and trading down may be the most effective way to accomplish it.

[patmoran2006]

Campbell is getting cut, I can promise you that.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Campbell and Co. are Below average. The position needs upgrading. If Everitt comes back and is good fine but that is a big if right now.

[kgun12]

I will go on record right now and say



WE WILL NOT DRAFT A TE IN THE FIRST ROUND!!!

[TedMock]

From what I have read Davis set all the weightlifting records at Virginia.

Bite your lip, demon child! Davis is a MARYLAND TERRAPIN!!!!! Yes, he is an absolute beast in the weight room, and an amazing receiver. He has a nasty streak to be a good blocker, but his technique causes him to struggle. Heath Miller is now with the Steelers, was a UVA guy last year, and he could catch and block very well. He not nearly as athletic as Davis though.

[mysticsoto]

mysticsoto, you really need to STOP TALKING ABOUT GANDY PLAYING GUARD!!!

what indication do you have that he could do it? he sucked at guard in chicago.. and he was a tackle in college.

gandy is not, and should not be a guard on our line or any other line ever.. end of story. geesh.

What indications do I have? That McNally has called him the fasted Olineman we have!!! That he was hurt in Chicago and has made a full recovery now and played decent last year under McNally - certainly no worse than Jennings played with us. That he has a nice decent size at 6'4" and 310 lbs.

If we don't get a monster like Brick, quite frankly, my preference is to switch Gandy and Peters and have Peters play LT...but other than that, I'm apparently one of the few that thought Gandy played well last year in a horrible year with poor mgmt allowing a QB carousel, and an interior line that was an open door all season!!!

[DaBills]

Looking back, a draft day shocker would’ve been if Mike Williams had ended up playing like Orlando Pace.

[chubluv]

I wouldnt be against trading down a few spots if the deal was right. I also wouldnt complain if we drafted a TE with our first pick. If those 2 guys are as good as you say they can be then I say go for it. Espec if we get a high 2nd round choice for it. 5 picks that early in the draft should help us solidify both lines and maybe a safety or corner.

[vicmantak]

Come on! This year is loaded by good UFA TEs and Christian Fauria, Matt Shobel, Chris Baker, Casey Fitzsimmons, Brandon Manumaleuna, Roland Williams or Aaron Shea are way better, cheaper and experienced options...
I don't understand why people drown in a "glass of water"...

[Jan Reimers]

I don't understand the Tight End obsession. Our O line is in shambles, our D was one of the 4 worst in the league last year, and some posters want to spend a precious first round pick on a Tight End? Isn't this the kind of thinking that got Tom Donahoe run out of town?

It appears to me that Campbell is a decent all-around player; Euhus a good - but totally underutilized - pass receiver; and we drafted Everett - a fast, athletic, potentially big play guy - in the 3rd round last year. Plus, we haven't used our TEs enough the last few seasons to even get a real handle on their abilities.

Why, given our much more pressing needs and the fact that we drafted a good, young TE last year, would we use a high pick on another one this year?

[kgun12]

I don't understand the Tight End obsession. Our O line is in shambles, our D was one of the 4 worst in the league last year, and some posters want to spend a precious first round pick on a Tight End? Isn't this the kind of thinking that got Tom Donahoe run out of town?

It appears to me that Campbell is a decent all-around player; Euhus a good - but totally underutilized - pass receiver; and we drafted Everett - a fast, athletic, potentially big play guy - in the 3rd round last year. Plus, we haven't used our TEs enough the last few seasons to even get a real handle on their abilities.

Why, given our much more pressing needs and the fact that we drafted a good, young TE last year, would we use a high pick on another one this year?

I agree and say again:


WE WILL NOT DRAFT A TE IN THE FIRST ROUND!!!

[patmoran2006]

Come on! This year is loaded by good UFA TEs and Christian Fauria, Matt Shobel, Chris Baker, Casey Fitzsimmons, Brandon Manumaleuna, Roland Williams or Aaron Shea are way better, cheaper and experienced options...
I don't understand why people drown in a "glass of water"...


They all sound like Mark Campbell types to me. Maybe a little better but nobody who is going to take a game over.

I think the biggest point I was attempting to make is that this franchise has NEVER had a tight end who can change a game by taking a 15 yard pass and going 55 yards for a TD with it, like Gates, Shockey and a couple others can.

I understand that we have to improve on the line first and foremost. With the likelyhood of a young QB (JP) starting, I'd rather have as many veterans on the line as possible (through FA) unless of course Brick magically fell to No. 8 (which won't happen).. I would just love to see JP or even if (ugghhh) Holcomb started, a tight end that's actually a HUGE WEAPON as an option.

And for the record, I think Lewis is going to be the better pro than Davis.

[The_Philster]

What indications do I have? That McNally has called him the fasted Olineman we have!!! That he was hurt in Chicago and has made a full recovery now and played decent last year under McNally - certainly no worse than Jennings played with us. That he has a nice decent size at 6'4" and 310 lbs.

If we don't get a monster like Brick, quite frankly, my preference is to switch Gandy and Peters and have Peters play LT...but other than that, I'm apparently one of the few that thought Gandy played well last year in a horrible year with poor mgmt allowing a QB carousel, and an interior line that was an open door all season!!!
I guess you forgot the fact that when he played G in the past, he sucked...moving a guy out of a position he's playing average to above average in to a position he's awful at is hardly an intelligent move.

[kgun12]

They all sound like Mark Campbell types to me. Maybe a little better but nobody who is going to take a game over.

I think the biggest point I was attempting to make is that this franchise has NEVER had a tight end who can change a game by taking a 15 yard pass and going 55 yards for a TD with it, like Gates, Shockey and a couple others can.

I understand that we have to improve on the line first and foremost. With the likelyhood of a young QB (JP) starting, I'd rather have as many veterans on the line as possible (through FA) unless of course Brick magically fell to No. 8 (which won't happen).. I would just love to see JP or even if (ugghhh) Holcomb started, a tight end that's actually a HUGE WEAPON as an option.

And for the record, I think Lewis is going to be the better pro than Davis.

Even during the Super Bowl years and all of our scoring records we didn't have a great TE, good, but not in the Gates, Gonzales, or Shockley class. I just don't think TE is that important. BTW who were the dominate TE on this years Super Bowl teams? Oh yea there wasn't one.

[madness]

Even during the Super Bowl years and all of our scoring records we didn't have a great TE, good, but not in the Gates, Gonzales, or Shockley class. I just don't think TE is that important. BTW who were the dominate TE on this years Super Bowl teams? Oh yea there wasn't one.

I agree but you're overlooking one major fact. JP as of now, is no Kelly, Ben or Matt. I think having one great pass catching TE would be crucial to JP's development. Someone that is not just a safety valve but an actual option in the passing game. Instead the of waiting (and hoping) for Everett to develop, bring another young gun in to increase the competition at the position. Besides, having two great TE's is not a bad problem to have for a developing QB.

As long as we can still address the other 'need' positions, trading down for Davis or Lewis would be a great idea. I also agree with the author about being a drop off at tackle after Brick. Unless we go D-line with the first pick or Brick drops down, it would be a waste to use that pick on O-line.

Trade down, get Davis or Lewis and still get a quality O-lineman with the extra pick? Sounds like a no-lose situation to me.

[Night Train]

If the Bills draft a TE in the first round, I'll hang myself.

Woohoo ! Git R Done, Marv ! Just kidding...

I would have no problem with selecting a TE high, as along as we took care of other business during March Free Agency and the rest of the draft.

People wish to play the drama queen at any opportunity. I have little doubt that Marv and Co. will work hard to identify holes and improve the roster in an intelligent manner. Where certain people are selected makes no difference, as long as they can contribute.

[Dozerdog]

Before we go off drafting a TE- sit down and map out what kind of offense you will be running.


Do we have the materials to run a wide-open offense? If you want Davis or Lewis, do we have the QB who can get him the ball? Do we have the OL to protect that QB if the answer is yes?

Will either of these guys be useful if we choose the Bears/Steelers type of smash-mouth ball control offense?

Let's face it- we have seen Dick Jauron's style. It's keep the offense basic & simple, try not to make mistakes , play field position, and put the defense in the best possible position to win games.

If anything- look for the Bills to get big & beefy on both sides of the ball. If I were Jauron- I would get a couple of maulers on the O line.

Spend the top pick on defense with whomever is left on the board (Mario Williams/ Hawk/ NGata/ Jimmy Williams), get one of the bigger, nasty guards or tackles with the 2nd pick, and maybe even move Jason Peters back to TE.

I think the Bills will keep Mike Williams one more season, and with him back at RT, put Peters next to him at TE, and just run it right all day long.

Back in the 1970's the Bills lined up an OT named Paul Seymour at TE - and they just shoved it down opponent's throats.

[patmoran2006]

Even during the Super Bowl years and all of our scoring records we didn't have a great TE, good, but not in the Gates, Gonzales, or Shockley class. I just don't think TE is that important. BTW who were the dominate TE on this years Super Bowl teams? Oh yea there wasn't one.

Heath Miller was a big reason why Pitt got to the Super Bowl, did you watch that Denver game? And Jeremy Stevens choked in the Super Bowl but was very valuable to the Hawks' during the season and playoffs.

you don't need a Gates to get a Super Bowl. But considering we may lose MOulds and can't afford anyone his calibar to replace him, I'm all for having a game changing TE

[kgun12]

Heath Miller was a big reason why Pitt got to the Super Bowl, did you watch that Denver game? And Jeremy Stevens choked in the Super Bowl but was very valuable to the Hawks' during the season and playoffs.

you don't need a Gates to get a Super Bowl. But considering we may lose MOulds and can't afford anyone his calibar to replace him, I'm all for having a game changing TE

That's why I said both SB teams had good not great TE. Just like when we drafted McGahee as an 8-8 team (that had more pressing needs) we needed someone who could come right in and contribute the next year. This team has ALOT of whole to fill on both sides of the line and BTW there is NO way we will be able to address them all during the FA period. A TE in the first round is for a team in the cusp (sp) of the playoffs not a team that played as pooly as this team at almost every position.

[vicmantak]

Heath Miller was a big reason why Pitt got to the Super Bowl, did you watch that Denver game? And Jeremy Stevens choked in the Super Bowl but was very valuable to the Hawks' during the season and playoffs.

you don't need a Gates to get a Super Bowl. But considering we may lose MOulds and can't afford anyone his caliber to replace him, I'm all for having a game changing TE
Totally agree. You don't need a Gates to get a SB and the impact of good TEs are not easily recognizable. Many people should digest that TE is the most difficult position to fill in because they are closely involved in any offensive play. It doesn't matter if it's to open holes to the running game or to open free time and space to the passing game.

[kgun12]

Totally agree. You don't need a Gates to get a SB and the impact of good TEs are not easily recognizable. Many people should digest that TE is the most difficult position to fill in because they are closely involved in any offensive play. It doesn't matter if it's to open holes to the running game or to open free time and space to the passing game.

Again I will say That's why I said both SB teams had good not great TE. Just like when we drafted McGahee as an 8-8 team (that had more pressing needs) we needed someone who could come right in and contribute the next year. This team has ALOT of whole to fill on both sides of the line and BTW there is NO way we will be able to address them all during the FA period. A TE in the first round is for a team in the cusp (sp) of the playoffs not a team that played as pooly as this team at almost every position.

[mysticsoto]

I guess you forgot the fact that when he played G in the past, he sucked...moving a guy out of a position he's playing average to above average in to a position he's awful at is hardly an intelligent move.

No I didn't forget. But I also know that he hasn't been 100% in the past and now he is. Additionally, he also has a great teacher in McNally now.

My preference is to draft a top Guard in the 2nd that could take over LG, but if somehow there weren't any good ones available, or another higher prospect presented itself (like Gabe Watson at DT) I wouldn't be against losing a top Guard for a reason like that and trying to move Gandy to LG. He certainly can't be worse than Bennie "False Start" Anderson. And this all presupposes that we get Brick which may be wishful thinking anyway...

[ShadowHawk7]

I don't understand the Tight End obsession. Our O line is in shambles, our D was one of the 4 worst in the league last year, and some posters want to spend a precious first round pick on a Tight End? Isn't this the kind of thinking that got Tom Donahoe run out of town?

It appears to me that Campbell is a decent all-around player; Euhus a good - but totally underutilized - pass receiver; and we drafted Everett - a fast, athletic, potentially big play guy - in the 3rd round last year. Plus, we haven't used our TEs enough the last few seasons to even get a real handle on their abilities.

Why, given our much more pressing needs and the fact that we drafted a good, young TE last year, would we use a high pick on another one this year?
Great post. Agreed on all points. I'm up for trading down though.