Bucs are going to be good for a long time!

[lordofgun]

The Bucs are about $2.5 million over the cap for 2003 and should easily be able to trim the required salaries. They won't be able to spend like drunken pirates in free agency, but they should be able to do some modest spending.

So the NFL's No. 1-ranked defense is going to stay loaded.

The Bucs' biggest stars all are in their prime. Linebacker Derrick Brooks, the NFL defensive player of the year, is 29. Defensive tackle Warren Sapp is 30. Defensive tackle Anthony McFarland, who didn't even play in the Super Bowl because of injury, is 25. Defensive end Simeon Rice is 30. Cornerback Ronde Barber is 27. Safety John Lynch is 31.

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20030128/1039682.asp

[don137]

One thing the Bucs had going for them is they were relatively healthy this year...They are quite impressive. Gruden is a stud of a coach. The thing that impressed me most about him is he really brought out the strengths of Brad Johnson

[WG]

How could they possibly be that good with only a QB who hasnt' done much in 9 seasons and w/o a huge name at QB and one who breaks all kinds of attempt records?

I'm perplexed! :biggrin:

Totally agree w/ that article. If we were to make the SB next year or the following, there's a strong liklihood that we'd face them. More reason to bolster our rushing game and fix the D this offseason, eh.

[Patrick76777]

I disagree……of course…….it’s much too difficult to get there time and again. The Bucs are good, but Brad Johnson had a career year, and was lucky to get thru with only small injuries and they have a TERRIBLE running game! This team was known as the biggest chock artists in the league for about 6 years. One Superbowl can not fully exorcise those demons. They’ll be the top dog next year and teams will be looking to take them out. They’ll be in a division with very good Saints and Falcons teams and an improving Panthers team. A conference with the Eagles and Niners who will be making changes to make a run and also a very good Giants team. Not too mention any team that may decide to surprise us all and make a run. It’ll be a very tough road for the Bucs. They’re good, and they deserve the win, but I don’t think they’re up with the greatest teams ever. The teams that have been able to repeat.

[THATHURMANATOR]

"How could they possibly be that good with only a QB who hasnt' done much in 9 seasons and w/o a huge name at QB and one who breaks all kinds of attempt records?"

You see WYS in making this comment you are almost saying that it is possible for Bledsoe to do it also. If Brad Johnson can win a super bowl why do you think it is so Impossible that Bledsoe could win one? I think its fair to say that Bledsoe is a better QB than Johnson. I know, I know TB is all about defense, but you know what I mean.

[WG]

76777,

The Bucs "team" may not have been that good all the way around. But their defense is w/o question among the best that has ever played in the NFL. Their win simply shows how important defense is in winning. Year in and year out teams w/ top Ds win the SB w/ only rare exceptions. Their STs wasn't stellar either.

Perhaps we have an overemphasis on offense.



Originally posted by THATHURMANATOR
"How could they possibly be that good with only a QB who hasnt' done much in 9 seasons and w/o a huge name at QB and one who breaks all kinds of attempt records?"

You see WYS in making this comment you are almost saying that it is possible for Bledsoe to do it also. If Brad Johnson can win a super bowl why do you think it is so Impossible that Bledsoe could win one? I think its fair to say that Bledsoe is a better QB than Johnson. I know, I know TB is all about defense, but you know what I mean.

"If Brad Johnson can win a super bowl"

And you are admitting that it was Brad Johnson who "won it" when in fact it was their entire team. Pittman played well b/c the OL did, the D played well in spite of anything that BJ did. Gruden, enough said.

Brad Johnson should be a perfect testimony that yardage passing records and number of times a QB puts the ball up in a season are virtually meaningless in gauging how good a "team" is.

You fail to grasp the "team" concept if you really believe that Johnson "won the Super Bowl" for the Bucs.

If not, then why would it have been so unfathomable for us to have made the playoffs w/ a decent DL and with Blake or Chandler at QB?

BTW, Johnson's lifetime TD/INT ratio is much better than Drews. As well, Johnson tossed 22 TDs, 2 shy of Drew, w/ only 6 INTs in several fewer games and on about 200 fewer attempts and with about 1,300 fewer yards!

If yards and attempts mean so stinkin' much, then how come that was the case? Seems to me that Johnson outplayed Drew this year on a team w/ only a fraction of the tools and a worse OL. I suppose that means that Johnson's better than your boy Drew, eh.

[WG]

:cheers:

Here's to hopin' that Drew doesn't turn the ball over another 18 times in our 7 toughest games next season again.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Johnson didn't win it, Gannon lost it. That's a big difference.

[Voltron]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
:cheers:

Here's to hopin' that Drew doesn't turn the ball over another 18 times in our 7 toughest games next season again.


Will it ever end!? You have now said this in at least 4 different posts I have seen Wys. We get the point you don't care for Drew!

:deadhorse

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
76777,

Their win simply shows how important defense is in winning. Year in and year out teams w/ top Ds win the SB w/ only rare exceptions. Their STs wasn't stellar either.



With that statment wys, why is it you put so much emphasis on Drew losing 7 or 8 game instead of looking at our D. You love to put Drew down and yet you look away when it is time to give Drew credit where credit is due. He may not have been the greatest but he has broken qb records "IN HIS FIRST YEAR"w/c has to account for something.

[kgun12]

Lord I agree with you 100%, the only thing that can stop the Bucs is the Bucs. It will depennd how they handle the SB victory. Some teams go crazy after the win and forget about off season conditioning and not ready for the next season. If they stay focus and no big injuries watch out!

[WG]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
Johnson didn't win it, Gannon lost it. That's a big difference.

OK then.

And I say that it was the Buc D that forced Gannon into all those errors and that he didn't instantaneously combust performance wise.

I'll stand with just about every football analyst in the country on that one. At least it's a big island. :D

[Earthquake Enyart]

TB's defense is overrated. Gannon had horrible judgement and accuracy. I wouldn't be surprised if he threw the game.

[THATHURMANATOR]

"And you are admitting that it was Brad Johnson who "won it" when in fact it was their entire team."

No I was clearly saying that the Team won the game with a QB the calibur of Brad Johnson at the helm. Nothing more. Nothing less!!!

"Here's to hopin' that Drew doesn't turn the ball over another 18 times in our 7 toughest games next season again."

I will toast to that!!! :cheers:

[lordofgun]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
:cheers:

Here's to hopin' that Drew doesn't turn the ball over another 18 times in our 7 toughest games next season again.

It never would have even occured to me to hope for that. :eek:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Me either LOG until WYS brought it up....

[lordofgun]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
:cheers:

Here's to hopin' that Drew doesn't turn the ball over another 18 times in our 7 toughest games next season again.

This statement just craacks me up! Talk about random! :snicker:

[Patrick76777]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
76777,

The Bucs "team" may not have been that good all the way around. But their defense is w/o question among the best that has ever played in the NFL. Their win simply shows how important defense is in winning. Year in and year out teams w/ top Ds win the SB w/ only rare exceptions. Their STs wasn't stellar either.

Perhaps we have an overemphasis on offense.








No doubt! Remember that I predicted TB would win for the same reason. However, good coaching can get around a great defense. With the right game plan, the Raiders could have easily won that game. When facing such a fast, strong, and quick defense, why would you design a game plan based solely on passing the ball? It doesn’t make any sense. With TB’s defensive front, they should have known Gannon would be under immense pressure. Against that defense, they should have been very conservative. Take what they give you. Run the ball up their gut. I know that passing was Oakland’s strength, but sometimes you need to be preemptive. Play to your opponent’s weakness, as opposed to playing to your strength.

As for crowning TB next seasons champions, I say hold on. Great defense yes, As good as The 2000 Ravens or the 85 Bears? IMO, close, but not quite. And remember that both of those teams had offensive weaknesses and both of those teams failed to make another run. However, balanced teams like the Cowboys of 93 and 94, and SF of 88 and 89 were able to repeat. I just don’t think Tampa Bay has the all around balance to make another run.

As to the Bills focusing on our offense, I disagree again. Sure we had a strong offense this year, but I don’t think we planned on building a team with such a potent attack. Remember that last year, our offense was awful. We lost plenty of games on account of not being able to score. IMO, this current offense was built like this,

1. Eric Moulds or M. Wiley?
-Both FA’s a few years back, who do you sign. Signing Moulds was the right choice. Wiley had just finished a 10-sack season, his first in 4 years. SD was throwing a ton of cash at him. It wasn’t worth the risk.

2. Drafting Peerless Price and for that matter Josh Reed.
-A situation where both were the best player on the board at the beginning of the second round.
3. Drafting Mike Williams and signing Price and Teague.
-The major weakness of this team for 4 seasons was O-line, we needed bodies. Again a matter of
necessity

4. Travis Henry
-it’s not like we knew we were drafting a 1400 yard back with Henry, he just turned out to be very
good. And he was not a first round draft pick.
5. Drew Bledose
-Sure you disagree, but we go with AVP or Travis Brown if we don’t make this deal. Let’s look at it this way, We stay with AVP and Brown, You and about 45 other people are very happy. We sign Drew Bledsoe and we sell out our first 6 games of the season 4 months in advance.


So I don’t think the game plan for TD, was to build an unbelievable offense, rather I think that several small moves over the past 3 years, landed a great offense right in our lap.

In my mind, this is a great thing, because now we have a very capable offense (much better then that of Tampa Bay’s) and about 16 million UNDER the cap for defensive reinforcements. That puts us in great shape for next season. Because with such a capable offense, as long as Drew doesn’t throw 42 Int’s in our 15 most important games (I swear those numbers are growing with every new post) and a new powerful defense (if TD brings the right guys in) we should be in great shape.

[WG]

I really gotta run here 76, I'll try and read this and respond later on this evening....

;)

[THATHURMANATOR]

A simple "nice post I agree patrick" would have sufficed there I think....

[TedMock]

Nobody really thinks Brad Johnson had a good game do they? I was less than impressed, personally. As far as Gannon goes, he threw horrible passes and the Bucs defense played well....bad combination for the Raiders. I will say that Johnson's 22-6 ratio was outstanding this season, I don't think anyone was even close to him. I'm not completely sold on him but almost there as far as thinking he's "solid". I do like him though and even more now that Dan Snyder has once again proved that he can't manage personell. Half the Eagles are ex-skins who played in the NFC championship, I love it.

[Patrick76777]

No, I think Tampa played great, in all aspects of the game! They were the best team on Sunday and they were the best team in football this year. I just don’t think they have what it takes to repeat. And that’s just my opinion. Trust me, I’ve been wrong many a times.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I don't think Brad Johnson gets the credit he deserves. He's a nice, safe, WCO QB who makes good decisions. He's not going to go out and throw for 400 yards and single handedly win games, but he's not going to throw 5 picks into a relatively simple defense either.

I also agree with the bulk of Pat's long winded diatribe too. The OL was so horrible, TD had to address that first. He thought he addressed LB's with Fletcher and Robinson (1 of 2 ain't bad). Bledsoe was there for the taking and he was bold enough to act. I bet the Bears (and others) wished they had.

[Jeff 311]

they will w/ that kinda D, plus when gruden gets the Offense personal he wants, watch out!

[Scott]

Who will the Bucs keep as #2 QB? Both RJ and King are FA's.
Neither performed all that well.
I think King might draw some FA interest and could possibly move else where.
RJ said on the radio that the Bucs offered him a contract extension in September but RJ asked to wait until after the season.

[shelby]

King will be gone. Gruden isn't quite ready to give up on RJ yet.

Patrick....nice post:up:

[Halbert]

Every single year people pipe up about the SB winner is going to be unbeatable. Remember how the Pats were going to retain all their players so that anything they add would only make them better? Remember how the Ravens were going to get a "real" QB to replace Dilfer and be unstoppable? Remember how the Rams were going to win the next three SB's?

The Bucs are going to be yet another SB winner that fizzles out the next season after everyone and their mother picks them to repeat. What's their biggest handicap? So many young players who will get chick after chick telling them how great they are, TV shows, magazine articles, blah blah blah, day after day, all summer long. They'll lose their edge faster than a Bic razor scraping through Roseanne's butt hairs.

The team to beat next year will be the Eagles. They were the NFC's hottest team going into the playoffs and are going to be steaming mad all season they didn't get a shot at the Raiders. They certainly have the defense that could carry them deep into January and will be the most motivated team in the league.

Fortunately, I honestly believe the Bills will be as good as anybody in the AFC. With what looks like one of the easier schedules, we should be in the playoffs and if we host any games past the second round we should have a good shot at the title game. Hopefully, TD and company can build the defense fast enough to compliment an offense that will be as good as any in the league.

My prediction for next season: Eagles vs. Bills. And the Bucs won't even make the playoffs.

[Cntrygal]

Originally posted by Halbert

My prediction for next season: Eagles vs. Bills.

:pray: This would be sooo sweet!

[Dozerdog]

I honestly beleive the Defense looked so domninating Sunday because Gruden knew exactly what they were doing.

I posted in another thread that it was reported that the Oakland Raiders did a horrible job in changng the playcall terminology and audible terminology- they were using the same signals they did last season- to the Suprise of the TB defense.

They knew exactly what the Raiders were doing.


On the plus side, Tampa's offense will improve dramatically once Gruden gets his guys in place. But free agency and the loss of quality assistants on defense (Kiffin is being interviewed by SF) will erode the Bucs defense.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I heard about that Dozer. What a joke. Tampa knew exactly what was coming on virtually everyplay. Hell even our d might look good in that situation.

[WG]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
TB's defense is overrated. Gannon had horrible judgement and accuracy. I wouldn't be surprised if he threw the game.

You're right! They only allowed 12 ppg all season long. What stiffs!

[WG]

Originally posted by lordofgun


It never would have even occured to me to hope for that. :eek:

I'm sure! ;)


Originally posted by lordofgun


This statement just craacks me up! Talk about random! :snicker:

Random? How?

It's a pattern. Hardly random. I'd go get some proof, but no one will believe it or admit that there might be something to it if I do, so I won't bother. But that's what Drew does. He chokes, doesn't throw TDs, and tosses INTs in the biggest and most important games all year. He's done it for years.

So I don't know how it would be random. Prove me wrong. Go find 2 or 3 seasons where he didn't toss more INTs than TDs in the 5 toughest games each season based on opponents' records, and I'll acquiesce. Heck, find 2 or 3 seasons where he even tossed many TDs, more than a 1/game average or so against the 5 toughest teams that he's played and ditto.

Easy, right. Random, hardly.

[WG]

Originally posted by Patrick76777



No doubt! Remember that I predicted TB would win for the same reason. However, good coaching can get around a great defense. With the right game plan, the Raiders could have easily won that game. When facing such a fast, strong, and quick defense, why would you design a game plan based solely on passing the ball? It doesn’t make any sense. With TB’s defensive front, they should have known Gannon would be under immense pressure. Against that defense, they should have been very conservative. Take what they give you. Run the ball up their gut. I know that passing was Oakland’s strength, but sometimes you need to be preemptive. Play to your opponent’s weakness, as opposed to playing to your strength.

As for crowning TB next seasons champions, I say hold on. Great defense yes, As good as The 2000 Ravens or the 85 Bears? IMO, close, but not quite. And remember that both of those teams had offensive weaknesses and both of those teams failed to make another run. However, balanced teams like the Cowboys of 93 and 94, and SF of 88 and 89 were able to repeat. I just don’t think Tampa Bay has the all around balance to make another run.

As to the Bills focusing on our offense, I disagree again. Sure we had a strong offense this year, but I don’t think we planned on building a team with such a potent attack. Remember that last year, our offense was awful. We lost plenty of games on account of not being able to score. IMO, this current offense was built like this,

1. Eric Moulds or M. Wiley?
-Both FA’s a few years back, who do you sign. Signing Moulds was the right choice. Wiley had just finished a 10-sack season, his first in 4 years. SD was throwing a ton of cash at him. It wasn’t worth the risk.

2. Drafting Peerless Price and for that matter Josh Reed.
-A situation where both were the best player on the board at the beginning of the second round.
3. Drafting Mike Williams and signing Price and Teague.
-The major weakness of this team for 4 seasons was O-line, we needed bodies. Again a matter of
necessity

4. Travis Henry
-it’s not like we knew we were drafting a 1400 yard back with Henry, he just turned out to be very
good. And he was not a first round draft pick.
5. Drew Bledose
-Sure you disagree, but we go with AVP or Travis Brown if we don’t make this deal. Let’s look at it this way, We stay with AVP and Brown, You and about 45 other people are very happy. We sign Drew Bledsoe and we sell out our first 6 games of the season 4 months in advance.


So I don’t think the game plan for TD, was to build an unbelievable offense, rather I think that several small moves over the past 3 years, landed a great offense right in our lap.

In my mind, this is a great thing, because now we have a very capable offense (much better then that of Tampa Bay’s) and about 16 million UNDER the cap for defensive reinforcements. That puts us in great shape for next season. Because with such a capable offense, as long as Drew doesn’t throw 42 Int’s in our 15 most important games (I swear those numbers are growing with every new post) and a new powerful defense (if TD brings the right guys in) we should be in great shape.

Good post, just to get back to you 76!

I think T.B. will be better next year however. They'll make some pickups and Pittman will be the key to their O. But they did fine this year and there aren't too many FAs on their team, at least not critical ones. As well, they could probably lose 3 or 4 starters on D and still be solid.

As to Oakland, I don't think they had a chance in this game. The played equally horribly against a tough Miami squad and hadn't played any decent Ds all year long. The reason they don't run is b/c Garner is nor ever has been a between the Tackles type of runner. He's a small back and simply doesn't hit the hole with much power or momentum. He's like a Metcalf, a third down scat-back in a system that's designed to use him all the time. Kind of like a run-and-shoot which is essentially what Oakland played.

Had Oakland had a power rusher, or had Wheatley been 5 years younger, then I could see the Raiders with a chance to win, albeit not by much.

[Scott]

Seeing the Eagles as the early SB favorite will motivate the Bucs. They will be back next year.
Eagles need to upgrade at RB and WR, Bucs need to improve OL.
I see a nice rivalry developing there.

[mush69]

Brad Johnson isn't a great Qb, good maybe. He failed with every other team he played with. He could never get it done when he needed to before going to Tampa.

Rich Gannon was the same way before he got hooked up with Gruden. Gruden put the right players around Rich and he has had a couple of great years. With most of the Raiders offensive personel the same this year Rich had another good season. League MVP after all said and done.

So Gruden leaves Oakland this last year and yet takes on another project in Brad Johnson and the Tampon Bay Bucs.
Th result are evident that maybe, just maybe Gruden knows how to coach Qb's a little, and he gets more out of his players then other coaches.

Imo it was Gruden who won the game, his team did all the right things. Which is what good teams do, follow the coaches direction. Which brings us to manboobs (GW), He is not a good coach and it won't make a difference if we collected a team of All Pro talent on both sides of the ball. Manboobs can't lead!

[WG]

Yeah, but he's gonna be around for at least another year.

The thing that I'd like to quit seeing is making signficant changes each year. At some point we have to begin striving for some continuity in chemistry. W/ major changes each season, we lose some of that. I'm 50/50 on GW. He allows Gilbride to make bumbling play calling and apparently says nothing.

We'll find out this season if Gray was responsible for the play of the D or if it was something else. Not sure what else it would be and he definitely looked like a man more confident in the last bunch of games.



Originally posted by Scott
Seeing the Eagles as the early SB favorite will motivate the Bucs. They will be back next year.
Eagles need to upgrade at RB and WR, Bucs need to improve OL.
I see a nice rivalry developing there.

I think the Niners will be back too dependent upon the changes that take place there. They had a solid D and all the talent on O. IDK why they didn't perform better this year on O.

Atlanta, while overrated IMO this season, may make some big strides there as well.

Also, don't rule out the Boys w/ the Tuna in there. They had a decent D and the entire team only figures to get better. The NFC North may be the weakest division in the NFL next season. IMO the Pack are on their way down. Favre is talking about retirement which isn't good.

Philly may make a move for Price.

[Halbert]

Originally posted by mush69
Brad Johnson could never get it done when he needed to before going to Tampa. Rich Gannon was the same way before he got hooked up with Gruden.
I don't understand why so many fans keep ignoring the fact that the QB position is one which players often do not become productive until later in their career. The list is long of QB's who were mediocre or less their first 6-8 years (or more) then suddenly they put it together and have great seasons. If Gannon and Beurlein and Testaverde can suddenly become hot quarterbacks after a decade in the league, any QB can. It's the one position where 37 can be a prime age.

I won't argue the Gruden point, but a QB doesn't have to have a great offensive minded coach to come out of nowhere to put together a string of very good seasons. When he wasn't injured, Brad Johnson played some very good games in his later Vikings seasons and actually started out great in Washington, so I wouldn't slap the QB genius label on Gruden based on Johnson pulling out of a two year slump.