So you want a true REALITY CHECK?

[Tatonka]

everyone thought drew brees was a bust until year 4..in his first three years, he put up 28 tds and 34 turnovers.. then magically, in his fourth year, it clicked and he put 27 tds and 9 turnovers.

guys like skooby think that brees is the answer.. but all brees would be is an older jp losman with a bum shoulder.

losman has better numbers than brees actually after 8 games under his belt.. hell, losman has better numbers than elway and steve young too.

people are so quick to judge someone in a position that has always and will always take time to grow into.. this is not rocket science.. guys need experience to play better. period. if you dont want to give them that, then dont draft them.. just keep jumping from veteran free agent junk like drew bledsoe to the next one like jon kitna or the doctors best patients, pennington and brees.

it just kills me.. i mean.. get some damn perspective skooby and the other dolts, like tackling dummy, that are screaming for every scrub or injured back up out there..

here is your damn reality check.. lets just take a look at these numbers

Hall of Famer QBs

Troy Aikmen - first two seasons starting
11 games played- 9 tds / 18 Ints / 6 fumbles - 1750 yards
15 games played- 11 tds / 18 Ints / 5 fumbles - 2800 yards

* in aikmans 11 year career, 7 out of 11 seasons resulted in more turnovers (ints and fumbles) than total touchdowns..



John Elway - first two seasons starting
11 games played - 8 tds / 14 Ints / 6 fumbles - 1660 yards
15 games played - 18 tds / 15 Ints / 14 fumbles - 2600 yards

* in John Elways career he had more Ints than Tds in 4 other seasons later in his career and never had more than 28 total tds in a season, ever. also, in his 16 year career 10 times, that is 10 out of 16, he had more total turnovers (ints and fumbles) and total touchdowns...



Steve Young - first two seasons starting

5 games started - 4 tds / 8 Ints / 4 fumbles - 940 yards
14 games started - 8 tds / 13 Ints / 11 fumbles - 2300 yards

* after those first two years, young was surrounded by a good team and was pretty much awesome throughout his career. only 2 more times out of his 14 years, only ONE time did his passer rating dip below 92%... but imagine that.. when surrounded by a bad team with a even worse oline, he looked terrible as a first and second year qb. so bad, he wasnt worth keeping.. i bet Tampa Bay doesnt regret giving up on Steve Young at all!



Some Current QBs - since the history of some hall of fame qbs probably doesnt hold much weight.. lets take a look at some current qbs who play todays game.

Carson Palmer - first 2 seasons starting

13 games started - 18 Tds / 18 Ints / 2 fumbles - 2870 yards
16 games played - 32 Tds / 12 Ints / 5 fumble - 3860 yards

* palmer struggled in his first year.. and he got almost double the amount of games losman did. if losman would have got a full year, he numbers from this past season show that he would have finished with right around the same numbers that palmer did as a first year starter.



Eli Manning - first two years starting

9 games played - 6 TDs / 9 Ints / 3 fumbles - 1040 yards
16 games played - 24 TDs / 17 Ints / 9 fumbles - 3760 yards

* WOW.. those numbers look a hell of a lot like another young qb that we have on our roster.. same amount of games played basically and the same numbers basically at that point.. his coach just didnt give up on him.. he responded by getting them in the playoffs in his second year as a starter.



Brett Favre - first two years started

15 games played - 18 TDs / 13 Ints / 12 Fumbles - 3200 yards
16 games played - 19 TDs / 24 Ints / 14 Fumbles - 3300 yards

* i figured i would throw him in there since he is the one that JP seems to garner the most compairison against.. and these are favre's stats AFTER he was sent to green bay.. he was shipped out of atlanta before he got a chance to play.



so you wanted a reality check.. there you go.. i dont know if jp will turn out to be as good as any of these qbs.. but i do know for a FACT that after 8 games, you cant tell ANYTHING about how his future will go. so for the few of you who are ready to drop jp after half a season under center on a team as bad as ours was last year, and a coaching staff as inept as the one that just left, get over yourselves. drew brees and chad pennington will not help this team.. they would be in the same spot as any other qb.. they would have to come in and learn a new system that took them 3 years to learn themselves w/ their old teams.

/rant off.

[Devin]

Thats part of the point.

Honestly I dont get how Losman can be considered a "bust" or "not the answer" when all-pro QB's have had comparible numbers.

[ChristopherWalken]

It will mpost definitly take Losman time to develop. But he also has something that can't be taught. He has a cunning knack for feeling the pressure in the backfield and the speed and athelticism to avoid the sack. On top of that he really can launch the ball when given time.

He just has to put it all of what he is learning together.

[YardRat]

Did any of those guys have a 1247-yd rusher in their backfield their first year starting? Or an 80-catch receiver?

Just wondering.

[Philagape]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=88563&highlight=Elway

[Mr. Cynical]

everyone thought drew brees was a bust until year 4..in his first three years, he put up 28 tds and 34 turnovers.. then magically, in his fourth year, it clicked and he put 27 tds and 9 turnovers.

guys like skooby think that brees is the answer.. but all brees would be is an older jp losman with a bum shoulder.

losman has better numbers than brees actually after 8 games under his belt.. hell, losman has better numbers than elway and steve young too.

people are so quick to judge someone in a position that has always and will always take time to grow into.. this is not rocket science.. guys need experience to play better. period. if you dont want to give them that, then dont draft them.. just keep jumping from veteran free agent junk like drew bledsoe to the next one like jon kitna or the doctors best patients, pennington and brees.

it just kills me.. i mean.. get some damn perspective skooby and the other dolts, like tackling dummy, that are screaming for every scrub or injured back up out there..

here is your damn reality check.. lets just take a look at these numbers

Hall of Famer QBs

Troy Aikmen - first two seasons starting
11 games played- 9 tds / 18 Ints / 6 fumbles - 1750 yards
15 games played- 11 tds / 18 Ints / 5 fumbles - 2800 yards

* in aikmans 11 year career, 7 out of 11 seasons resulted in more turnovers (ints and fumbles) than total touchdowns..



John Elway - first two seasons starting
11 games played - 8 tds / 14 Ints / 6 fumbles - 1660 yards
15 games played - 18 tds / 15 Ints / 14 fumbles - 2600 yards

* in John Elways career he had more Ints than Tds in 4 other seasons later in his career and never had more than 28 total tds in a season, ever. also, in his 16 year career 10 times, that is 10 out of 16, he had more total turnovers (ints and fumbles) and total touchdowns...



Steve Young - first two seasons starting

5 games started - 4 tds / 8 Ints / 4 fumbles - 940 yards
14 games started - 8 tds / 13 Ints / 11 fumbles - 2300 yards

* after those first two years, young was surrounded by a good team and was pretty much awesome throughout his career. only 2 more times out of his 14 years, only ONE time did his passer rating dip below 92%... but imagine that.. when surrounded by a bad team with a even worse oline, he looked terrible as a first and second year qb. so bad, he wasnt worth keeping.. i bet Tampa Bay doesnt regret giving up on Steve Young at all!



Some Current QBs - since the history of some hall of fame qbs probably doesnt hold much weight.. lets take a look at some current qbs who play todays game.

Carson Palmer - first 2 seasons starting

13 games started - 18 Tds / 18 Ints / 2 fumbles - 2870 yards
16 games played - 32 Tds / 12 Ints / 5 fumble - 3860 yards

* palmer struggled in his first year.. and he got almost double the amount of games losman did. if losman would have got a full year, he numbers from this past season show that he would have finished with right around the same numbers that palmer did as a first year starter.



Eli Manning - first two years starting

9 games played - 6 TDs / 9 Ints / 3 fumbles - 1040 yards
16 games played - 24 TDs / 17 Ints / 9 fumbles - 3760 yards

* WOW.. those numbers look a hell of a lot like another young qb that we have on our roster.. same amount of games played basically and the same numbers basically at that point.. his coach just didnt give up on him.. he responded by getting them in the playoffs in his second year as a starter.



Brett Favre - first two years started

15 games played - 18 TDs / 13 Ints / 12 Fumbles - 3200 yards
16 games played - 19 TDs / 24 Ints / 14 Fumbles - 3300 yards

* i figured i would throw him in there since he is the one that JP seems to garner the most compairison against.. and these are favre's stats AFTER he was sent to green bay.. he was shipped out of atlanta before he got a chance to play.



so you wanted a reality check.. there you go.. i dont know if jp will turn out to be as good as any of these qbs.. but i do know for a FACT that after 8 games, you cant tell ANYTHING about how his future will go. so for the few of you who are ready to drop jp after half a season under center on a team as bad as ours was last year, and a coaching staff as inept as the one that just left, get over yourselves. drew brees and chad pennington will not help this team.. they would be in the same spot as any other qb.. they would have to come in and learn a new system that took them 3 years to learn themselves w/ their old teams.

/rant off.
Great post. Too bad certain people will never get it, or will just keep spewing nonsense just to piss off you and other knowledgeable fans.

[ICE74129]

everyone thought drew brees was a bust until year 4..in his first three years, he put up 28 tds and 34 turnovers.. then magically, in his fourth year, it clicked and he put 27 tds and 9 turnovers.

guys like skooby think that brees is the answer.. but all brees would be is an older jp losman with a bum shoulder.

losman has better numbers than brees actually after 8 games under his belt.. hell, losman has better numbers than elway and steve young too.

people are so quick to judge someone in a position that has always and will always take time to grow into.. this is not rocket science.. guys need experience to play better. period. if you dont want to give them that, then dont draft them.. just keep jumping from veteran free agent junk like drew bledsoe to the next one like jon kitna or the doctors best patients, pennington and brees.

it just kills me.. i mean.. get some damn perspective skooby and the other dolts, like tackling dummy, that are screaming for every scrub or injured back up out there..

here is your damn reality check.. lets just take a look at these numbers

Hall of Famer QBs

Troy Aikmen - first two seasons starting
11 games played- 9 tds / 18 Ints / 6 fumbles - 1750 yards
15 games played- 11 tds / 18 Ints / 5 fumbles - 2800 yards

* in aikmans 11 year career, 7 out of 11 seasons resulted in more turnovers (ints and fumbles) than total touchdowns..



John Elway - first two seasons starting
11 games played - 8 tds / 14 Ints / 6 fumbles - 1660 yards
15 games played - 18 tds / 15 Ints / 14 fumbles - 2600 yards

* in John Elways career he had more Ints than Tds in 4 other seasons later in his career and never had more than 28 total tds in a season, ever. also, in his 16 year career 10 times, that is 10 out of 16, he had more total turnovers (ints and fumbles) and total touchdowns...



Steve Young - first two seasons starting

5 games started - 4 tds / 8 Ints / 4 fumbles - 940 yards
14 games started - 8 tds / 13 Ints / 11 fumbles - 2300 yards

* after those first two years, young was surrounded by a good team and was pretty much awesome throughout his career. only 2 more times out of his 14 years, only ONE time did his passer rating dip below 92%... but imagine that.. when surrounded by a bad team with a even worse oline, he looked terrible as a first and second year qb. so bad, he wasnt worth keeping.. i bet Tampa Bay doesnt regret giving up on Steve Young at all!



Some Current QBs - since the history of some hall of fame qbs probably doesnt hold much weight.. lets take a look at some current qbs who play todays game.

Carson Palmer - first 2 seasons starting

13 games started - 18 Tds / 18 Ints / 2 fumbles - 2870 yards
16 games played - 32 Tds / 12 Ints / 5 fumble - 3860 yards

* palmer struggled in his first year.. and he got almost double the amount of games losman did. if losman would have got a full year, he numbers from this past season show that he would have finished with right around the same numbers that palmer did as a first year starter.



Eli Manning - first two years starting

9 games played - 6 TDs / 9 Ints / 3 fumbles - 1040 yards
16 games played - 24 TDs / 17 Ints / 9 fumbles - 3760 yards

* WOW.. those numbers look a hell of a lot like another young qb that we have on our roster.. same amount of games played basically and the same numbers basically at that point.. his coach just didnt give up on him.. he responded by getting them in the playoffs in his second year as a starter.



Brett Favre - first two years started

15 games played - 18 TDs / 13 Ints / 12 Fumbles - 3200 yards
16 games played - 19 TDs / 24 Ints / 14 Fumbles - 3300 yards

* i figured i would throw him in there since he is the one that JP seems to garner the most compairison against.. and these are favre's stats AFTER he was sent to green bay.. he was shipped out of atlanta before he got a chance to play.



so you wanted a reality check.. there you go.. i dont know if jp will turn out to be as good as any of these qbs.. but i do know for a FACT that after 8 games, you cant tell ANYTHING about how his future will go. so for the few of you who are ready to drop jp after half a season under center on a team as bad as ours was last year, and a coaching staff as inept as the one that just left, get over yourselves. drew brees and chad pennington will not help this team.. they would be in the same spot as any other qb.. they would have to come in and learn a new system that took them 3 years to learn themselves w/ their old teams.

/rant off.

Post of 06 so far :limpclap:

[feelthepain]

Great post. Too bad certain people will never get it, or will just keep spewing nonsense just to piss off you and other knowledgeable fans.

Evryone has an opinion, some Bill fans don't think JP is as good as others. It doesn't make them right or wrong, it's an opinion.

[Typ0]

While what you say is true about a developing QB...there are many, many QBs who never become anything. I'm not sure it's wise to take all of your eggs and thrown them into one basket...what are you going to do if it gets to cold and none of those eggs hatch?

[The_Philster]

in the salary cap era, it's also not wise to spend high picks on QBs every few years....especially considering you can only play one at a time

[Typ0]

in the salary cap era, it's also not wise to spend high picks on QBs every few years....especially considering you can only play one at a time


it's pretty logical that two high picks has a 50% better chance of landing a winner. And then there is the potential of many first day picks to be the one you're looking for.

[The_Philster]

it's pretty logical that two high picks has a 50% better chance of landing a winner. And then there is the potential of many first day picks to be the one you're looking for.
like I said...salary cap era

[Nighthawk]

everyone thought drew brees was a bust until year 4..in his first three years, he put up 28 tds and 34 turnovers.. then magically, in his fourth year, it clicked and he put 27 tds and 9 turnovers.

guys like skooby think that brees is the answer.. but all brees would be is an older jp losman with a bum shoulder.

losman has better numbers than brees actually after 8 games under his belt.. hell, losman has better numbers than elway and steve young too.

people are so quick to judge someone in a position that has always and will always take time to grow into.. this is not rocket science.. guys need experience to play better. period. if you dont want to give them that, then dont draft them.. just keep jumping from veteran free agent junk like drew bledsoe to the next one like jon kitna or the doctors best patients, pennington and brees.

it just kills me.. i mean.. get some damn perspective skooby and the other dolts, like tackling dummy, that are screaming for every scrub or injured back up out there..

here is your damn reality check.. lets just take a look at these numbers

Hall of Famer QBs

Troy Aikmen - first two seasons starting
11 games played- 9 tds / 18 Ints / 6 fumbles - 1750 yards
15 games played- 11 tds / 18 Ints / 5 fumbles - 2800 yards

* in aikmans 11 year career, 7 out of 11 seasons resulted in more turnovers (ints and fumbles) than total touchdowns..



John Elway - first two seasons starting
11 games played - 8 tds / 14 Ints / 6 fumbles - 1660 yards
15 games played - 18 tds / 15 Ints / 14 fumbles - 2600 yards

* in John Elways career he had more Ints than Tds in 4 other seasons later in his career and never had more than 28 total tds in a season, ever. also, in his 16 year career 10 times, that is 10 out of 16, he had more total turnovers (ints and fumbles) and total touchdowns...



Steve Young - first two seasons starting

5 games started - 4 tds / 8 Ints / 4 fumbles - 940 yards
14 games started - 8 tds / 13 Ints / 11 fumbles - 2300 yards

* after those first two years, young was surrounded by a good team and was pretty much awesome throughout his career. only 2 more times out of his 14 years, only ONE time did his passer rating dip below 92%... but imagine that.. when surrounded by a bad team with a even worse oline, he looked terrible as a first and second year qb. so bad, he wasnt worth keeping.. i bet Tampa Bay doesnt regret giving up on Steve Young at all!



Some Current QBs - since the history of some hall of fame qbs probably doesnt hold much weight.. lets take a look at some current qbs who play todays game.

Carson Palmer - first 2 seasons starting

13 games started - 18 Tds / 18 Ints / 2 fumbles - 2870 yards
16 games played - 32 Tds / 12 Ints / 5 fumble - 3860 yards

* palmer struggled in his first year.. and he got almost double the amount of games losman did. if losman would have got a full year, he numbers from this past season show that he would have finished with right around the same numbers that palmer did as a first year starter.



Eli Manning - first two years starting

9 games played - 6 TDs / 9 Ints / 3 fumbles - 1040 yards
16 games played - 24 TDs / 17 Ints / 9 fumbles - 3760 yards

* WOW.. those numbers look a hell of a lot like another young qb that we have on our roster.. same amount of games played basically and the same numbers basically at that point.. his coach just didnt give up on him.. he responded by getting them in the playoffs in his second year as a starter.



Brett Favre - first two years started

15 games played - 18 TDs / 13 Ints / 12 Fumbles - 3200 yards
16 games played - 19 TDs / 24 Ints / 14 Fumbles - 3300 yards

* i figured i would throw him in there since he is the one that JP seems to garner the most compairison against.. and these are favre's stats AFTER he was sent to green bay.. he was shipped out of atlanta before he got a chance to play.



so you wanted a reality check.. there you go.. i dont know if jp will turn out to be as good as any of these qbs.. but i do know for a FACT that after 8 games, you cant tell ANYTHING about how his future will go. so for the few of you who are ready to drop jp after half a season under center on a team as bad as ours was last year, and a coaching staff as inept as the one that just left, get over yourselves. drew brees and chad pennington will not help this team.. they would be in the same spot as any other qb.. they would have to come in and learn a new system that took them 3 years to learn themselves w/ their old teams.

/rant off.


I agree with you 100%. However, when I stated to go after Brees, it was for the mere reason that I'm not getting the warm and fuzzies about how this Bills Brass feels about Losman. If they are going to leave it at as an open competition between Holcomb & Losman, that tells me that they really don't have confidence that Losman is the answer. IF that is the case, than I would rather see the them go out and get somebody that they do believe is the answer and stop this flip-flopping of QB's. When you have a competition for QB that means that you don't have a QB. I like Losman and I really hate the thought of Holcomb as the starter...period. However, Losman will never grow into an NFL starter if he isn't given the chance and doesn't have the backing of the organization. I hope I'm wrong and Marv & company go with the kid, but we'll have to see.

[Bill Brasky]

Thats part of the point.

Honestly I dont get how Losman can be considered a "bust" or "not the answer" when all-pro QB's have had comparible numbers.

because people, especially Bills fans, are really impatient. however, considering the fact that this team constantly sucks decade after decade (sans late 80's/early 90's) i think it is somewhat justified.

this season we will learn a lot about JP and IMO this is his make it or break it year. if he shows improvement or at least plays at an average level, he will be alright for this team. if he is stagnant or backtracks, then we can really start to worry and expect something to be done either via free agency or drafting (again) after the season. hell, if Holcomb beats him out for the job we can start worrying then!

plain and simple - this team is nowhere near the playoffs, at least yet. as much as i want to get excited about free agency and the draft, there's no way that this team will make a drastic turnaround towards a deep playoff run, regardless of who they bring in or draft.

the best we can hope for is that this organization makes JP earn the job this year against Holcomb. watch the guy develop or regress, then we will all know where this organization is headed in the next few years.

[Mr. Cynical]

Evryone has an opinion, some Bill fans don't think JP is as good as others. It doesn't make them right or wrong, it's an opinion.
Yes, opinions are like a**holes, everyone has got one and they usually stink.

In any case, you've completely missed the point, as I mentioned to Tonk that certain people would. The bottom line is that certain people are not saying "I think JP will be a bust"...they are saying "JP is a bust". Huge difference.

"will be a bust" is a guess/opinion. Nobody has a crystal ball so that's fine.

"is a bust" is a statement of fact, which is ridiculous given the lack of playing time and competent coaches.

If certain people can't see that it is too early to say he IS a bust, then there nothing else to say. They will never get it (or, as I mentioned, they get it and just want to bust balls)

[Jan Reimers]

Excellent posts by T and Mr. C.

[feelthepain]

Yes, opinions are like a**holes, everyone has got one and they usually stink.

In any case, you've completely missed the point, as I mentioned to Tonk that certain people would. The bottom line is that certain people are not saying "I think JP will be a bust"...they are saying "JP is a bust". Huge difference.

"will be a bust" is a guess/opinion. Nobody has a crystal ball so that's fine.

"is a bust" is a statement of fact, which is ridiculous given the lack of playing time and competent coaches.

If certain people can't see that it is too early to say he IS a bust, then there nothing else to say. They will never get it (or, as I mentioned, they get it and just want to bust balls)


Well since no one can see into the future there is no way ANYONE will know how his future will turn out, therefore the fans that like JP and the ones that don't just have opinions. Getting mad about it doesn't change peoples opinions if anything it enforces them. No matter how you try and no matter the facts presented there are people that will argue and disagree.

[ICE74129]

While what you say is true about a developing QB...there are many, many QBs who never become anything. I'm not sure it's wise to take all of your eggs and thrown them into one basket...what are you going to do if it gets to cold and none of those eggs hatch?

You move on. Bottom line, and there is NO getting around this, You MUST give him one full season, with Full support from the coaching staff in order to even guess how he will be. Sorry, no getting around it

[Tatonka]

typo.. there are people here who have already determined that jp sucks and we should move on.

my point is that you can NOT know that at this point.. the only way to know is to let him play.. like ice said.. give him the full year next year..

it is so frustrating to see people are just ready to mail it in after a guy threw 8 tds and 8 picks. anyone who couldn't see he improved after coming back the second time is just delusional.

and while it doesn't mean he will be a hall of famer, he numbers compare very well to many guys that turned out to be the best the game ever saw.. so you can not base an opinion of him being awful on his first 8 games.. it just makes you look stupid.

someone mentioned Ryan leaf to compare him too.. have you actually seen leafs numbers? JP already looks like a HOF compared to him.

[ICE74129]

typo.. there are people here who have already determined that jp sucks and we should move on.

my point is that you can NOT know that at this point.. the only way to know is to let him play.. like ice said.. give him the full year next year..

it is so frustrating to see people are just ready to mail it in after a guy threw 8 tds and 8 picks. anyone who couldn't see he improved after coming back the second time is just delusional.

and while it doesn't mean he will be a hall of famer, he numbers compare very well to many guys that turned out to be the best the game ever saw.. so you can not base an opinion of him being awful on his first 8 games.. it just makes you look stupid.

someone mentioned Ryan leaf to compare him too.. have you actually seen leafs numbers? JP already looks like a HOF compared to him.

But T most say they are glad Marv is back then ignore what he says. Marv says Defense makes for better QB play. He says the Defense was horrible last year. He also says OLine play makes for better QB play, as does running the ball and implementing a system that plays to the strengths of the players. But fans want to ignore that.

Marv himself said he watched Elway and for his first year or so thought he was a bust. How did that turn out? he isn't saying JP will be elway, he is saying, improve the TEAM and the QB gets better.

JP haters ignore those FACTS.

[PromoTheRobot]

Evryone has an opinion, some Bill fans don't think JP is as good as others. It doesn't make them right or wrong, it's an opinion.
You can have an opinion, and still be wrong!

PTR

[Mitchy moo]

typo.. there are people here who have already determined that jp sucks and we should move on.

my point is that you can NOT know that at this point.. the only way to know is to let him play.. like ice said.. give him the full year next year..

it is so frustrating to see people are just ready to mail it in after a guy threw 8 tds and 8 picks. anyone who couldn't see he improved after coming back the second time is just delusional.

and while it doesn't mean he will be a hall of famer, he numbers compare very well to many guys that turned out to be the best the game ever saw.. so you can not base an opinion of him being awful on his first 8 games.. it just makes you look stupid.

someone mentioned Ryan leaf to compare him too.. have you actually seen leafs numbers? JP already looks like a HOF compared to him.

I never said JP sucked, I am saying that he is not a current answer for winning. Will he be in the future I cannot say but the answer is now. Tom Brady came off the bench and a dynasty began, kurt Warner came off the bench and won alot of games.

Why is it when I say we need to look around for a great leader at QB they lose it? JP is not ready for primetime folks, it's going to take 2-3 more years of watching and learning. Think about it.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Did any of those guys have a 1247-yd rusher in their backfield their first year starting? Or an 80-catch receiver?

Just wondering.
Off the top of my head I know that Palmer(Johnson and Johnson) and Manning(Toomer/Shockey and Barber) did.

[ICE74129]

I never said JP sucked, I am saying that he is not a current answer for winning. Will he be in the future I cannot say but the answer is now. Tom Brady came off the bench and a dynasty began, kurt Warner came off the bench and won alot of games.

Why is it when I say we need to look around for a great leader at QB they lose it? JP is not ready for primetime folks, it's going to take 2-3 more years of watching and learning. Think about it.

And We are saying you are putting up the stupidest posts ever. And yeah it is WE.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I never said JP sucked, I am saying that he is not a current answer for winning. Will he be in the future I cannot say but the answer is now. Tom Brady came off the bench and a dynasty began, kurt Warner came off the bench and won alot of games.

Why is it when I say we need to look around for a great leader at QB they lose it? JP is not ready for primetime folks, it's going to take 2-3 more years of watching and learning. Think about it.
Well I guess we can sit back and wait then.

[Philagape]

I never said JP sucked, I am saying that he is not a current answer for winning. Will he be in the future I cannot say but the answer is now. Tom Brady came off the bench and a dynasty began, kurt Warner came off the bench and won alot of games.

Why is it when I say we need to look around for a great leader at QB they lose it? JP is not ready for primetime folks, it's going to take 2-3 more years of watching and learning. Think about it.

OK, I'll think. Done. History shows many QBs don't need that long, and that the first year is not indicator of which ones do. And JP showed enough promise to believe he could improve this year, and even more so if his surroundings improve.

[ICE74129]

OK, I'll think. Done. History shows many QBs don't need that long, and that the first year is not indicator of which ones do. And JP showed enough promise to believe he could improve this year, and even more so if his surroundings improve.

Agreed and P They all still ignore FACT. a QB is a very major part of the TEAM. No QB on his own can lead a team to the superbowl. ALL Superbowl contending teams had good TEAMS around the QB. He was the last/Leadership piece of the puzzle.

Confidence is the #1 Thing a QB needs. Without a good defense, Without a 1/2 way decent line and running game, without good coaching, a QB is going to have none of these things.

There is one thing I hope JP takes from the 05 season. He saw the team sucked and tried to do it on his own, that was a mistake. I hope he takes the fact he can't do it on his own into this season. If he does, and if the staff helps him scheme and personel wise, JP will be fine this year.

[kgun12]

I never said JP sucked, I am saying that he is not a current answer for winning. Will he be in the future I cannot say but the answer is now. Tom Brady came off the bench and a dynasty began, kurt Warner came off the bench and won alot of games.

Why is it when I say we need to look around for a great leader at QB they lose it? JP is not ready for primetime folks, it's going to take 2-3 more years of watching and learning. Think about it.

:roflmao: :lol: :roflmao: :lol:

Ok I'm starting to think that skooby is just messing with everyone. There is no way he honestly makes this statement and believes there is a comparision. Seriously folks I think he is just screwing with us after reading this post! Really the only thing you can do after reading it is laugh!

You are comparing apples and oranges here skooby! N.E. and St. L both had a very good team when Brady and Warner came off the bench we do not have even a marginal team at this point! Come on man!

[Mitchy moo]

:roflmao: :lol: :roflmao: :lol:

Ok I'm starting to think that skooby is just messing with everyone. There is no way he honestly makes this statement and believes there is a comparision. Seriously folks I think he is just screwing with us after reading this post! Really the only thing you can do after reading it is laugh!

You are comparing apples and oranges here skooby! N.E. and St. L both had a very good team when Brady and Warner came off the bench we do not have even a marginal team at this point! Come on man!

I am just screwing with everyone, I am bored and it's the offseason. Your comment about us not even having a marginal team is sad but true, It really hurts as well.

[Italian Stallion]

I just hope that JP gets a chance to show the promise that I think he has. Hopefully Penis Jauron dosen't have his mind made up already about Smelly Kelly and is just using the comp. talk as a cover.

[kgun12]

I am just screwing with everyone, I am bored and it's the offseason. Your comment about us not even having a marginal team is sad but true, It really hurts as well.

I figured that out skooby! I'm bored also. :handball:

[TacklingDummy]

Hall of Famer QBs

Troy Aikmen - first two seasons starting
11 games played- 9 tds / 18 Ints / 6 fumbles - 1750 yards
15 games played- 11 tds / 18 Ints / 5 fumbles - 2800 yards

* in aikmans 11 year career, 7 out of 11 seasons resulted in more turnovers (ints and fumbles) than total touchdowns..



John Elway - first two seasons starting
11 games played - 8 tds / 14 Ints / 6 fumbles - 1660 yards
15 games played - 18 tds / 15 Ints / 14 fumbles - 2600 yards

* in John Elways career he had more Ints than Tds in 4 other seasons later in his career and never had more than 28 total tds in a season, ever. also, in his 16 year career 10 times, that is 10 out of 16, he had more total turnovers (ints and fumbles) and total touchdowns...



Steve Young - first two seasons starting

5 games started - 4 tds / 8 Ints / 4 fumbles - 940 yards
14 games started - 8 tds / 13 Ints / 11 fumbles - 2300 yards

* after those first two years, young was surrounded by a good team and was pretty much awesome throughout his career. only 2 more times out of his 14 years, only ONE time did his passer rating dip below 92%... but imagine that.. when surrounded by a bad team with a even worse oline, he looked terrible as a first and second year qb. so bad, he wasnt worth keeping.. i bet Tampa Bay doesnt regret giving up on Steve Young at all!



Some Current QBs - since the history of some hall of fame qbs probably doesnt hold much weight.. lets take a look at some current qbs who play todays game.

Carson Palmer - first 2 seasons starting

13 games started - 18 Tds / 18 Ints / 2 fumbles - 2870 yards
16 games played - 32 Tds / 12 Ints / 5 fumble - 3860 yards

* palmer struggled in his first year.. and he got almost double the amount of games losman did. if losman would have got a full year, he numbers from this past season show that he would have finished with right around the same numbers that palmer did as a first year starter.



Eli Manning - first two years starting

9 games played - 6 TDs / 9 Ints / 3 fumbles - 1040 yards
16 games played - 24 TDs / 17 Ints / 9 fumbles - 3760 yards

* WOW.. those numbers look a hell of a lot like another young qb that we have on our roster.. same amount of games played basically and the same numbers basically at that point.. his coach just didnt give up on him.. he responded by getting them in the playoffs in his second year as a starter.



Brett Favre - first two years started

15 games played - 18 TDs / 13 Ints / 12 Fumbles - 3200 yards
16 games played - 19 TDs / 24 Ints / 14 Fumbles - 3300 yards

.


Comparing JP to Hall of Fame QBs. LMAO

Busts......

Ryan Leaf

9 games played- 2TDs / 15 Ints / 1289 yards
11 games played - 11 Tds/ 16 Ints / 1883 yards

Akili Smith

7 games played - 2 Tds / 3 Ints / 805 yards
12 games played - 3 Tds / 6 Ints / 1253 yards

Heath Shuler

11 games played - 10 TDs/ 12 Ints / 1658 yards
7 games played - 3 Tds/ 7 Ints / 745 yards

Todd Marinovich

1 game played - 3 Tds / 0 Ints/ 243 yards
7 Games played - 5 TDs/ 9 Ints/ 1102 yards

Andre Ware

4 games played - 1 TD/ 2 Ints/ 164 yards
4 games played - 3 TDs / 4 Ints. / 677 yards

Rob Johnson

5 games played - 2 TDs/ 2 Ints/ 344 yards
8 games played - 8 Tds / 3 Ints / 910 yards

JP Losman

4 games played - 0 Tds/ 0 Ints / 32 yards
9 games played - 8 Tds/ 8 Ints / 1340 yards

JP is clearly comparable to Rob Johnson.

They both had around the same yardage their first 2 years, Rob had more TDs, Rob had less Ints., they both consistently get injuried, they both couldnt read a defense, they both made the O-line look worse then it really is, they both took sacks, they both were considered moblie QBs.

[Drive 4 Five]

And We are saying you are putting up the stupidest posts ever. And yeah it is WE.

I wouldn't get too cocky bub. Your posts are like the second stupidest ever.