No way Davis makes it to 8 now !!!!

[Bmax]

The temptation to draft davis at 8 would have been great ...more by fans then the bills . Now it seems we won't have to worry any more . After davis ran a 4.37 40 had a broad jump of 10-8 and showed well in drills he will be gone before pick 8. I could see teams trading up to get him or the raiders snatching him up at 7.


Bmax

[Devin]

Could be, hes had a great combine.

[ICE74129]

But the experts here say he isn't worth even #8.....

[HAMMER]

But the experts here say he isn't worth even #8.....

Do you have to be such a ***** all the time?

[Bulldog]

But the experts here say he isn't worth even #8.....

I think you're the one that needs to STFU!

[Devin]

:rofl:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Either way there should be a solid player for us at 8.

[Bill Cody]

Vernon Davis is a freak. If he lasts until 8 he is too good to pass up. I'd still be happy if we got a reasonable deal to trade up and take Brick though.

[ICE74129]

I think you're the one that needs to STFU!

Bite me

[ICE74129]

Do you have to be such a ***** all the time?
Just trying to act like the rest around here. when in rome....

[EricStratton]

Either way there should be a solid player for us at 8.


That's the way I look at it.

The more players shine the better off we will be at number 8 either to pick or trade.

[ICE74129]

That's the way I look at it.

The more players shine the better off we will be at number 8 either to pick or trade.

True, but damn. Jim Kelly talked this year about how important the TE is and how underused (due to lack of talent then lack of scheme) in the Buffalo offense.

I would love to see the fuggin patsies try to cover his ass 2x per year for the next 10 years.

[gr8slayer]

If he is there at eight and we pass him up someone needs to be shot.

[kgun12]

I sure hope he is gone by the time we pick. He my be a great player, but our problems go WAAAAAAAAAY deeper than TE. So I guess I'm one of those so called experts ICE. Yes if we didn't need OL, DL, CB, S, and WR probably in that order, I would say HELL YES let's take a TE.

[gr8slayer]

I sure hope he is gone by the time we pick. He my be a great player, but our problems go WAAAAAAAAAY deeper than TE. So I guess I'm one of those so called experts ICE. Yes if we didn't need OL, DL, CB, S, and WR probably in that order, I would say HELL YES let's take a TE.
But if you really think about it a TE can open up your Offense like no other position. Look at what Shockey did for the Giants. Look what Gonzales does for the Chiefs. Look at what Gates does for the Chargers. A good, athletic TE can open up EVERYTHING on Offese. Just imagine us having a Shockey, Gonzales or Gates on our team and what it could do for Losman.

[hydro]

I sure hope he is gone by the time we pick. He my be a great player, but our problems go WAAAAAAAAAY deeper than TE. So I guess I'm one of those so called experts ICE. Yes if we didn't need OL, DL, CB, S, and WR probably in that order, I would say HELL YES let's take a TE.

Kinda like how Pittsburgh really didn't have any glaring needs, and just went with Heath Miller. I guess that worked out pretty well.

[kgun12]

But if you really think about it a TE can open up your Offense like no other position. Look at what Shockey did for the Giants. Look what Gonzales does for the Chiefs. Look at what Gates does for the Chargers. A good, athletic TE can open up EVERYTHING on Offese. Just imagine us having a Shockey, Gonzales or Gates on our team and what it could do for Losman.

Were right Shockey did great when the Giants line was healthly, then they lost 2 starting OL and Shockey's numbers at the end of the season went south. I you don't have an OL nothing else matter on offense.

[kgun12]

Kinda like how Pittsburgh really didn't have any glaring needs, and just went with Heath Miller. I guess that worked out pretty well.

Your right Pitt didn't have any other GLARING weakness when they picked Miller. Thanks for making my point!

[ICE74129]

Kinda like how Pittsburgh really didn't have any glaring needs, and just went with Heath Miller. I guess that worked out pretty well.

Cowher was on yesterday and said 'any time you can get the top rated guy at his position and he is an impact player, you take him. Esp if it is a need'.

TE is a need. Not since the days of McKellar and Metz have we had a TE worth a damn. Career backups across the board. Davis can be a probowler in no time at all and is an impact player. One that could drastically impact how good our offense can be.

[Saratoga Slim]

I buy the Davis hype. But I will be a little disappointed if Brick or Mario Williams is on the board and we take him. I want to see the lines beefed up before anything else. Of course, my outlook may change depending on how successful a free agency we have.

[mysticsoto]

But if you really think about it a TE can open up your Offense like no other position. Look at what Shockey did for the Giants. Look what Gonzales does for the Chiefs. Look at what Gates does for the Chargers. A good, athletic TE can open up EVERYTHING on Offese. Just imagine us having a Shockey, Gonzales or Gates on our team and what it could do for Losman.

With the current state of our Oline, Davis would be blocking full time and useless.

If we could address both the Oline and Dline in FA, then I'd say sure - but I'm not as confident on being able to do that as you are. We would need to get Bentley, and move Preston to LG (that's doable). Then we also need a DT next to Sam Adams...possibly 2 if we lose Sam (which I think would be a mistake). Ted Washington is then not a feasible option since he and Sam are older and will be needing frequent rests. We will need someone younger and with more energy. Only then, would I even consider someone like Davis. Truth is, even our Safeties need replacing and grooming a new CB to replace Clements next year (likely) is something to take into consideration.

There are alot of things we need to do, and in general, people grab a top TE when everything else in their offense is set - kind of like Pittsburgh did last year!

I love changes to create a mismatch - for a long time, I wanted Peters to stay at TE! But you have to do what's best overall for the team - and without strong lines, we will never move forward. It's no suprise that in the last decade or so, we've gone no where...and a big piece in all that time is that we've had a crappy Oline!!!

[Akhippo]

As much as we need lines, if Davis is there you have to seriously consider him. TE seems to be the position that defenses have the most problem covering. I would just hope that he isnt another M Mamula, all show and no substance.

At 8 it seems like well get a player of some significance. I would take at this moment. Ferguson, Williams, Davis, Ngata, then Hawk. We need line in a bad way so its hard to say.

[kgun12]

Cowher was on yesterday and said 'any time you can get the top rated guy at his position and he is an impact player, you take him. Esp if it is a need'.

TE is a need. Not since the days of McKellar and Metz have we had a TE worth a damn. Career backups across the board. Davis can be a probowler in no time at all and is an impact player. One that could drastically impact how good our offense can be.

Ice is TE our #1 need? I will look it up, but if you look at the Giants stats this year there is a huge drop in prodution after they lost 2 Olinemen. It wasn't as bad after the lost the first guy, but when the second guy went down so did the offense. Having said that if the Bills address there MORE pressing needs like OL, DE, S and CB via FA then by all means takeDavis at #8. I just think we have to fix these positions first!

[Jeff1220]

If Davis is there at #8, some team might give the Bills a nice deal to trade that pick away.

[HAMMER]

But if you really think about it a TE can open up your Offense like no other position. Look at what Shockey did for the Giants. Look what Gonzales does for the Chiefs. Look at what Gates does for the Chargers. A good, athletic TE can open up EVERYTHING on Offese. Just imagine us having a Shockey, Gonzales or Gates on our team and what it could do for Losman.

It will do nothing for Losman, unless he has a line to give him time to throw the ball to the TE. Another shiny new penny for the window lickers on the Special Ed. bus, Ice is driving.

[Mitchy moo]

:drive: :shortbus:
It will do nothing for Losman, unless he has a line to give him time to throw the ball to the TE. Another shiny new penny for the window lickers on the Special Ed. bus, Ice is driving.

:drive: :shortbus:, :lol!:

[camelcowboy]

I love the way this draft is shaping up for us. With all these rising players Cutler, Davis, Ngata, moving into the top ten. That just means a great player could be had at 8, or we could get alot of value if we trade down.

[justasportsfan]

But if you really think about it a TE can open up your Offense like no other position. Look at what Shockey did for the Giants. Look what Gonzales does for the Chiefs. Look at what Gates does for the Chargers. A good, athletic TE can open up EVERYTHING on Offese. Just imagine us having a Shockey, Gonzales or Gates on our team and what it could do for Losman. If we end up getting him, we better grab some OL in FA'cy or he's gonna end up blocking for us.

[patmoran2006]

I said this BEFORE the combine (and yes I will pat my back)

I dont care what other needs we have.. ADDRESS THEM.. but address them through Free Agency and rounds 2-3-4 in the draft, please!

Vernon Davis will be the best player in this draft.. PERIOD.. Better than Brick.. Better than Mario.. Better than Bush.. Best player in the draft, end of story..

I will take potentially the ULTIMATE playmaking TE in the NFL and build my offense around him, ANYDAY..

[onceproudbillsfan]

So a franchise TE. Wow the chiefs and chargers have them and did they make the playoffs. I dont think so!!!!!!!!!!! It is a proven fact you need an Oline. Look at all the teams that made the playoffs. They could run the ball and stop the run!! You have to win the fight in the trenches to make it to the next level period. So forget TE. We need an Oline to block for our franchise running back. If he has a good oline he will be a top five back in all the nfl. Especially in Buffalo when the weather is bad in december you need a good running game plain and simple.

[losman2evans]

remember Tony Hunter 1983 draft- we took him before Jim Kelly

a can't miss TE from Notre Dame


TE position scares me


then there is Mike Williams - now I am paranoid about taking offensive lineman

then there is Perry Tuttle wr 1982 so I am cautious about wr



then there is Erik Flowers IN 2000 So there goes DE.

our best success has come in dbs- so i would trade down and pick up Huff or Williams =maybe picking up an extra second rounder- grabbing Mangold and Lutui
in the second.

[HHURRICANE]

I sure hope he is gone by the time we pick. He my be a great player, but our problems go WAAAAAAAAAY deeper than TE. So I guess I'm one of those so called experts ICE. Yes if we didn't need OL, DL, CB, S, and WR probably in that order, I would say HELL YES let's take a TE.

Good post. People around here piss me off. Our OL and DL's suck but we are going to take a TE after we drafted one last year, again. WTF!! Does anybody watch the games? A TE is not going to help, no matter what, especially if you don't have 3 seconds to throw the ball! You have to fix the root causes which are protecting the passer and establishing the run. And on Defense being able to create a pass rush to take pressure off the secondary. PERIOD!!!

[X-Era]

With the current state of our Oline, Davis would be blocking full time and useless.

If we could address both the Oline and Dline in FA, then I'd say sure - but I'm not as confident on being able to do that as you are. We would need to get Bentley, and move Preston to LG (that's doable). Then we also need a DT next to Sam Adams...possibly 2 if we lose Sam (which I think would be a mistake). Ted Washington is then not a feasible option since he and Sam are older and will be needing frequent rests. We will need someone younger and with more energy. Only then, would I even consider someone like Davis. Truth is, even our Safeties need replacing and grooming a new CB to replace Clements next year (likely) is something to take into consideration.

There are alot of things we need to do, and in general, people grab a top TE when everything else in their offense is set - kind of like Pittsburgh did last year!

I love changes to create a mismatch - for a long time, I wanted Peters to stay at TE! But you have to do what's best overall for the team - and without strong lines, we will never move forward. It's no suprise that in the last decade or so, we've gone no where...and a big piece in all that time is that we've had a crappy Oline!!!

Ya know whats a bit ridiculous about this post? Its seems so logical until you think about who will or wont be there at 8.

Who exactly makes so much difference for us on EITHER line thats likely to be there? Ngata? He and maybe Winston Justice are the only 2. Ngata, outside of a great bench, didnt do much to impress me.

Last time I checked theres no less than 5 O-line players that Taylor/Seymour/or Abraham can blast through. All they need to do is shift a bit, and pick a new hole with a new player or players that all of you will claim needs to be replaced with a high round pick. That, in a way, de-values the need to add 1 single stud o-lineman to the mix over a potential all pro TE.

Its potential value to the team. The Bills have probably NEVER had a Gates type TE. Ask SD whether that team would trade Gates for Ogden and who means more as far as productiuon on that team. BTW, there is only ONE player (D'Brick) who looks to be the next Ogden.

I have no arguement with your take that O and D lines are more important, they are. But at 8, theres no one likely to be there who is more valuable as of now than Davis. Its a matter of best player regardless of position and Davis jsut sky rocketed.

[kgun12]

So a franchise TE. Wow the chiefs and chargers have them and did they make the playoffs. I dont think so!!!!!!!!!!! It is a proven fact you need an Oline. Look at all the teams that made the playoffs. They could run the ball and stop the run!! You have to win the fight in the trenches to make it to the next level period. So forget TE. We need an Oline to block for our franchise running back. If he has a good oline he will be a top five back in all the nfl. Especially in Buffalo when the weather is bad in december you need a good running game plain and simple.

Great post I was going to write almost the exact same thing then I read this. :bullseye:

[kgun12]

Good post. People around here piss me off. Our OL and DL's suck but we are going to take a TE after we drafted one last year, again. WTF!! Does anybody watch the games? A TE is not going to help, no matter what, especially if you don't have 3 seconds to throw the ball! You have to fix the root causes which are protecting the passer and establishing the run. And on Defense being able to create a pass rush to take pressure off the secondary. PERIOD!!!

Come on man we all know the greatest football teams in the history of the NFL were as bad as the Bills at one point and the all started rebuilding their 5-11 team around nunother than the TE position! It doesn't matter that the lines need fixing, but a TE will open more passing lanes and opprotunities. How this will help when the QB is flat on his back beats me, but we will have an elite TE. Boy howdy!

[X-Era]

Great post I was going to write almost the exact same thing then I read this. :bullseye:

Great, now that thats over, we can go back to focusing on the o-line.

Ohh wait, who is worthy of the 8 pick on teh o-line? Wait, your the Bills GM and your on the clock, who are you picking taht solves that o-line problem at 8? D'Brick is long gone. Whos that stud OL? tick, tick, tick.

OK, whos that DT thats gonna be THE player to lead us to the playoffs thats at 8? tick, tick, tick.

Im waiting. Ive made the arguement about what Davis brgings to the table. You tell me who your saying we need to take at 8, and then argue why that player is so worth the 8 pick.

[kgun12]

Great, now that thats over, we can go back to focusing on the o-line.

Ohh wait, who is worthy of the 8 pick on teh o-line? Wait, your the Bills GM and your on the clock, who are you picking taht solves that o-line problem at 8? D'Brick is long gone. Whos that stud OL? tick, tick, tick.

OK, whos that DT thats gonna be THE player to lead us to the playoffs thats at 8? tick, tick, tick.

Im waiting. Ive made the arguement about what Davis brgings to the table. You tell me who your saying we need to take at 8, and then argue why that player is so worth the 8 pick.

Oh wait oh wait (what the hell is that?)

He's what you do and I have said this before. Trade out of that position. Get a better value pick for your Oline or Dline and add a pick or 2 in the process. If no team wants to trade, take the top CB, but one thing I know you don't do with EVERYTHING else we need is take a freakin TE. That is laughable, look at the teams with a great TE what were they doing during the SB, NOT PLAYING!!! I cannot believe you guys are serious. This is getting crazy, the desire to win has clouded peoples judgement. Some starts a thread on weather we should go after a kicker, make a point about how well he has done over the last several years and folks go goofy for a kicker. We have one very expensive but did a damn fine jog last year. To cut him and bring in Vinatri or Vandy would eat up more money we need to fix the real problems on this team and that is the O/Dlines. If we fix them in FA then go to the next problem our CB/S, then WR, then if we fix all that pick your freakin TE in the daft, BUT YOU DON'T START TO REBUILD A 5-11 TEAM WITH A TE AT #8!!!!! Sorry if I am from the old school which BTW has been the formula for success for 40 years in the NFL, but it all starts with the horses on the lines!

[L.A. Playa]

remember Tony Hunter 1983 draft- we took him before Jim Kelly

a can't miss TE from Notre Dame


TE position scares me


then there is Mike Williams - now I am paranoid about taking offensive lineman

then there is Perry Tuttle wr 1982 so I am cautious about wr



then there is Erik Flowers IN 2000 So there goes DE.

our best success has come in dbs- so i would trade down and pick up Huff or Williams =maybe picking up an extra second rounder- grabbing Mangold and Lutui
in the second.

remember JD Williams

[X-Era]

Oh wait oh wait (what the hell is that?)

He's what you do and I have said this before. Trade out of that position. Get a better value pick for your Oline or Dline and add a pick or 2 in the process. If no team wants to trade, take the top CB, but one thing I know you don't do with EVERYTHING else we need is take a freakin TE. That is laughable, look at the teams with a great TE what were they doing during the SB, NOT PLAYING!!! I cannot believe you guys are serious. This is getting crazy, the desire to win has clouded peoples judgement. Some starts a thread on weather we should go after a kicker, make a point about how well he has done over the last several years and folks go goofy for a kicker. We have one very expensive but did a damn fine jog last year. To cut him and bring in Vinatri or Vandy would eat up more money we need to fix the real problems on this team and that is the O/Dlines. If we fix them in FA then go to the next problem our CB/S, then WR, then if we fix all that pick your freakin TE in the daft, BUT YOU DON'T START TO REBUILD A 5-11 TEAM WITH A TE AT #8!!!!! Sorry if I am from the old school which BTW has been the formula for success for 40 years in the NFL, but it all starts with the horses on the lines!

You are old school, and if you havent noticed, the game has changed, and so should you.

That was a nice dodge at a direct question. Your at 8, and NO ONE offers a second to you to trade down. Who do you take? Lets say you just cant get a trade partner thats giving you value, your at 8, who do you take?

Quit dodging and answer.

I dont deny that the lines are where it all starts, but you (and others) act like the draft is one round long. IT AINT!!!

Im telling you right now that the best value in this draft is in the 2nd round for this team. Its likely we can get the BEST G or C, one of trhe top 3 OT's, one of the top 3 DT's. So why in the hell cant we take the best player available who could be an all pro TE at 8? Convince me that a OL or DT is the must have pick at 8. Convince me that teams are gonna trade their 1st and 2nd to us to move up to 8. Its FAR from a sure thing.

[kgun12]

You are old school, and if you havent noticed, the game has changed, and so should you.

That was a nice dodge at a direct question. Your at 8, and NO ONE offers a second to you to trade down. Who do you take? Lets say you just cant get a trade partner thats giving you value, your at 8, who do you take?

Quit dodging and answer.

I dont deny that the lines are where it all starts, but you (and others) act like the draft is one round long. IT AINT!!!

Im telling you right now that the best value in this draft is in the 2nd round for this team. Its likely we can get the BEST G or C, one of trhe top 3 OT's, one of the top 3 DT's. So why in the hell cant we take the best player available who could be an all pro TE at 8? Convince me that a OL or DT is the must have pick at 8. Convince me that teams are gonna trade their 1st and 2nd to us to move up to 8. Its FAR from a sure thing.

What the hell are you talking about "dodging "read the post again, I said I would take the highest rated DB on the board.

As far as old school I think the formula still work, just look at Pittsburg and Seattle 2 GREAT olines 2 GREAT dline, great running games, good passing game, and both stop the run great and defende the pass really well. No I don't think I will change, cause I know the old school works. Going new school keeps us at 5-11, but it is amuzing to read thanks!!!

[Bmax]

Don't worry he won't be there at 8.... trust me...He will be gone ......Say hello to the raiders......


Bmax

[Night Train]

The intelligent people at OBD will rank the players as the Best Athlete Available and will not reach for a need. I'm sure Ferguson,Williams,Davis,Huff,Hawk,Bush,Ngata and some QB's are part of that group. Outside of the QB's, whoever is the highest ranked player left will be selected by the Bills. To say a Davis or Huff couldn't help this team in major way is just being blind to your own opinion.

March Free Agency is when you ID a proven player who fills a need at a critical position. In reading some of these prior posts, it's amazing how many folks don't even consider FA as a way to fill some positions.

[mysticsoto]

Ya know whats a bit ridiculous about this post? Its seems so logical until you think about who will or wont be there at 8.

Who exactly makes so much difference for us on EITHER line thats likely to be there? Ngata? He and maybe Winston Justice are the only 2. Ngata, outside of a great bench, didnt do much to impress me.

Last time I checked theres no less than 5 O-line players that Taylor/Seymour/or Abraham can blast through. All they need to do is shift a bit, and pick a new hole with a new player or players that all of you will claim needs to be replaced with a high round pick. That, in a way, de-values the need to add 1 single stud o-lineman to the mix over a potential all pro TE.

Its potential value to the team. The Bills have probably NEVER had a Gates type TE. Ask SD whether that team would trade Gates for Ogden and who means more as far as productiuon on that team. BTW, there is only ONE player (D'Brick) who looks to be the next Ogden.

I have no arguement with your take that O and D lines are more important, they are. But at 8, theres no one likely to be there who is more valuable as of now than Davis. Its a matter of best player regardless of position and Davis jsut sky rocketed.

You know what? After seeing Davis's combine workout and hearing an interview from him, I have had a change of heart. I still consider the Oline and Dline more important, but the Oline will probably be fine as long as we get a top guard (Davin Joseph) or top Center (Mangold) in the 2nd rd. That's VERY doable. I think Preston is good and we'll have a serviceable Oline. Dline we will need to work hard in FA for. We need someone next to Sam Adams - and given that the style of defense is going to change, we don't necessarily need a big huge run stuffer anymore. In fact, we probably need one that is going to charge after the QB like Sam Adams does. But this is an absolute need to get in FA. We can't expect to get a top DT in the 3rd rd.

If we are able to get a decent DT in FA and possibly even Bentley for Center, I would not have a problem with getting Davis with our #8 pick. The guy is a TE trapped in a LB's body with super speed. Davis has become officially the fastest TE ever at the combine!!! He is extremely impressive not only with his physical attributes, but with his attitude and personality!!!

I have, very suprisingly, joined the Davis bandwagon!!! Again...as long as we address the lines strongly in FA!!!

[X-Era]

You know what? After seeing Davis's combine workout and hearing an interview from him, I have had a change of heart. I still consider the Oline and Dline more important, but the Oline will probably be fine as long as we get a top guard (Davin Joseph) or top Center (Mangold) in the 2nd rd. That's VERY doable. I think Preston is good and we'll have a serviceable Oline. Dline we will need to work hard in FA for. We need someone next to Sam Adams - and given that the style of defense is going to change, we don't necessarily need a big huge run stuffer anymore. In fact, we probably need one that is going to charge after the QB like Sam Adams does. But this is an absolute need to get in FA. We can't expect to get a top DT in the 3rd rd.

If we are able to get a decent DT in FA and possibly even Bentley for Center, I would not have a problem with getting Davis with our #8 pick. The guy is a TE trapped in a LB's body with super speed. Davis has become officially the fastest TE ever at the combine!!! He is extremely impressive not only with his physical attributes, but with his attitude and personality!!!

I have, very suprisingly, joined the Davis bandwagon!!! Again...as long as we address the lines strongly in FA!!!

Completely agree with this post :posrep:

[Philagape]

But if you really think about it a TE can open up your Offense like no other position. Look at what Shockey did for the Giants. Look what Gonzales does for the Chiefs. Look at what Gates does for the Chargers. A good, athletic TE can open up EVERYTHING on Offese. Just imagine us having a Shockey, Gonzales or Gates on our team and what it could do for Losman.

Plus, those teams don't have great WRs. A great TE makes up for that, and that makes it even more of a need for us since our WR depth will be seriously depleted.

[X-Era]

Plus, those teams don't have great WRs. A great TE makes up for that, and that makes it even more of a need for us since our WR depth will be seriously depleted.

Thats exactly it.

Davis forces a DB and LB to cover him, Evans is more open downfield, and Losman has a underneath short route always open to keep drives moving.

[kgun12]

Thats exactly it.

Davis forces a DB and LB to cover him, Evans is more open downfield, and Losman has a underneath short route always open to keep drives moving.

If your worry is to have the short route open underneath to keep a drive going, any or all of the TE on this team right now are capable of that. So why waste our 1st round pick on a TE. Besides without an oline it will be hard for JP to throw the ball from his back. Look if we get a couple of good olinemen in FA then MAYBE this isn't that bad of a pick, barring that we have to address our most glaring problem, and the strenght of any team and that is both sides of the line. Until we do that all this talk about this is silly.

[Bmax]

If your worry is to have the short route open underneath to keep a drive going, any or all of the TE on this team right now are capable of that. So why waste our 1st round pick on a TE. Besides without an oline it will be hard for JP to throw the ball from his back. Look if we get a couple of good olinemen in FA then MAYBE this isn't that bad of a pick, barring that we have to address our most glaring problem, and the strenght of any team and that is both sides of the line. Until we do that all this talk about this is silly.



Finally some one on this board that get it......

Funny everybody wanted Donahoe fired ...But if they were GM they would screw up the team the same way he did ....By ignoring the lines...


Bmax