Ngata - not so incredible

[Tatonka]

all i have heard is how incredible ngata would be.. what a physical specimen he is.. how he would bench 225 41 times.. how he runs a 4.8 with the grace of a gazell.

well a 5.13 40 yard dash is about sam adams speed.. hell, gabe watson ran it in 5.02.

none of his times were that good.. and he did 37 reps, which was supposed to be over 40.

so once again, the guy doesnt perform when he needs to.. imho, he just dropped down to the browns..

i am glad to see it though.. i was hoping that he would either work out so well that he would move up above us, or do poorly so that it would clearly look like he is a reach at 8, which is what he did.

so let the ngata talk end. overrated. and as far as i know.. he doesnt have an excuse this time, like he seems to have every time he plays poorly in a game.. his hamster is still alive.. his didnt bump his knee.

[Das_Bills]

Well there is another Mock Draft and it show we getting Ngata


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ao1ugrB6gjk_xJNhI8ljv99DubYF?slug=cr-mockdraft022206&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Steve

[Tatonka]

mock drafts are like *******s.. everyone has one.

[TigerJ]

The combine will hurt Ngata. He'll look less like the Bills pick in the next round of mocks.

[NorthCarBills]

I agree...
This is why I'm all for trading that 8 pick and moving down on the board. I think the draft is stocked full of great guards that could make an immediate impact, and they'd be available late in the first round, early second.

The depth at OT is relatively thin if you're talking about solid first round projections (e.g. Brick and maybe Justice). Unless we trade up to get Brick -which I don't agree with - I think stocking up on extra picks if possible is a great move.

The DTs worth taking this year seem to be a best value somewhere in the third and fourth rounds, and I think we'll be addressing that spot in FA anyway, which gives mid round picks time to develop under guys like Sam and whatever veteran(s) we pickup.

By the way, another option with extra early round picks is safety. Does anyone know of solid second or early third round safeties worth taking? I know usually they are late round picks but sometimes there are exceptions. We need some solid depth at that position badly.

[Jan Reimers]

Any team that bases its draft picks on combine numbers may very well wind up with the next Mike Williams, Ryan Leaf, Tony Manderich or Brian Bosworth.

There is a real danger in over analyzing combine performances.

[Philagape]

A prospect's greatest asset, and I think Levy would agree, is his heart. There have been so many physical freaks that have come and gone because they didn't give their all that they have become the definition of bust. They relied strictly on their physical skills, but that's not enough in the NFL. I think we just let one go, didn't we?
So don't tell me about his height and weight and times and body mass ... tell me if he goes hard, if his motor doesn't quit, if he gives his all.

[ICE74129]

Just like moving up, to move down you need a partner. I am not willing to trade out of the #8 spot for just another (lower than our #8 pick) 2nd round pick. Either move up, Trade down with Denver for both of thier firsts or sit at 8 and take an impact athlete.

With the Jets trying to work a deal with the Texans to get Cutler, That means more athletes possibly move down to us that wouldnt have been there. If New Orleans takes a QB I bet Tenn takes Reggie Bush. Then what for the Texans? D'brickshaw. The raiders or niners will take Davis. So it looks like a damn good athlete might make it our way outside of Ngata

[ICE74129]

A prospect's greatest asset, and I think Levy would agree, is his heart. There have been so many physical freaks that have come and gone because they didn't give their all that they have become the definition of bust. They relied strictly on their physical skills, but that's not enough in the NFL. I think we just let one go, didn't we?
So don't tell me about his height and weight and times and body mass ... tell me if he goes hard, if his motor doesn't quit, if he gives his all.

Do you know who impressed Butch Davis the most out of the DT's? Dusty Dvoracek. Good skills, not the top guy, but never quits and thrives on doing the dirty work.

[tampabay25690]

Well there is another Mock Draft and it show we getting Ngata


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ao1ugrB6gjk_xJNhI8ljv99DubYF?slug=cr-mockdraft022206&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Steve

I have seen about 20 moch drafts and half of them have us taking NGATA.....SO it really doesnt mean anything at all...

[mysticsoto]

I thought it was interesting that the Bills haven't apparently met with Ngata. According to draftshowcase.com he's met with the Giants, Bengals, Raiders and Rams. The Raiders might have taken him with their 1st if he had a strong combine, but he really didn't, so now he might fall lower...

[Bmax]

Tonk and other Ngata dobters i guess most scouts are wrong and you guys are right......Well the evaluation process is still on going.. GM'S and scouts will go over all his film.. check out his pro day and talk to all his coaches from high school on up...Some guys don't work out well and are great players...


However this is not the case with Ngata who had a good workout..No he was not vernon davis but who was....He is not that type of player.. Think Ted washington.. The guy had a poor work out scouts were down on him and he turned out pretty good...He was selected in the 1st rd pick 25 i believe.

At 6-4 -338 if he ran a 4.8 he would be a top 5 pick or better.. 37 reps is prettty good....all reports i read or heard said he had a pretty good workout...I guess it is simply a matter of philosophy when it comes to ngata...I love a big pocket pushing stuffer ala ted washinton to solidify our middle...Tim anderson, justin bannan and sape just can't get it done. If you prefer this quick penetrating dt then cool..ALA SAPP OR BUNKELY....

Some of us on this board (Kgun) firmly believe that you must build the front lines before you can go with the skill guys like davis...Marv levy knows talent .. He also knows that when he went to the super bowl he had ballard and wilford and burce and phil hansen...WE DON'T HAVE THOSE GUYS ......

I wiill make it simple for those who love davis and skill players at #8.. Offense sells tickets.. Defense wins championships....With out the ability to stop the run we will continue to lose games ....Free agency will help but how much ? Ryan Pickett could help but we still need another Dt...Sam adams even if he stays will only stay for a season or two at the most.

Our off line problems are well documented we should bring in one to two free agents and draft at least two prospects one on day 1. Oh here are the real numbers on Ngata and watson.... and the comments from the combine.


Bmax



Haloti Ngata Oregon 6041 338 5.23 5.12
Rob Ninkovich Purdue 6031 260 4.92 4.94
Melvin Oliver LSU 6036 276 INJ
Babatunde Oshinowo Stanford 6015 304 5.38 5.33
Domata Peko Michigan State 6026 307 5.32 5.38
Matthew Rice Penn State 6040 271 DNR
Frostee Rucker USC 6032 267 4.99 4.83
Le Kevin Smith Nebraska 6027 316 5.05 5.07
Montavious Stanley Louisville 6021 313 5.22 5.20
Darryl Tapp Virginia Tech 6015 262 4.84 4.86
Gabriel Watson Michigan 6034 339 5.25 5.32
Kyle Williams LSU 6012 299 5.17 5.16
Mario Williams North Carolina State 6070 295 4.74 4.69
Kamerion Wimbley Florida State 6037 248 4.63 4.64
Rodrique Wright Texas 6051 300 5.06 5.08
Claude Wroten LSU 6020 302 DNR
James Wyche Syracuse 6053 262 4.63 4.71

Practice Notes:

Mario Williams solidified himself as one of the top four players in this draft. After running well his workout was outstanding. Several scouts say Williams is just plain big and nasty.

Williams' North Carolina State teammate, Manny Lawson, also solidified himself as a fist round choice. While many will concentrate on Lawson's outstanding 40-times, he displayed great range and quickness in the practice session.

And a third member of the Wolfpack, John McCargo also looked solid.

Improving on a fine showing at the Senior Bowl, Kamerion Wimbley was outstanding during the practice session. Explosive and displaying great feet, Wimbley also stood out in linebacker drills. Wimbley's Seminole teammate, Brodrick Bunkley also showed well.

Ohio State's Mike Kudla moved into the draft's initial 60-picks. While his workout numbers will be the talk of the town, like Wimberly, Kudla showed great movement skills and looked good during linebacker drills.

Saving what was a lost junior campaign and questionable choice to enter the draft, Ray Edwards looked good all day. The most impressive thing about Edwards is he looks almost skinny at 273 pounds and offers plenty of room for growth.

Stanley McClover of Auburn looked very athletic and impressed at 262 pounds.

Gabe Watson was solid at the start then faded. Though not outstanding, Haloti Ngata also showed well.

After a pair of disappointing 40-times, Parys Haralson showed well in the line and linebacker drills. Quick and explosive, Haralson was solid all day.

Another SEC defender, Mark Anderson, also stood out. Displaying great explosion, Anderson was fast in every direction and showed well when run through a battery of linebacker drills.

Copeland Bryan, Barry Cofield, Chris Gocong, Jason Hatcher, Ryan Lacasse, Rob Ninkovich and James Wyche all turned in solid days of work.

On the flip side Mathias Kiwanuka watched his grade slip, almost as much due to the performances of other prospects as anything else.

Elvis Dumervil did not workout because of an injury after a pair of poor forty times and continues to move through the second day.

Johnny Jolly of Texas A&M was just bad.


My take -He held his own......which means his stock probably stayed where it was #1 dt top ten pick.....

[Bmax]

Any team that bases its draft picks on combine numbers may very well wind up with the next Mike Williams, Ryan Leaf, Tony Manderich or Brian Bosworth.

There is a real danger in over analyzing combine performances.



Great Jan ... Remember Mike Mamula...BC Drafted by Philly....What a BUST.. !!!!


Bmax...

[Tatonka]

hey bmax.. scouts are wrong ALL THE TIME..

look at all the first rounds of all the drafts over the history of the nfl... very few pan out to be the all star they were supposed to be.

[Devin]

While I was dissapointed with his 40 times (hes run a 4.84 before) I dont put to much weight into it. One of the few times I agree with Mayock.

When asked if his 40 times bothered him:

"Hes a DT....not a WR, I am more interested in his 10 (yard) times.
He is far and away the best DT in this draft."

I didnt like his 40 either, but im not gonna say this is the be-all end-all decision maker.

[TedMock]

While I was dissapointed with his 40 times (hes run a 4.84 before) I dont put to much weight into it. One of the few times I agree with Mayock.

When asked if his 40 times bothered him:

"Hes a DT....not a WR, I am more interested in his 10 (yard) times.
He is far and away the best DT in this draft."

I didnt like his 40 either, but im not gonna say this is the be-all end-all decision maker.

Not that I'm super high on this guy because I haven't really watched him play much, but is a 5.13 really that bad for a 330+ pound DT? Not really. It's right about average. Of course our DT's will NEVER run 40 yards anyway. The short (10 or fewer yards) quickness is far and away much more important. 37 reps at 225 is very good no matter what, so that didn't hurt his stock. If he has no heart, screw him. If he's a player, than go for it.

[Jan Reimers]

While I was dissapointed with his 40 times (hes run a 4.84 before) I dont put to much weight into it. One of the few times I agree with Mayock.

When asked if his 40 times bothered him:

"Hes a DT....not a WR, I am more interested in his 10 (yard) times.
He is far and away the best DT in this draft."

I didnt like his 40 either, but im not gonna say this is the be-all end-all decision maker.
I was going to make a similar point, i.e., how important is a 40 time to a DT? If he has 3 or 4 fairly quick steps, he can wreak havoc in the backfield. DTs should be disruptive in small spaces and good run stuffers, rather than guys who chase down skill position players from behind.

[mysticsoto]

Not that I'm super high on this guy because I haven't really watched him play much, but is a 5.13 really that bad for a 330+ pound DT? Not really. It's right about average. Of course our DT's will NEVER run 40 yards anyway. The short (10 or fewer yards) quickness is far and away much more important. 37 reps at 225 is very good no matter what, so that didn't hurt his stock. If he has no heart, screw him. If he's a player, than go for it.


And that's a concern for me. I don't know if he has a heart and I've heard no analyst mention that he has one. All the analysts ever mention of him is that he is big and strong. Yeah, Mike Williams was supposed to be big and strong. Look how he panned out? I want someone with heart. I want a go-getter. I want someone with a Type A personality that will never be satisfied with himself and will constantly strive to improve. I've seen that from Davis, which is why I like him now. I know DT is a big need for us. But Marv needs to work hard in FA to get what we need. DT in FA becomes even more important that Oline b'cse we could draft Mangold to start at Center or the FO should know if Preston is ready to start. And we could grab a top guard in rd 2 if Preston is ready. Our rd 2 pick, together with Preston, will fill the the Oline holes. But the 3rd rd is too late to fill a hole in at DT. So we need someone next to Adams that can get into the backfield and disrupt. That should be top priority!

[ZacGriffi~82]

I thought it was interesting that the Bills haven't apparently met with Ngata. According to draftshowcase.com he's met with the Giants, Bengals, Raiders and Rams. The Raiders might have taken him with their 1st if he had a strong combine, but he really didn't, so now he might fall lower...

Bills | Team will meet with Ngata
Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:41:15 -0800
During his NFL Combine interview, Oregon DT Haloti Ngata said he will meet with the Buffalo Bills at the Combine. Ngata said he has seen himself projected as going to the Bills. He added it would be cool to play with Bills DT Sam Adams and to learn from him.

[X-Era]

Tonk and other Ngata dobters i guess most scouts are wrong and you guys are right......Well the evaluation process is still on going.. GM'S and scouts will go over all his film.. check out his pro day and talk to all his coaches from high school on up...Some guys don't work out well and are great players...


However this is not the case with Ngata who had a good workout..No he was not vernon davis but who was....He is not that type of player.. Think Ted washington.. The guy had a poor work out scouts were down on him and he turned out pretty good...He was selected in the 1st rd pick 25 i believe.

At 6-4 -338 if he ran a 4.8 he would be a top 5 pick or better.. 37 reps is prettty good....all reports i read or heard said he had a pretty good workout...I guess it is simply a matter of philosophy when it comes to ngata...I love a big pocket pushing stuffer ala ted washinton to solidify our middle...Tim anderson, justin bannan and sape just can't get it done. If you prefer this quick penetrating dt then cool..ALA SAPP OR BUNKELY....

Some of us on this board (Kgun) firmly believe that you must build the front lines before you can go with the skill guys like davis...Marv levy knows talent .. He also knows that when he went to the super bowl he had ballard and wilford and burce and phil hansen...WE DON'T HAVE THOSE GUYS ......

I wiill make it simple for those who love davis and skill players at #8.. Offense sells tickets.. Defense wins championships....With out the ability to stop the run we will continue to lose games ....Free agency will help but how much ? Ryan Pickett could help but we still need another Dt...Sam adams even if he stays will only stay for a season or two at the most.

Our off line problems are well documented we should bring in one to two free agents and draft at least two prospects one on day 1. Oh here are the real numbers on Ngata and watson.... and the comments from the combine.


Bmax



Haloti Ngata Oregon 6041 338 5.23 5.12
Rob Ninkovich Purdue 6031 260 4.92 4.94
Melvin Oliver LSU 6036 276 INJ
Babatunde Oshinowo Stanford 6015 304 5.38 5.33
Domata Peko Michigan State 6026 307 5.32 5.38
Matthew Rice Penn State 6040 271 DNR
Frostee Rucker USC 6032 267 4.99 4.83
Le Kevin Smith Nebraska 6027 316 5.05 5.07
Montavious Stanley Louisville 6021 313 5.22 5.20
Darryl Tapp Virginia Tech 6015 262 4.84 4.86
Gabriel Watson Michigan 6034 339 5.25 5.32
Kyle Williams LSU 6012 299 5.17 5.16
Mario Williams North Carolina State 6070 295 4.74 4.69
Kamerion Wimbley Florida State 6037 248 4.63 4.64
Rodrique Wright Texas 6051 300 5.06 5.08
Claude Wroten LSU 6020 302 DNR
James Wyche Syracuse 6053 262 4.63 4.71

Practice Notes:

Mario Williams solidified himself as one of the top four players in this draft. After running well his workout was outstanding. Several scouts say Williams is just plain big and nasty.

Williams' North Carolina State teammate, Manny Lawson, also solidified himself as a fist round choice. While many will concentrate on Lawson's outstanding 40-times, he displayed great range and quickness in the practice session.

And a third member of the Wolfpack, John McCargo also looked solid.

Improving on a fine showing at the Senior Bowl, Kamerion Wimbley was outstanding during the practice session. Explosive and displaying great feet, Wimbley also stood out in linebacker drills. Wimbley's Seminole teammate, Brodrick Bunkley also showed well.

Ohio State's Mike Kudla moved into the draft's initial 60-picks. While his workout numbers will be the talk of the town, like Wimberly, Kudla showed great movement skills and looked good during linebacker drills.

Saving what was a lost junior campaign and questionable choice to enter the draft, Ray Edwards looked good all day. The most impressive thing about Edwards is he looks almost skinny at 273 pounds and offers plenty of room for growth.

Stanley McClover of Auburn looked very athletic and impressed at 262 pounds.

Gabe Watson was solid at the start then faded. Though not outstanding, Haloti Ngata also showed well.

After a pair of disappointing 40-times, Parys Haralson showed well in the line and linebacker drills. Quick and explosive, Haralson was solid all day.

Another SEC defender, Mark Anderson, also stood out. Displaying great explosion, Anderson was fast in every direction and showed well when run through a battery of linebacker drills.

Copeland Bryan, Barry Cofield, Chris Gocong, Jason Hatcher, Ryan Lacasse, Rob Ninkovich and James Wyche all turned in solid days of work.

On the flip side Mathias Kiwanuka watched his grade slip, almost as much due to the performances of other prospects as anything else.

Elvis Dumervil did not workout because of an injury after a pair of poor forty times and continues to move through the second day.

Johnny Jolly of Texas A&M was just bad.


My take -He held his own......which means his stock probably stayed where it was #1 dt top ten pick.....

I feel I have to be repetitive sometimes.

On the surface, what you say makes sense. But Iraq probably looks like a great place to live from 10,000 feet too.

Your skipping one small detail. Who exactly is worth the 8 pick in the draft that will likely be there? D'Brick wont be and many of the scouts who you are using as support for your arguement feel Ngata is NOT a top 8 pick.

So, who is it at 8 that is a O or D line player thats worth that pick?

Forget the trade scenario, thats another song and dance thats very tough to make happen, answer the direct question at to who at 8 is worthy of that pick on the O and D lines? If your answer is Ngata, there are PLENTY of peopel who dont agree hes worthy of that pick.

Vernon Davis has now jumped up to being worthy of that pick, and if he drops to us, its easy to argue that a Gates is worth a hell of alot more than the next McKinnie, Wadsworth, Damione Lewis, Ryan Pickett, or even worse the next Mike Williams. By the way, I mentioned a few DT's that will be on the market that are plenty good enough to start for us, but are not in the same league with a guy like Gates.

Seriously, who are the stud DT's in the past 5 or 6 drafts that your using as proof that we need one at 8?

Now, how about Witten, Shockey, Miller.

Your arguement is paper thin, with a quick poke, you can see how hollow it is.

[hydro014]

I feel I have to be repetitive sometimes.

On the surface, what you say makes sense. But Iraq probably looks like a great place to live from 10,000 feet too.

Your skipping one small detail. Who exactly is worth the 8 pick in the draft that will likely be there? D'Brick wont be and many of the scouts who you are using as support for your arguement feel Ngata is NOT a top 8 pick.

So, who is it at 8 that is a O or D line player thats worth that pick?

Forget the trade scenario, thats another song and dance thats very tough to make happen, answer the direct question at to who at 8 is worthy of that pick on the O and D lines? If your answer is Ngata, there are PLENTY of peopel who dont agree hes worthy of that pick.

Vernon Davis has now jumped up to being worthy of that pick, and if he drops to us, its easy to argue that a Gates is worth a hell of alot more than the next McKinnie, Wadsworth, Damione Lewis, Ryan Pickett, or even worse the next Mike Williams. By the way, I mentioned a few DT's that will be on the market that are plenty good enough to start for us, but are not in the same league with a guy like Gates.

Seriously, who are the stud DT's in the past 5 or 6 drafts that your using as proof that we need one at 8?

Now, how about Witten, Shockey, Miller.

Your arguement is paper thin, with a quick poke, you can see how hollow it is.

I agree i dont feel as though a DT is worth the 8th pick.