No CBA not only will kill this franchise, it will kill the fans...

[Bill Brasky]

I've heard some people here say that the possibility of an uncapped year or two will "backfire" so to say... IE: when the skins went on a spending spree only to fall flat on their face... or how the yankees constantly spend far more than most teams yet haven't won in half a decade...

However, tell that to teams like the Kansas City Royals, Milwaukee Brewers, and Cincinnati Reds... all 3 of those teams are considered "small market" by baseball standards. When's the last time any of those teams were even competive, both on the field and in free agency?

In the long term.... no salary cap might not kill the Bills as far as relocation, disbanding, etc... but they won't be able to compete against teams like Dallas and Washington with unlimited capital, and what good is a team when it won't be able to bring in guys to make the team competitive. Yes, they might HAVE a good chunk of change, but there will always be teams like New England, Oakland, NYG that can and WILL spend more to get the best players, leaving teams like Buffalo and Jacksonville picking up the scrubs every year.

And consider this... with the mass amount of *****ing many of you do regarding ticket/game costs... without the CBA we can expect a major hike in ticket prices, apparel, concessions, every year. There will be a % cap on how high they can be raised, but you can bet the house that small market teams will almost be forced to jack up prices on everything to maintain operating costs and profits.

As of right now, the five smallest NFL markets are:

1. Green Bay (though if you count Milwaukee in it's market it would go all the way down to 5th)
2. Jacksonville Jaguars
3. Buffalo Bills
4. New Orleans (pre-Katrina) Saints
5. Nashville (Tennessee) Titans

Remember that a "market" is comprised of metro population, not city population. IE: eventhough Jacksonville is one of the largest "cities" in the U.S., it's metro area is not all that big, in fact it's a tad lower than Buffalo's.

However, with the way Jacksonville is growing and Buffalo declining, we are looking at the possibility of Buffalo being the smallest football market next to Green Bay by the time an uncapped year goes into effect. I don't think Green Bay, with all it's "history" would have a hard time attracting decent players, but what incentives would top tier players have by coming to play in Buffalo, which theoritically would be the smallest market and at the same time suffering from economic and fanbase (population) decline.

Plain and simple - this could spell disaster for not only the Bills, but the fans as well.

:ill:

[Devin]

Yup. No CBA is going to hurt the NFL, especially small markets bad.

[Bill Brasky]

it just sucks to consider this team possibly not existing. i would almost rather have them relocate instead of turning into the Royals of the NFL :sadwalk:

this damn state has ruined everything and it will eventually be the downfall of our team as well. f'n bastards. that is another issue for another time, though.

[tat2dmike77]

No cap means it goes back to the 80's when it was the same teams winning and the same teams losing all the time.

[billsburgh]

doesnt look good, these greedy bastards dont know how good they have it. Always wanting more and more. It's going to be hard for me to remain a fan of the NFL if there is no cap and people like Snyder and Jones ruin the league by outspending everyone else.

[Bill Brasky]

yeah, we already have the yankees, why make another sport the same old story?

[Marvelous]

If that were the case then our only bright spot would be the draft. I hate the players greed. How did it get this messed up anyways? Free agency ruined the game. My dad still to this day complains every season about how todays game sucks because players relocate so much that you can't identify with any of them... I know we would be a constant top 10 team if free agency died. We draft solid enough to hold our own............

[billsburgh]

We draft solid enough to hold our own............
not the last few years. maybe that will improve now that TD is gone.

[PromoTheRobot]

What makes the NFL really popular us GAMBLING! The fact you can bet on all 30 teams is a big reason. (any given Sunday, right?) What happens when the NFL is reduced to 8 haves, and 22 have-not franchises? Gamblers lose interest because so many games will be mismatches. The networks will lose interest because there will be only 8 teams worth showing. If most of the contests are mismatches, fans will lose interest.

What the greedy bastards like Jones and Kraft don't realize is the NFL doesn't work like MLB. The reason the Yankees do so well is because they dominate the #1 market. They get the most $$$ for their local TV and radio, of which there are 162 games a year. (Don't forget they own their own TV network. Yet there are enough games for Fox and ESPN to show as well. Not so with football.)

Is the NFL ready to move to a similar model? With only 16 games a year? Will Dallas be able to compete with the New York teams? WIll Houston make as much as New England? You want to see crying? Wait till one of these fat-cat owners falls behind in the revenue race! Then you will see them all wonder why-oh-why aren't things they way they used to be!

PTR

[RedEyE]

Oddly enough Buffalo's Super Bowl runs came without a cap.

[ICE74129]

Some other things to consider....

1) we have the 'poorest' owner in the NFL or damn close to it. There have been many reports come out esp when the lease was up around 97/98 about Ralph Wilsons income from business etc. He is in the bottom 25% as for as money. This means there is no way in hell he can afford the outragous signing bonuses that the Jerry Jones' and Bob Kraft's of the NFL will be offering up.

2) we are not an attractive option right now anyway. Yeah yeah Buffalo is great blah blah blah. They are great to those IN WNY. Outside of it Buffalo has a bad rep. I have MANY Former buffalonians in Tulsa. They loved it there except 1) no jobs, 2) the most taxed area in the nation and 3) Nothing else to do other than the sabers, Bills and the 'canadian ballet'.

Add to that we are honest to God the laughing stock of the NFL. Not only did this last season and all the BS that went on with it make us look even worse, MM flat QUIT after being on the job a week. Then we sign Dick Jauron over Mike Sherman. Now I am willing to say that we MIGHT have made the right pick after all, but perception is....we went with the 'Cheap' choice or 'the Puppet' for marv/Ralph.

Look everyone here loves the Bills. No doubt about that, but REALITY Says, we really do suck. To anyone outside of WNY we are the joke of the NFL and have done nothing but sink further into that status.

I feel it will take signing cheap FA's that just need a good system and good coaching, along with building in the draft (Note: There may not be a draft after 07. Part of the CBA disolving is no draft. Owners can just go to campus and outbid each other for the College player they want) To get us back to where we need to be. But in all honesty....we need a new owner.

Ralph is getting way too old. Funny PC's but the man got lost several times during them and looked winded as well. He won't have the money to battle the top owners.

Bottom line the only way we survive this is 1) New ownership. 2) Great coaching and having modrak etc find 'gems' to work with. Other wise, get used to sub 7 win seasons and no way to get out of the rut.

[Bill Brasky]

Oddly enough Buffalo's Super Bowl runs came without a cap.

yeah that is true, but you also have to remember buffalo's drafts during the mid to late 80's... they were able to stockpile young talent because they sucked for so long.

i guess not having a cap could work. if they are able to sort of repeat that scenario, stockpile young guys, build an environment condusive to winning, then maybe the incentives to stick around a winning team outweigh the big contracts they might get elsewhere... but the football world is vastly different than it was 15 years ago... i don't know if this strategy will necessarily work anymore.

everybody points to NE... "Guys wanna go there, they stay cuz they win"... i don't think it's any secret that they also stay because they are going to get paid.

[ICE74129]

yeah that is true, but you also have to remember buffalo's drafts during the mid to late 80's... they were able to stockpile young talent because they sucked for so long.

i guess not having a cap could work. if they are able to sort of repeat that scenario, stockpile young guys, build an environment condusive to winning, then maybe the incentives to stick around a winning team outweigh the big contracts they might get elsewhere... but the football world is vastly different than it was 15 years ago... i don't know if this strategy will necessarily work anymore.

everybody points to NE... "Guys wanna go there, they stay cuz they win"... i don't think it's any secret that they also stay because they are going to get paid.

The problem is there will be no draft either. They still haven't decided how you go about getting FA's yet as well. I do know it will now be 6 years instead of 4 to become an UFA

[THATHURMANATOR]

Guys they aren't talking about no cap long term. It would be for one year... It would suck but I am thinking we could survive. Also think about this. Here are the bottom 6 payrolls in the majors:

Milwaukee 42,752,833

Cleveland 40,684,100

Kansas City 34,903,000

Colorado 32,504,000

Pittsburgh 30,139,200

Tampa Bay 26,615,413

The Bills payroll this year is over 90 mil. Showing the are able to sign players. There are also large influxes of talent every year from the draft so there will be players available. In baseball drafted players take years to develop. Yes we will most likely be out bid most times on the marqee name but we could survive non capped for a year or so.

[Bill Brasky]

The problem is there will be no draft either. They still haven't decided how you go about getting FA's yet as well. I do know it will now be 6 years instead of 4 to become an UFA
there would have to be some sort of draft, though. if there wasn't, prices would all be averaged out. players wouldn't stand for that crap. they'd go to the CFL or some sh it.

no way a guy like reggie bush, or any #1 overall, is gonna go into a league that would be paying a 8th round pick the same as a #1 overall.

not having a draft would be more assinine than not having a cap. it might not be structered the same, but they'd have to have something resembling a draft. even before the cap they had one.

6 years to become an UFA - love it. that way you lock up guys semi-long term. makes teams more competitive. right now, they can jump a sucky ship and go to a super bowl contender and leave teams in constant rebuilding mode.

it takes 3-5 years to build a powerhouse in today's nfl. making guys commit 6 years increases a teams chance for success tremendosly and evens the playingfield, imo.

[ICE74129]

there would have to be some sort of draft, though. if there wasn't, prices would all be averaged out. players wouldn't stand for that crap. they'd go to the CFL or some sh it.

no way a guy like reggie bush, or any #1 overall, is gonna go into a league that would be paying a 8th round pick the same as a #1 overall.

not having a draft would be more assinine than not having a cap. it might not be structered the same, but they'd have to have something resembling a draft. even before the cap they had one.

6 years to become an UFA - love it. that way you lock up guys semi-long term. makes teams more competitive. right now, they can jump a sucky ship and go to a super bowl contender and leave teams in constant rebuilding mode.

it takes 3-5 years to build a powerhouse in today's nfl. making guys commit 6 years increases a teams chance for success tremendosly and evens the playingfield, imo.

All they guys Scheftler, Lenny P etc explained, there would be no draft after 07. Teams can just bid on who they want as soon as the college year is done. Reggie would have the top teams all bidding on him.

I agree if they do a CBA they need to have the 6 year rule in effect for draft picks.

My thoughts are, Vincent as the NFLPA rep for the players needs to get with each teams rep in an emergancy session. I think they might want to take a vote on if they want to keep Washington as thier head or not. They don't get this done the NFLPA dissolves. That means the NFL owners are not held to putting money into benifits and 401K like they are now and most likely will lead to a strike in 08.

Gene Washington ins't worth losing all they have fought for.

[Bill Brasky]

yeah but that one uncapped year will have lasting effects. good players will go to high paying teams and probably sign big long term deals.

tickets prices will go up... the cap comes back, and they will stay the same or go up. no reason for the owners to lower them.

as we've all learned living through the donahoe era, 1 bad year can set you back 3-5 in terms of rebuilding and developing talent.

[Iehoshua]

No more socialist institution in the NFL? How horrible.
:(

[Night Train]

While Gene Upshaw prattles on about how he'll never let the cap back in once it's gone, he's hardly working from a position of strength. The owners would just lock out everyone, upon completion of the 2006 season until the issue could be resolved.

The elimination of the Cap would signal the end of the Bills and 8-10 other NFL teams after 2007. Fans would never support a AAA team who couldn't compete with a Dallas paying the deep snapper 4 mil.

Meanwhile, the owners continue to fight among themselves over the divison of $$. 80 cent of every dollar made is shared. Small market owners like Wayne Weaver of the Jags and Mike Brown of Cinci want more than 80%. Many others disagree.

The players association can cry all they want but the owners took the initial risk and provided a forum for the players to perform. Viewing the current salary structure, I'll NEVER side with the players... 30 years ago, maybe.

Gene Upshaw can go pound salt.

[Michael82]

While Gene Upshaw prattles on about how he'll never let the cap back in once it's gone, he's hardly working from a position of strength. The owners would just lock out everyone, upon completion of the 2006 season until the issue could be resolved.

The elimination of the Cap would signal the end of the Bills and 8-10 other NFL teams after 2007. Fans would never support a AAA team who couldn't compete with a Dallas paying the deep snapper 4 mil.

Meanwhile, the owners continue to fight among themselves over the divison of $$. 80 cent of every dollar made is shared. Small market owners like Wayne Weaver of the Jags and Mike Brown of Cinci want more than 80%. Many others disagree.

The players association can cry all they want but the owners took the initial risk and provided a forum for the players to perform. Viewing the current salary structure, I'll NEVER side with the players... 30 years ago, maybe.

Gene Upshaw can go pound salt.
Good post! :bf1:

[Bill Brasky]

While Gene Upshaw prattles on about how he'll never let the cap back in once it's gone, he's hardly working from a position of strength. The owners would just lock out everyone, upon completion of the 2006 season until the issue could be resolved.

The elimination of the Cap would signal the end of the Bills and 8-10 other NFL teams after 2007. Fans would never support a AAA team who couldn't compete with a Dallas paying the deep snapper 4 mil.

Meanwhile, the owners continue to fight among themselves over the divison of $$. 80 cent of every dollar made is shared. Small market owners like Wayne Weaver of the Jags and Mike Brown of Cinci want more than 80%. Many others disagree.

The players association can cry all they want but the owners took the initial risk and provided a forum for the players to perform. Viewing the current salary structure, I'll NEVER side with the players... 30 years ago, maybe.

Gene Upshaw can go pound salt.


Hmmmmm, your argument intrigues me............................................................................. go on.....................

http://tommie.nu/public/peter_griffin.jpg

[Samphin1]

Well, as others have said, his issue looms huge. You would think that after baseball, basktball and especially hockey, that the NFL would learn from its fellow leagues and realize that it does not want to even approach going down this road.

Upshaw (not Washington) has contended that is 2007 goes uncapped (as it most likely will now) that the NFLPA will never again accept a cap. So, we are in fact, talking about more than just one year.

The lockout wouldn't happen until AFTER the 2007 season. The CBA actually runs through 2007. There was just a provision stating that if no extension was made by a certain date, 2007 goes uncapped. That, as you all know, is where we are now.

There is a very real chance that, come the close of 2007, the owners will lock the players out if no agreement can be made. That would kill any and all momentum the NFL has.

I hadn't heard about this supposed no draft business. That would be absurd to have all out recruitment instead of a draft. You are talking about a situation where scouts, agents, coaches and owners would be trolling around campuses year round and possibly corrupting college football (even moreso). I doubt that ever happens where they have no draft.

[Dicknoze69]

As a legal matter, the draft is illegal because it is an unlawful restraint on the free trade of the prospects.

The only way you can legally have a draft is to write it into the CBA. Therefore, if the CBA is gone, there is no draft.

This will never happen by the way.

[Dicknoze69]

Also, you are using baseball as an example, but it isn't a parallel situation. Football has a much higher percentage of shared revenue (80% I believe), whereas baseball has a much lower percentage.

The difference between the revenue of the Yankees and the Royals is much greater than the difference between the revenue of the Redskins and Packers.

[Gunzlingr]

I will be pissed if the teams that are way over the cap (ie - Redskins) are allowed to skate and not have to pay their penance.

[Night Train]

I will be pissed if the teams that are way over the cap (ie - Redskins) are allowed to skate and not have to pay their penance.

That's what gets me. The cap was 85 Mil and still rises 10 Mil to 95 Mil.

..and teams are crying about it not rising 20 Mil or more ! That's what happens when you mismange the cap. Those teams should pay dearly for getting greedy in the past. We still have to make a couple more cap cuts. Let them purge their rosters and be taught a hard lesson.

[Gunzlingr]

:up:

[Devin]

Well in a few hours every team is going to pay.

[Bill Brasky]

Also, you are using baseball as an example, but it isn't a parallel situation. Football has a much higher percentage of shared revenue (80% I believe), whereas baseball has a much lower percentage.

The difference between the revenue of the Yankees and the Royals is much greater than the difference between the revenue of the Redskins and Packers.

yeah, baseball doesn't have a 53 man roster though.