Even with an agreement I say cut moulds.

[ICE74129]

Yeah I know the cap may be 108 mill or something like it. But it's just a matter of principal. He is over 30, on the downside of his career. He has maybe two good years left. He isn't worth Extending nor keeping at 11+ mill. With the extention a team like Philly will take him for his 6 mill in base pay and give him some incentives.

If Eric had done what Mushin Muhamad did in Chicago last year, I would be screaming to keep him, instead he did a 180. I watched an NFLN special on MM right after the season started. Long story short, he said he didn't come to Chicago to automatically play for a rookie QB. He didnt like it. But he said I am a Veteran and need to do what is best for this TEAM. And what is best is for me to not think about what 'I' Want and help this kid all I can. He said it would be tough on the field and in the locker room, but if they were to succeed, then he had to rally the troops around Orton. Orton won 10 games as a Rookie.

I'm sorry if my opinion on this issue pisses some off, but I am a team type guy. Moulds had had attitude knocks on him even in college. The off the field troubles do show the character of a man. I am a jerk sometimes but I have never beat a woman. I get frustrated but I have never spit in a mans face. That is the ultimate disrespect. Then Moulds gets to out of whack that he goes and leads a charge to get JP Benched, then he pulls himself out of the Miami game, listens to his Ipod instead of the coaches at 1/2 time and gets suspended. Sorry I don't want that on my team. Those are the actions of a 23 year old rookie, not a 10 year veteran.

Some have said 'who is out there that can measure up compared to moulds'. Pure talent wise? Isaac Bruce. Maybe one more somewhere. But I will take less talent for a guy with more character and a better attitude any day.

I bet marv keeps moulds. It will be for sentimental and fan driven reasons. It is a bad move for the locker room, (JP in particular) and for the cap. You never extend a guy this old, this many years and him already having this high a cap number UNLESS....you are a superbowl contender.

Just my two cents.

[justasportsfan]

Moulds did what was best for the team too. He wanted the best player out on the field. He was also a team player. He spoke on behalf of the vets who wanted the same thing. :D

Just my two cents.

[ICE74129]

Moulds did what was best for the team too. He wanted the best player out on the field. He was also a team player. He spoke on behalf of the vets who wanted the same thing. :D

Just my two cents.

Most of those vets have been cut too. MM did the right thing, Moulds didn't. You have to play with who is out there, not what YOU want. Do you not think the vets would have wanted Chicago to bring in or trade for a Vet instead of playing orton?

Chicago players did the RIGHT Thing and won thier division and a first round bye. Buffalo players did what they wanted, and we went 5-11. That's all there is to say about that.

[EricStratton]

When Mushin Muhamad blew up at halftime of the Chicago/Atlanta game and the Bears put Grossman in was that being selfish or a team player?

Every player has their moments when they get frustrated.

[ICE74129]

When Mushin Muhamad blew up at halftime of the Chicago/Atlanta game and the Bears put Grossman in was that being selfish or a team player?

Every player has their moments when they get frustrated.

Grossman was ready at that point. MM Blew up for many reasons, Orton was one of them. Hey all I know is this, I watched the special, the team supported thier Rookie QB and he won 10 games for them as a ROOKIE. so at some point the team came together and decided to give the kid thier full support. Something JP never had.

[justasportsfan]

Most of those vets have been cut too. . So now you know why they wanted to win now. They weren't getting any younger and have busted their butts all these years . They were suppose to go to the playoffs and IMO they would've if Moolarkey retained Drew but instead he annoints a rookie qb who wasn't ready. I'd be pissed and frustrated too if I busted my butt for this team only to be held back because the coaches and GM didn't know what the hell they were doing.

Ice it's pretty obvious you are looking at things through your JP rose colored glasses. If Moulds is retained , believe me, Marv will get him to play 100% regardless of who is at qb. The past regime couldn't get through to their players. It was basically their fault that the players had their differences. This is a different staff. If we had the same staff, chances are things aren't gonna get iron out.


BTW, did MM take in rookie wr's every offseason and spend time getting them ready? Moulds did that every year. You forgot about that because he had 1 difference with one player and it happened to be your boy. Na, sorry.

[clumping platelets]

I keep Moulds and draft his replacement

[mybills]

The off the field troubles do show the character of a man. I am a jerk sometimes but I have never beat a woman. I get frustrated but I have never spit in a mans face.

She was prolly having a hissy fit just like this thread. :snicker:


btw, that spitting incident I don't buy. Not the first one anyway. He was yelling at someone and sprayed them. You should be knocking the little pussy that called it spitting.

just my 2 cents. :curtsey:

[justasportsfan]

I keep Moulds and draft his replacementthats what I'm hoping will happen.

[Philagape]

They were suppose to go to the playoffs and IMO they would've if Moolarkey retained Drew

He couldn't get to the playoffs on a much better Dallas team, but he would have been the difference between 5-11 and 11-5 here? Behind our line? With our defense and coaching? OMG ... even the trolls don't go that far

[justasportsfan]

He couldn't get to the playoffs on a much better Dallas team, but he would have been the difference between 5-11 and 11-5 here? Behind our line? With our defense and coaching? OMG ... even the trolls don't go that farThe Afce was one of the weakest divisions in the NFL. Drew would've outperformed Jp and KH but would've sucked anyways. Drew may have been an idiot but he was respected by his teammates and there would've been tability at the qb position which was our biggest problem.


Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's gone but the coaches were not smart enough to replace him with a better option.

[ICE74129]

So now you know why they wanted to win now. .

then they should have supported the QB, not undermined him. Thier method = 5-11. The veterans on the Bears method = first round bye and a division win.

Sorry justa your arguements don't hold water. The Bears vets wanted to win now and they did...by supporting the QB out there. That is how you win games. Holcomb would not have won us but maybe one more game. That is still 6-10. the Veterans didn't look to the problems THEY Had ( not stopping the run, not running good routes and catching the Ball, not blocking well etc) and pinned it on an essentially Rookie QB.

That isn't veteran leadership justa. That is selfishness. The results of the facts are right clear.

[TacklingDummy]

Grossman was ready at that point. MM Blew up for many reasons, Orton was one of them. Hey all I know is this, I watched the special, the team supported thier Rookie QB and he won 10 games for them as a ROOKIE. so at some point the team came together and decided to give the kid thier full support. Something JP never had.

Wrong in so many ways.

JP wasn't ready to be a starter in this league and his 1st 4 games showed the nation that.

The only reason the Bears players say they supported Orton was because they were winning games. And there was no other option. As soon as another option came available they made a switch at QB.

Orton did not win 10 games for the Bears as a rookie. Chicago's defense won 10 games for Orton as a rookie.

If they truely supported Orton then they would of never switched back to Grossman.

JP had the full support of the Bills entire organization when last year started. They even cut Bledsoe to show their support to JP. If JP didn't start the season 1-3 and look clueless out on the football field he would of never of been benched.

The Bills defense didn't play great for the Bills last year and win games for them. But they did hold the Bills into games that could of been won if they had a QB. Like the Atlanta game, the Miami game, Tampa game, NO game, Carolina game.

[ICE74129]

I keep Moulds and draft his replacement

I cut moulds and bring in Bruce. He will be cheaper, has much better character and knows what fairchild will want to do on offense.

We drafted Moulds replacement...Evans.

[justasportsfan]

then they should have supported the QB, not undermined him. Thier method = 5-11. The veterans on the Bears method = first round bye and a division win.

Sorry justa your arguements don't hold water. The Bears vets wanted to win now and they did...by supporting the QB out there. That is how you win games. Holcomb would not have won us but maybe one more game. That is still 6-10. the Veterans didn't look to the problems THEY Had ( not stopping the run, not running good routes and catching the Ball, not blocking well etc) and pinned it on an essentially Rookie QB.

That isn't veteran leadership justa. That is selfishness. The results of the facts are right clear.undermine a rookie who was annointed by a stupid coach? Would you go to Iraq if Donahoe told you to go and he would annoint Peewee Herman to lead the way? BTw don't worry about Peewee, he's got tons of potential.



Obviously my arguments does hold water on the simple facts that in the end, the players were right to b!tch about an era that has proven to be a failure. Let the results speak for itself. You cannot tell me that players will just accept Donahoes decisions as long as they are being paid. Sorry, players do get fed up.




Ask Spikes, he wanted out of Cincy. I will never blindly stay with a team that doesn't want to win. If I am considered the leader of this team I will speak on behalf of the team if they want me to and make sure their sentiments are heard.


You know what , maybe Upshaw should just sit back and keep quiet even though the players want a BCA. By your Logic , that's what a leader/spokesperson should do.

If there is any argument that doesn't hold water it's yours because you formulate an opinion based on your emotions for JP. Your hatred for Moulds stems from that. Although I like Jp , you sound like the Johnsonites of the past.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Moulds did what was best for the team too. He wanted the best player out on the field. He was also a team player. He spoke on behalf of the vets who wanted the same thing. :D

Just my two cents.
You can never let the Patients run the Asylum....

[justasportsfan]

You can never let the Patients run the Asylum....In case you missed it thurm our coaches and GM's were patients too.


If I were a player , I would stick with my teammates who I play on the field with over the coaches who formulate their gameplan by playing Madden.

[ICE74129]

undermine a rookie who was annointed by a stupid coach? Would you go to Iraq if Donahoe told you to go and he would annoint Peewee Herman to lead the way? BTw don't worry about Peewee, he's got tons of potential.

first off I was a 19K Tanker in DS. So don't try to compare. And Yes I had to follow some real idiots. Bottom line I was paid to do a job, not like the guy leading us. I did my job and so did the rest of the guys.



Obviously my arguments does hold water on the simple facts that in the end, the players were right to b!tch about an era that has proven to be a failure. Let the results speak for itself. You cannot tell me that players will just accept Donahoes decisions as long as they are being paid. Sorry, players do get fed up.

And they get fined and suspended. YES you go do your job regardless of how much you might not like the decisions made. It is called being a professional. They are not paid to ***** and start locker room strife.


Ask Spikes, he wanted out of Cincy. I will never blindly stay with a team that doesn't want to win. If I am considered the leader of this team I will speak on behalf of the team if they want me to and make sure their sentiments are heard.

Yeah how did getting out of Cinci work out for Spikes? Behind closed doors, not leading a locker room dissention you won't. Or you will be sent packing. A real leader understands this. Although he and a couple more vets dont' like what is happening, they STILL go out and give 100% on the field and provide good leadership in the locker room. When things are bad you see who the real leaders are, and moulds has proven he isn't one of them. Bust your ass during the season, ***** to ownership behind closed doors in the offseason. Again it's called being a professional.


You know what , maybe Upshaw should just sit back and keep quiet even though the players want a BCA. By your Logic , that's what a leader/spokesperson should do.

He should negotiate behind closed doors, not in the media.

If there is any argument that doesn't hold water it's yours because you formulate an opinion based on your emotions for JP. Your hatred for Moulds stems from that. Although I like Jp , you sound like the Johnsonites of the past.


You can't see the forest for the trees. It isn't about JP. Take any other name, Roy Jones for all I care. If he came in, busted his ass and had JP's talent and got screwed like JP did, I would *****. I know how to develop QB's and what MM and crew did is exactly how you fugg one up. it doesn't matter what Moulds, Adams, Milloy or any other veteran wants. It is what is best for the team.

What you still can't grasp out of love for Moulds is he was 100% across the board is HOW he went about it. You NEVER rally the team internally to get a guy benched. You don't sit there and act like some 23 year old rookie and just quit when things dont go your way. he was a horrible example to Lee Evans and any other young player in that locker room.

[ICE74129]

In case you missed it thurm our coaches and GM's were patients too.


If I were a player , I would stick with my teammates who I play on the field with over the coaches who formulate their gameplan by playing Madden.

So let me get this straight, You are saying screw the management, it is your way or you revolt if you don't like how things are going? If so, you would NEVER make it in the Military, nor on any football team.

There are ways things are handled and ways they aren't. I can tell you don't understand that. Moulds didn't either and needs to be cut because of it.

[Gunzlingr]

How many ***** threads do you have to start that say the same ***** thing, ICE????? Good lord, give it an ***** rest!

[justasportsfan]

So let me get this straight, You are saying screw the management, it is your way or you revolt if you don't like how things are going? If so, you would NEVER make it in the Military, nor on any football team.

There are ways things are handled and ways they aren't. I can tell you don't understand that. Moulds didn't either and needs to be cut because of it.

Let me give you a perfect example Ice.

The Pats players never revolted when the coaches of the Patriots stuck with Brady instead of going with the sentimental favorite , Drew Bledsoe when he was back from his injury. Why? Because the players realized that they had a competent staff that put them in a perfect situation to win unlike the coaches we had. The players were cinfident with the people calling to shots. This wasn't the case with the bills under Moolarkey/ TD.

If cap wasn't a problem and you had to choose between MM/TD or vets, who would you keep?

[ICE74129]

How many ***** threads do you have to start that say the same ***** thing, ICE????? Good lord, give it an ***** rest!

Until it finally sinks in?:handball:

[Gunzlingr]

What the hell good does it do to piss off the people that agree with you??? It isn't like Marv and Ralph read your 2,057 posts that all state you hate moulds.

I think we should rename the deadhorse smiley to :ice:

[justasportsfan]

How many ***** threads do you have to start that say the same ***** thing, ICE????? Good lord, give it an ***** rest! Until we all act like Johnsonites and follow 1 player over the entire team.

He keeps saying Dick and Marv finally get it and yet when they are trying to negotiate to try and keep Moulds he questions them.

It's all about JP Losman when it comes to ICE.

[ICE74129]

Let me give you a perfect example Ice.

The Pats players never revolted when the coaches of the Patriots stuck with Brady instead of going with the sentimental favorite , Drew Bledsoe when he was back from his injury. Why? Because the players realized that they had a competent staff that put them in a perfect situation to win unlike the coaches we had. The players were cinfident with the people calling to shots. This wasn't the case with the bills under Moolarkey/ TD.

If cap wasn't a problem and you had to choose between MM/TD or vets, who would you keep?
Then take it up with Ralph Wilson and still give 100% on the field and don't cause a revolt in the locker room.

You say the problem is with the staff, that isn't JP's fault. Period. They screwed over a guy that needed them. You say stick with your team mates over the staff. They didn't do that, they screwed one of their own over.

JP did nothing wrong but bust his ass on a very bad team with very bad coaching and his fellow team mates served him up as the sacrificial lamb. Holcomb isn't a winner, never has been. For his 68% completion rate, extended drives etc...he won ONE more game than JP did as a starter. Holcomb is 3-4 in games started and finished (JP won the KC game that is fact).

Man how many times will it take for you to get it, Moulds was WRONG! He did it WRONG! STFU, in the locker room, support JP and take the issue to Ralph Wilson. That would have been the RIGHT way to do it.

[ICE74129]

Until we all act like Johnsonites and follow 1 player over the entire team.

He keeps saying Dick and Marv finally get it and yet when they are trying to negotiate to try and keep Moulds he questions them.

It's all about JP Losman when it comes to ICE.


if you support the team, you support losman, which you don't. So you don't support the team. Just a handful of veteran favorites. Did it ever occur to you had those whiny vets just STFU and did their jobs , maybe we win with losman in there? Your wrong across the board. all you are trying to do is validate moulds being an ******* and going about business the wrong way.

[TacklingDummy]

The Pats players never revolted when the coaches of the Patriots stuck with Brady instead of going with the sentimental favorite , Drew Bledsoe when he was back from his injury. Why? Because the players realized that they had a competent staff that put them in a perfect situation to win unlike the coaches we had. The players were cinfident with the people calling to shots. T?

I disargree. The Pats players never revolted with the coaches keeping Brady in because Brady and the Pats were winning. If Brady came in and stunk up the place like Losman did, the players would revolt and ask for Bledsoe to be back in, if the coaches were not smart enough on their own to make the switch.

[justasportsfan]

Then take it up with Ralph Wilson and still give 100% on the field and don't cause a revolt in the locker room.

You say the problem is with the staff, that isn't JP's fault. Period. They screwed over a guy that needed them. You say stick with your team mates over the staff. They didn't do that, they screwed one of their own over.

JP did nothing wrong but bust his ass on a very bad team with very bad coaching and his fellow team mates served him up as the sacrificial lamb. Holcomb isn't a winner, never has been. For his 68% completion rate, extended drives etc...he one ONE more game than JP did as a starter. Holcomb is 3-4 in games started and finished (JP won the KC game that is fact).I never blamed JP for being unprepared but he was and the vets were playing for something.


Man how many times will it take for you to get it, Moulds was WRONG! He did it WRONG! STFU, in the locker room, support JP and take the issue to Ralph Wilson. That would have been the RIGHT way to do it.
If he was so wrong I would leave that up to Marv and Dick to make that decision. There must've been something more with that locker room story that we know because Dic k and Marv who you keep saying "they get it" keep trying to negotiate with Moulds. If he was not the "Marv type" he would've been gone. You can make assumptions all you want but Marv's actions speak louder than your opinions.

[justasportsfan]

I disargree. The Pats players never revolted with the coaches keeping Brady in because Brady and the Pats were winning. .exactly, and they wouldn't be winning if the coaches didn't know what they were doing. They knew how to use Brady's strengths while ours didn't know how to use Losman or didn't even have the intelligence to know that he wasn't ready.

[justasportsfan]

if you support the team, you support losman, which you don't. So you don't support the team. Just a handful of veteran favorites. Did it ever occur to you had those whiny vets just STFU and did their jobs , maybe we win with losman in there? Your wrong across the board. all you are trying to do is validate moulds being an ******* and going about business the wrong way.


OH well, if you qb is playing like Rob Johnson we should just stick with him anyways. NO!

I am trying to validate Moulds being an ass? Tell that to Dick and marv who until now is trying to keep him. Why haven't you addressed that? I thought you said "they get it".

[TacklingDummy]

Holcomb is 3-4 in games started and finished (JP won the KC game that is fact).
.

Acutally that's not a fact. If ya look up the Bills record when Holcomb started its 4-4 and if ya look up when Losman started its 1-7. And that IS a FACT.

[ICE74129]

OH well, if you qb is playing like Rob Johnson we should just stick with him anyways. NO!

I am trying to validate Moulds being an ass? Tell that to Dick and marv who until now is trying to keep him. Why haven't you addressed that? I thought you said "they get it".

If marv is keeping him it is sentimental in basis or ralph wilson's doing. Moulds was wrong, He was unprofessional.

JP was ready to do what they had prepped him to do in the offseason and that was manage a team with a great defense, inproved OL and would run the ball 30x times per game. JP had none of that to help him. You never ask any QB to put the entire team on your shoulders and make up for a defense, OL, lack of running game etc. When you do, you get what happened to Brett favre this year or what happened to JP when it is essentially a rookie at QB.

I am not arguing with you on this anymore, you are wrong, and moulds was completely wrong in how he delt with the situation. I can't control what Marv does or doesn't do for sentimentality reasons.

[justasportsfan]

If marv is keeping him it is sentimental in basis or ralph wilson's doing. . Opinion, not fact


I am not arguing with you on this anymore,. yeah right! I'll give you a few hours before you start another " I hate Moulds because I love Jp thread"

It's like you to run away from your own thread when you can no longer argue because you have no facts and start coming up with assumptions, " Marv has a soft spot for Moulds". So how did you formulate " they get it". Oh yeah, they only get it when when you agree with what they are doing :shakeno:



you are wrong, and moulds was completely wrong in how he delt with the situation. I can't control what Marv does or doesn't do for sentimentality reasons. I'll stick with Marv's decision on this one over your "source" and opinion.

[THATHURMANATOR]

So let me get this straight, You are saying screw the management, it is your way or you revolt if you don't like how things are going? If so, you would NEVER make it in the Military, nor on any football team.

There are ways things are handled and ways they aren't. I can tell you don't understand that. Moulds didn't either and needs to be cut because of it.
I remember Ruben Brown did the same thing a couple years ago and was villafied and cut....

[HAMMER]

She was prolly having a hissy fit just like this thread. :snicker:


btw, that spitting incident I don't buy. Not the first one anyway. He was yelling at someone and sprayed them. You should be knocking the little pussy that called it spitting.

just my 2 cents. :curtsey:

Were you there?

[HAMMER]

I cut moulds and bring in Bruce. He will be cheaper, has much better character and knows what fairchild will want to do on offense.

We drafted Moulds replacement...Evans.

BINGO!

[Kerr]

ICE is right. Bring in Bruce, and get rid of Moulds.

[justasportsfan]

Okay, maybe I exaggerated w/ the playoffs but I'm almost sure that we would've been better off with him over JP and KH.

[HAMMER]

exactly, and they wouldn't be winning if the coaches didn't know what they were doing. They knew how to use Brady's strengths while ours didn't know how to use Losman or didn't even have the intelligence to know that he wasn't ready.

Wrong! It would not have mattered who played QB last year. The offense sucked and the root of the problem was a horrible O-Line. Can't you people get this straight, you win and lose the game in the trenches, very simple.