Are we looking at a return to the 1 back set?

[ICE74129]

Marv was huge on running 1 back sets even with Marchibrota and Kelly gone. Look at the team right now..

'Ace' Formation. This is a 2 TE formation. We now have royal that can block really well and still catch passes. We have Euhus and Everett that both can get down field and block somewhat.

We can run 3 wide in any variation we want (*) Even if it is Evans, Davis and Parrish.

Watching Willis in College I have always felt that he is a one back guy. I think a FB for most instances gets in his way.

So we shore up the OL via FA and the draft and we are heading toward a 1 back set (any formation) like the glory days. and BTW...St. Louis favored a 1 back set as well for the most part.

(*) IF moulds can quit being an *******, and accepts a pay CUT as well then look at this...Moulds, Davis, Evans. We shore up the OL and try to defend that!

[Kerr]

Just looking back at the Rams offense when fairchild and martz were there, it should be expected they will run a lot of 3 wr set formations and attack down the field.

[ICE74129]

I agree. and Willis to me just seems better suited to be in a one back set

[Kerr]

If that's the case, "the best back in the league" may have just been misused by Mularkey and co. Here's hoping he keeps his straight and cuts the trash talking and just produces.

[ICE74129]

If that's the case, "the best back in the league" may have just been misused by Mularkey and co. Here's hoping he keeps his straight and cuts the trash talking and just produces.

I agree. willis is a one cut, and fly type guy. a FB is in his way, just like it was thumans.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

Ice,
what do the bills do for backup RB? If we are in one back set, we will still need a solid backup to spell willis.. we had kenneth Davis back in the day... who do you see taking that roll?

[Kerr]

I have noticed Willis looks more like a fullback now. Perhaps it would be a good idea to shed a few pounds to gain some more speed.

[ICE74129]

I have noticed Willis looks more like a fullback now. Perhaps it would be a good idea to shed a few pounds to gain some more speed. The guy doesn't need to be over 225 tops.

[Kerr]

what was his weight coming out of UM?

[ICE74129]

what was his weight coming out of UM? 224lbs or so - weight lost from the knee.

Current weight is something like 235?

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

Ice,
what do the bills do for backup RB? If we are in one back set, we will still need a solid backup to spell willis.. we had kenneth Davis back in the day... who do you see taking that roll?

Ice?

[ICE74129]

Ice? I keep the two we have.

[billsburgh]

what's going to happen to last years secret receiving threat Daimon Shelton then? I also think Willis is better suited for a 1 back set.

[Spiderweb]

what's going to happen to last years secret receiving threat Daimon Shelton then? I also think Willis is better suited for a 1 back set.

Well, Shelton could always get a job bagging groceries, but then....nah, he'd drop the eggs....

If Shelton goes, no loss, maybe even it would be additon by subtraction.

I believe though that we do need another RB besides Shaud. Maybe Gates, maybe a rookie, or even a late cut by another team. Shaud is a hard working scat back, but he can't break tackles and he's not a 4.3 guy either.

[gr8slayer]

Im kind of hoping that we go alot of three or four wide. Get those LB's to back up and open up running lanes for Willis. I just hope we pass alot less than Fairchild did in St. Louis.

[billsburgh]

Im kind of hoping that we go alot of three or four wide. Get those LB's to back up and open up running lanes for Willis. I just hope we pass alot less than Fairchild did in St. Louis.
I think that had alot to do with Mike Martz and less with Fairchild

[gr8slayer]

I think that had alot to do with Mike Martz and less with Fairchild
I agree. I just hope we return to being a real power running team.

[billsburgh]

I agree. I just hope we return to being a real power running team.
so do I. We just need some more horses up front. hopefully Marv wil fix that this week

[Kerr]

The truth is we're not going to have a power running type offense. Fairchild comes from the school of Martzs and Vermeil. I'm glad fairchild chose to run more in Martz' absence, but he should aim his offense of emulating a vermeil type of offense, not Martz. Vermeil had the right idea of using his backs to help carry the offense(holmes, johnson), but expect the pass to set up the run. Jp or another qb will be depended more to carry the offense. I just hope they start using more no huddle offense in the future. Loads of 3 wr sets and single back formations. Almost reminds me of the K-gun.

[gr8slayer]

so do I. We just need some more horses up front. hopefully Marv wil fix that this week
Well the "elite" OL are gone so now were down to the scrubs and middle of the road guys. I have nothing but faith in Peters and Preston, the rest of the guys Im not so sure about. I think Gandy is a good short-term answer especially since he is familiar with the system that Jauron runs. That means we are stuck without a RG or a LG. I personally am not a big fan of Anderson at LG and I hope he gets the axe.

So who's left in FA that we can pick up to play G? Maybe Gessinger is ready to step up?

[billsburgh]

If, as many on the board are hoping for, Kevin Mawae and John Runyan are signed, Gandy can slide over to guard as he has played that spot in the past. that gives us Peters-Gandy-Mawae-Preston or Villariel-Runyan

[ICE74129]

I think that had alot to do with Mike Martz and less with Fairchild

Fairchild still went 3 wide to run the ball, that is the type of back they have...just like us.

Look 4 superbowl runs we were one of the top RUNNING teams in the league. I have no problem implementing a 3 wide set and running from it.

Marv and DJ both said 'Look at the personel and go with what you have'. The personel on this team fits what Fairchild normally does and what marv likes...a 3 wide base formation.

[ICE74129]

but expect the pass to set up the run. Jp or another qb will be depended more to carry the offense. I just hope they start using more no huddle offense in the future. Loads of 3 wr sets and single back formations. Almost reminds me of the K-gun.

Thats my boy! You absolutely get it! Vermiel does the same thing. If you look Lary Johnson ran better from a one back formation. Right now they are talking if they are even going to re sign their pro bowl FB. 3 wide allows you to do so much more. With Willis, LJ in KC and Jackson I believe in St.Louis they are 'get the ball, make one move and GO!' type backs. You don't put a FB in their way.

At least I hope Marv, Fairchild keep to their norm and do it that way.

[Kerr]

Thats my boy! You absolutely get it! Vermiel does the same thing. If you look Lary Johnson ran better from a one back formation. Right now they are talking if they are even going to re sign their pro bowl FB. 3 wide allows you to do so much more. With Willis, LJ in KC and Jackson I believe in St.Louis they are 'get the ball, make one move and GO!' type backs. You don't put a FB in their way.

At least I hope Marv, Fairchild keep to their norm and do it that way.

:up:

[LifetimeBillsFan]

You could be on to something there, ICE.

With the speed that Davis and Parrish have, opposing secondaries can't afford to crowd the line of scrimmage and risk getting beat deep because both guys are big-play deep receivers who will make them pay.

That also plays into JP's strength, which is throwing the deep ball, and away from his biggest weaknesses, which are a tendency to get overly excited and inaccuracy. I go back to a comment that John Madden made this past season about QBs, like Favre (and JP, too), who get really amped up at the beginning of games and can struggle with their accuracy as a result: Madden suggested that such QBs can benefit from throwing the ball deep a few times at the outset because it seems to settle them down and helps their shorter range accuracy as the game progresses. One thing you saw with JP was that he struggled when he would miss a couple of shorter passes early on, getting worse and worse with his accuracy as he pressed to complete balls, while he played much better when allowed to go deep early on in games (Houston, KC, etc.). One-back, the WR sets with two deep threats like Davis and Evans would favor this.

I also agree that McGahee is probably more suited to this as well based on his play at Miami. If S.Jackson could prosper in this set-up for the Rams, there is no reason that McGahee can't. The one thing I remember about McGahee from Miami is that he was not a bad receiver out of the backfield. And, he hasn't been bad catching the ball with the Bills when asked to do so--it's just that the previous regime had little confidence in him as a receiver. The thing that people seem to forget is that the Bills under M.Levy ran the ball as much as they passed it in the K-Gun offense and they often used the run to set up the pass--it's just that teams could not afford to ignore the threat that they posed in the passing game and that opened up lanes for T.Thomas and K.Davis to exploit. Even the Rams' Greatest Show on Turf did best when they gave the ball to M.Faulk a fair amount of the time--which they got away from until last year after Martz left.

The key to all of this, of course, is the offensive line. What KC has, what the Rams had at their height, and what made the Bills' K-Gun offense so effective. Right now, the Bills don't have that kind of offensive line. Adding Runyan and/or Mawae would help, but they still have a lot of work to do to address that part of the team this off-season. It is going to be hard for them to transform that part of the team in just one season--it may take more than one. But, there will have to be changes there to make any offense work, they might as well try to find guys who can make this system work as any other.

It will be interesting to see what they end up doing from here. At this stage, they could go with a one-back set similar to the Rams' system or they could still go with the kind of H-back offense that Washington runs using Euhus as an H-back in some sets and Shelton as a FB in some sets. Personnel may play a much bigger role in what they try to do than might be expected with most coaching staffs in the league.

[X-Era]

Marv was huge on running 1 back sets even with Marchibrota and Kelly gone. Look at the team right now..

'Ace' Formation. This is a 2 TE formation. We now have royal that can block really well and still catch passes. We have Euhus and Everett that both can get down field and block somewhat.

We can run 3 wide in any variation we want (*) Even if it is Evans, Davis and Parrish.

Watching Willis in College I have always felt that he is a one back guy. I think a FB for most instances gets in his way.

So we shore up the OL via FA and the draft and we are heading toward a 1 back set (any formation) like the glory days. and BTW...St. Louis favored a 1 back set as well for the most part.

(*) IF moulds can quit being an *******, and accepts a pay CUT as well then look at this...Moulds, Davis, Evans. We shore up the OL and try to defend that!

Doesnt everyone remember the Antwoian Smithh mess? We ran the 1 back with 2 TE's and all it did was clog up the running holes with bodies, we barely made it past the line most of the time.

If your going to run the 1 back, run it with 3 wides. That way you spread everyone out and a quick RB with vision like McGahee can find the open holes.

[ICE74129]

Doesnt everyone remember the Antwoian Smithh mess? We ran the 1 back with 2 TE's and all it did was clog up the running holes with bodies, we barely made it past the line most of the time.

If your going to run the 1 back, run it with 3 wides. That way you spread everyone out and a quick RB with vision like McGahee can find the open holes.

I remember having friggin lonnie Johnson as a TE so no it didn't work. Having one of the best blocking TE's in football WILL Work. And if you read you will see we are talking using the 3 wide mostly vs the ACE formation

[casdhf]

I think the Colts would disagree with that

[X-Era]

You could be on to something there, ICE.

With the speed that Davis and Parrish have, opposing secondaries can't afford to crowd the line of scrimmage and risk getting beat deep because both guys are big-play deep receivers who will make them pay.

That also plays into JP's strength, which is throwing the deep ball, and away from his biggest weaknesses, which are a tendency to get overly excited and inaccuracy. I go back to a comment that John Madden made this past season about QBs, like Favre (and JP, too), who get really amped up at the beginning of games and can struggle with their accuracy as a result: Madden suggested that such QBs can benefit from throwing the ball deep a few times at the outset because it seems to settle them down and helps their shorter range accuracy as the game progresses. One thing you saw with JP was that he struggled when he would miss a couple of shorter passes early on, getting worse and worse with his accuracy as he pressed to complete balls, while he played much better when allowed to go deep early on in games (Houston, KC, etc.). One-back, the WR sets with two deep threats like Davis and Evans would favor this.

I also agree that McGahee is probably more suited to this as well based on his play at Miami. If S.Jackson could prosper in this set-up for the Rams, there is no reason that McGahee can't. The one thing I remember about McGahee from Miami is that he was not a bad receiver out of the backfield. And, he hasn't been bad catching the ball with the Bills when asked to do so--it's just that the previous regime had little confidence in him as a receiver. The thing that people seem to forget is that the Bills under M.Levy ran the ball as much as they passed it in the K-Gun offense and they often used the run to set up the pass--it's just that teams could not afford to ignore the threat that they posed in the passing game and that opened up lanes for T.Thomas and K.Davis to exploit. Even the Rams' Greatest Show on Turf did best when they gave the ball to M.Faulk a fair amount of the time--which they got away from until last year after Martz left.

The key to all of this, of course, is the offensive line. What KC has, what the Rams had at their height, and what made the Bills' K-Gun offense so effective. Right now, the Bills don't have that kind of offensive line. Adding Runyan and/or Mawae would help, but they still have a lot of work to do to address that part of the team this off-season. It is going to be hard for them to transform that part of the team in just one season--it may take more than one. But, there will have to be changes there to make any offense work, they might as well try to find guys who can make this system work as any other.

It will be interesting to see what they end up doing from here. At this stage, they could go with a one-back set similar to the Rams' system or they could still go with the kind of H-back offense that Washington runs using Euhus as an H-back in some sets and Shelton as a FB in some sets. Personnel may play a much bigger role in what they try to do than might be expected with most coaching staffs in the league.

I frikkin LOVE this post! :posrep: headed your way!

I have been thinking the same thing and this is a great way to change the pace of the barrage of FA talk.

Heres some more thoughts:

Rams- had Pace at LT and Alex Barron at RT, plus Timmerman in the middle. I agree you MUST have a very very strong pass blocking o-line to run the 3 wide set or the simply tee off on your QB.

Having Royal (a blocking TE) helps.

A bit worried about Parrish and even Davis (tall not that well built), escaping the jam. But yes, if they can get 10 past the jam, they are gone. Unless JP has bodies in his face.

I wonder if we can also run the zone blocking scheme from a 3 wide set. I prefer this scheme because it prevents missed assignments, they simply block whoever is in front of them, forces the D line to move laterally, and allows the RB to pick the hole or cut against the moevment. I think a big back with quicks and vision like McGahee could be a stud at this.

To be honest, I have NOT been a fan of keeping Moulds. But strangely after the Davis signing, I want him here. I guess I just see us being a stud O with a 3 wide set and Moulds, Evans, Davis. I hope he permanently fixes his attitude problem and takes the cut.

[madness]

You could be on to something there, ICE.

With the speed that Davis and Parrish have, opposing secondaries can't afford to crowd the line of scrimmage and risk getting beat deep because both guys are big-play deep receivers who will make them pay.

No love for Evans? :mad: :snicker:

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Oh, my bad! :shocked: I LOVE Evans!!! :bighug:

For some reason I typed Parrish's name when I thought that I was thinking of Evans and I missed that mistake when I proofed what I had written before posting it. :crap: I meant Evans. Oh, well, that's what can happen when you start getting old.... :crazy:

LBF :whip:

[ICE74129]

I think the Colts would disagree with that

I would much rather be in the playoffs / AFC Championship games and lose than keep up our current standard wouldn't you agree?

[Philagape]

Doesnt everyone remember the Antwoian Smithh mess? We ran the 1 back with 2 TE's and all it did was clog up the running holes with bodies, we barely made it past the line most of the time.

It's a colossal understatement to say Antowain is no Willis.