LifetimeBillsFan
03-14-2006, 02:07 AM
I am someone who feels that the best way to judge how good a college player may be in the pro is by watching him play--that all of the "measurables" (size, speed, strength, etc.) in the world won't tell you nearly as much as watching what a player does on the field play after play after play.
Having said that, I have some thoughts/concerns about the top pass-rushing DEs in this up-coming draft and, after offering some observations, I am hoping that perhaps someone can help me out with a question that I have:
There is no doubt in my mind that Mario Williams possesses a freakishly rare combination of height, weight, speed and quickness that makes him one of the most athletically gifted players in this draft. Physically he has the potential to be a superstar in the NFL. But, I must confess that, while I haven't watched all that many NC State games over the last two years, I cannot remember one NC State game that I did see when he dominated the game defensively. Certainly not like I recall Julius Peppers dominating some games when he played for Carolina. I do recall one game when Lawson, who played opposite Mario Williams, seemed to be everywhere and in on every tackle--which may have been due to the fact that the offense was paying so much attention to Williams that Lawson could dominate--but I don't remember ever seeing Mario Williams take a tight game by the scruff of the neck and put his team in a position to win it. Now, again, I didn't see that many of his games with NC State....
I understand why a lot of people have soured on Matthias Kiawanuka this year. As a junior, Kiwi looked like he was a sure-fire superstar in the making: he was utterly dominant, taking over several games during the season, until he got hurt at the end of the year. This season, however, was a different story: while he looked terrific in one game that I saw against poor opposition, he was a shadow of the player that he was the year before in the rest of the games that I saw, disappearing for long stretches of those games and even being dominated by the pass-blockers he was up against. And, then, he looked horrible going up against D.Ferguson in the Senior Bowl practices before he got hurt again. While he still might turn out to be a pretty good pass-rushing DE in the NFL, his performance this year--especially against better opposition--raises a lot of questions about just how good/consistent he can be on the NFL level. While I had him rated as the top returning DE going into this past season, he slipped a lot in my estimation and I have doubts about whether he will be the kind of impact player that you would expect a first round draft pick to be.
I also have some concerns about Tamba Hali as well. Coming into this past season, Hali didn't really impress me as a top-flight DE. He was so inconsistent, even at the beginning of this season, that I wasn't sure that he could be anything more than a good situational pass-rusher in the NFL. But, I got to see most of Penn State's games this year and really impressed me with the way that he improved over the course of the season. Hali actually became a dominating player. There were a couple of games towards the end of the season when Penn State's offense was really struggling against good teams where Hali just took over and refused to let the opposition get into position to score--I recall one game where he had sacks on successive downs to knock the other team out of FG position late in the game--and allowed PSU to win. While there were still times when Hali would seem to disappear for awhile, in the games that I saw at the end of the season, Hali always seemed to be a factor in the 4th Quarter. Now, like everyone else, Hali struggled in the Senior Bowl practices when he was matched up against D.Ferguson, but he played pretty well during the game. Obviously, Hali is nowhere near the physical specimen that Mario Williams is and that is likely to be more noticeable on the NFL level. And, the recent history of Penn State defensive linemen in the NFL has not been terribly good. But, unlike Mario Williams and Kiwi, I have seen Hali take over games on the defensive side of the ball against some pretty good opposition this season. And, despite my concerns about his size, inexperience, occasional inconsistency and Penn State pedigree, I like him and think that he is going to be a very good player in the NFL and, if he continues to improve as he has this past season, could be a real star. If it weren't for Mario Williams, I would definitely have Hali rated as the best DE in this draft.
Now, the question that I have is this: Has anyone here seen a number of NC State games over the last couple of seasons? And, if so, have you seen Mario Williams step up and dominate the opposition in any of their games against quality teams? If you have, could you please give me some information about those games, what you saw, stats, links, impressions--I would really be grateful for any kind of info that you might be able to offer. Thanks!
Right now I have Mario Williams rated above Tamba Hali based solely on the fact that he is so much more athletically gifted, etc. But, if I were to rate them just based on their performances in the games that I saw, I would rate Hali over Williams. As someone who values performance over numbers, normally I would be giving the edge to Hali. But, I have heard so much about Williams' unique athletic gifts that I feel that I am being forced to give Williams the edge without sufficient evidence that he has actually performed as well as his physical attributes say that he should. I would feel a lot more confident if someone could tell me that they have seen him actually be that dominant in some games--because, while Hali isn't the athlete that Williams is, I know that I have seen him be dominant in crunch time for a dominating defense against good opposition on the college level and I simply haven't had the chance to see that from Williams, who played on a physically talented defense that really wasn't that dominating in the games that I saw them play.
Having said that, I have some thoughts/concerns about the top pass-rushing DEs in this up-coming draft and, after offering some observations, I am hoping that perhaps someone can help me out with a question that I have:
There is no doubt in my mind that Mario Williams possesses a freakishly rare combination of height, weight, speed and quickness that makes him one of the most athletically gifted players in this draft. Physically he has the potential to be a superstar in the NFL. But, I must confess that, while I haven't watched all that many NC State games over the last two years, I cannot remember one NC State game that I did see when he dominated the game defensively. Certainly not like I recall Julius Peppers dominating some games when he played for Carolina. I do recall one game when Lawson, who played opposite Mario Williams, seemed to be everywhere and in on every tackle--which may have been due to the fact that the offense was paying so much attention to Williams that Lawson could dominate--but I don't remember ever seeing Mario Williams take a tight game by the scruff of the neck and put his team in a position to win it. Now, again, I didn't see that many of his games with NC State....
I understand why a lot of people have soured on Matthias Kiawanuka this year. As a junior, Kiwi looked like he was a sure-fire superstar in the making: he was utterly dominant, taking over several games during the season, until he got hurt at the end of the year. This season, however, was a different story: while he looked terrific in one game that I saw against poor opposition, he was a shadow of the player that he was the year before in the rest of the games that I saw, disappearing for long stretches of those games and even being dominated by the pass-blockers he was up against. And, then, he looked horrible going up against D.Ferguson in the Senior Bowl practices before he got hurt again. While he still might turn out to be a pretty good pass-rushing DE in the NFL, his performance this year--especially against better opposition--raises a lot of questions about just how good/consistent he can be on the NFL level. While I had him rated as the top returning DE going into this past season, he slipped a lot in my estimation and I have doubts about whether he will be the kind of impact player that you would expect a first round draft pick to be.
I also have some concerns about Tamba Hali as well. Coming into this past season, Hali didn't really impress me as a top-flight DE. He was so inconsistent, even at the beginning of this season, that I wasn't sure that he could be anything more than a good situational pass-rusher in the NFL. But, I got to see most of Penn State's games this year and really impressed me with the way that he improved over the course of the season. Hali actually became a dominating player. There were a couple of games towards the end of the season when Penn State's offense was really struggling against good teams where Hali just took over and refused to let the opposition get into position to score--I recall one game where he had sacks on successive downs to knock the other team out of FG position late in the game--and allowed PSU to win. While there were still times when Hali would seem to disappear for awhile, in the games that I saw at the end of the season, Hali always seemed to be a factor in the 4th Quarter. Now, like everyone else, Hali struggled in the Senior Bowl practices when he was matched up against D.Ferguson, but he played pretty well during the game. Obviously, Hali is nowhere near the physical specimen that Mario Williams is and that is likely to be more noticeable on the NFL level. And, the recent history of Penn State defensive linemen in the NFL has not been terribly good. But, unlike Mario Williams and Kiwi, I have seen Hali take over games on the defensive side of the ball against some pretty good opposition this season. And, despite my concerns about his size, inexperience, occasional inconsistency and Penn State pedigree, I like him and think that he is going to be a very good player in the NFL and, if he continues to improve as he has this past season, could be a real star. If it weren't for Mario Williams, I would definitely have Hali rated as the best DE in this draft.
Now, the question that I have is this: Has anyone here seen a number of NC State games over the last couple of seasons? And, if so, have you seen Mario Williams step up and dominate the opposition in any of their games against quality teams? If you have, could you please give me some information about those games, what you saw, stats, links, impressions--I would really be grateful for any kind of info that you might be able to offer. Thanks!
Right now I have Mario Williams rated above Tamba Hali based solely on the fact that he is so much more athletically gifted, etc. But, if I were to rate them just based on their performances in the games that I saw, I would rate Hali over Williams. As someone who values performance over numbers, normally I would be giving the edge to Hali. But, I have heard so much about Williams' unique athletic gifts that I feel that I am being forced to give Williams the edge without sufficient evidence that he has actually performed as well as his physical attributes say that he should. I would feel a lot more confident if someone could tell me that they have seen him actually be that dominant in some games--because, while Hali isn't the athlete that Williams is, I know that I have seen him be dominant in crunch time for a dominating defense against good opposition on the college level and I simply haven't had the chance to see that from Williams, who played on a physically talented defense that really wasn't that dominating in the games that I saw them play.