For PHILSTER

[patmoran2006]

38 of the Top 50 UFA's on ESPN's list is gone.. 6 of the 12 remaining are corners and kickers, plus Sam Adams.

ESPN.com - NFL - Pasquarelli: Top 50 UFAs (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2360759)

At the start of Free Agency on March 10, 13 of the other 31 teams in the league had less salary cap money than Buffalo, and that INCLUDES Eric Moulds still being on the roster.

ESPN.com - NFL - Clayton: Salary cap status of all 32 teams (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2349505)

And like I said, that DOESNT include Eric MOuld's cap figure, or Bennie Anderson's, who even you agree is a bum who needs to get cut.. that's without re-doing a single contract either to free up more cap money.

Yet, Tennessee, who started March 10 with just $6.2 in cap room goes out and gets David Givens, Kevin Mawae and Chris Hope; three guys that I"m sure would have been tremendous upgrades AT Positions Buffalo needs.

The Giants went out and totally revamped their secondary, their biggest weakness.

Miami was in worst cap shape then us yet ended up with one of the best QB's in the league in Duante Culpepper not to mention a left tackle in LJ SHelton (who wasn't 'good' enough for Donahoe last year) and they will likely end up with Peterson or Arrington.

Carolina was worse-off than Buffalo yet landed Kemoeatu and Justin Hartwig. I"m pretty sure Buffalo would love a strong center and huge NT like Kemo right now.

Lastly, I dont even have to recall what Washington did with less cap room. Forget about El, who was overpaid.. How about Archuleta? Or Andre Carter?

That's not "Chicken Little". .Those are FACTS

You can call it Chicken Little.. You can call is "spam".. YOu can call it TOS
I call it since FA began March 10, a team that needs impact players and has cap room to do it simply DROPPED THE BALL.. As a whole, this orginazation has looked woefully unprepared for what was to take place come March 10. Our owner doesn't even understand what the CBA even means.

It didnt take Marv's IVY league degree to realize that taking the majority of your freed up cap money and getting the most impact O and D linemen was of the most importance.

This was a losing team last year and so far they've gotten worst.
Even with a great draft this year, You're waiting 2-3 years at least for them to develop into great NFL players.

The year is 2006 and its the ERA of "worst to first", teams do it every year.. Its the ERA where money makes the world go 'round and where if your willing to spend the money you can get the players in you need to make a run.
This is just turned into an ownership where Wilson is dreadfully cheap. I know ICE will say "are you at OBD how do you know"..

It doesn't take Jay Gazler. Len Pasquarelli, or John Clayton to figure out that you're bringing Jason Fabini, Ryan Pickett and Stephen Neal and announcing the signings of Robert Royal, Andre Davis and Matt Bowen instead; it's because Wilson and/or Levy aren't offering money comparable to other teams; other teams that want to win for the fans NOW.

Call my Opinions "chicken little" "spam" or whatever you want. What's worse is being a HOMER and that's what some of you are. GOD forbid someone expresses on a message board no-less their frustration over a team trying to sell us lemons.

Maybe at some point (you know who you are) will be man enough to admit this organization is taking steps BACK, not forward. 18 months ago we were a borderline playof team. Its March of '06 and around the league, we're now the laughinstock of the NFL.

We had talent at key positions.. Our corners are among the best in the NFL, our LB's with TKO are as good as anybody. Willis is still learning his craft and yet still had 1,200 yards last year. Evans already has 16 TD's in two years.

We have PLENTY OF TALENT to NOT be a huge rebuilding project.. SPEND some money on the damn lines and I like our chances.. KNOCK the 3rd level FA crap off..

Neal and Runyan are out there and you got the cash.. GET THEM.. OVERPAY if you have too, they are that valuable to a franchise that NEEDS those kind of offensive linemen.. The last six years serve as EVIDENCE.!

Anybody who says those guys aren't vital to a team trying to turn it around.. Aren't chicken little or homers.

They're stupid.

[Mr. Pink]

All I have to say to this is AMEN!

[patmoran2006]

One thing I didnt even touch on was JP Losman.

Most here thinks the kid deserves a REAL audition, as do I.

Yet you want to build a line through the draft?

How can you put a raw kid in at QB and expect him to succeed with ROOKIES on the offensive line? If I have a young kid at QB, I want proven winners on the line blocking for him ESPECIALLY when I got the cash to do it.

I'll let you in a secret.. Big Ben is a good quarterback no matter what.. He's a GREAT quarterback, because the Steelers have an AWESOME offensive line. Every one of them have minimum four years of experience as well.

Maybe we should try that.

[Dicknoze69]

Not to discount what you are saying, but Lenny P. ain't exactly a NFL personnel chief.

I'd trust my own opinions before I trusted his.

[patmoran2006]

Dick.. I agree.. My point was it doesnt take a NATIONALLY known media figure to know what's going on at OBD.

[Dr. Lecter]

That this team needs more than one year to re-build?

[patmoran2006]

Teams that are "rebuilding" seem to be doing a lot more with less, as I demonstrated earlier.

[Bling]

That this team needs more than one year to re-build?

Re-building is such Bull****. Miami "rebuilded" in a year. Went from 4-12 without a QB, RB, OL, DL, LBs, FS. They went ahead and fixed every position except QB and FS in the offseason via FA (except Ronnie Brown via DRAFT), spent money on coaching and is now 9-7 going into the season with a QB. Quit being homers, and realize YOU CAN BUILD A TEAM via FA. YOU CAN BUILD A TEAM period. WTF do you have to make it so complicated to create a team? Spend money on starters, and not scrubs, and you might compete. Otherwise you look like the Cardinals.

[Dicknoze69]

Dick.. I agree.. My point was it doesnt take a NATIONALLY known media figure to know what's going on at OBD.

Unfortunately it's fairly well known we are regarded as "cheap". My hope is that Marv & Co. are aiming at up and coming players, who they personally regard as building blocks for us.

I'll admit that the lack of big-name players and/or knowledge of negotiations is frustrating. But I'm more than willing to let FA play out a little bit and see where we are.

I figure that it's either "Trust in Marv" or concede that they don't have a clue and are cheap. I can't let myself just rail against the Bills regime as being hopeless.

[patmoran2006]

Re-building is such Bull****. Miami "rebuilded" in a year. Went from 4-12 without a QB, RB, OL, DL, LBs, FS. They went ahead and fixed every position except QB and FS in the offseason via FA (except Ronnie Brown via DRAFT), spent money on coaching and is now 9-7 going into the season with a QB. Quit being homers, and realize YOU CAN BUILD A TEAM via FA. YOU CAN BUILD A TEAM period. WTF do you have to make it so complicated to create a team? Spend money on starters, and not scrubs, and you might compete. Otherwise you look like the Cardinals.

I hate the Dolphins.. But you are 100% right.

I'm not asking for the world via FA.. I dont think its outta line as a fan to say to Wilson "our line blows, everybody knows this.. knock this character and draft crap off and go get Runyan and Neal".

Lets see . Runyan/Neal vs Gandy/Anderson.. My 12-year old son can figure that one out.

Get Runyan and Neal via FA.. Draft Bunkley or Ngata in round one and the best safety or DE in round two.. thats not rebuilding.. thats INTELLIGENCE.

[Bling]

Get Runyan and Neal via FA.. Draft Bunkley or Ngata in round one and the best safety or DE in round two.. thats not rebuilding.. thats INTELLIGENCE.

Do that, and the Bills are on their way to a 7-9, 8-8 team. How exciting!

[Mr. Pink]

Re-building is such Bull****. Miami "rebuilded" in a year. Went from 4-12 without a QB, RB, OL, DL, LBs, FS. They went ahead and fixed every position except QB and FS in the offseason via FA (except Ronnie Brown via DRAFT), spent money on coaching and is now 9-7 going into the season with a QB. Quit being homers, and realize YOU CAN BUILD A TEAM via FA. YOU CAN BUILD A TEAM period. WTF do you have to make it so complicated to create a team? Spend money on starters, and not scrubs, and you might compete. Otherwise you look like the Cardinals.

Hell you don't even have to go back to last year to see a team that rebuilded in one year, now we have no idea how good Cleveland is going to be this year but they went out in ONE FREE AGENCY PERIOD, and brought in lets see, 6 starters out of the 7 total guys they signed. And Bentley, Joe J and Shaffer count for a grand total of 7 million against the cap because the owner was willing to pay bonus money. Buffalo had more than double that to spend, cap wise, yet you don't see ANY players of that quality here. Why is that?

[patmoran2006]

Do that, and the Bills are on their way to a 7-9, 8-8 team. How exciting!

Do that, and 2 of those 7 wins will come against the Miami Dolphins.

[patmoran2006]

Hell you don't even have to go back to last year to see a team that rebuilded in one year, now we have no idea how good Cleveland is going to be this year but they went out in ONE FREE AGENCY PERIOD, and brought in lets see, 6 starters out of the 7 total guys they signed. And Bentley, Joe J and Shaffer count for a grand total of 7 million against the cap because the owner was willing to pay bonus money. Buffalo had more than double that to spend, cap wise, yet you don't see ANY players of that quality here. Why is that?

Ralph Wilsonstein.

[Nighthawk]

Re-building is such Bull****. Miami "rebuilded" in a year. Went from 4-12 without a QB, RB, OL, DL, LBs, FS. They went ahead and fixed every position except QB and FS in the offseason via FA (except Ronnie Brown via DRAFT), spent money on coaching and is now 9-7 going into the season with a QB. Quit being homers, and realize YOU CAN BUILD A TEAM via FA. YOU CAN BUILD A TEAM period. WTF do you have to make it so complicated to create a team? Spend money on starters, and not scrubs, and you might compete. Otherwise you look like the Cardinals.

Bling, this kills me...but, GREAT POST! I do agree that a team can address some major holes with paying good money for the right player. That is not a bad thing, for some reason it has become taboo around here to think that the Bills should actually spend money to fix their OL problem, why? Maybe people just have too much faith in the new regime because of the nostalgia of Marv being back, maybe some are just tired of being so critical, but in the end I think the biggest reason why people go along with whatever comes out of One Bills Drive is that they are fans. We're not the experts, so we feel the GM should have a grasp of what is going on. However, it doesn't always work out that way...see Tom Donahoe's resume. We don't want to believe that we might actually take a step back, even further than TD took us, so we start to rationalize it by saying; "the new regime has a plan, they know what they're doing." This might be true, this might not...but one thing that I believe is very evident up until this point in FA is that the Bills have not become any better on the OL. Thus, this is why all the negative comments are being written. WE as fans can tell what is wrong with the team, but we have yet to address it appropriately. It's very aggravating and not everybody feels that going through the draft is going to help that area of the team immediately. If this is the case, then we as fans have to come to the realization that we're going to be pretty bad next year and that is not what people want to think about going in to a brand new season. In the end, it is the feeling that we won't be any better next year that makes everybody cynical and negative. IMO - Sorry for the rant...but I felt it had to be said.:2cents:

[patmoran2006]

Bling, this kills me...but, GREAT POST! I do agree that a team can address some major holes with paying good money for the right player. That is not a bad thing, for some reason it has become taboo around here to think that the Bills should actually spend money to fix their OL problem, why? Maybe people just have too much faith in the new regime because of the nostalgia of Marv being back, maybe some are just tired of being so critical, but in the end I think the biggest reason why people go along with whatever comes out of One Bills Drive is that they are fans. We're not the experts, so we feel the GM should have a grasp of what is going on. However, it doesn't always work out that way...see Tom Donahoe's resume. We don't want to believe that we might actually take a step back, even further than TD took us, so we start to rationalize it by saying; "the new regime has a plan, they know what they're doing." This might be true, this might not...but one thing that I believe is very evident up until this point in FA is that the Bills have not become any better on the OL. Thus, this is why all the negative comments are being written. WE as fans can tell what is wrong with the team, but we have yet to address it appropriately. It's very aggravating and not everybody feels that going through the draft is going to help that area of the team immediately. If this is the case, then we as fans have to come to the realization that we're going to be pretty bad next year and that is not what people want to think about going in to a brand new season. In the end, it is the feeling that we won't be any better next year that makes everybody cynical and negative. IMO - Sorry for the rant...but I felt it had to be said.:2cents:

:beers:

[DaBills]

I think you build the line through BOTH the draft and FA. You grab a Runyan in FA and draft one or two in April. That way, you have some vet leadership. to hopefully stabilize things.

[Dicknoze69]

I think you build the line through BOTH the draft and FA. You grab a Runyan in FA and draft one or two in April. That way, you have some vet leadership. to hopefully stabilize things.

Honestly, I'd bring in enough lineman to make up for the past 5 year's lack of them.

[Nighthawk]

I think you build the line through BOTH the draft and FA. You grab a Runyan in FA and draft one or two in April. That way, you have some vet leadership. to hopefully stabilize things.

Very true, but you have to sign somebody who is better than what you have already on roster via FA. I just don't see any other way to not repeat what has been happening here in the past on the OL. If we get one solid OL via FA, I will be happy. There are a couple of them left, so maybe we'll still get one.

[patmoran2006]

Runyan and Neal with Tripplett would make this a sucessful FA period..

Runyan I havent heard is coming to town anytime soon and Neal already did and left w/o a contract.. obviously

[Dicknoze69]

It's very possible they offered Neal a contract, and he's taking some time to mull it over. We really have no clue.

Marv seems to operate in secrecy, which is what I would do.

[patmoran2006]

LEts hope you are right DICK.. SEeing they signed Wells to an offer, I'm thinking thats not the case.. But we'll see. Hope that offer to neal increases, a lot.

[kgun12]

Re-building is such Bull****. Miami "rebuilded" in a year. Went from 4-12 without a QB, RB, OL, DL, LBs, FS. They went ahead and fixed every position except QB and FS in the offseason via FA (except Ronnie Brown via DRAFT), spent money on coaching and is now 9-7 going into the season with a QB. Quit being homers, and realize YOU CAN BUILD A TEAM via FA. YOU CAN BUILD A TEAM period. WTF do you have to make it so complicated to create a team? Spend money on starters, and not scrubs, and you might compete. Otherwise you look like the Cardinals.

Good post. The problem with the Bills is very simple, we have an owner who has seen better days and the game has past him by. I do agree we can't sign every FA out there, but when you have an Oline as bad as ours, you can't fix it just by the draft. It's not fair to the team, JP or the fans. Hell we haven't addressed it at all, but we got a friggin TE for 2 Million a year, and a couple of who care guys. I hope they develop, but FA isn't about bring in guys to develop, it is about upgrading positions. Which we haven't done, we have actually gotten worse on both sides of the line. The only thing for sure about not spending money, it makes for another losing season, lower season tickets and another high pick in next years draft. Like Pat said there are teams that got a whole lot better in the first 10 days of FA and with a whole lot less money. Again I don't think you have to go out and get every big name player, but FA is about getting better, not developing players, That is what the draft is for!

[Bill Brasky]

Good post. The problem with the Bills is very simple, we have an owner who has seen better days and the game has past him by. I do agree we can't sign every FA out there, but when you have an Oline as bad as ours, you can't fix it just by the draft. It's not fair to the team, JP or the fans. Hell we haven't addressed it at all, but we got a friggin TE for 2 Million a year, and a couple of who care guys. I hope they develop, but FA isn't about bring in guys to develop, it is about upgrading positions. Which we haven't done, we have actually gotten worse on both sides of the line. The only thing for sure about not spending money, it makes for another losing season, lower season tickets and another high pick in next years draft. Like Pat said there are teams that got a whole lot better in the first 10 days of FA and with a whole lot less money. Again I don't think you have to go out and get every big name player, but FA is about getting better, not developing players, That is what the draft is for!

:bf1:

[DaBills]

"Honestly, I'd bring in enough lineman to make up for the past 5 year's lack of them."


There ain’t enough in the history of the league for that.

;-p

[Marvelous]

One thing I didnt even touch on was JP Losman.

Most here thinks the kid deserves a REAL audition, as do I.

Yet you want to build a line through the draft?

How can you put a raw kid in at QB and expect him to succeed with ROOKIES on the offensive line? If I have a young kid at QB, I want proven winners on the line blocking for him ESPECIALLY when I got the cash to do it.

I'll let you in a secret.. Big Ben is a good quarterback no matter what.. He's a GREAT quarterback, because the Steelers have an AWESOME offensive line. Every one of them have minimum four years of experience as well.

Maybe we should try that.

This is what i've been saying & thinking all along.. I have had so many arguments about this with Bilsl fans who wan't to draft a whole offensive line.. 1st of all JP sucked even when he had time last year. The proof is to just rewatch any game he played in last year for plays where he has time.. I dunno if he is a bust or not, but it's looking that way... We must have insurance @ QB in case he is!!!!!

I think we misssed the boat on some FA lineman this FA. We didn't need a tackle as much as a experienced guard or center. mawae woulda been nice. The exp he brings woulda helped us alot and woulda helped Preston groom.. Trey Teague was awful in pass protection last year. I never knew he was sooo awful until i rewatched some games and was just focusing on the o-line.... i hope Arizona passes on Wells. I don't care if we overpaid. The kid is a starter. And we have plenty of money.. If he pans out it was so worth it. If he doesn't we cut him, eat some dead cap and move on. No biggie......... FA is long from over Patmoran. Why do you b!tch & complain so much? OBD isn't listening to you here so wait until AF is over to pass such negative judgement...

[Mr. Cynical]

To sum up.

Wilson = old and out of touch.
Levy = old and out of touch.

One need look no further than the signing of Dick as the head coach to understand this. This team will not get better until we have a new owner.

Sorry if that stings, but the truth often hurts.

Excerpt from an article that IMO shows RW peaked with Polian and has been in decline ever since:

"Despite all Polian’s successes though, insiders say his less than diplomatic approach around the office, and maybe even a perceived lack of respect at times towards the owner, moved Wilson to fire him during the season the Bills reached Super Bowl XXVII in Pasadena.

Polian knew it, but outside of Levy, nobody else in the organization knew it, and Polian stayed on to minimize a distraction toward another SB run. That says an awful lot about Polian, who has since built a powerhouse at Indy."

http://www.wgrz.com/sports/sports_article.aspx?storyid=33843

[The_Philster]

It's about a week into free agency. No team builds up every spot they need in that short amount of time...to think we're doomed to failure because of those unrealistic expectations is akin to saying "the Sky is Falling" hence, Chicken Little. Happens every year. Am I happy with what moves we've made so far? No...I would've liked a few more to be made..but whining about it in post after post after post looks pretty damn stupid and starts to ruin any credibility you might have.

[kgun12]

It's about a week into free agency. No team builds up every spot they need in that short amount of time...to think we're doomed to failure because of those unrealistic expectations is akin to saying "the Sky is Falling" hence, Chicken Little. Happens every year. Am I happy with what moves we've made so far? No...I would've liked a few more to be made..but whining about it in post after post after post looks pretty damn stupid and starts to ruin any credibility you might have.

I gotta say Phil your right in saying no team builds up every position in that short of time, however we haven't upgraded in a single position yet, and by the looks of what's left at the positions we need in to upgrade in it is going to be extremely hard to do that! There are no unrealistic expectation here, with the money we had at the start of FA we should have been able to go after and get players that would have upgraded our OL and DL. Instead we signed players that at best will contribute on speacial teams and to give guys a rest. If they end up as starters we are in worse shape than last year. This is a chat board, this is where you complain about your team cause there isn't any other way to vent, well maybe at the ticket office. I think NOT looking through rose colored glasses and stating your displeasure with the way things have gone is a lot more creditable than defending an owner who has lost the ability to work within the rules of FA. It would be different if this was after one losing season, but this is our 6th year of not addressing the same problems.

I think there is a very good reason we have DJ as our head coach, he was explained the rule at OBD, that there won't be big signing bonuses and we will go after players on the cheap. DJ was the only one willing to except the job under those terms. Him and Levy were just happy to have a job!

Again FA is were you get impact players that help your team RIGHT NOW, the draft is to get players to develop. The comcept is a simple one for most owners, but not Ralph.

[ILOVEMIBILLS]

I can understand what you're saying. To an extent, I agree with you. However, I'm going to try and look on the more positive side that we'll get the #1 pick next year, bring in Brady Quinn, and also have money to spend in FA. After all, we shouldn't take up all the cap room now when we can have more next year when there is a better market. Most experts agreed that this was one of the weakest FA classes in recent memory. Most of the guys left are old or injury prone (or both) anyway.

[The_Philster]

We could very easily eat up a lot of that cap space with just a few signings. As far as the signings we made, we don't know. Maybe they could come in and be better than what we had. I'm not a pro at evaluating talent...nor should any of us (outside of Ingtar) claim to be.
As far as the complaining, it's not the displeasure being shown that's the problem...it's the excessive use of the same complaints over and over and over. How many threads does pat have to post saying the same things?

[kgun12]

We could very easily eat up a lot of that cap space with just a few signings.

Not true!!! According to ESPN's NUmbers We had $14.1 million at the start of FA NOT including the Moulds. Look what other teams have done with FAR LESS

Look at what the giants did with $9.9 million

CB Jason Bell UFA
S Will Demps UFA
S Quentin Harris UFA
CB Sam Madison UFA
CB R.W. McQuarters UFA
OT Bob Whitfield UFA
CB Brandon Williams

How about Miami $6.3 million

CB Andre' Goodman UFA
OLB Sedrick Hodge UFA
RB Travis Minor UFA
OT L.J. Shelton
QB D Culpepper trade

Tennessee $6.2 million

WR David Givens UFA
S Chris Hope UFA 4
C Kevin Mawae UFA
OLB David Thornton

Baltimore $10.6 million

RB Mike Anderson UFA
DT Justin Bannan UFA
RB Jamal Lewis UFA
DT Trevor Pryce UFA
OLB Bart Scott UFA
RB Musa Smith RFA

Buffalo $14.1

S Matt Bowen UFA project
WR Andre Davis hopefully
OLB Mario Haggan our own ?
OG Greg Jerman UFA ? backup ?
WR Josh Reed UFA 4 done nothing in 4 years
TE Robert Royal UFA a total waste of money could have use it for an Olinemen
C Mike Schneck UFA everyone needs one
DT Larry Tripplett UFA means nothing without another vet next to him!
OLB Josh Stamer oh boy

FA is to make us better, are we?

[The_Philster]

so because they don't have highly recognizable names, they are worthless...I see what you're saying :scratch:

question for you..did any of those teams have as many holes to fill as we do?

[lynobx]

Has Wys resurfaced as patmoran?

[Nighthawk]

We could very easily eat up a lot of that cap space with just a few signings. As far as the signings we made, we don't know. Maybe they could come in and be better than what we had. I'm not a pro at evaluating talent...nor should any of us (outside of Ingtar) claim to be.
As far as the complaining, it's not the displeasure being shown that's the problem...it's the excessive use of the same complaints over and over and over. How many threads does pat have to post saying the same things?

I can see your point of view.

[kgun12]

so because they don't have highly recognizable names, they are worthless...I see what you're saying :scratch:

question for you..did any of those teams have as many holes to fill as we do?

Not only aren't they recognizable and worthless like Royals. With all the problems on this team that was not one and I damn sure wouldn't have spent $2 million dollars on him. Again we could have used that money to make a better offer to one of the top Olinemen. As for the rest with the exception of Tripplett and BTW will be worthless like Adams was without a compliment, are a down grade from what we already have on this team or let go.

As far as your question about them having as many holes to fill as we do, you make my point! The reason they don't have as many holes is they fill the few holes they have every year, unlike the Bills who either totally negect them year after year (Oline) or keep trying to fill them with inferior talent!

To make this team better Ralph has got to open his wallet, without that 5-11 here we come again!

[ICE74129]

That this team needs more than one year to re-build?

LMAO Good call doc.

[ICE74129]

so because they don't have highly recognizable names, they are worthless...I see what you're saying :scratch:

question for you..did any of those teams have as many holes to fill as we do?

Phil help me with this....didn't one of the people who started this site get ran off for the same amount of spam? And wasn't it the excessive negativity as well?

[YardRat]

I'm happy with FA so far, believe it or not.

Royals was an instant upgrade for the o-line, probably a better move than over-paying for an over-the-hill tackle like Runyan.

Tripplett was a good signing at DT, and Marv hopped on him pretty quickly. Pickett would've been a nice addition, but face it-GB paid way to much for what I expect they'll get in return, and there are DT's available in the draft that I'm betting will be able to produce for us as well as Pickett would've with a less costly price tag.

Davis is a decent WR, certainly not a star. We've already got Evans, Parrish, Reed, and Moulds isn't completely out of the picture yet. 10mil this year, possibly 25 over 5 for TO? No thanks. Keyshawn? An overpaid big mouth. No thanks, again.

As for Bowen, he really hasn't stood out so far, but may pan out pretty well under the new defensive scheme...I'm willing to give him a shot.

Neal would be a nice signing, and if Buffalo can pull him into the fold without breaking the bank it would be a nice upgrade at guard.

I'd rather see Ralph and Marv take their approach to FA then follow Snyder's or Jones' path...What the hell has either one of those teams won in the last 10 years?

New England won three SB's without over-paying for 'names'. Pittsburgh won through the draft. St Louis won through the draft and with judicious FA signings, as did Baltimore. Tampa Bay won with the same team they built through the draft, with the exception of the coach and Simeon Rice. Denver won back to back with players they drafted, not overspent for in FA.

When was the last time a team that won a Super Bowl by throwing around money on expensive, big-name FA's ?? Ever ??

[kgun12]

Phil help me with this....didn't one of the people who started this site get ran off for the same amount of spam? And wasn't it the excessive negativity as well?

Yes, but the funny part he was as right about Bledsoe as the ones who are complaining about FA. The problem was nobody wanted to hear that either. So rather than face the truth they ran him off. Just think if you guys run all the peole off that don't think think you, there will be nothing to discuss. Boy will that be fun!!! Someone can post something and everyone can just post "I agree. Now that will make for some great stuff.

[patmoran2006]

I didnt/don't expect them to sign every big free agent that's on the market.. But $14 million not including Moulds easily gave us the money to fix four KEY problems that lead this team to 5-11 records. These spots are:

DT- We had Pickett in town and couldn't seal the deal.. I wonder why? Pickett/Tripplett = you aint running up the middle on us anymore.. Done deal.

LG- We tried to sign Wells. Why we spent time on him when the Cards got a ton more cap room, invested on Edge and want guys to block for him.. I have no clue.. But that's 0-for-2. Neal, a UFA who is Hutch compared to Bennie Anderson, was in town. I can't fathom how we didnt sign him.

OT- With Runyan that's addressed. NOthing more, nothing less. I say there's about 50 people on this board who know what aint happening.

S- If you insist on going by a cover-two safety, Corey Chavous would have been a perfect fit. Marlon McCree or Dexter Jackson would have been real nice too. WE got Matt Bowens. Gregg Williams is a defensive guru, I'm pretty sure if he wanted Bowens in Washington Snyder woulda made it happen. Enuf said.

That's four key spots that could have and should have been filled through FA.. Combined they would have costed less than $8-9 mill against the salary cap and we could have approached the draft with a different agenda.

We could have the option of trading down, picking up extra picks to stock up and replaced Moulds with either Santonio Holmes or Chad Jackson.. Or We could have taken Tamba Hali to upgrade over Kelsay.

Now because of Wilson's cheapness, we prettymuch have no choice than to take Ngata first and an offensive tackle second... Unless we do trade down, because Wilson is to cheap to pay out top-ten draft money, which no longer surprises me.

Call it Chicken Little all you want.. The bottom line is I am right and even you know it.. But as long as Wilson has fans like you that dont mind shelling out their hard-earned cash for tickets, Wilson aint ever changing his ways... and this team aint ever going anywhere.

Football futures already has us picking first next year.. It's still march.. It's just a sample of what a league-wide joke we become.

[patmoran2006]

Phil help me with this....didn't one of the people who started this site get ran off for the same amount of spam? And wasn't it the excessive negativity as well?

Waaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.. There you go again.. Why dont you offer a point (for once) of relevance.. all you do is whine and cry spam when someone is "negative".. I"m not "negative" I am truthful.

How is something spamming when its provided with facts and figures? maybe u should go re-read the post and the majority of comments by others.

What's your opinion on everything.. Wahhh Phil they're negative and its spam.. <TISSUE please>

Then again you can use your famous Brilliant Ice quote of the week
"fix the lines"

Yer a joke.

[ICE74129]

Waaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.. There you go again.. Why dont you offer a point (for once) of relevance.. all you do is whine and cry spam when someone is "negative".. I"m not "negative" I am truthful.

How is something spamming when its provided with facts and figures? maybe u should go re-read the post and the majority of comments by others.

What's your opinion on everything.. Wahhh Phil they're negative and its spam.. <tissue please="">

Then again you can use your famous Brilliant Ice quote of the week
"fix the lines"

Yer a joke.

Pat I say this in all seriouness, You have more complaints lately than anyone else to the mods and Admin. Don't be shocked when something happens.
</tissue>

[Dr. Lecter]

To repeat, Royal is listed as a TE but is essentially an O-lineman. So those that say the Bills have done NOTHING on the O-line are wrong. Would I have prefferred somebody else signed already? Yes. But Royal will help the blocking of this team

[ICE74129]

Pat I say this in all seriouness, You have more complaints lately than anyone else to the mods and Admin. Don't be shocked when something happens.

and BTW we have tried to explain out why things are happening the way they are. Why marv isn't going to go after some, why some dont' want to come here even though we offer contracts. And why right now this process has to play out the way it is. Those too are facts. Your point we got about 5000 posts ago, that is why it's spam.

[Dr. Lecter]

DT- We had Pickett in town and couldn't seal the deal.. I wonder why? Pickett/Tripplett = you aint running up the middle on us anymore.. Done deal.

Didn't GB have about 3X the cap space the Bills did?

[kgun12]

Phil help me with this....didn't one of the people who started this site get ran off for the same amount of spam? And wasn't it the excessive negativity as well?

Besides is this not the BILLS FORUM and aren't we suppose to talk about the BILLS in this forum? What is the biggest thing going on with the BILLS and the NFL? Free agency! Isn't that what is being talked about? Aren't we supposed to debate the moves or lack there of? Or are we suppose to just blindly follow them and just be happy with the guys they sign, know matter if they will fix this team NOW. And I guess we should just sit back watch teams with less money fill there hole and be happy fo them, cause they have an owner willing to use FA the right way, and watch aswe fill our holes year after year with 3rd, 4th , and 5th tier guys and hope a blind squirrel find a nut every once in awhile! If that's what you want this is going to be a boring place! :(

[patmoran2006]

DT- We had Pickett in town and couldn't seal the deal.. I wonder why? Pickett/Tripplett = you aint running up the middle on us anymore.. Done deal.

Didn't GB have about 3X the cap space the Bills did?

I doubt they would pay 3x what we would.. Then again, maybe that's wrong.

[patmoran2006]

How do you put somebody on ignore for all threads so you dont have to be bothered by someone's ignorance of knowledge to anything football-related?

I'm only interested in hearing someone's views about the Bills and Football. Not about someone crying to the MODs because they can't engage in any kind of football conversation that expands beyond two sentences.

anyone know how to ignore another member?

[kgun12]

DT- We had Pickett in town and couldn't seal the deal.. I wonder why? Pickett/Tripplett = you aint running up the middle on us anymore.. Done deal.

Didn't GB have about 3X the cap space the Bills did?

Yes but how do you expalin all the teams that didn't have as much picking up far better players than we have. ie Miami, Tennessee and the Giants to name a few!

[Dr. Lecter]

I didn't say they pid 3X the amount, just that they had much more. The idea of the Bills blowing their load on one guy in FA (When it is a position that IS draftable at #8) would be silly.

I would rather see guys like Wells, Neal (?), Thomas, etc than one Pickett.

[Dr. Lecter]

Yes but how do you expalin all the teams that didn't have as much picking up far better players than we have. ie Miami, Tennessee and the Giants to name a few!

With the exception of Culpepper who has Miami picked up? LJ Shelton sucks and is no better than Gandy. Goodman and Tripplett are about equal. The Giants have sined older players, somethign the Bills do not need.

And I think that is another point being missed. I see no reason for the Bills to sign guys past their prime (Mawae, Madison, etc.) This team is not gunning for very much this year.

[The_Philster]

As far as Royal goes, I agree. TE wasn't a big need position going into the offseason so long as Everett pans out. Campbell being cut made it a bigger need...but I don't think Royal should be getting as much as he is....he'd better pan out in a big way.

As far as putting someone on ignore, go to his profile...there's a link on that profile

[patmoran2006]

With the exception of Culpepper who has Miami picked up? LJ Shelton sucks and is no better than Gandy. Goodman and Tripplett are about equal. The Giants have sined older players, somethign the Bills do not need.

And I think that is another point being missed. I see no reason for the Bills to sign guys past their prime (Mawae, Madison, etc.) This team is not gunning for very much this year.

I agree with the exception of center.. and tackle... . Mawae would have been an very important addition and could have mentored Preston a year or two before taking over. His signing with Tenn showed it was about who would pay him, not who wil contend for a Super Bowl.

At tackle, the team can't afford a younger tackle in his prime. You also have a young QB in here, so I say you go out and get a Runyan and draft a tackle in the second or third round and develop him under RUnyan.

YOu know, part of "rebuilding" as i hear on this board more than anywhere else in history.. Is having solid, even a few OLD veterans on the team to teach the surplus of younger guys we're bringing in.

[kgun12]

With the exception of Culpepper who has Miami picked up? LJ Shelton sucks and is no better than Gandy. Goodman and Tripplett are about equal. The Giants have sined older players, somethign the Bills do not need.

And I think that is another point being missed. I see no reason for the Bills to sign guys past their prime (Mawae, Madison, etc.) This team is not gunning for very much this year.

Every year we bring in guys that we can "build for the future" but it never works out. Do you really think that fans will ket buying this? I sure hope so, cause if they don't bye bye Bills. I guess we will find out this year by the attendence. Then will see if we are on the right path. Would you like to make a bet that we don't sell out all 8 home games like last year?

[BillsFever21]

Not only aren't they recognizable and worthless like Royals. With all the problems on this team that was not one and I damn sure wouldn't have spent $2 million dollars on him. Again we could have used that money to make a better offer to one of the top Olinemen. As for the rest with the exception of Tripplett and BTW will be worthless like Adams was without a compliment, are a down grade from what we already have on this team or let go.

As far as your question about them having as many holes to fill as we do, you make my point! The reason they don't have as many holes is they fill the few holes they have every year, unlike the Bills who either totally negect them year after year (Oline) or keep trying to fill them with inferior talent!

To make this team better Ralph has got to open his wallet, without that 5-11 here we come again!

It's just Phil being a company man again. These guys have never done anything in the NFL but because the Bills signed them they could be great pickups.

This happens every year and every year we suck. He'll ask us if we think we are smarter then the people running the team. Even though we never get better he still has trust in the moves every year.

All these homers would be laughing if this was the Dolphins or Jets.

[The_Philster]

It's just Phil being a company man again. wanna do me and yourself a favor and read my posts before spouting off about me? :rolleyes: It looks ridiculous the way you're doing it...dishonesty is a disgusting trait to have

[BillsFever21]

Every hole we had going into the offseason is still there except for one DT. If you think Matt Bowen and all this other junk is the answer then you're a homer.

Then we keep guys like Josh Reed for 2.5 million a year. Going into the offseason even the homers hated him and expected him gone. Now he's back in Buffalo and all of a sudden he could be a key peice to the puzzle.

We have nothing to show for this offseason except for some backups. We've dished out millions for backups that could've been had in the draft.

Instead of dishing out millions in backups and trying to fill the holes on unsure things in the draft we could've used them millions to bring in already good players and filled or backup and a couple starting spots in the draft.

[Mr. Pink]

It's just Phil being a company man again. These guys have never done anything in the NFL but because the Bills signed them they could be great pickups.

This happens every year and every year we suck. He'll ask us if we think we are smarter then the people running the team. Even though we never get better he still has trust in the moves every year.

All these homers would be laughing if this was the Dolphins or Jets.

Hell all these homers bash on the Dolphins for landing Daunte Culpepper. Who's light years better than any QB on this roster. They bash the Cowboys for getting TO, again light years better than any WR on this roster, Emo included.

Then they bash other teams for going out and getting "name players" in the free agent market because they (gasp) overpaid for them! Apparently every other team in the NFL is dumb for overpaying for these guys and we're smart as an organization for not getting involved in that. Problem is those are the teams that get better while we sit and wallow in mediocrity YEAR after Year.

[BillsFever21]

Now we're all liars again. Heard that one before.

If I ever own a business I want Phil to work for me. No matter how bad the business is you could make Phil believe it's going in the right direction and he will be by your side the entire way.

A company guy is somebody who always thinks the best is gonna happen and god forbid thinks it's gonna get better and you go out of your way to stand up for the company no matter how bad it keeps on getting. Sounds like some people's fandom around here.

[BillsFever21]

Hell all these homers bash on the Dolphins for landing Daunte Culpepper. Who's light years better than any QB on this roster. They bash the Cowboys for getting TO, again light years better than any WR on this roster, Emo included.

Then they bash other teams for going out and getting "name players" in the free agent market because they (gasp) overpaid for them! Apparently every other team in the NFL is dumb for overpaying for these guys and we're smart as an organization for not getting involved in that. Problem is those are the teams that get better while we sit and wallow in mediocrity YEAR after Year.

Exactly. They always think we're making the right decisions and all these other teams are crazy even though they're the ones winning football games.

If it was the Bills making these moves or picking up Culpepper them same people would be saying what great moves we made and how good they are. It's not us so all of a sudden they are bad moves.

We're the team losing every year. You would think after a while they would come to their senses and realize we're not making very good decisions and that the teams they say are stupid must be doing something right because they're the teams winning.

[The_Philster]

even though you and certain others will completely ignore it...here goes

Tripplett-good signing...could help plug a hole at DT alongside our top draft pick
Royal-don't know much about him...I think he got more than he deserved...going into the offseason, TE wasn't a big need assuming Everett was going to be back
Davis-could be an answer in the slot..of course that's Josh Reed's spot now..so I don't get it. Reed and JP seem to have some decent QB-WR chemistry that Josh didn't develop with Bledsoe. Could Davis be a starter? :idunno: I'd still rather get Moulds to stay.
Bowen-a special teams guy, mostly...about the only thing I see him doing is possibly pushing Wire out
Wells...would fill a gaping hole at LG if we can get him

thing is...it's a week into free agency...hopefully more will be done.

[BillsFever21]

They are willing to think that paying 2+ million a year for 4 backups are good moves but if you pay 4+ million a year for 2 good starters they are bad moves and you overpaid.

If I had 8 million to spend I'd rather have that spent on difference makers and not backups. But it all falls back to homerness. They think these are good moves because it's the Bills and that the other ones are terrible moves because it isn't the Bills.

[kgun12]

It's just Phil being a company man again. These guys have never done anything in the NFL but because the Bills signed them they could be great pickups.

This happens every year and every year we suck. He'll ask us if we think we are smarter then the people running the team. Even though we never get better he still has trust in the moves every year.

All these homers would be laughing if this was the Dolphins or Jets.

Phil he's right not that being loyal isn't a good trait to have and I think he might have meant it as a back handed compliment. Nonetheless I could go back and show you many many threads where you defend the Bills, Jills, the moves they make and have asked or implied a 100 times about people there thinking they are better than the FO. Which BTW hasn't sniffed the playoffs in 6 years. Maybe some of us just might be smarter, They might as well try it our way, cause we damn sure couldn't do much worse!

[The_Philster]

Now we're all liars again. Heard that one before.maybe you should stop doing it then


If I ever own a business I want Phil to work for me. No matter how bad the business is you could make Phil believe it's going in the right direction and he will be by your side the entire way.

A company guy is somebody who always thinks the best is gonna happen and god forbid thinks it's gonna get better and you go out of your way to stand up for the company no matter how bad it keeps on getting. Sounds like some people's fandom around here.:rofl: Boy would you ever be disappointed....my company can't seem to do much right at all and I'm about as vocal about it as anyone. A promotion was up for grabs last year and my bosses asked me if I was gonna put in for it but I was like "Hell no" ...I would've had to sacrifice my integrity

[BillsFever21]

even though you and certain others will completely ignore it...here goes

Tripplett-good signing...could help plug a hole at DT alongside our top draft pick
Royal-don't know much about him...I think he got more than he deserved...going into the offseason, TE wasn't a big need assuming Everett was going to be back
Davis-could be an answer in the slot..of course that's Josh Reed's spot now..so I don't get it. Reed and JP seem to have some decent QB-WR chemistry that Josh didn't develop with Bledsoe. Could Davis be a starter? :idunno: I'd still rather get Moulds to stay.
Bowen-a special teams guy, mostly...about the only thing I see him doing is possibly pushing Wire out
Wells...would fill a gaping hole at LG if we can get him

thing is...it's a week into free agency...hopefully more will be done.

Yay. We have almost 5 million a year tied up into a slot receiver and another guy who will be battling it out for the slot receiver spot. Money well spent there.

A backup safety at about 1.5 million a year along with a backup TE for 2.5 million a year.

That close to 9 million a year wrapped up in 2 slot WR's, a ST's safety and a backup TE.

That 9 million dollars could've had us two dominant players between the OL, DT and SS.

Instead we're still looking for starters in them spots and the 9 million we spent on them guys could've been had in the draft for a total of about 4 million at the most.

Marv is really spending our money wisely this year. It all falls back to Ralph Wilson not forking out the big signing bonuses it takes to get the good players here. He's rather give tons of scrubs 2-3 million a piece instead of wrapping up 8 million a piece in good players who can make a difference.

All these signings and we have only filled 1 starting spot and that's Tripplet. The rest we're hoping to get in the draft. With all the money spent on these backups we could've had 2-3 great starters and filled our backup roles in the draft for 700k a year or less.

Had we went out and brought in another real DT and a real OL or two that would've left us tons of flexibility in the draft. Instead we still need them positions.

All these other teams with half the money were still able to go out and sign some good players and improve their team except for us.

We will finish in last place this year. We were 1 game better then the Jets last year and even they did more then us this year. We have the 3rd or 4th worst roster in our division(between us and the Jets) along with the worst HC between the 4 teams. Should be another stellar season in Buffalo.

[BillsFever21]

Nobody is lying. We're calling it like we see it. You just get embarrassed and try and cover for yourself.

[That Guy]

maybe you should stop doing it then:rofl: Boy would you ever be disappointed....my company can't seem to do much right at all and I'm about as vocal about it as anyone. A promotion was up for grabs last year and my bosses asked me if I was gonna put in for it but I was like "Hell no" ...I would've had to sacrifice my integrity
There's more integrity in having a lower position in a bad company?

[The_Philster]

Nobody is lying. We're calling it like we see it. You just get embarrassed and try and cover for yourself.
when you're accusing someone of doing something they aren't, it's called lying..I get accused of being a homer because I'm not going around crying "The Sky Is Falling" all the time...I agree that PatMoran and others shouldn't be getting attacked for the views...but they shouldn't be doing the same

[The_Philster]

There's more integrity in having a lower position in a bad company?
well, there was a recent restructure...my immediate supervisor was demoted. He was what we call a line leader...an equal position to the one I could've put in for. When he was a line leader he parroted the company line all the time it seemed. Now he calls it like it is...the way I've always done.

[BillsFever21]

when you're accusing someone of doing something they aren't, it's called lying..I get accused of being a homer because I'm not going around crying "The Sky Is Falling" all the time...I agree that PatMoran and others shouldn't be getting attacked for the views...but they shouldn't be doing the same

When many people think the same thing there's gotta be something to it.

Every year you have hope and think "The Sky Isn't Falling" but every year your hopes get crushed.

Yet these same guys rip on the Dolphins and say they suck or the getting Culpepper is a bad move but they still think we're a good team. That is clues to homerism when you think you're team has a chance and stick up for their crappy moves but mave fun of a better team who picked up some players.

[The_Philster]

When many people think the same thing there's gotta be something to it.

Every year you have hope and think "The Sky Isn't Falling" but every year your hopes get crushed.

Yet these same guys rip on the Dolphins and say they suck or the getting Culpepper is a bad move but they still think we're a good team. That is clues to homerism when you think you're team has a chance and stick up for their crappy moves but mave fun of a better team who picked up some players.
many people think the same way I do as well..that it's a long offseason that just started...too early to give up hope already. Come mid-July...vastly different story

[patmoran2006]

even though you and certain others will completely ignore it...here goes

Tripplett-good signing...could help plug a hole at DT alongside our top draft pick
Royal-don't know much about him...I think he got more than he deserved...going into the offseason, TE wasn't a big need assuming Everett was going to be back
Davis-could be an answer in the slot..of course that's Josh Reed's spot now..so I don't get it. Reed and JP seem to have some decent QB-WR chemistry that Josh didn't develop with Bledsoe. Could Davis be a starter? :idunno: I'd still rather get Moulds to stay.
Bowen-a special teams guy, mostly...about the only thing I see him doing is possibly pushing Wire out
Wells...would fill a gaping hole at LG if we can get him

thing is...it's a week into free agency...hopefully more will be done.

Those assessments actually all sound pretty accurate to me..

And Yes FA is only a week old. The problem is, I dont see anywhere up there where we have improved on a 5-11 team, which given our cap room is inexcusable..

And the other problem is outside of Neal and Runyan I see few if any other players left in FA that can sign their deal, step in and make this an improved football team.

I love the draft.. I am a draft nut.. But a draft should be the spot to RETOOL Your team, get 1-2 KEY guys who can play immediately and then some depth to make a run.. It should't be used and sold to fans (as it will be soon) as a primary method of building your football team.

10-15 years ago the draft was critical to every team's development... In today's NFL free agency is as if not even more important.

The draft is now nothing more than a 4-year audition for a rookie to come into the league and hit the open market to get filthy rich.

[YardRat]

Ahem....


New England won three SB's without over-paying for 'names'. Pittsburgh won through the draft. St Louis won through the draft and with judicious FA signings, as did Baltimore. Tampa Bay won with the same team they built through the draft, with the exception of the coach and Simeon Rice. Denver won back to back with players they drafted, not overspent for in FA.

When was the last time a team that won a Super Bowl by throwing around money on expensive, big-name FA's ?? Ever ??

[YardRat]

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2005/freeagents.html



The draft is certainly the primary tool for reloading your franchise. Young bucks, hungry to prove themselves at the next level, bring hope and promise to fans starving for success. However, the draft is far from a sure thing. Injuries, miscalculations, immaturity, and various other unknowns stand ready to sabotage even the surest of sure-things. Enter free agency. While fans may be easily seduced by the promise of an influx of untested, raw talent, the most successful teams are those that shop wisely in the free agent market. Take for example the surprising San Diego Chargers. After a dreadful season in 2003, they rebuilt the weakest parts of their team through free agency, adding linebackers Steve Foley (team-leading 10 sacks) and Randall Godfrey (84 tackles, 3 ff) while solidifying a rebuilt offensive line with OL Mike Goff. Meanwhile, teams like Oakland and Cleveland prolonged their ineptitude with terrible signings. The Raiders envisioned a brick wall defensive line with signees Warren Sapp and Ted Washington, but instead got an over-aged sieve. Meanwhile, defensive backs Ike Charlton, Denard Walker, and Ray Buchanon, as well as RB Amos Zeroue, all managed to provide little or no value in the Silver and Black. Cleveland was equally disappointed when key signees QB Jeff Garcia and LB Warrick Holdman provided neither help nor adequate leadership on a team that needed both.
In the NFC, look no further than your Super Bowl representative to see the effects of smart shopping in the off-season. The NFC Champion Philadelphia Eagles may have acquired All Pro WR Terrell Owens through trade, but the defense was led by signees DE Jevon Kearse and LB Jeremiah Trotter, who both provided All Pro performances well worth their money. Down in the A-T-L, former Raider Rod Coleman and ex-Niner CB Jason Webster became the cornerstones of an improved defense under new HC Jim Mora Jr., and provided notice that they were a complete team prepared to compete well into the future. Other excellent signings include DE Bertrand Berry in Arizona, RB Thomas Jones in Chicago, and CB Shawn Springs in Washington. Conversely, names like CB Antoine Winfield, DE Grant Wistrom, DE Marcellus Wiley stand like poison on the tips of their teams' fans' tongues, reminders of what could have been.


Am I the only one that wonders why Pittsburgh, Seattle, Denver, and Carolina aren't mentioned in the article? Or New England?

[patmoran2006]

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">New England won three SB's without over-paying for 'names'. Pittsburgh won through the draft. St Louis won through the draft and with judicious FA signings, as did Baltimore. Tampa Bay won with the same team they built through the draft, with the exception of the coach and Simeon Rice. Denver won back to back with players they drafted, not overspent for in FA.

When was the last time a team that won a Super Bowl by throwing around money on expensive, big-name FA's ?? Ever ?? </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Is that a fact? Let me let you in a on a few little secrets..

* Tampa Bay except for Rice and Gruden didn't go out and get big free agents huh? That's funny.. In the one year leading up the Super Bowl win, BESIDES RICE: they signed Brad Johnson and Keyshawn Johnson, two guys HUGE in their winning the Championship.. They also drastically improved their OL with a pair of FA signings in center Jeff Christy and tackle Lomas Brown.. Oh yeah, they signed JOe Jurevicious in 2002 as well.

* Same things with the Ravens too huh.. Interesting..

That's odd.. But I could have SWORN they went out and paid big bucks to sign Sam Adams and Shannon Sharpe the year they won the Super Bowl. (they did).. THey also added Sam Gash via FA and their Quarterback, Trent Dilfer.


Whomever authored those 100% ridiculous comments should do their homework before making those kinds of statements.

All good teams draft well.. They also add KEY ingredients through FA, cite the two recent Super Bowl teams above as evidence..

I dont think anyone in here expected the Bills to get Bentley, Runyan, Mawae, LaRoi Glover and Ryan PIckett in one year..

We expected some QUALITY free agents who would improve this team on the field immediately.... We've gotten one and how effective he'll be with a rookie DT next to him remains to be seen.

Don't cite things you deem facts when you have NO CLUE what you're talking about.

[patmoran2006]

LOL

Funny.. No counter for that huh..

Maybe I "whine", but at least I know what I'm talking about.

[BillsFever21]

Up to this year most of these guys who are defending not signing anybody and says you build your team through the draft would always say that you can't count on a draft pick because it's a crapshoot.

Now that OBD is feeding this into their heads that this team will be built through the draft all of a sudden this is the way to go.

:homer:

They all just say "It's not over and wait till next year"

When the season starts and we suck they will say "The season is still young. Wait and see how our record is at the end of the season"

Then next offseason they will repeat what was just said this offseason.

If you plan on finding all your impact players through only the draft you will never build a team. On average if you have a good draft you will find no more then 3 good players that will pan out and start for you and that is considered a lot.

Now if you have as many holes as the Bills just think of how long this process will take to fill all them holes? Then more holes will be created along the way while you are still trying to find that starting material player.

Bottomline is over the past few years when we brought in FA's like Spikes, Adams(was great when we got him), Fletcher and Milloy these same guys were loving it and said you couldn't count on the draft.

Now their long time hero Marv is the boss and we have brought in a bunch of bums so of course they will defend him and think that he knows best and all of a sudden if you sign any high priced FA's you are nuts and are overpaying. Find them guys through the draft.

Well all of them other teams who are willing to pay the price will be good and we will suck. You don't build your entire team through FA but when you don't have any great OL and when maybe only two of them would be starters on most teams in the NFL and you have a chance to land a blue chip proven starter in FA you sign him. Somebody who will step in immediately and produce.

When you have all these other glaring holes and there is a blue chipper there you try and bring in a couple of the best players at their position.

Good players win football games. Not signing a bunch of backups and hoping you score in the draft and these guys will be good 3 years from now and then bail in FA in their 4th or 5th year.

The draft is used to fill a few holes on your football team to try and make it a winner. Not just letting all the good players get away in FA and then expecting to come to the draft and find 6 good players to start on your team.

Marv sucks and even Donahoe did a better job at finding players. He didn't mess around and brought in needed players to help our team in the offseasons. Not all of them worked out but he did score with quite a few of them and left our cap still in good shape.

He got us guys like Fletcher, Spikes, Milloy(at the time was a good signing), Adams(good signing). He didn't help the OL and that was his failure.

He didn't just sit on his hands and do nothing like Marv is doing. This team is worse then it was last year. All the players we got rid of have either not been replaced or been replaced with somebody with inferior skills.

If we don't bring in a couple of the good OL left in FA then this will be a total waste. Re-signing some backups like Reed and Haggan and bringing in more backups like Royal, Bowen and Davis won't win us any games.

If the Dolphins had our roster and this was their offseason you homers would be laughing their ass off. But it's the Bills so you can believe this is one big master plan by Marv Levy and everything will be just fine. We get ready to be disapointed once again.

[patmoran2006]

BillsFever..

Great post however.. this now officially makes you a whiner, a Bills hater, a spammer and a neg-repper.. Because your not buying into the CAP that this organization is trying to sell you.. Oh yeah one more thing, "it's also just a week into free agency"..

Also, on another thread I just had ICe take the stance of a good free agent and list out his reasons for why he won't come to Buffalo.. Economics, Cost of living, Environment, Family, etc.. That means Marv is a great salesmen huh..

If what Ice is saying is true (and I can only shake my head) then why is this team even in Buffalo anymore?

[BillsFever21]

BillsFever..

Great post however.. this now officially makes you a whiner, a Bills hater, a spammer and a neg-repper.. Because your not buying into the CAP that this organization is trying to sell you.. Oh yeah one more thing, "it's also just a week into free agency"..

Also, on another thread I just had ICe take the stance of a good free agent and list out his reasons for why he won't come to Buffalo.. Economics, Cost of living, Environment, Family, etc.. That means Marv is a great salesmen huh..

If what Ice is saying is true (and I can only shake my head) then why is this team even in Buffalo anymore?

I've been fighting with the homers here for 3 years now. You're not telling me anything I don't already know.

Every year these guys say we're gonna win all these games and be in the playoffs. Some of them were even talking SB a couple years ago.

Some thought we had one of the best rosters in the NFL but at the same time were saying Donahoe can't find any good players.

We had some good players but our time passed us by. We wasted it on low life coaches because Ralph Wilson would continue to go on the cheap instead of paying for a good coach.

I'd have a dose of reality and predict another pitiful season and be almost right on with the wins but they don't wanna hear it afterwards and then we move on to the next offseason where the same routine comes around again. In midseason I would hear "There are still 7 games to go it's not over yet. We can still win them all"

I sure the hell wish I wasn't right all the time about how the Bills will perform but that's the difference between realism and homerism.

You would think these guys would be tired of being wrong and getting their hopes crashed every year. Just wait till the one season they are actually right about in the last 7 years though. They will think they are on top of the world and say they told me/us so and we're just a negative POS that doesn't know what they're talking about. Unfortunately for me and the Bills that hasn't happened though. I would love for that to happen because that would actually mean we were a good team.

[Mr. Pink]

BillsFever you nailed the nail on the head with that post.

And as like Pat said you're gonna be negged and bashed and a whiner etc etc etc etc.

All because they've been brainwashed to believe the brass behind this organization has a plan, what that plan is exactly at this time I have no idea. I opened that discussion up in another thread earlier. God forbid some of us aren't mindless sheep who just BAAAA over ever bad move that has been made this offseason so far.

Marv, while being a good head coach has shown absolutely NOTHING as to knowing what it means and/or takes to be a GM. Chalk that up partially to this being his first year as being a GM however he's not getting any younger and we all get to sit here through a few more years of watching someone learn while they are on the job.

Instead of this organization going out and getting someone with GM experience, Ron Wolfe perhaps, Ralph goes out and makes another personnel blunder in having the good ole boy ideology and brings in Marv. You can make the case that this might be an even worse mistake than bringing in Donahoe. At least Donahoe had experience.

In closing, I'm sure I'm gonna get negged, bashed, discredited, whatever because my viewpoint on this issue aren't consistent with the homer like thoughts of the local fans. And you know what, I don't care.

Maybe you have enjoyed seeing a crap product for years now, I sure as hell have not. And with what Marv has shown me so far it's not getting any better and nor will it anytime soon.

I have utmost respect for Marv as a coach but as far as his GM abilities have shown he would have been a better perfect as GM in Arizona prior to this season. Speaking of how the hell does Arizona lure in players like Edge when we can't even lure in ANY DAMN LINEMAN?

Wait, maybe people in the NFL who matter and not just me laugh at this good ole boy formula we now have in place at OBD. So people see the situation and want no part of it? And you people wonder why Mularkey resigned? I have no delusions why he resigned, he saw the JOKE our front office is and was the first man to jump off the Titanic.

[BillsFever21]

The Mularkey era passed us by. I would say how terrible he was but would hear back "It's his rookie season he will make mistakes"

The first half of the 2nd season would come and you would hear "The season isn't over yet. He's a good coach and will turn it around. Look how many games we won in a row the year before"

Now the same stuff will be going on with Levy and Jauron which is a couple more useless and wasted hirings. That should buy some of these guys a few more years of being content.

Hell even though Jauron is a proven loser as a HC there are some homers who thinks he will be good just because Marv hired him. Them 4 years losing seasons in Chicago wasn't his fault.

[BillsFever21]

BillsFever you nailed the nail on the head with that post.

And as like Pat said you're gonna be negged and bashed and a whiner etc etc etc etc.

All because they've been brainwashed to believe the brass behind this organization has a plan, what that plan is exactly at this time I have no idea. I opened that discussion up in another thread earlier. God forbid some of us aren't mindless sheep who just BAAAA over ever bad move that has been made this offseason so far.

Marv, while being a good head coach has shown absolutely NOTHING as to knowing what it means and/or takes to be a GM. Chalk that up partially to this being his first year as being a GM however he's not getting any younger and we all get to sit here through a few more years of watching someone learn while they are on the job.

Instead of this organization going out and getting someone with GM experience, Ron Wolfe perhaps, Ralph goes out and makes another personnel blunder in having the good ole boy ideology and brings in Marv. You can make the case that this might be an even worse mistake than bringing in Donahoe. At least Donahoe had experience.

In closing, I'm sure I'm gonna get negged, bashed, discredited, whatever because my viewpoint on this issue aren't consistent with the homer like thoughts of the local fans. And you know what, I don't care.

Maybe you have enjoyed seeing a crap product for years now, I sure as hell have not. And with what Marv has shown me so far it's not getting any better and nor will it anytime soon.

I have utmost respect for Marv as a coach but as far as his GM abilities have shown he would have been a better perfect as GM in Arizona prior to this season. Speaking of how the hell does Arizona lure in players like Edge when we can't even lure in ANY DAMN LINEMAN?

Wait, maybe people in the NFL who matter and not just me laugh at this good ole boy formula we now have in place at OBD. So people see the situation and want no part of it? And you people wonder why Mularkey resigned? I have no delusions why he resigned, he saw the JOKE our front office is and was the first man to jump off the Titanic.

Right on. :up:

These players can see that with these two old geezers in charge this already losing team for years straight won't be getting any better.

The fact that they WANTED to keep Mularkey says everything about where this franchise is going. And to top it off the fact that Mularkey gave up a HC job to get away from this mess is even worse.

Ralph knew bringing in somebody like Levy would buy him at least 3 more seasons of hope from fans like this. They love Marv and will believe any crap they throw at us over the next few years. Plus will blame it on having to fix Donahe's mess.

The bad thing is we actually did have some good players while Donahoe was here. We just didn't have a coach to put it all together. OBD would fool the fans into thinking that this would be the year when this HC could actually lead us on a run and a miracle season.

If they fell for it during the Donahoe and Mularkey/Williams era they will definitely fall for it with Marv in charge. Ralph knows this and that's why we have Levy today.

The bad thing is the players around the league are smart enough not to fall for it. They were able to con some good ones over the last 5 years into believing it but it won't happen again. Especially not with an 81 year old rookie GM in charge.

They can see Jauron isn't any good and would rather play for a real coach and don't even know if these old farts in charge will even be alive by the time their contract runs out let alone being able to field a winning team. We are the joke of the NFL right now amongst the people where it really matters(players, coaches, ect.)

Go ahead and drink the OBD kool-aid again this season though. This team is even worse then it was last year and we have another cheap pathetic coach that Ralph and Marv had success in making the blind follow and believe can right this ship.

It will be at least 3 more bad seasons before these guys MIGHT wake up and realize this team still won't be going anywhere.

[BlackMetalNinja]

I finally figured out how Philster developed this theory he is accusing us all of...

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000DWMYQ8.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

He's just overly excited for the release of another spectacular Disney DVD this coming Tuesday (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000DWMYQ8/ref=ase_comingsoon/103-5817150-0494235?s=dvd&v=glance&n=130&tagActionCode=comingsoon)!!!

[The_Philster]

:lmao:

[YardRat]

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">New England won three SB's without over-paying for 'names'. Pittsburgh won through the draft. St Louis won through the draft and with judicious FA signings, as did Baltimore. Tampa Bay won with the same team they built through the draft, with the exception of the coach and Simeon Rice. Denver won back to back with players they drafted, not overspent for in FA.

When was the last time a team that won a Super Bowl by throwing around money on expensive, big-name FA's ?? Ever ??
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Is that a fact? Let me let you in a on a few little secrets..

* Tampa Bay except for Rice and Gruden didn't go out and get big free agents huh? That's funny.. In the one year leading up the Super Bowl win, BESIDES RICE: they signed Brad Johnson and Keyshawn Johnson, two guys HUGE in their winning the Championship.. They also drastically improved their OL with a pair of FA signings in center Jeff Christy and tackle Lomas Brown.. Oh yeah, they signed JOe Jurevicious in 2002 as well.

* Same things with the Ravens too huh.. Interesting..

That's odd.. But I could have SWORN they went out and paid big bucks to sign Sam Adams and Shannon Sharpe the year they won the Super Bowl. (they did).. THey also added Sam Gash via FA and their Quarterback, Trent Dilfer.


Whomever authored those 100% ridiculous comments should do their homework before making those kinds of statements.

All good teams draft well.. They also add KEY ingredients through FA, cite the two recent Super Bowl teams above as evidence..

I dont think anyone in here expected the Bills to get Bentley, Runyan, Mawae, LaRoi Glover and Ryan PIckett in one year..

We expected some QUALITY free agents who would improve this team on the field immediately.... We've gotten one and how effective he'll be with a rookie DT next to him remains to be seen.

Don't cite things you deem facts when you have NO CLUE what you're talking about.

Brad Johnson, Brown, and Jurevicious came cheap to Tampa. Keyshawn was a trade, not a FA signing. I'll give you Christy.

I'll also give you Sharpe and Adams for Baltimore. Gash and Dilfer came cheap to the Ravens, also.

Two teams...three players...big deal. Re-read my post, Pat...judicious free agent signings.

I've addressed Baltimore and Tampa for you...are you going to reciprocate and address New England, Pittsburgh, Seattle, Denver, and the rest?

[Mr. Pink]

Brad Johnson, Brown, and Jurevicious came cheap to Tampa. Keyshawn was a trade, not a FA signing. I'll give you Christy.

I'll also give you Sharpe and Adams for Baltimore. Gash and Dilfer came cheap to the Ravens, also.

Two teams...three players...big deal. Re-read my post, Pat...judicious free agent signings.

I've addressed Baltimore and Tampa for you...are you going to reciprocate and address New England, Pittsburgh, Seattle, Denver, and the rest?

I'll reciprocate and address the rest if you don't mind :)

New England-Corey Dillion acquired from Cincy via trade. Rodney Harrison was acquired via Free Agency and if you want to know why their teams' defense was in disarray against the pass last year, look no further than Harrison. Last Season they brought Duane Starks in via free agency to play corner. Punter Josh Miller, free agent from Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh-Bettis came to this team a while back from the Rams. Duce Staley who was pretty much a nonfactor due to injury was a free agent from the Eagles. Chris Gardocki their punter came from Cleveland, and we all in Buffalo know how important good special teams are. Backup QB Charlie Batch was brought in how? Free agency. Maddox also free agency. Both of these QBs had to play in 05 due to injury to franchise stud Roethlisberger. Starting center Jeff Hartings? Free agent in 2001 from the Lions. Corner Willie Williams? you guessed it free agent.

Seattle-Joe Jurevicius was signed as a free agent, and was the top Seahawk WR last year. Grant Wistrom? Free agent from the Rams. Andre Dyson? Free agent from the Titans. Matt Hasselbeck brought in via trade years ago.

Denver-Champ Bailey acquired via trade for Portis. Plummer? free agent from AZ. Hell their whole defense line came from Cleveland besides Pryce. John Lynch? free agent from TB.

Is this enough insight on how Playoff caliber and championship caliber teams build through Free Agency? Point is teams build through free agency just as much as through the draft if not more, seeing you know what you're getting in players that have already been in the league. Not the crapshoot known as the NFL draft.

[Bill Brasky]

I finally figured out how Philster developed this theory he is accusing us all of...

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000DWMYQ8.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

He's just overly excited for the release of another spectacular Disney DVD this coming Tuesday (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000DWMYQ8/ref=ase_comingsoon/103-5817150-0494235?s=dvd&v=glance&n=130&tagActionCode=comingsoon)!!!

:roflmao:

[kgun12]

BillsFever you nailed the nail on the head with that post.

And as like Pat said you're gonna be negged and bashed and a whiner etc etc etc etc.

All because they've been brainwashed to believe the brass behind this organization has a plan, what that plan is exactly at this time I have no idea. I opened that discussion up in another thread earlier. God forbid some of us aren't mindless sheep who just BAAAA over ever bad move that has been made this offseason so far.

Marv, while being a good head coach has shown absolutely NOTHING as to knowing what it means and/or takes to be a GM. Chalk that up partially to this being his first year as being a GM however he's not getting any younger and we all get to sit here through a few more years of watching someone learn while they are on the job.

Instead of this organization going out and getting someone with GM experience, Ron Wolfe perhaps, Ralph goes out and makes another personnel blunder in having the good ole boy ideology and brings in Marv. You can make the case that this might be an even worse mistake than bringing in Donahoe. At least Donahoe had experience.

In closing, I'm sure I'm gonna get negged, bashed, discredited, whatever because my viewpoint on this issue aren't consistent with the homer like thoughts of the local fans. And you know what, I don't care.

Maybe you have enjoyed seeing a crap product for years now, I sure as hell have not. And with what Marv has shown me so far it's not getting any better and nor will it anytime soon.

I have utmost respect for Marv as a coach but as far as his GM abilities have shown he would have been a better perfect as GM in Arizona prior to this season. Speaking of how the hell does Arizona lure in players like Edge when we can't even lure in ANY DAMN LINEMAN?

Wait, maybe people in the NFL who matter and not just me laugh at this good ole boy formula we now have in place at OBD. So people see the situation and want no part of it? And you people wonder why Mularkey resigned? I have no delusions why he resigned, he saw the JOKE our front office is and was the first man to jump off the Titanic.

Your right on here! No NFL guy is going come in as GM knowing that Ralph WILL NOT shell out big bonus money to lure in QUALITY FA's. This is why we settle every year for the 3rd and 4th tier guys. Unfortunately a lot of fans are willing to except this, cause we are a small market team and that is true. I think OBD and these fans will get a wakeup call our first home game and all the rest that don't sellout. Well maybe the 1st game might sellout cause we all miss football. Once fans see the rewards (?) of our wonderful backup signing this off season, sellouts will be hard to come by. Last yea all games were sold out cause too many people bought into the crap coming out of OBD about the players signed. Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me, stupid us shame on me cause we have believed there crap for 6 years. Time to show we won't be fooled again!

[Dr. Lecter]

Saying Ralph wil lnot pay big bonus's is ignoring history and facts.

(Spikes, Adams, Moulds (when re-signed))

[kgun12]

Saying Ralph wil lnot pay big bonus's is ignoring history and facts.

(Spikes, Adams, Moulds (when re-signed))

OK I guess I didn't say what I was thinking, Ralph and Orfordof not give more up front money to do like Cleveland did, in making Bentley's cap hit for the first 3 years only 2.6 million. Sorry hope that clears up what I meant?

[Dr. Lecter]

Those are two different theories on spending. Bentley's contract after three years will be terminated or restructured. Deals like Fletcher and Spikes carry similar cap hits from year to year.