The new story out of OBD

[BillsFever21]

This years jive coming out of OBD that all these previous backup players we are signing are young, devolped and are up and coming stars that only need an opportunity to show their stuff.

31 other teams don't believe this but Marv Levy is so much brighter and better then all the other GM's he can see the future potential in these players that the other GM's don't see.

They need a new excuse and this is the story they are sticking with. With the love and trust that most of our fans have in Marv this should buy a couple more seasons of losing before the next flavor of Kool Aid hits the market.

They are signing so many of them at least one or two of them are bound to be a good contributor. We only have about 7 holes to fill though. We should be a winning team in no time.

[Bill Brasky]

They need a new excuse and this is the story they are sticking with. With the love and trust that most of our fans have in Marv this should buy a couple more seasons of losing before the next flavor of Kool Aid hits the market.

:roflmao:

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I actually liked this approach better than Donahoe's.

Of course the Steelers, in my memory, never brought one single sexy FA to their team in the last 10 years before winning the big one this year. I bet you would complain to no end during those non winning years.

To me, drafting is always the way to go. If you draft well, you will be busy signing your own players like the Steelers do every year. The next best thing is to sign players with their best years still to come which is obviously Levy and Co. are doing.

There will be hits, and there will be misses. But I like the Rooney's famous quote: It's better to let go a player a year early than having to release anyone. The players we signed all having a chance to finish the contract they signed, something you know won't happen when Moulds, Adams, Milloy, Spikes, Vincent were signed.

[justasportsfan]

Why do you think Marv hired "TEACHERS" of the game ? Because he was recruiting students. :ill:

[BillsFever21]

I actually liked this approach better than Donahoe's.

Of course the Steelers, in my memory, never brought one single sexy FA to their team in the last 10 years before winning the big one this year. I bet you would complain to no end during those non winning years.

To me, drafting is always the way to go. If you draft well, you will be busy signing your own players like the Steelers do every year. The next best thing is to sign players with their best years still to come which is obviously Levy and Co. are doing.

There will be hits, and there will be misses. But I like the Rooney's famous quote: It's better to let go a player a year early than having to release anyone. The players we signed all having a chance to finish the contract they signed, something you know won't happen when Moulds, Adams, Milloy, Spikes, Vincent were signed.

Oh I agree that signing players with their best years still to come is the way to go. That's when you sign young GOOD and PROVEN players. Not just a bunch of YOUNG SCRUBS and try to pass them off as up and coming players with their best years still to come.

Sure they are young and their best years are in front of them that's obvious. But when they haven't had any good years to date how well are their best years to come gonna be?

That's like somebody signing guys like Mike Pucillio, Bennie Anderson and other young players. Of course their best years are still to come but they most likely won't be very good years. All guys who have never done anything good and are young. I doubt their best years are gonna be very good in the first place.

[BillsFever21]

Why do you think Marv hired "TEACHERS" of the game ? Because he was recruiting students. :ill:

I wonder if they are like Gregg Williams' "teachers" he brought in?

[Jeff1220]

When Marv was hired as GM, he mentioned following the philosophy of teams like New England. I guess this is where he's coming from...before NE's first Super Bowl, they signed a bunch of nonames in FA - guys that would play disciplined football, and fit in and buy into the the system. I don't know if he's doing it right (none of us will until a year from now), but that appears to be what he is trying to do.

[BillsFever21]

I actually liked this approach better than Donahoe's.

Of course the Steelers, in my memory, never brought one single sexy FA to their team in the last 10 years before winning the big one this year. I bet you would complain to no end during those non winning years.

To me, drafting is always the way to go. If you draft well, you will be busy signing your own players like the Steelers do every year. The next best thing is to sign players with their best years still to come which is obviously Levy and Co. are doing.

There will be hits, and there will be misses. But I like the Rooney's famous quote: It's better to let go a player a year early than having to release anyone. The players we signed all having a chance to finish the contract they signed, something you know won't happen when Moulds, Adams, Milloy, Spikes, Vincent were signed.

Of course them players can play their contracts out because they are young. If they're not any good then whal the hell good is it?

Of course when you sign a 28 year old player to a 6 year contract he most likely won't play throughout that contract. At least you get 4 good years or so out of them in their prime.

Sure signing great players that are 25 years old to 5 year contracts are the way to go. The key word being GOOD. Signing young nobodies that are a dime a dozen doesn't do a damn thing for your team though.

[patmoran2006]

I actually liked this approach better than Donahoe's.

Of course the Steelers, in my memory, never brought one single sexy FA to their team in the last 10 years before winning the big one this year. I bet you would complain to no end during those non winning years.

To me, drafting is always the way to go. If you draft well, you will be busy signing your own players like the Steelers do every year. The next best thing is to sign players with their best years still to come which is obviously Levy and Co. are doing.

There will be hits, and there will be misses. But I like the Rooney's famous quote: It's better to let go a player a year early than having to release anyone. The players we signed all having a chance to finish the contract they signed, something you know won't happen when Moulds, Adams, Milloy, Spikes, Vincent were signed.

HOw was Betis acquired?

For the most part you are right. HOwever, Pittsburgh has one of the very best coaches in the NFL in Bill Cowher.

Listen, Not to play Devil's advocate, but it takes YEARS to build the type of club that Pittsburgh has now. Marv Levy is indeed 80-years old, how LONG do you expect him to competently be the GM?

I LOVE the way Pittsburgh is run. But if we were going the Pittsburgh route a MUCH YOUNGER GM should have been brought in, someone who's a PROVEN evaluator of talent..

ANd we should also have had a different head coach; IF this is going to be our approach. We should gotten a guy like Kubiak, Bates or the Jets new coach Mangini (I know the spelling is wrong).

Don't give me the "we already had two young head coaches" crap.. greg williams would probably STILL be the head coach had Donahoe ever addressed the offensive line properly. The year the Bills went 3-13 under Wiliams, they still played everygame hard like they're life depended on it.

JOe Gibbs thinks enough of Wiliams he wasn't going to let him get away.

If you dont agree about Williams, I think we can all agree if Donahoe had any kind of patience he would have gotten Charlie Weiss. WEiss said he would have taken the job.

But that's all over and done with. MY point?
Building a team like Pittsburgh is a LONG TERM project. Being that, a 80-year old GM and recycled coach arent the tools to do it with.

When Levy and Jauron came on board, given our solid salary cap standing, I expected us to go out and field the type of team that was going to try and win now..

I was wrong.

[justasportsfan]

I LOVE the way Pittsburgh is run. But if we were going the Pittsburgh route a MUCH YOUNGER GM should have been brought in, someone who's a PROVEN evaluator of talent..

.
I think Marv will try to pattern his being a GM the way Poilan does it. Not Pitts.
When Levy and Jauron came on board, given our solid salary cap standing, I expected us to go out and field the type of team that was going to try and win now..

I was wrong.
Based on the moves so far, I think Marv thinks like BB, the coaches make the players and not the other way around.

TD was all for signing big named players because he hired rookie coaches.


Marv must have all the confidence in his coaches by hiring players who are "on the rise" so to speak and let the coaches put the pieces together. That's how the Pats built their dynasty. Through coaching , the draft and not hiring big named players.

Why do you think BB got rid of Milloy, Drew and went with young players who's names we never heard of before?

[patmoran2006]

Just..
I agree with you on that.. Either is a good way to try and be like, just worried Marv is a little old to do it over the long haul.

Polian's route is not easy to do.. That guy is a god-damn draft guru.

[BillsFever21]

When Marv was hired as GM, he mentioned following the philosophy of teams like New England. I guess this is where he's coming from...before NE's first Super Bowl, they signed a bunch of nonames in FA - guys that would play disciplined football, and fit in and buy into the the system. I don't know if he's doing it right (none of us will until a year from now), but that appears to be what he is trying to do.

That's what everyone was saying about Donahoe too that he was following the Patriots and Steelers way of winning. He wasn't signing a ton of high priced players and putting all of his eggs into one basket. Was gonna draft well and keep your own players like the Patriots.

We signed some high priced players but didn't go overboard which would put us in cap hell if it didn't work out. We would have cap flexibility which we did.

The difference between the Patriots and the Bills is them guys were very talented football players. Whether these ones will be is yet to be seen.

The biggest difference though is the Patriots had Belicheck, Weiss, Crennel and other top notch coaches to groom these guys into players. We have Jauron and a bunch of other cheap alternatives to follow out this plan though.

Sorry but our coaches don't compare to them. Most other staffs in the NFL could've never got what these guys did out of that roster or made these guys good NFL players.

The Patriots had the coaching tools to acheive this and most of the other staffs wouldn't be able to. For some odd reason I don't think Dick Jauron is Bill Belicheck.

Does anyone really believe that just about any other coach would've taken that Patriots team to 3 out of 4 SB victories? The coaches were the key that started that engine. We don't have the coaches to pull off something like that.

They hit the jackpot with insanely great coaches and got lucky on some of their signings. No other teams has been able to dublicate that plan though because they don't have somebody like Belicheck carrying it out.

If this was the plan to go by the Bengals and Cardinals wouldn't have sucked for about 15 years. They all had systems and brought in cheap no name players like we are. I think we're more like them then the Patriots.

This is the flavor of Kool Aid OBD is putting out this offseason and you must be one of the kinds of people to accept that flavor and believe it.

All these signings are reincarnations of the team and ways that the Patriots built their dynasty. There are enough people to accept the flavor to fill the seats for another year or two.

The Patriots are the only team in the last decade to build a team like this. I don't think we're gonna get as lucky with the players we're bringing in or have the coaching staff to groom these players and pull off something like that. Fortunately OBD is depending on enough people to fall for this though. They have a good enough following to pull this off for a couple years.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Oh I agree that signing players with their best years still to come is the way to go. That's when you sign young GOOD and PROVEN players. Not just a bunch of YOUNG SCRUBS and try to pass them off as up and coming players with their best years still to come.

Sure they are young and their best years are in front of them that's obvious. But when they haven't had any good years to date how well are their best years to come gonna be?

That's like somebody signing guys like Mike Pucillio, Bennie Anderson and other young players. Of course their best years are still to come but they most likely won't be very good years. All guys who have never done anything good and are young. I doubt their best years are gonna be very good in the first place.

So it boils down to the judgement of the young players they signed. You said they are not any good whereas the team Levy assembled believed that they have a chance to excel - that's why they signed them.

Like a President, a CEO, a GM, you set the guide line, the approach, the direction of the entity you are in charge. That's where I see a big difference between Levy from the previous regime and I applaud. In terms of the detailed execution, it's up to Jauron and his staff of individual position coaches. And it seems you may have problem with these coaches.

Can you guarantee your judgement is 100% spot on? No one can, even for Belichick. We just have to wait before we pass judgement, don't we?

[BillsFever21]

So it boils down to the judgement of the young players they signed. You said they are not any good whereas the team Levy assembled believed that they have a chance to excel - that's why they signed them.

Like a President, a CEO, a GM, you set the guide line, the approach, the direction of the entity you are in charge. That's where I see a big difference between Levy from the previous regime and I applaud. In terms of the detailed execution, it's up to Jauron and his staff of individual position coaches. And it seems you may have problem with these coaches.

Can you guarantee your judgement is 100% spot on? No one can, even for Belichick. We just have to wait before we pass judgement, don't we?

Jauron had 4 out of 5 losing seasons in Chicago. Seems to be enough proof right there he isn't Bill Belicheck and could groom a bunch of no name players into SB winners.

That's what OBD wants us to believe this year though. That is their new story. Good thing there are people gullable enough to believe this though or we won't be filling many seats this year.

[jmb1099]

Bill Belechick was by all accounts a broken down recycled coach. What does this prove for us? Nothing. But Billy didn't do well his first time around. Like has already been stated, we will just need to wait and see.

[justasportsfan]

Just..
I agree with you on that.. Either is a good way to try and be like, just worried Marv is a little old to do it over the long haul.

Polian's route is not easy to do.. That guy is a god-damn draft guru. Marv's success is based on whether he made the right choice going for Dick Jauron. Players supposedly love the guy. That's really important if players are to buy into what you are trying to achieve. Something that Moolarkey failed miserably at. Whether he knows his X's and O's remains to be seen.

When Marv took over the bills, weren't we the bickering bills? The players bought into what he was trying to achieve and the rest is history.

Same can be said about BB. The players bought into what he said regardless of what FANS said about releasing Drew and Milloy.

I don't thnk the recipe for success has changed over the years. Marv may be old but he knows what it took to be a winner. He isn't trying to be a know it all GM like TD was which is why he's designated other people to take care of the cap ,coashing and scouting for the draft/FA in Modrak.

If he tried to do it all. I agree, he's too old.

[Jeff1220]

I'm not saying the philosophy they are taking is going to work, but I'm not saying it won't either. The severe negativity is just as much a gulp of kool-ade as blind faith is for the homers.
I bet a lot of New England fans are glad they got their shots of Kool-ade when Kraft brought in a defensive assistant who's only HC experience was mostly in the L column with the Browns.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Donahoe's motto is talent and talent, especially past talent. He has no clear vision. That's why you see him trade away draft pickes - even 1st and 2nd round, either for guys clearly past their peak like Bledsoe, or trying to hit a jackpot like Losman, Denny.

No one, even the best talent evaluators can predict anyone panning out. But a consistent approach, acquiring draft picks, signing young players, getting guys with high characters gives you the best chance to holding onto talents in their peak. I hope Marv follows that path.

[GarnOFreak]

Being that we're switching schemes on offense and defense, you would think they would overhaul the rosters with players who fit the schemes better. (i.e. for the 46 defense we needed a hard-hitting SS and jumped on Milloy). The WRs we have are basically small speedy guys(even Josh Reed is a 4.45 guy and he's the slowest).
We've heard that they want to play a fast-paced defense and thats why Adams and Milloy were cut. Triplett is a fast(er) DT and hopefully we'll resemble Tampa with our D sooner than later.
I don't see us resembling the Rams on offense just from a player perspective. But, the KC offense was based on the same system and it works good for them. So, we may not be looking at the Greatest Show on Snow, but I think that the offense will improve just from better play calling with the people we had last year.
It does seem that the signings so far have been small compared to what we were hoping for(no blue chippers with multi-zillion dollar deals). But what it does seem is happening is that Marv is being careful to court people who are not locker room cancers and people who are role players in similar systems to what we want to install. Making it easier for them to adjust to a new team playbook. I'm not saying that getting a uber-talented player wouldn't help, but he's trying to build for the long run, not the one year wonder. And if he's serious about it, he's going to have to grab stars as well as role-players. There will be people cut after June 1st (I really think we hold on to Moulds till then, be it trade or release) and maybe that's where we land a stud. I like that he's not overextending the way the Redskins and Raiders do, it's just frustrating when we see stars signing with other teams. It's hard to be patient, but being year One, we should cut Marv some slack until we see how it shapes up.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I agree Garn. You mentioned the other part that's on my mind but I always forget to say it: they brought guys familiar or suitable for the schemes they are to run, guys knows their roles. The Pats, the Steelers have plenty of these guys. In fact I can go as far as saying that that's the reason you don't see a big dropoff from those teams year to year because of the steadiness of these role players.

Now to go a step further you need star players and that will come from the draft. No one will trade you a Brady or Roethlisberger; Seymour and Polamalu are never gonna be an UFA. You have to find these players the hard way - sometimes luck, too.

[patmoran2006]

I think Marv will try to pattern his being a GM the way Poilan does it. Not Pitts.
Based on the moves so far, I think Marv thinks like BB, the coaches make the players and not the other way around.

TD was all for signing big named players because he hired rookie coaches.


Marv must have all the confidence in his coaches by hiring players who are "on the rise" so to speak and let the coaches put the pieces together. That's how the Pats built their dynasty. Through coaching , the draft and not hiring big named players.

Why do you think BB got rid of Milloy, Drew and went with young players who's names we never heard of before?

Just.

Great post.. However, I dont see one single solitary thing that BB and Dick Jaruon have in common. If one of BB's "disciples" Weiss, Crennel or even Mangini (spelling?) was coaching this team, I'd be on board with this 1000%.. They have all BEEN on board with BB and know EXACTLY the route to take .

I think the head coach in football is more important than the head coach of any sports team.

While I am sure that Marv likes Jauron and might have considered him regardless, its of my VERY strong opinion that if money meant NOTHING in choosing his head coach, it would have been someone different.

Someone exactly with the type of system background you talked about.. Bates.

Who was under Parcels, who taught BB the system he excels in today.

[justasportsfan]

Just.

Great post.. However, I dont see one single solitary thing that BB and Dick Jaruon have in common. If one of BB's "disciples" Weiss, Crennel or even Mangini (spelling?) was coaching this team, I'd be on board with this 1000%.. They have all BEEN on board with BB and know EXACTLY the route to take .

I think the head coach in football is more important than the head coach of any sports team.

While I am sure that Marv likes Jauron and might have considered him regardless, its of my VERY strong opinion that if money meant NOTHING in choosing his head coach, it would have been someone different.

Someone exactly with the type of system background you talked about.. Bates.

Who was under Parcels, who taught BB the system he excels in today.

Like I said, I don't know if Jauron knows his X's and O's but based on what is said about him , he's straight up and players respect him. That's what I see when I look at BB.

Marv talks about Dick being like that with a touch of Vermiel when it comes to getting personal with his players.

I always loved the attitude of the Pats players after ever win. So what? Let's worry about the next game. Let's not listen to the hype of the fans and media when we're winning. It's all business until they win the sb. Moolarkey was feeding the team cheeseburgers. Never liked the nice guy attitude. Nice guys finish last for the most part.


We'll have to wait and see PAt. Part of being a fan is not knowing what's gonna happen next. The mystery of winning and losing . If there's one thing I'm sure of, it's not gonna get any worse than having TD .

In Marv I trust...... for now. He did create coaches like Wade and Cotrell.

[BillsFever21]

Oh my god people are getting delusional now. I hope I never have to hear Belicheck being compared to Jauron ever again. This is just sad.

And what evidence are there that these players are on the rise? Not any of them have ever achieved any success except for a decent season last year by Tripplet.

Someone like Bowen is on his 4th team going into his 7th season and didn't cut it with any of the other three. He has never achieved any success but he is "on the rise"

Robert Royal is nothing more but a blocker and got 2 million a season but he is "one the rise" Justin Hartwig signed for a little over 3 million a season with Carolina.

A good Center that will make a difference and will only cost Carolina a million more a season. That's the type of young player who is "on the rise"

Josh Reed has been blasted for 4 season but all of a sudden he is "on the rise" by the same people. He will be decent but far from good.

Andre' Davis has some big play ability but has only played 16 games the last 2 season due to injury. Will be a 3rd WR at best and there are plenty of players like him. He is "on the rise"

The only player who may be "on the rise" is Tripplet and even he was replaced as a starter in Indi. He isn't anymore "on the rise" then Ron Edwards was after the 2004 season when he had 4 sacks. We saw how that turned out.

These are cheap dime a dozen players signed because Ralph won't open his checkbook for anything better.

Guys like Bowens and Royal isn't anymore of being on the rise then Justin Bannan is. I wonder if he is considered being "on the rise" by his new team.

If most of these guys like Bowens and Royal is our starters next season we are in deep trouble. Anybody who is excited about these signings need to seek help immediately.

If these guys were signed by Miami or the Jets nobody would be thinking they are one the rise. They are in Buffalo and Wilson and Levy want you to believe they are. Some are gullable enough to fall for this crap year after year.

[YardRat]

HOw was Betis acquired?



Via a draft day TRADE, not free agency. Kinda like Keyshawn and Tampa.