STUDY: Bills, Sabres face economic hurdles

[Bill Brasky]

Western New York doesn't have enough money to support its two big-league sports franchises comfortably, according to a new study by Business First's parent company.

The income base in the Buffalo area is $27.3 billion smaller than the ideal amount for the Bills and Sabres, says the report from Bizjournals.com (http://bizjournals.com/), the Internet subsidiary of American City Business Journals.

That doesn't mean that either team will be forced to leave Western New York in the near future. But it's a fairly reliable sign that both franchises can expect continued volatility in attendance and revenues.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11805422/

Interesting article.

[Bill Brasky]

Even more interesting, Buffalo doesn't even rank 1st in the study, they are 9th. Tampa Bay, according to this study, is the most overextended market...

The best place to expand and start a franchise is Los Angeles, of course.

Suprisingly, Rochester is the 7th best city to start a sports franchise.

I was also able to find this tidbit from another article, written in 2000, with regards to MLB expansion:

Buffalo, which contended for a National League expansion franchise in the early 1990s, ranked 272nd in financial capacity, meaning that 271 metropolitan areas were considered better able to support a new baseball team. The newsletter said that the local economic base is just large enough for the Bills and Sabres.

Funny, how in six years, the market went from being comfortable for the Bills and Sabres, and now it's suffering.

However, in regards to NBA expansion, this article:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/mike_mcallister/05/23/expansion.cities/index.html
seems to hint that though Buffalo cannot support a major league baseball team, it might still be able to support a NBA team:

Other cities worth considering: Louisville, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, St. Louis, Kansas City, Baltimore, Buffalo.

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

Bunch of Crock Golisano has plenty of Money to keep the SABRES here and I repeat this again Erie County will find a way to keep the BILLS in WNY! There's no way we'll get a pro basketball team here again we had the BRAVES and they weren't good let's just say that they STUNK the only guy that was good on the team was 2 for McAdoo that's why they moved to LA and became the Clippers. besides we have a basketball team here maybe you've heard of them they're called the Rapids and they can't even find a home they have to play in a HS gym how pathetic :laughing:

[Mitchy moo]

Well why don't they just raise taxes again. 10% sure is easier to figure out.

[OpIv37]

it's not how much money people have- it's how much they SPEND. When the teams play well, WNY spends every spare cent it has on them, especially the Bills.

Also, was Monroe County (Rochester) considered as part of the Buffalo area in the first article? What about Southern Ontario (Canada)? They support the Buffalo sports franchises as well (well, maybe not the Sabres so much because of the Leafs, but definitely the Bills).

I think this article focused too much on the business definition of the "Buffalo area" and didn't take into account where the money really comes from.

[Bmax]

The bills are a regional franchise...They depend heavily on southern ontario, rochester, and surrounding areas. I don't know itf the study even considered these areas. Football is a specator sport where many of it's fans travel over 200 miles to watch a game on any given sunday.

Bmax

[Bill Brasky]

It said it took into account 6 or 7 surrounding counties (if I remember correctly). I think a more interesting discussion would be the prospect of a MLB or NBA team in "upstate" NY.

Consider this....

Buffalo fell one vote short of landing a MLB team in 1969. They then lost out to Colorado and Florida in the early 90's. And in the later 90's when Arizona and Tampa Bay got franchises, the MLB actually offered Buffalo a team, which they turned down. It's obvious that the MLB wants a team in "upstate" NY, and I know there are people that would like to have a MLB team up there.

If the Bills eventually leave, do you think the city would try to land a MLB team if they choose to expand again? Even if they don't leave, I'm one of the crazies that still thinks another team could work in "upstate", perhaps even help turn the images of some of these cities around and help with the "rebuilding" process.

However, it's painfully obvious that economically, Buffalo alone cannot support another major sports franchise, at least at this point in time. But, with the high numbers of attendance in Buffalo, Roch, and Syracuse, maybe the areas should consider pooling together to land a team in Rochester? There's definitely a fan base. I think Rochester could support 1 team, whether baseball or basketball... they're already trying to land a pro soccer team, why not go bigger? If they got put in the AL they have automatic geographic rivals in NYY, Boston, Toronto, Cleveland and Interleague Rivals in Philly and Pitt.

Between the metros of Buffalo, Roch, and Syracuse, that is easily 3 million people, and having a team in Rochester would be centrally located to bring in other markets, like Ithaca and Binghamton.

Call me nuts, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Maybe if these areas started working together instead of against each other, they'd accomplish more.

[tampabay25690]

Maybe this wouldn't be an issue if half of the people that grow up in Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse actually stayed and lived there. Why shouldn't people move away the economy in those areas is PUTRID.........I will always LOVE Buff but the politicians really screwed are great city....

[patmoran2006]

Bunch of Crock Golisano has plenty of Money to keep the SABRES here and I repeat this again Erie County will find a way to keep the BILLS in WNY! There's no way we'll get a pro basketball team here again we had the BRAVES and they weren't good let's just say that they STUNK the only guy that was good on the team was 2 for McAdoo that's why they moved to LA and became the Clippers. besides we have a basketball team here maybe you've heard of them they're called the Rapids and they can't even find a home they have to play in a HS gym how pathetic :laughing:

Unfortunately It's not just up to Western New York if the Bills stay.......... That will be in the hands of who owns the Bills once Wilson is gone and what their intentions are... I would think that Wilson wants it assured the team will stay here...... I can't stand the ralph o nomics going on at OBD the past few years, but I 'm well aware if it wasnt for him, there wouldnt be a Buffalo bills team to talk about.

ANd freeman as much as i'd love to see it, I dont think you'll ever see a MLB here in Buffalo.

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

Maybe this wouldn't be an issue if half of the people that grow up in Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse actually stayed and lived there. Why shouldn't people move away the economy in those areas is PUTRID.........I will always LOVE Buff but the politicians really screwed are great city....

the person that has really screwed Bufalo is Joel cut everything in the red budget and raise property taxes Giambra :laughing:. Shure lets cut the fire department, Sheriff's patrol, close parks, lay off people, get rid of snowplows oh and my favorite keep your family and friends working for you Pork and Patronage. good idea Giambra :clap: :down:

[SabreEleven]

Actually the Braves moved to San Diego first.

[Bill Brasky]

Maybe this wouldn't be an issue if half of the people that grow up in Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse actually stayed and lived there. Why shouldn't people move away the economy in those areas is PUTRID.........I will always LOVE Buff but the politicians really screwed are great city....

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?p=1411991&postcount=9

i agree with you. the whole "i must get re-elected" bs is the reason "upstate" is a ****ing dump.

[tampabay25690]

the person that has really screwed Bufalo is Joel cut everything in the red budget and raise property taxes Giambra :laughing:. Shure lets cut the fire department, Sheriff's patrol, close parks, lay off people, get rid of snowplows oh and my favorite keep your family and friends working for you Pork and Patronage. good idea Giambra :clap: :down:

Thats exactly what I am saying....My wife worked dowtown and she saw all of this coming. Thats when we went down to Florida and visited, and now I have lived in a very growing city of Tampa. I swear half of Buffalo lives down here....

[OpIv37]

It said it took into account 6 or 7 surrounding counties (if I remember correctly). I think a more interesting discussion would be the prospect of a MLB or NBA team in "upstate" NY.

Consider this....

Buffalo fell one vote short of landing a MLB team in 1969. They then lost out to Colorado and Florida in the early 90's. And in the later 90's when Arizona and Tampa Bay got franchises, the MLB actually offered Buffalo a team, which they turned down. It's obvious that the MLB wants a team in "upstate" NY, and I know there are people that would like to have a MLB team up there.

If the Bills eventually leave, do you think the city would try to land a MLB team if they choose to expand again? Even if they don't leave, I'm one of the crazies that still thinks another team could work in "upstate", perhaps even help turn the images of some of these cities around and help with the "rebuilding" process.

However, it's painfully obvious that economically, Buffalo alone cannot support another major sports franchise, at least at this point in time. But, with the high numbers of attendance in Buffalo, Roch, and Syracuse, maybe the areas should consider pooling together to land a team in Rochester? There's definitely a fan base. I think Rochester could support 1 team, whether baseball or basketball... they're already trying to land a pro soccer team, why not go bigger? If they got put in the AL they have automatic geographic rivals in NYY, Boston, Toronto, Cleveland and Interleague Rivals in Philly and Pitt.

Between the metros of Buffalo, Roch, and Syracuse, that is easily 3 million people, and having a team in Rochester would be centrally located to bring in other markets, like Ithaca and Binghamton.

Call me nuts, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Maybe if these areas started working together instead of against each other, they'd accomplish more.


Rochester is a HUGE sports city- their A league soccer franchise sells more seats than most MLS franchises, and their indoor lacrosse team regularly leads the league as well. The Red Wings do well for attendance, although not as well as most MLB teams.

A baseball team in Rochester COULD work, if they could drum up enough support in Buffalo and Syracuse to add to the fan base. They'd probably have to play games in all 3 cities over the course of the season. The best model would probably be a home stadium in Rochester then doing 2-week stints in Buffalo and Syracuse, similar to what the Expos did in Puerto Rico in 2004.

The weather factor is a turn-off for the early spring games. But can the Carrier Dome be set up for baseball? If so, they could start the season there and the indoor aspect will attract the fans there.

[Bill Brasky]

Rochester is a HUGE sports city- their A league soccer franchise sells more seats than most MLS franchises, and their indoor lacrosse team regularly leads the league as well. The Red Wings do well for attendance, although not as well as most MLB teams.

A baseball team in Rochester COULD work, if they could drum up enough support in Buffalo and Syracuse to add to the fan base. They'd probably have to play games in all 3 cities over the course of the season. The best model would probably be a home stadium in Rochester then doing 2-week stints in Buffalo and Syracuse, similar to what the Expos did in Puerto Rico in 2004.

The weather factor is a turn-off for the early spring games. But can the Carrier Dome be set up for baseball? If so, they could start the season there and the indoor aspect will attract the fans there.
And to be quite honest, that would be a great idea. Bisons sell out. Red Wings sell out. And the Sky Chiefs do well. Big deal if the tickets are only $10 for a minor league game (read on). It would be completely unique to the area. Instead of playing all in one concentrated area, they could spread the fan base around... have most of the games in the ROC, and a few in SYR and BLO... it could revolutionize the game. I honestly think it could work, but everytime I say that, I get laughed at. The "upstate" area is basically a winter sport haven... there is nothing to do in the summer... if there was major league baseball that brought the other cities in the region like the Clevelands, the Torontos, etc. it would defintely work...

There's about 1.1 million people in the ROC area... another 1.2 in BUF and just under another million in SYR... not even counting Bing (50,000 +) and Ithaca (100,000+) I don't see why it can't work.

Doing the math... Over an 81 game season, every person in the BUF/ROC/SYR area would only have to go to 1 game the entire year to cover a 40,000 seat stadium (3 mill divided by 40,000 seats over an 81 game season). Even if the ticket prices went up to 30/40$ per game, I think every one of the 3 million citizens could afford to go to at least 1 game out of the year...

[Historian]

There's no way we'll get a pro basketball team here again we had the BRAVES and they weren't good let's just say that they STUNK the only guy that was good on the team was 2 for McAdoo that's why they moved to LA and became the Clippers.

I'm afraid not.

I was at a lot of those games, and the Braves were a consistent draw.

Ever hear of Adrian Dantley? Ernie DiGregorio? Randy Smith? You must have heard of Jack Ramsey?

This was a team that was primed to compete. Then it was yanked out of here due to one man's greed.

Would they have won any kind of title? I doubt it.

But to say they stunk and weren't supported is just plain wrong.

You can read the highlight and lowlights here:

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nba/buffalo/bufbraves.html

[Earthquake Enyart]

Bob McAdoo to the Knicks for John Gianelli and $6 million. :mad:

You Rochester guys, pipe down. Rochester is a cow town. You're lucky to have what you have.

[Bill Brasky]

I'm afraid not.

I was at a lot of those games, and the Braves were a consistent draw.

Ever hear of Adrian Dantley? Ernie DiGregorio? Randy Smith? You must have heard of Jack Ramsey?

This was a team that was primed to compete. Then it was yanked out of here due to one man's greed.

Would they have won any kind of title? I doubt it.

But to say they stunk and weren't supported is just plain wrong.

You can read the highlight and lowlights here:

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nba/buffalo/bufbraves.html

:bf1:

luckily the bz has a person like you that can offer insight to a buffalo sports past that is often and conveniently forgotten by many posters here.

[OpIv37]

Bob McAdoo to the Knicks for John Gianelli and $6 million. :mad:

You Rochester guys, pipe down. Rochester is a cow town. You're lucky to have what you have.

Rochester has only 100,000 people less than Buffalo and some demographers think it may overtake Buffalo soon.

So if Rochester's a cow town, then Buffalo's a cow town with a football stadium.

[OpIv37]

And to be quite honest, that would be a great idea. Bisons sell out. Red Wings sell out. And the Sky Chiefs do well. Big deal if the tickets are only $10 for a minor league game (read on). It would be completely unique to the area. Instead of playing all in one concentrated area, they could spread the fan base around... have most of the games in the ROC, and a few in SYR and BLO... it could revolutionize the game. I honestly think it could work, but everytime I say that, I get laughed at. The "upstate" area is basically a winter sport haven... there is nothing to do in the summer... if there was major league baseball that brought the other cities in the region like the Clevelands, the Torontos, etc. it would defintely work...

There's about 1.1 million people in the ROC area... another 1.2 in BUF and just under another million in SYR... not even counting Bing (50,000 +) and Ithaca (100,000+) I don't see why it can't work.

Doing the math... Over an 81 game season, every person in the BUF/ROC/SYR area would only have to go to 1 game the entire year to cover a 40,000 seat stadium (3 mill divided by 40,000 seats over an 81 game season). Even if the ticket prices went up to 30/40$ per game, I think every one of the 3 million citizens could afford to go to at least 1 game out of the year...


Too bad baseball will never have the balls to try it.

[Patrick76777]

it's not how much money people have- it's how much they SPEND. When the teams play well, WNY spends every spare cent it has on them, especially the Bills.

Also, was Monroe County (Rochester) considered as part of the Buffalo area in the first article? What about Southern Ontario (Canada)? They support the Buffalo sports franchises as well (well, maybe not the Sabres so much because of the Leafs, but definitely the Bills).

I think this article focused too much on the business definition of the "Buffalo area" and didn't take into account where the money really comes from.


Great points, but the Southern Ontario fans do buy a ton of Hockey tickets. Even though they sometimes go for Mont, Ott and Tor.

[Patrick76777]

Always hear the talk about how small we are but we easily sold out 8 NFL games and a majority of the NHL games this year.

[Historian]

:bf1:

luckily the bz has a person like you that can offer insight to a buffalo sports past that is often and conveniently forgotten by many posters here.

Well thanks Freeman.

And here's the ironic part:

One of the reasons the Braves were economically viable, was regionalization...they very topic you guys are discussing here in regards to baseball.

Out of roughly 40 home games, the Braves played at least half a dozen each year in Rochester and/or Syracuse. I believe they even played some preseason contests in Toronto.

I don't have all the places and dates, because I sold all my Braves media guides, (for a King's ransom I might add) but trust me, they played home games on the road each year, and even those were highly attended.

Channel 4 used to broadcast road games...Van Miller had the call.

Honestly, as a kid growing up in WNY, we were into the Braves just as much as the Sabres.

[Captain gameboy]

I'm afraid not.

I was at a lot of those games, and the Braves were a consistent draw.

Ever hear of Adrian Dantley? Ernie DiGregorio? Randy Smith? You must have heard of Jack Ramsey?


I was at a lot of those games as well.

Nobody ever heard of Ernie (no)D after he graduated from college.
A horrible draft choice.

But the Braves played well, and drew well, for a couple of years.

Anyway.....Buffalo needs some kind of economic rejuvenation prior to any discussion of another major league level sports franchise. Pro sports is business, and nobody would look at running a business with total reliance on discretionary spending in a relatively small but more important, declining, economic area.

Buffalo is a very serious sports area, but absolutely requires a salary cap situation with revenue sharing.

[Earthquake Enyart]

No way Buffalo could support 81 home baseball games.

No way.

[Historian]

This is a true story...

Every year, my Dad took me to the Braves game that was the closest to my birthday in March.

One year, I think it was my 13th or 14th birthday, he told me I had to wear a suit.

Of course I bawked at that, but he insisted.

The reason, I found out when we got there, was because on this occasion, for a Braves-Celtics clash...he had two tickets in the first row on the floor, under the basket.

We got there early. Coach Ramsey and McAdoo and a few others signed my program. Keep in mind...I was roughly 14...and there were the Braves, stretching about four feet from me.

Anyways, Randy made one of those patented steals, and raced up the court towards us for a layup. I jumped out of my chair, and almost landed on the court!

The Braves won the game that night too. They played inspired ball.

Sure enough, when we get home, we're watcjhing the recap on the sports news, and they show the Smith steal and layup.

Then all you see is this kid in a yellow corduroy leisure suit jump up from the first row. (Hey, cut me some slack...it was the '70's!)

True story.

EE....Do you have any Braves memories...Like you and Doc Ramsey going to High School together?

:D

[Bill Brasky]

This is a true story...

Every year, my Dad took me to the Braves game that was the closest to my birthday in March.

One year, I think it was my 13th or 14th birthday, he told me I had to wear a suit.

Of course I bawked at that, but he insisted.

The reason, I found out when we got there, was because on this occasion, for a Braves-Celtics clash...he had two tickets in the first row on the floor, under the basket.

We got there early. Coach Ramsey and McAdoo and a few others signed my program. Keep in mind...I was roughly 14...and there were the Braves, stretching about four feet from me.

Anyways, Randy made one of those patented steals, and raced up the court towards us for a layup. I jumped out of my chair, and almost landed on the court!

The Braves won the game that night too. They played inspired ball.

Sure enough, when we get home, we're watcjhing the recap on the sports news, and they show the Smith steal and layup.

Then all you see is this kid in a yellow corduroy leisure suit jump up from the first row. (Hey, cut me some slack...it was the '70's!)

True story.

EE....Do you have any Braves memories...Like you and Doc Ramsey going to High School together?

:D

That is fricken sweet dude.

I could sit here all day and recall all the great moments I've had at sporting events.

I think the only time I was ever on TV (for a sporting event) was when St Bona beat #4 Temple on a last second buzzer-beater 3 pointer... we all ran out on the court and I was on ESPN, which at the time was cool for me cuz I was only 16 or 17...

[Earthquake Enyart]

I remember going when the Globetrotters played a game before the Braves game. I'll never forget Meadowlark Lemon making a hook shot from half court...over by the side lines. Nothing but net.

[Bill Brasky]

That is fricken sweet dude.

I could sit here all day and recall all the great moments I've had at sporting events.

I think the only time I was ever on TV (for a sporting event) was when St Bona beat #4 Temple on a last second buzzer-beater 3 pointer... we all ran out on the court and I was on ESPN, which at the time was cool for me cuz I was only 16 or 17...
that game was actually sweet... St. Bona was losing 36-17 at halftime and Temple had the infamous half-court trap...

I'll never forget, at halftime, they had the traditional "come to halfcourt and nail the shot, win a car" bs... this guy came out, launched a half courter... it bounced off the freakin shot clock and just dropped straight through the hoop... the crowd went nuts... then the second half started and Bonas totally shut down Temple and completed an insane comeback capped by a 3 pointer to win it on the last shot of the game... besides the snow-bowl (Bills-Phins) it was probably the funnest game I've ever attended!

[Patrick76777]

No way Buffalo could support 81 home baseball games.

No way.
There was talk of bringing the Devil Rays up here. That means 30 of the 81 games are against the Yankees, Red Sox and the Blue Jays. The 20 Yankees/Sox games would sell out in about 4 seconds. The Jay games would do very well. The remaining 50 or so games would be tough.

They talked about it on the radio a few months back and the idea was to put the stadium up between Williamsville, Lancaster and Batavia in an effort to pull strongly from both Rochester and Buffalo.

I don’t think it would work, but few teams, if any sell out 81 games.

[Earthquake Enyart]

The Bisons don't even get a million any more.

What would you get at double the prices?

Triple A baseball is good. Triple A prices are good too.

[Bill Brasky]

The Bisons don't even get a million any more.

What would you get at double the prices?

Triple A baseball is good. Triple A prices are good too.

Whenever I get home for the summer, I try to take both of my bros to at least one Bisons game.

It'd be better if it was an MLB team, but regardless, it's still fun.

Putting a franchise in the Roc would make more sense, IMO.

[Captain gameboy]

No way Buffalo could support 81 home baseball games.

No way.

Absolutely not.

Further, it would never come to that point because nobody would ever consider putting their money on it.

Though I still don't understand why anyone would bring up Ernie D, a disastrous draft choice, my personal vignettes re Buffalo sports history include going to what Little Three games you could get tickets for when Calvin Murphy played for Niagara and Bob Lanier, et al., labored for St. Bonaventure.

Imagine Calvin Murphy, a 5'10 guy, dunking during pregame while "Sweet Georgia Brown" played in the background.
Van Miller doing play by play for Niagara games as Calvin puts in 68 against Syracuse.

As a grammar schooler, I acutally played on the Aud court during halftime of a Canisius game.

Oh well.

[Historian]

Triple A baseball is good. Triple A prices are good too.

I agree...and it's become a very hot ticket across the country, due to it's affordability.

But one of the reasons I never followed MLB as a kid, is because we didn't have a big league team here, despite having some great players pass through the city as minor leaguers.

In fact other than when the Yanks were in the World Series, I don't think I even watched any baseball until the advent of cable.

[Earthquake Enyart]

What sucked was getting the Expos on Canadian TV when they first started,getting somewhat hooked on them, then when they started to get good, the freaking Bluejays came along, so we had to watch crappy Bluejay baseball instead of the Expos.

[Bill Brasky]

I agree...and it's become a very hot ticket across the country, due to it's affordability.

But one of the reasons I never followed MLB as a kid, is because we didn't have a big league team here, despite having some great players pass through the city as minor leaguers.

In fact other than when the Yanks were in the World Series, I don't think I even watched any baseball until the advent of cable.

Same here, though I consider myself a Met fan.

I was never into baseball. I played little league but that was about it. If BLO had a pro team, I prolly would have been a huge fan. I consider myself a football and hockey fan basically because that was what was close to home.

[Captain gameboy]

Bison hats are the best in the world.
I lost one while landing a 40 pund tuna about three years ago.

Had it replaced immediately.

I never travel without it.

[OpIv37]

Absolutely not.

Further, it would never come to that point because nobody would ever consider putting their money on it.

Though I still don't understand why anyone would bring up Ernie D, a disastrous draft choice, my personal vignettes re Buffalo sports history include going to what Little Three games you could get tickets for when Calvin Murphy played for Niagara and Bob Lanier, et al., labored for St. Bonaventure.

Imagine Calvin Murphy, a 5'10 guy, dunking during pregame while "Sweet Georgia Brown" played in the background.
Van Miller doing play by play for Niagara games as Calvin puts in 68 against Syracuse.

As a grammar schooler, I acutally played on the Aud court during halftime of a Canisius game.

Oh well.


Calvin Murphy's son- Calvin Murphy Jr.- was at Niagara when I was there. Everyone had high expectations for him but he never amounted to anything. He was constantly *****ing about his playing time, despite the fact that he was only a sophomore and wasn't playing well.

He got kicked off the team and left the school, for getting in two fights, both of which I saw. The first one was at a bar- he and some other basketball players jumped some kid (I don't know why cuz I was just getting there when this all went down). The bouncers pushed the fight outside and they just whooped the tar out of this guy right there on the side of the road. Most of the players lived on my floor in the dorms, and the coaches and cops were there all night trying to sort the mess out.

The second one happened in broad daylight right on campus, as a fallout from the first fight. Jr was walking into the dining hall and someone just punched him in the back of the head and they went at it. Even though that wasn't his fault, the negative publicity pretty much sealed his fate.

[Michael82]

I'm afraid not.

I was at a lot of those games, and the Braves were a consistent draw.

Ever hear of Adrian Dantley? Ernie DiGregorio? Randy Smith? You must have heard of Jack Ramsey?

This was a team that was primed to compete. Then it was yanked out of here due to one man's greed.

Would they have won any kind of title? I doubt it.

But to say they stunk and weren't supported is just plain wrong.

You can read the highlight and lowlights here:

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nba/buffalo/bufbraves.html
The Rochester Royals were better. :D

[Michael82]

Bob McAdoo to the Knicks for John Gianelli and $6 million. :mad:

You Rochester guys, pipe down. Rochester is a cow town. You're lucky to have what you have.
If it wasn't for Rochester, the Buffalo Bills would be LOOOONG Gone. :ill: