All hopes for upgrading the OLine are now gone

[Bill Brasky]

Jets are close to signing Runyan... A couple Jet fans here at work have ESPN Insider and have told me... it's also all over the Gang Green.

Not that Runyan is a difference maker, but he would have been better than anything on the current roster. Bills are officially finishing in last place this year. I'll put money on it. :ill:

[Meathead]

http://www.victorianweb.org/graphics/suicide/6.jpg

[Night Train]

The Bills didn't wish to move Peters from RT and that canceled Runyan, who is strictly a RT.

I'd like to see another vet Guard before the Draft. A LT like Jon Scott of Texas or Coolege of Boise St. could be had in Round 2 of the Draft.

I was much more worried about the interior line positions. Fowler solved Center but Guard needs an upgrade.

If Peters stays at RT with TE Royal lining up next to him, then Willis will be running lots of sweeps to the right.

[lynobx]

Let's see. We have added Fowler at Center, we have a fast developing Preston, who can definitely be a fine Guard, and a RT in Peters, who many feel will be a star there. Villarrial can probably give us another servicable season, and Gandy did a decent job at LT last season.

I think we still need to draft an OT and a Guard with 2 of our first 4 picks, however, and, if we do, we'll be in good shape.

The sky isn't falling quite yet.

[EDS]

Let's see. We have added Fowler at Center, we have a fast developing Preston, who can definitely be a fine Guard, and a RT in Peters, who many feel will be a star there. Villarrial can probably give us another servicable season, and Gandy did a decent job at LT last season.

I think we still need to draft an OT and a Guard with 2 of our first 4 picks, however, and, if we do, we'll be in good shape.

The sky isn't falling quite yet.

Agreed.

[Iehoshua]

http://www.victorianweb.org/graphics/suicide/6.jpg
:rofl:

[acehole]

10586

not all all hope son....

Remember some team has to cut a promising guard or tackle or place them on the practice squad ....where we can pick them off.

Also dont discount a player for an eric moulds trade......

Stay tuned..

[Iehoshua]

Stay tuned..
No! No! It's over! There is zero hope! If your team on paper is bad, then you have no chance! After all, with the new collective bargaining agreement, games are now played in early April! Next week is gonna suck when the Bills go 0-16. Twice. :ill:

[SquishDaFish]

Its the end of the world as we know it!! ITS THE END OF THE WORLD!!! OH NO!!

[jamze132]

I do agree, we could have had a better offseason as far as the O-line goes. But since it didn't go as well wanted, we should commit ritual suicide in the parking lot of RWS.


jk

[Griz78]

I'd rather get some young players via the draft then spend money on 33 - 35 yr old players. We need to develop a line that can be around some years together.

[OpIv37]

No! No! It's over! There is zero hope! If your team on paper is bad, then you have no chance! After all, with the new collective bargaining agreement, games are now played in early April! Next week is gonna suck when the Bills go 0-16. Twice. :ill:


Its the end of the world as we know it!! ITS THE END OF THE WORLD!!! OH NO!!

hyperbole aside- the lack of performance of the O line was a big reason why 05 was such a bad season. It hasn't been fixed. You guys can't possibly be optimistic about this season with the current O line- we improved at center and that's it. Gandy's mediocre, Villarial is old and lazy, and Bennie Anderson just sucks (although Preston may take the place of Anderson or Villarial, but he's not ready yet).

[OpIv37]

I'd rather get some young players via the draft then spend money on 33 - 35 yr old players. We need to develop a line that can be around some years together.

But guys we draft won't be ready to step in and contribute (with the possible exception of Brick, who we won't get anyway). While the young guys are learning, we need some guys who can play instead of these overweight turnstyles we have now.

[Dr. Lecter]

How is 'all hope' gone when the draft has NOT even freakin' occurred yet?

As for the Bills finishing last ths year, it is very possible. TD left enough holes on this team that Marv can't re-build the team in one year.

PS: I would argue the line has already been upgraded with Fowler over Teague and Preston or whomever over Anderson. And also with the addition of Royal as a blocker so your original premise can be thrown out too.

[patmoran2006]

Although I wanted Runyan badly, I dont think so much the Bills dropped the ball at the tackle spot. It's pretty obvious that their plan is to draft a tackle in either the 1st or 2nd Round and start Gandy for another year. There's been worse things to happen in Bills history.

I am MUCH more disheartened that they did nothing at guard. As OP said, Anderson is a joke and Villarrial is old AND lazy (and he gets hurt every week). I sure as hell wouldn't count on Preston starting as for #1 I dont think he's ready and #2 I'm not sure he's the kind of guard you want in an offense where you pound the ball with Willis.

I'm sure a guard will emerge from the draft as a starter (based on assumption our first three picks will attack our biggest needs: T, G, DT),which is probably going to stick us with Villarrial for one more season. I dont believe for a second that Marv thinks this line is good enough, in fact he said it wasnt the day he was named GM. They'll work out a trade or get at least one new starter in through the draft besides Fowler.

While I have faith that Marv will still do more to get the O Line better, I'm dissapointed most because the lack of it through FA killed a lot of other draft day options that we might have had otherwise.. Can't move up for Brick now, you'd have to give up half your draft and we need to address too many holes there. It also kills the chance of taking a franchise playmaker like V Davis or a Polamalu-type safety like Huff or Jimmy Williams...

By the time the draft is over, Bennie Anderson will be finished as a starter and probably a Bill. Maybe we can get lucky and catch an upgrade for villarrial in june.

[Dr. Lecter]

Or the Bills draft a player to start at tackle (Say Eric Winston or Justice), move Gandy to guard to replace Anderson and go with Villarrial one more year. I also find it funny that Villarrial is 'old' at 33, yet Runyan is just fine at 32 (not you Pat). As for lazy, Villarrial is anything but. Injury prone yes, but not lazy. I can deal with him starting for one more year (he is a decent run slocker). And Preston might be ready.

I also like McFarland his rookie year and think he has potential.

[Bill Brasky]

How is 'all hope' gone when the draft has NOT even freakin' occurred yet?

As for the Bills finishing last ths year, it is very possible. TD left enough holes on this team that Marv can't re-build the team in one year.

PS: I would argue the line has already been upgraded with Fowler over Teague and Preston or whomever over Anderson. And also with the addition of Royal as a blocker so your original premise can be thrown out too.

I would generally agree with you, but how many impact linemen will be available at the #8 pick or in the second round? The answer is NONE.

Brick isn't going to fall to #8... most likely the Bills will go w/ a DT or trade the pick... and keep in mind our deep secondary now includes an aging Troy Vincent and a worthless Coy Wire... I'd venture to say that the #8 pick is going to be spent on either Ngata or Bunkley or traded... round two pick on a safety... you don't get many impact linemen in the 3rd round and if you do, they aren't starting for at least 2 years...

Right now they have Gandy who, on the best day of his career, is average... Preston who is the same... Peters who is unproven (you can't gauge the guy soley based on backup duty for Williams)... Villarial who is old and basically useless, and Fowler who is merely a slight upgrade from the inept Teague. Royal... give me a break. This guy couldn't even land a starting job on one of the worst offenses in the NFL last year so I am basically disregarding him as a solid option on this team.

This line sucks. It's worse than last year. The Bills had a pro-bowl calliber RB who could barely muster 3 YPC with the line he had last year... this season will be even worse once Moulds is gone. Teams will stack in the box... Holcomb is a terrible full-time QB... Losman is not only unproven, but also has virtually no chance at developing behind a noodle line... and without a proven #1 WR (Evans is worthy but will get double teamed to death) the passing game will basically be rendered useless. If you guys can't see that I'll gladly pay for you to have an eye appointment at Sterling Optical.

[patmoran2006]

People dont realize how hard its going to be for Evans to get room to get open when there is no real second option teams have to worry about.

Even though we have 10,000 receivers on our roster, I'd take a Maurice SToval or Demetrius Williams if they can pick up an extra pick in round two.

The Andre DAvis signing just absolutely BAFFLES me if they were bringing back Josh Reed.

[bernielivsey_1]

:xmas: Also, Dylan McFarland is playing pretty good in Europe. No sacks given up. Teague hasn't been signed anywhere yet has he? :drive:

[Spiderweb]

Let's see. We have added Fowler at Center, we have a fast developing Preston, who can definitely be a fine Guard, and a RT in Peters, who many feel will be a star there. Villarrial can probably give us another servicable season, and Gandy did a decent job at LT last season.

I think we still need to draft an OT and a Guard with 2 of our first 4 picks, however, and, if we do, we'll be in good shape.

The sky isn't falling quite yet.

Fast developing Preston? Based on what? Oh, I see. It was based on his playing time last year, in which he was consistently overpowered. Well, at least he can't get any worse so maybe that in and of itself means development.

[patmoran2006]

Or the Bills draft a player to start at tackle (Say Eric Winston or Justice), move Gandy to guard to replace Anderson and go with Villarrial one more year. I also find it funny that Villarrial is 'old' at 33, yet Runyan is just fine at 32 (not you Pat). As for lazy, Villarrial is anything but. Injury prone yes, but not lazy. I can deal with him starting for one more year (he is a decent run slocker). And Preston might be ready.

I also like McFarland his rookie year and think he has potential.

I didnt see him play in Chicago.. But from what I have been told and read, I heard that Gandy's play at guard in Chicago was horrible.

Plus I dont see a LT being drafted start as a rookie unless his last name is Ferguson. So I think we're stuck with Gandy for another year while a rookie in either rounds 1,2 or 3 learn for a season.

and I have heard a lot of good about McFarland.. If it came down to it and we didnt draft a LT, I actually wouldn't be all that shocked if he beat out Gandy.

[ICE74129]

Bills are officially finishing in last place this year. I'll put money on it. :ill:

How much?

[patmoran2006]

How much?

I actually agree with you.. I see the Jets finishing last, although I LOVE their coach. I also think they will end up with reggie bush too, though he wont be able to help him this year.

[Bill Brasky]

I actually agree with you.. I see the Jets finishing last, although I LOVE their coach. I also think they will end up with reggie bush too, though he wont be able to help him this year.

I'm assuming Pennington stays healthy.... of course, that is a big assumption.

[footballhottie]

he wont

[dannyek71]

looking forward to 2007

[Bill Cody]

I'm glad we didn't waste money on an aging guy like Runyan. There will be some good OL players available when we pick in the 2nd. Mangold would be a great pick up there.

[camelcowboy]

Take the guns out of your mouths and wait for the draft. I'll bet many of you will feel better about the lines after the first day. Marv is looking for youth, thats why we had no shot of signing Runyan, or Neal " he'll be 33, by the time this team is ready to compete for a champion ship. Marv in my opinion will trade down maybe a couple times and get as many picks as possible. Watch we'll have six players by the end of day one.

[Dr. Lecter]

I would generally agree with you, but how many impact linemen will be available at the #8 pick or in the second round? The answer is NONE.

Brick isn't going to fall to #8... most likely the Bills will go w/ a DT or trade the pick... and keep in mind our deep secondary now includes an aging Troy Vincent and a worthless Coy Wire... I'd venture to say that the #8 pick is going to be spent on either Ngata or Bunkley or traded... round two pick on a safety... you don't get many impact linemen in the 3rd round and if you do, they aren't starting for at least 2 years...

Right now they have Gandy who, on the best day of his career, is average... Preston who is the same... Peters who is unproven (you can't gauge the guy soley based on backup duty for Williams)... Villarial who is old and basically useless, and Fowler who is merely a slight upgrade from the inept Teague. Royal... give me a break. This guy couldn't even land a starting job on one of the worst offenses in the NFL last year so I am basically disregarding him as a solid option on this team.

This line sucks. It's worse than last year. The Bills had a pro-bowl calliber RB who could barely muster 3 YPC with the line he had last year... this season will be even worse once Moulds is gone. Teams will stack in the box... Holcomb is a terrible full-time QB... Losman is not only unproven, but also has virtually no chance at developing behind a noodle line... and without a proven #1 WR (Evans is worthy but will get double teamed to death) the passing game will basically be rendered useless. If you guys can't see that I'll gladly pay for you to have an eye appointment at Sterling Optical.

Preston was a rookie last year, to say he is only average is judging way too quickly. He, like Peters, is unproven. And with Peters, he did start quite a bit last year so he is being judged on more than just back-up duty. Royal did not start in Washington because they had Cooley who is a very goo d receiving TE. He (Royal) is still a very good blocker. If the Bills do trade down, guys like Justice, Winston, McNeill, Scott, Mangold, and others are still possibilities.

A starting line of: LT - Winston, LG - Preston/Gandy, C - Fowler, RG - Villarrial/Gandy, RT- Peters would be young and worth a year of development, imo.

[SquishDaFish]

I totally agree DR

[Mski]

I'm assuming Pennington stays healthy.... of course, that is a big assumption.

pennington's career is over! he's always had a noodle for an arm even before his shoulder injury! now that he's hurt it twice in the last two seasons he's going to throw up floaters. with that said i HOPE he's the jets starter next year he wont be able to get the ball to his recievers.

[Mr. Pink]

How much?

I will be willing to bet whatever zonebucks I acquire from now up until opening day that the Bills finish in last. It won't be a lot but will be a fun little wager. :)

[justasportsfan]

I will be willing to bet whatever zonebucks I acquire from now up until opening day that the Bills finish in last. It won't be a lot but will be a fun little wager. :)betting against your own team?

[Mr. Pink]

betting against your own team?

I just want to jump into the fun. Plus I'm thinking objectively...I don't figure on this team being good this year, especially with the moves. I'm hoping these moves pan out down the road and we can have solid drafts, so that we can have LEGITIMATE playoff aspirations in year 2007 or 2008. Based upon what we've done so far, and yes, so far, the draft could bring in some major stud/studs who help us to a better record, we're looking at another top 10 pick.

[Bmax]

Here some lineman who still could help the bills.....


BMAX


OT 3 Brad Hopkins UFA 13 6-3/305 Illinois Tennessee
OT 9 Jordan Black RFA 3 6-6/314 Notre Dame Kansas City
OT 10 Tony Pashos RFA 3 6-6/337 Illinois Baltimore
14 Anthony Clement UFA 6 6-8/337 Louisiana-Lafayette San Francisco
OT 16 Damion McIntosh UFA 6 6-4/327 Kansas State Miami
OT 17 Adam Haayer UFA 5 6-6/308 Minnesota Arizona
OT 20 Kurt Vollers UFA 4 6-7/315 Notre Dame Indianapolis
OT NR Ephraim Salaam UFA 8 6-7/295 San Diego State Jacksonville
OT NR Marcus Price UFA 10 6-4/310 LSU Dallas
NR Ethan Brooks UFA 8 6-6/330 Williams College Dallas
OT NR Todd Fordham UFA 9 6-5/315 Florida State Carolina
OT NR Makoa Freitas RFA 3 6-4/307 Arizona Indianapolis
OT NR Scott Gragg UFA 11 6-8/315 Montana NY Jets
OT NR Wayne Hunter RFA 3 6-6/303 Hawaii Seattle
OT NR Mike Pearson UFA 4 6-7/303 Florida Jacksonville
OT NR Victor Rogers RFA 4 6-6/331 Colorado Detroit Detroit
OT NR Todd Steussie UFA 12 6-6/320 California Tampa Bay
OT NR Jacob Rogers UFA 2 6-6/306 USC Dallas
OT NR Seth Wand RFA 3 6-7/327 Northwest Missouri State Houston
OT NR Matt Hill UFA 4 6-6/304 Boise State Carolina
OT NR Matt Morgan UFA 2 6-6.5/304 Pittsburgh St. Louis


OG 3 Vince Manuwai RFA 3 6-2/304 Hawaii Jacksonville
OG 5 Derrick Dockery RFA 3 6-6/345 Texas Washington
12 Matt Stinchcomb UFA 7 6-6/310 Georgia Tampa Bay
OG 13 Tutan Reyes UFA 5 6-3/299 Mississippi Carolina
OG 15 Scott Kooistra RFA 3 6-1/316 North Carolina State Cincinnati
OG 16 Tom Nutten UFA 9 6-5/295 Western Michigan St. Louis
OG 17 Grey Ruegamer UFA 7 6-4/305 Arizona State Green Bay
20 Ron Stone UFA 11 6-5/325 Boston College Oakland
OG NR Jonathan Goodwin UFA 4 6-3/318 Michigan NY Jets
OG NR Montrae Holland RFA 3 6-2/322 Florida State New Orleans
OG NR David Loverne UFA 7 6-3/299 San Jose State Detroit

OUR LINE IS SO BAD EVEN SOME OF THESE GUYS WILL HELP US A GOOD DEAL...

[Tatonka]

Let's see. We have added Fowler at Center, we have a fast developing Preston, who can definitely be a fine Guard, and a RT in Peters, who many feel will be a star there. Villarrial can probably give us another servicable season, and Gandy did a decent job at LT last season.

I think we still need to draft an OT and a Guard with 2 of our first 4 picks, however, and, if we do, we'll be in good shape.

The sky isn't falling quite yet.

i am not saying the sky is falling, but what have you seen from preston that would make you say he is "fast developing" and "can definately be a fine guard"?

just curious?

i saw nothing from him last year..nothing. at all. nada. zip.

[feelthepain]

Eagles | Runyan reaches multi-year deal to return
Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:56:40 -0800

Adam Caplan, of Pro Football News and Injury Report, reports the Philadelphia Eagles have reached a multi-year deal to retain OT Jon Runyan. Terms of the deal are not currently available.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Dozerdog]

One of the deepest drafts in years for Tackles and Centers, Guards aren't to shabby either.


I'd rather draft a few good guys than pay ridiculous prices for 4-5 years