what have the Bills done to improve?

[OpIv37]

I'm frustrated because I see teams like the Jets and the Dolphins making moves to improve their teams, while the Bills do very little. Let's take a look to see where we've improved from last season, where we've regressed, and where we've broke even:

Note: this is long but there's a conclusion at the end.

1. Coaching: Face it, the coaching staff was a disaster last year. However, different isn't always good. Fewell has no experience as DC and Jauron has never been a winner. Fairchild ran an offense that is not consistent with what Jauron has done, and some say that Martz had a lot of control over the offense (although I'm not sure I buy that because the Rams offense played about the same when Martz was recuperating). I think I have to give this one an incomplete- its just too early to judge.

2. D-line: Even. We got Tripplett but lost Adams (and his attitude problem). We still only have one starting caliber DT. Re-signed Denney- why?

3. O-line: Regressed. We added Fowler, which is an improvement over Teague. We lost Mike Williams, which is addition by subtraction. But we still don't have enough O-linemen and the only Peters and Fowler are really starting caliber at this point.

4. Running backs: McGahee seems to be taking the off-season more seriously, so I'll say we improved here. Still would like to see a better back-up than Shaud.

5. Receivers: Even. Davis added, Reed re-signed, Moulds a ?. Davis isn't as big a name as Moulds, but I bet he could match Moulds' paltry numbers from the last few seasons.

6. DB's: Milloy gone, no replacement named. Clements re-signed despite an awful season. I'll go with even here, although an argument could be made for regression.

7. TE's: Royal is an upgrade over Campbell. Everett should be ready to play. Definite improvement here.

8. LB's. Spikes back, Crowell signed- improvement. Side note: Fletcher and Posey are old and it would be nice to have a replacement in mind, but certainly not high priority given the team's other needs.

9. QB. Even. Nall just adds a ? to the mix.

Conclusion: We improved at LB and TE. However, the OL is in worse shape than it was last year, the DL is at best even, and the coaching staff could go either way. To me, that shows that 2 of the 3 biggest problems from last season have yet to be addressed completely, and the one that has been addressed may or may not be an improvement. I'm irritated at how the Jets and Fish are upgrading while the Bills stand idly by and seem content with the horrid product we had on the field last season.

So, where is anyone finding any hope for this upcoming season? I just don't see it.

[patmoran2006]

This is just my opinion of course, but I'm telling you right now.. I STRONGLY, very strongly feel that one BIG, HUGE thing has led to the type of off-season and approach we've taken..

That's the fact that Mularkey waited a week too long to quit... If Wilson had known this and fired Mularkey when he fired Donahoe, I HONESTLY think that Levy would be the HEAD COACH of this team right now, not the GM.

I think we can all agree Marv wanted to be head coach, I mean do you remember his press conference after Mularkey quit and he didnt rule himself out?

I truly feel this team would be A LOT better off had Marv coached and Modrak became GM. We all KNOW Marv can coach with the best of them, but we dont know if he can be a good GM.

My point is this. If Mularkey quit/fired when Donahoe left, and Marv was coach.. one thing would be certain.. we'd have a bunch of different FA's in here right now.. Marv at 80-years old the approach would have been different. Guys like Fabini, Mawae, etc would have gotten much longer looks.

And Yes I know the draft the draft the draft.. Guess what.. If you spend $1 dollar in free agency or $20 million, you StILL Have the 8th pick, u just now have a lot more options.

I think this team would have been approaching things a lot differently had Levy been coach, as far-fetched as it seems now. And NOBODY would be doubting Marv as a head coach for a second.

So to me, it was timing. mularkey screwed us over one last time by waiting that week to quit.

[patmoran2006]

and let me add that I think Perry F is a VERY good defensive coordinator and will be a H.C. someday.. There was your understudy.

[OpIv37]

There's one huge problem: when was the last time a Bills draft pick contributed immediately? The only one in recent memory is Lee Evans. Granted, injuries to Everett, Parrish and McGahee kept them from helping out right away.

Now, hopefully Marv and Jauron will draft better than that idiot TD did. But I still don't hold out much hope for draft picks making us better in the short term (read: 2006).

And so far, this team doesn't seem like it's gotten any better. If it has, I'd like someone to explain to me HOW because I just don't see it.

[DarbyTheDinosaur]

3. O-line: Regressed. We added Fowler, which is an improvement over Teague. We lost Mike Williams, which is addition by subtraction. But we still don't have enough O-linemen and the only Peters and Fowler are really starting caliber at this point.


You state two improvements (Fowler and ditching Fat Mike) and then there is no other change listed...how is this counted as regressing?




8. LB's. Spikes back, Crowell signed- improvement. Side note: Fletcher and Posey are old and it would be nice to have a replacement in mind, but certainly not high priority given the team's other needs.


I still do not get why everyone hates Fletcher so much...sure he's older but look at his numbers with Buffalo.

2002 - 97 tackles, 50 assists, 3 sacks
2003 - 96 tackles, 37, 2 sacks
2004 - 92 tackles, 50, 3.5 sacks
2005 - 104 tackles, 53, 4 sacks

It's not like we re-signed him...he's still under contract, he's still performing to expectations...how is this regression? You hit the nail on the head...his replacement is not a highpri this offseason...so why nail the front office on this?

[patmoran2006]

I HONESTLY think if we kept Sam Adams our DL would be fine with Tripplett coming in, and if we signed just ONE good guard in FA, everyone would be a lot more upbeat about the FA period we had.

[patmoran2006]

It could be argued that Bennie Anderson and Tim Anderson are the worst two starters on the team, and upgrading both of them should have been the first two moves we made.

[OpIv37]

You state two improvements (Fowler and ditching Fat Mike) and then there is no other change listed...how is this counted as regressing?




I still do not get why everyone hates Fletcher so much...sure he's older but look at his numbers with Buffalo.

2002 - 97 tackles, 50 assists, 3 sacks
2003 - 96 tackles, 37, 2 sacks
2004 - 92 tackles, 50, 3.5 sacks
2005 - 104 tackles, 53, 4 sacks

It's not like we re-signed him...he's still under contract, he's still performing to expectations...how is this regression? You hit the nail on the head...his replacement is not a highpri this offseason...so why nail the front office on this?

I put the thing about Fletcher as a side note- I think he's still serviceable, but he won't be for much longer. And the knock on him is that he gets big numbers but makes few big plays (tackles for losses, sacks, batted balls, etc.) Most of his tackles are after a 5 or 6 yard run.

The OL has regressed because we still don't have enough OL to get through the season. It's good that Williams is gone but who the hell is taking his place? Greg Jerman? He's an 04 MIAMI reject (remember how bad their line was that year?) We're one injury from being WORSE than last year.

[ICE74129]

:baby:

[Bill Brasky]

I'm frustrated because I see teams like the Jets and the Dolphins making moves to improve their teams, while the Bills do very little. Let's take a look to see where we've improved from last season, where we've regressed, and where we've broke even:

Note: this is long but there's a conclusion at the end.

1. Coaching: Face it, the coaching staff was a disaster last year. However, different isn't always good. Fewell has no experience as DC and Jauron has never been a winner. Fairchild ran an offense that is not consistent with what Jauron has done, and some say that Martz had a lot of control over the offense (although I'm not sure I buy that because the Rams offense played about the same when Martz was recuperating). I think I have to give this one an incomplete- its just too early to judge.

2. D-line: Even. We got Tripplett but lost Adams (and his attitude problem). We still only have one starting caliber DT. Re-signed Denney- why?

3. O-line: Regressed. We added Fowler, which is an improvement over Teague. We lost Mike Williams, which is addition by subtraction. But we still don't have enough O-linemen and the only Peters and Fowler are really starting caliber at this point.

4. Running backs: McGahee seems to be taking the off-season more seriously, so I'll say we improved here. Still would like to see a better back-up than Shaud.

5. Receivers: Even. Davis added, Reed re-signed, Moulds a ?. Davis isn't as big a name as Moulds, but I bet he could match Moulds' paltry numbers from the last few seasons.

6. DB's: Milloy gone, no replacement named. Clements re-signed despite an awful season. I'll go with even here, although an argument could be made for regression.

7. TE's: Royal is an upgrade over Campbell. Everett should be ready to play. Definite improvement here.

8. LB's. Spikes back, Crowell signed- improvement. Side note: Fletcher and Posey are old and it would be nice to have a replacement in mind, but certainly not high priority given the team's other needs.

9. QB. Even. Nall just adds a ? to the mix.

Conclusion: We improved at LB and TE. However, the OL is in worse shape than it was last year, the DL is at best even, and the coaching staff could go either way. To me, that shows that 2 of the 3 biggest problems from last season have yet to be addressed completely, and the one that has been addressed may or may not be an improvement. I'm irritated at how the Jets and Fish are upgrading while the Bills stand idly by and seem content with the horrid product we had on the field last season.

So, where is anyone finding any hope for this upcoming season? I just don't see it.

you better watch out with posts like this OP... you will have guys like BillsIN05 callin you ******, ******, idiot, homo, and every other high-class word they teach in the mass. educational system.

[EDS]

There's one huge problem: when was the last time a Bills draft pick contributed immediately? The only one in recent memory is Lee Evans. Granted, injuries to Everett, Parrish and McGahee kept them from helping out right away.

Now, hopefully Marv and Jauron will draft better than that idiot TD did. But I still don't hold out much hope for draft picks making us better in the short term (read: 2006).

And so far, this team doesn't seem like it's gotten any better. If it has, I'd like someone to explain to me HOW because I just don't see it.

Schobel had around 8 sacks as a rookie; Jonas Jennings started as a rookie; Clements started as a rookie; McGahee didn't play his rookie year but played well his first year he saw action.

[OpIv37]

:baby:

mature, insightful response.

If I'm just crying, please tell me what I said that was wrong and how we're better than last year. Cuz I just don't see it.

[patmoran2006]

:baby:

Yep.. Only "babies" would ever question whether THEIR FAVORITE football team has improved at all.

[DarbyTheDinosaur]

I put the thing about Fletcher as a side note- I think he's still serviceable, but he won't be for much longer. And the knock on him is that he gets big numbers but makes few big plays (tackles for losses, sacks, batted balls, etc.) Most of his tackles are after a 5 or 6 yard run.

The OL has regressed because we still don't have enough OL to get through the season. It's good that Williams is gone but who the hell is taking his place? Greg Jerman? He's an 04 MIAMI reject (remember how bad their line was that year?) We're one injury from being WORSE than last year.

True and accurate points...thanks for the clarification.

Tackles after 5 or 6 yard runs could be reduced if the d line was slowing down some pups. Another solid and hungry DT w/ Tripplet and this may get better. I just look forward to our LB corps next season. Fletch is solid...TKO (we hope) can come back to 85-90% of waht he was and still be a beast and I think Crowell proved he belongs more so than Posey. TKO was the glue on this D. We lost him and we lost it all.

[OpIv37]

you better watch out with posts like this OP... you will have guys like BillsIN05 callin you ******, ******, idiot, homo, and every other high-class word they teach in the mass. educational system.

the old shoot-the-messenger syndrome. Some people would rather live in their fantasy world than face reality.

[OpIv37]

Schobel had around 8 sacks as a rookie; Jonas Jennings started as a rookie; Clements started as a rookie; McGahee didn't play his rookie year but played well his first year he saw action.

Wasn't '01 Clements' rookie year? Our D was horrid- I don't know how you can say he contributed. "First year he saw action" is not the same as rookie year- I'm talking about the chances of guys we pick in this year's draft helping us win THIS YEAR.

I'll give you Jennings and Schobel (although I don't recall how Jennings played his rookie year). With Evans, that means 3 draft picks over the last 5 years (approximately 35, give or take a few) have been immediate contributers. So I don't think we can count on the draft as far as winning NOW.

[OpIv37]

True and accurate points...thanks for the clarification.

Tackles after 5 or 6 yard runs could be reduced if the d line was slowing down some pups. Another solid and hungry DT w/ Tripplet and this may get better. I just look forward to our LB corps next season. Fletch is solid...TKO (we hope) can come back to 85-90% of waht he was and still be a beast and I think Crowell proved he belongs more so than Posey. TKO was the glue on this D. We lost him and we lost it all.

I agree on TKO- he's the heart of the defense. I can't guarantee his presence would have resulted in more wins last year, but I can guarantee that Oakland does NOT score that final touchdown if he's on the field.

TKO at 85% is better than any LB on our roster and better than most LB's in the league.

Crowell has proven himself, but some people on this board have said you need a bigger guy like Posey on strong side LB. So either we run the 3-4 and get all 4 on the field at the same time, or we have one hell of a backup in Crowell. I think Posey can also play DE- I wouldn't mind seeing a 3-4 with Posey moving up to a down lineman when a 4-3 look is better.

[patmoran2006]

I think that's the reason that Posey is still on this team. think your going to see him spell Kelsay a lot this season at DE, especially in passing situations.

He's still good at getting after the Qb, he's HORRIBLE in pass coverage.

[OpIv37]

I think that's the reason that Posey is still on this team. think your going to see him spell Kelsay a lot this season at DE, especially in passing situations.

He's still good at getting after the Qb, he's HORRIBLE in pass coverage.

cuz he's slower than, well, me. Remember that fumble recovery last year? He had a full 10 yard head start and still couldn't make it to the endzone.

[justasportsfan]

you better watch out with posts like this OP... you will have guys like BillsIN05 callin you ******, ******, idiot, homo, and every other high-class word they teach in the mass. educational system.You forgot, whiner, crybaby, frenchie, suicidal. that would be in Pat thread. Oh wait, this is a Pat thread. oh wait, no it's an Op, oh wait , no it's a Pat....dang I don't know anymore. Same stuff.


:buddies: You guys need to get a room.

[patmoran2006]

Dude trust me I feel your pain..
I wasn't a "whiner" on this board until after FA started.. I was on board with everyone, because I expected a lot more.

My "Wilson has told me this before" ability to be positive has worn thin. This team dropped the ball in FA, and there are no if, ands or buts about it.

They needed a lot of help, and they didnt get it. The only key signing they made only made up for cutting another.

I'm a lot more skeptical about the draft than I am FA. DRafts are crapshoots, the BEST gms get it wrong.. FA is full of players who have PROVED they can play at the nfl level.

If we were cash-strapped fighting to stay under the cap, I could see why we went this route. We weren't and odds are for another year at least, we're going to pay for it big time in the standings. We could have mixed a good draft (which nobody knows how that will turn out) with 3-4 key FA's who could have helped us from the day they walked into camp in Late July.

[justasportsfan]

You forgot, whiner, crybaby, frenchie, suicidal. that would be in Pat thread. Oh wait, this is a Pat thread. oh wait, no it's an Op, oh wait , no it's a Pat....dang I don't know anymore. Same stuff.

Op has a buddy now. :buddies:

[patmoran2006]

You forgot, whiner, crybaby, frenchie, suicidal. that would be in Pat thread. Oh wait, this is a Pat thread. oh wait, no it's an Op, oh wait , no it's a Pat....dang I don't know anymore. Same stuff.

And there is the same "funny" comments of yours.. AGAIN and AGAIN.. Have you ever had a job as a stand-up comedian or something?

We are talking football.. You and ICe have your "smilies" and "one liners" that have NOTHING to do with the topic of the thread.

[OpIv37]

You forgot, whiner, crybaby, frenchie, suicidal. that would be in Pat thread. Oh wait, this is a Pat thread. oh wait, no it's an Op, oh wait , no it's a Pat....dang I don't know anymore. Same stuff.

Right, here's where I'm supposed to get all pissed and go "I'm not like Pat cuz blah blah blah...". I really don't care if you compare me to him or Wys or anyone else.

But you still didn't answer the question. What has been done to make this team better than last year's 5-11 debacle, and is it enough?

[patmoran2006]

Dont expect an answer .. Expect a one-line insult for having the audacity to bring up that kind of topic.

[EDS]

Wasn't '01 Clements' rookie year? Our D was horrid- I don't know how you can say he contributed. "First year he saw action" is not the same as rookie year- I'm talking about the chances of guys we pick in this year's draft helping us win THIS YEAR.

I'll give you Jennings and Schobel (although I don't recall how Jennings played his rookie year). With Evans, that means 3 draft picks over the last 5 years (approximately 35, give or take a few) have been immediate contributers. So I don't think we can count on the draft as far as winning NOW.

Clements came in the year after TD cleaned house so it was unquestionably an undermaned defense. But, for a rookie corner Clements was pretty much as good as it gets. Josh Reed and Travis Henry also contributed as rookies, so you have to add them as well.

Realistically, you can only expect 1 or 2 rookies to start or contribute each year. for this year, the Bills are going to need two rookies to step up - defensive tackle and left guard. But if the Bills draft Bunkley/Ngata in round one and a guard in round two (there are some very good ones that will be available) then it is not unreasonable to think that can happen.

In addition, you have to factor in that the Bills had no first round pick last year and picked someone in the first round two years prior to that who was injured and not going to play. The Bills traded another first round pick to Cinncinati for TKO.

[patmoran2006]

Schobel had around 8 sacks as a rookie; Jonas Jennings started as a rookie; Clements started as a rookie; McGahee didn't play his rookie year but played well his first year he saw action.

At least this guy says things that have to do with the topic.

[patmoran2006]

Clements came in the year after TD cleaned house so it was unquestionably an undermaned defense. But, for a rookie corner Clements was pretty much as good as it gets. Josh Reed and Travis Henry also contributed as rookies, so you have to add them as well.

Realistically, you can only expect 1 or 2 rookies to start or contribute each year. for this year, the Bills are going to need two rookies to step up - defensive tackle and left guard. But if the Bills draft Bunkley/Ngata in round one and a guard in round two (there are some very good ones that will be available) then it is not unreasonable to think that can happen.

In addition, you have to factor in that the Bills had no first round pick last year and picked someone in the first round two years prior to that who was injured and not going to play. The Bills traded another first round pick to Cinncinati for TKO.

Im asking a question, not being a smart-ass.. I dont remember giving the Bengals a first round draft pick for TKO.. We did?

[OpIv37]

Dude trust me I feel your pain..
I wasn't a "whiner" on this board until after FA started.. I was on board with everyone, because I expected a lot more.



There are a few people here who don't like to hear anything negative about the team, no matter how true it is. They'd rather have their head in the sand.

Oh, btw, if the team does suck, they will accuse you of caring more about being right than about the success of the team. You can't win unless you're an all-out homer and think that every move the Bills make is the best sports decision since the Chicago Bulls drafted Michael Jordan at #3.

[justasportsfan]

Right, here's where I'm supposed to get all pissed and go "I'm not like Pat cuz blah blah blah...". I really don't care if you compare me to him or Wys or anyone else.

But you still didn't answer the question. What has been done to make this team better than last year's 5-11 debacle, and is it enough?you're telling me we haven't improved yet and we haven't even started playing yet?
How about addition by subtraction? The fins got better the day they got rid of Wanny.

I cannot tell you where we are better or not . There aren't any facts to support it but if you guys already insist we got weaker even though there's still June 1 and the draft, YOu GUYS ARE not doing ANYTHING but crying.

t's one thing to speculate once in a while but to complain constantly one post/thread after another means YOU are acting like it's a fact.

You both need to get a room. Forget about it, you guys are gonna find something to b!tch about the room. :D.

[OpIv37]

Clements came in the year after TD cleaned house so it was unquestionably an undermaned defense. But, for a rookie corner Clements was pretty much as good as it gets. Josh Reed and Travis Henry also contributed as rookies, so you have to add them as well.

Realistically, you can only expect 1 or 2 rookies to start or contribute each year. for this year, the Bills are going to need two rookies to step up - defensive tackle and left guard. But if the Bills draft Bunkley/Ngata in round one and a guard in round two (there are some very good ones that will be available) then it is not unreasonable to think that can happen.

In addition, you have to factor in that the Bills had no first round pick last year and picked someone in the first round two years prior to that who was injured and not going to play. The Bills traded another first round pick to Cinncinati for TKO.

fair enough- it's possible, but not likely, that we can get immediate help for both lines in the draft. But like patmoran said, I'd rather see some proven guys brought in via FA. And there's always the chance that we won't get our guy (although I highly doubt both Bunkley and Ngata will be gone by 8).

[justasportsfan]

Dude trust me I feel your pain..
I wasn't a "whiner" on this board until after FA started.. I was on board with everyone, because I expected a lot more.

My "Wilson has told me this before" ability to be positive has worn thin. This team dropped the ball in FA, and there are no if, ands or buts about it.

They needed a lot of help, and they didnt get it. The only key signing they made only made up for cutting another.

I'm a lot more skeptical about the draft than I am FA. DRafts are crapshoots, the BEST gms get it wrong.. FA is full of players who have PROVED they can play at the nfl level.

If we were cash-strapped fighting to stay under the cap, I could see why we went this route. We weren't and odds are for another year at least, we're going to pay for it big time in the standings. We could have mixed a good draft (which nobody knows how that will turn out) with 3-4 key FA's who could have helped us from the day they walked into camp in Late July.



When you do it constantly it's whining. Now understand one thing, I never said for anyone to leave or stop. Everyone has the right to their whining. I myself am whining about you whining :D.

[patmoran2006]

Ya I pull out that credit card every year and pay for tickets and at least one new jersey per year, not to mention the amount of Bills stuff I buy my kid... Because I want the bills to suck.

I didnt expect us to rival the 85 Bears in one year.. I also didnt expect us to rival the 85 Bills in one year either, which is where we are headed.

[OpIv37]

you're telling me we haven't improved yet and we haven't even started playing yet?
How about addition by subtraction? The fins got better the day they got rid of Wanny.

I cannot tell you where we are better or not . There aren't any facts to support it but if you guys already insist we got weaker even though there's still June 1 and the draft, YOu GUYS ARE not doing ANYTHING but crying.


well of course it's all speculation at this point, but what the hell else are we going to do in the off-season?

Please tell me where the Bills APPEAR to have gotten better. I'm looking for signs of improvement and not seeing any. You're just taking the "wait-and-see" approach rather than thinking critically about the team.

[justasportsfan]

Have you ever had a job as a stand-up comedian or something?

. Nope, But I ever decide to, I'll need you football comments for material. :D

[patmoran2006]

Just cant take a dude serious with that avatar man.
http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/customavatars/avatar113_1.gif (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php?u=113)

[OpIv37]

When you do it constantly it's whining. Now understand one thing, I never said for anyone to leave or stop. Everyone has the right to their whining. I myself am whining about you whining :D.

In my defense, I haven't been around a lot lately so I haven't been doing it constantly.

It's just that this week, the Dolphins and Jets made several moves to improve their teams, and a lot of good FA's that could have helped us signed with other teams. I'm getting frustrated that this team hasn't done a lot to improve on last year's 5-11 record, and I'm giving people who see it differently an opportunity to state their case.

[justasportsfan]

well of course it's all speculation at this point, but what the hell else are we going to do in the off-season?

Please tell me where the Bills APPEAR to have gotten better. I'm looking for signs of improvement and not seeing any. You're just taking the "wait-and-see" approach rather than thinking critically about the team.
What's wrong with the wait and see approach. Like I said, that's my way and your way is complain. Do what you do best and I'll do what I do , wipe your tears.

[OpIv37]

What's wrong with the wait and see approach. Like I said, that's my way and your way is complain. Do what you do best and I'll do what I do , wipe your tears.

I don't know- maybe there's nothing wrong with it. It's just hard for me to believe that people can spend as much (or more) time on the Bills as I do and not have a strong opinion about it. I guess it's a DC thing. We always say there are two things that everyone in this city has: a business card and an opinion.

[justasportsfan]

Just cant take a dude serious with that avatar man.
http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/customavatars/avatar113_1.gif (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php?u=113)
Haha! Now, that we know what you're really like, I don't think anyone will be interested with your articles anymore. You have no more credibility. You keep accusing ICE of changing his mind, you do too. You don't say it outright but you love to make implications.


Do us a favor. when you write your article about "Bills fans passion" make sure you speak for yourself. Make that clear. We don't want to make people think that we are whiners like you.

We've been laughed at through 4 sb losses. you think we care what people say about the bills this season? Obviously you do. So make sure you do not speak on my behalf with that article. I'll NEVER want a crybaby to speak for me.

[justasportsfan]

I don't know- maybe there's nothing wrong with it. It's just hard for me to believe that people can spend as much (or more) time on the Bills as I do and not have a strong opinion about it. I guess it's a DC thing. We always say there are two things that everyone in this city has: a business card and an opinion.
No offense OP, but you B1tch about the Salvation army guy who did nothing but stand in a corner and ask for donations. Instead of feeling blessed that you aren't in his situation , you instead turn around and say "he made me feel like an idiot"

Another thing, not all of these guys are homeless. Some of them are volunteers to help the poor and you're telling me, "they make me feel like an idiot", did you ever woner you're the one with a problem?

[patmoran2006]

That's probably the longest post you've ever written on here. I'm quite proud.

[tat2dmike77]

Op and Pat i agree with your assesment in certain things.

I will hold my full judgement till after the draft. I know rookies are not gonna make this team better overnight. I also know that the O-Line has more holes in it the a block of swiss cheese. That being said even if the bills did get a few O-lineman in FA i think we would of seen slight improvements but nothing major.

The o-line needs at least a full season to work with each other and know how each guys works and blocks. I know alot of people just want big bodies thrown in there to start blocking. The o-line needs to gel with one and other much like how a QB needs to gel with his recievers.

Everyone needs to get on the same page. Is this a playoff season ahead for the bills highly unlikely. I will admit though 7-9 or 8-8 and i will be happy thats a 2 or 3 game win improvement. I know some of you laugh now saying they won't win 5 games next season. Well your opinion.

The coaching staff well i dunno much about these guys. Hey i'm starting to think that RW and ML just wanted about 98% of what TD brought in gone. Look at what happened to most of TD draft picks and FA signees thier gone. 99% of the coaching staff that was here when TD was here gone as well.

Point is some players seem to be excited about this new regime. So maybe there is some hope. Whats the worse that can happen the bills suck again next season. Yeah that would suck but it would also answer some questions about players.

I love the bills and i will support them no matter how bad they suck. I'm convinced the longer i support them the closer i get to a early grave :lol: All you finfans who bash me cause of my past statement can eat a fat one.

The draft is not far off and trading moulds seems to be imminent. So thats anthor draft pick for the bills. If the right players are chosen and the coaching staff is competent then possibly this team could be good next season 07 or 08.

[justasportsfan]

That's probably the longest post you've ever written on here. I'm quite proud.and you know why I don't, because you have no answer for it. So why waste my time. Your tears bore me so I have to find humor in it.

[patmoran2006]

Op and Pat i agree with your assesment in certain things.

I will hold my full judgement till after the draft. I know rookies are not gonna make this team better overnight. I also know that the O-Line has more holes in it the a block of swiss cheese. That being said even if the bills did get a few O-lineman in FA i think we would of seen slight improvements but nothing major.

The o-line needs at least a full season to work with each other and know how each guys works and blocks. I know alot of people just want big bodies thrown in there to start blocking. The o-line needs to gel with one and other much like how a QB needs to gel with his recievers.

Everyone needs to get on the same page. Is this a playoff season ahead for the bills highly unlikely. I will admit though 7-9 or 8-8 and i will be happy thats a 2 or 3 game win improvement. I know some of you laugh now saying they won't win 5 games next season. Well your opinion.

The coaching staff well i dunno much about these guys. Hey i'm starting to think that RW and ML just wanted about 98% of what TD brought in gone. Look at what happened to most of TD draft picks and FA signees thier gone. 99% of the coaching staff that was here when TD was here gone as well.

Point is some players seem to be excited about this new regime. So maybe there is some hope. Whats the worse that can happen the bills suck again next season. Yeah that would suck but it would also answer some questions about players.

I love the bills and i will support them no matter how bad they suck. I'm convinced the longer i support them the closer i get to a early grave :lol: All you finfans who bash me cause of my past statement can eat a fat one.

The draft is not far off and trading moulds seems to be imminent. So thats anthor draft pick for the bills. If the right players are chosen and the coaching staff is competent then possibly this team could be good next season 07 or 08.

In the CRYSTAL CLEAR Era of Free Agency, EVERY season should potentially be a playoff season for every team.

As for the Den, Ne and Pitt "our line was built through the draft" comparisions.. I'll tell you what.. Why build your line in 3-4 YEARS, when in a year you have the cap room, you can build just as an effective OL. in 3-4 DAYS.

Cleveland's offensive line just became as good or better as any of those teams, about 8 hours into Free AGency.. Or is Bently NOT the best center in football anymore, or does Shaffer suck?

Savage got the memo.

[OpIv37]

No offense OP, but you B1tch about the Salvation army guy who did nothing but stand in a corner and ask for donations. Instead of feeling blessed that you aren't in his situation , you instead turn around and say "he made me feel like an idiot"

Another thing, not all of these guys are homeless. Some of them are volunteers to help the poor and you're telling me, "they make me feel like an idiot", did you ever woner you're the one with a problem?

I never said anything about the salvation army guys being homeless. I always thought they were just people who volunteered, mostly retirees. What I said was that they irritate me because no matter how many you give money to, there's always one more shaking a bell in your face to make you feel like an arrogant ******* for not giving to the poor during the holidays. And anyway let it go- that thread was almost a year and a half ago.

And none of this has anything to do with how the Bills have or haven't improved.

[tat2dmike77]

No bentley doesn't suck i wanted bentley to come in to buffalo as much as the next guy. The fact about bentley not being here is his personal preference. He grew up being a browns fan. I'm sure money played a big part in it as well. The cap being extended did hurt buffalo like you said. I think you said that.

Had bentley come into buffalo would that of fixed our line completely? I don't think so it would of helped in a MAJOR way. My point about the line is that if you look at some of the better lines out there what do they all have in common they have played to together for atleast a couple of seasons. Yes in some cases they have brought in FA upgrades. Even in that case they have had time to play together unlike the carousol that is going on up here.

Should every season be a playoff season yes. I know i have said that every team starts the season at 0-0. I also understand that this team is not as strong as it should be. Now who knows maybe the new regime can work some magic.

Though i will say this there are three stages crawl, walk, run. Right now it seems like this organization is in the crawl phase. We have a new staff and a new staff means new schemes. Which means having to learn a playbook. Give it time hell who knows say the bills go 4-4 by the mid point and then it just clicks and win 6 out of thier last 8 hey it could happen. Game experience is the best experience.

[OpIv37]

Op and Pat i agree with your assesment in certain things.

I will hold my full judgement till after the draft. I know rookies are not gonna make this team better overnight. I also know that the O-Line has more holes in it the a block of swiss cheese. That being said even if the bills did get a few O-lineman in FA i think we would of seen slight improvements but nothing major.

The o-line needs at least a full season to work with each other and know how each guys works and blocks. I know alot of people just want big bodies thrown in there to start blocking. The o-line needs to gel with one and other much like how a QB needs to gel with his recievers.

Everyone needs to get on the same page. Is this a playoff season ahead for the bills highly unlikely. I will admit though 7-9 or 8-8 and i will be happy thats a 2 or 3 game win improvement. I know some of you laugh now saying they won't win 5 games next season. Well your opinion.

The coaching staff well i dunno much about these guys. Hey i'm starting to think that RW and ML just wanted about 98% of what TD brought in gone. Look at what happened to most of TD draft picks and FA signees thier gone. 99% of the coaching staff that was here when TD was here gone as well.

Point is some players seem to be excited about this new regime. So maybe there is some hope. Whats the worse that can happen the bills suck again next season. Yeah that would suck but it would also answer some questions about players.

I love the bills and i will support them no matter how bad they suck. I'm convinced the longer i support them the closer i get to a early grave :lol: All you finfans who bash me cause of my past statement can eat a fat one.

The draft is not far off and trading moulds seems to be imminent. So thats anthor draft pick for the bills. If the right players are chosen and the coaching staff is competent then possibly this team could be good next season 07 or 08.


I won't be truly happy unless we win the SB, which aint happening this year. That being said, a 2-3 game improvement and being in the playoff hunt into November or- dare I say it- December would be a successful season IMO.

[justasportsfan]

, there's always one more shaking a bell in your face to make you feel like an arrogant ******* for not giving to the poor during the holidays

And none of this has anything to do with how the Bills have or haven't improved.It's got a lot to do with the way you think . Sorry to bring that up but I wanted to make a point. Not everyone looks at the team blindly , we just don't constantly harp on the negatives like you do. Not everyone is a half empty glass like you are . So forgive us if we attack your negative posts.

[OpIv37]

It's got a lot to do with the way you think . Sorry to bring that up but I wanted to make a point. Not everyone looks at the team blindly , we just don't constantly harp on the negatives like you do. Not everyone is a half empty glass like you are . So forgive us if we attack your negative posts.

If you or other people don't like my negative posts, fine. I'm not running for Billszone Prom King. But what I'm not seeing are coherent responses. I get a lot of "stop whining" and not enough "you shouldn't be whining because...."

People attack the tone of my posts but rarely refute the substance, which is what confuses me. I think some people disagree because they don't like what I'm saying rather than because they have an opposing viewpoint.

[justasportsfan]

People attack the tone of my posts but rarely refute the substance, which is what confuses me. I think some people disagree because they don't like what I'm saying rather than because they have an opposing viewpoint. when it get's constant, it get's old. Now, I'm sure when we complain about your negativity, it get's old for you too.


I will deal with your negativity like I always have. You in turn will have to deal with our constant whining about your whining. Fair enough?

[OpIv37]

fair enough.

[justasportsfan]

I'm frustrated because I see teams like the Jets and the Dolphins making moves to improve their teams, while the Bills do very little. Let's take a look to see where we've improved from last season, where we've regressed, and where we've broke even:

Note: this is long but there's a conclusion at the end.

1. Coaching: Face it, the coaching staff was a disaster last year. However, different isn't always good. Fewell has no experience as DC and Jauron has never been a winner. Fairchild ran an offense that is not consistent with what Jauron has done, and some say that Martz had a lot of control over the offense (although I'm not sure I buy that because the Rams offense played about the same when Martz was recuperating). I think I have to give this one an incomplete- its just too early to judge.

2. D-line: Even. We got Tripplett but lost Adams (and his attitude problem). We still only have one starting caliber DT. Re-signed Denney- why?

3. O-line: Regressed. We added Fowler, which is an improvement over Teague. We lost Mike Williams, which is addition by subtraction. But we still don't have enough O-linemen and the only Peters and Fowler are really starting caliber at this point.

4. Running backs: McGahee seems to be taking the off-season more seriously, so I'll say we improved here. Still would like to see a better back-up than Shaud.

5. Receivers: Even. Davis added, Reed re-signed, Moulds a ?. Davis isn't as big a name as Moulds, but I bet he could match Moulds' paltry numbers from the last few seasons.

6. DB's: Milloy gone, no replacement named. Clements re-signed despite an awful season. I'll go with even here, although an argument could be made for regression.

7. TE's: Royal is an upgrade over Campbell. Everett should be ready to play. Definite improvement here.

8. LB's. Spikes back, Crowell signed- improvement. Side note: Fletcher and Posey are old and it would be nice to have a replacement in mind, but certainly not high priority given the team's other needs.

9. QB. Even. Nall just adds a ? to the mix.

Conclusion: We improved at LB and TE. However, the OL is in worse shape than it was last year, the DL is at best even, and the coaching staff could go either way. To me, that shows that 2 of the 3 biggest problems from last season have yet to be addressed completely, and the one that has been addressed may or may not be an improvement. I'm irritated at how the Jets and Fish are upgrading while the Bills stand idly by and seem content with the horrid product we had on the field last season.

So, where is anyone finding any hope for this upcoming season? I just don't see it.

Let me find something postive from that post.



TGIF!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :irule:

[Mr. Pink]

I love how we're whining because we don't take the homer-esque approach of just believing the same recycled BS we get year after year. Just because we think critically of the Bills moves and their direction, which yes, seems to be the completely wrong way doesn't make any of us less fans than you. If you want to believe that ALL IS WELL and we're doing the right things by all means. But when you look at the bigger picture of things and see teams that are bringing in top-notch talent to try and improve their product on the field, it's kind of difficult to see the silver lining in all of this.

[OpIv37]

Let me find something postive from that post.



TGIF!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :irule:

Please actually READ the post and don't let your preconceived notion of me get in the way. Yes, the post was generally negative. However I did say good things about Fowler, Crowell, Spikes, Royal, Everett and McGahee. If you didn't see it, you're blinded by your bias.

[justasportsfan]

Please actually READ the post and don't let your preconceived notion of me get in the way. Yes, the post was generally negative. However I did say good things about Fowler, Crowell, Spikes, Royal, Everett and McGahee. If you didn't see it, you're blinded by your bias.


Uh, I just said thank god it's friday. I'm happy about it. Is there anything wrong about the weekend being here? Did you find anything to negative about it being the weekend?

[OpIv37]

Uh, I just said thank god it's friday. I'm happy about it. Is there anything wrong about the weekend being here? Did you find anything to negative about it being the weekend?

the only thing wrong with the weekend is that there's no football. But I thought you were implying there was nothing positive at all in my post- if you weren't, my bad.

[justasportsfan]

the only thing wrong with the weekend is that there's no football. But I thought you were implying there was nothing positive at all in my post- if you weren't, my bad.I only picked you post because it was the longest. Relax. It's friday. Have a beer while watching NFLE.

[OpIv37]

I only picked you post because it was the longest. Relax. It's friday. Have a beer while watching NFLE.

First I'm gonna watch the NCAA tourney- my school's still in it (Mason).

However, i will readily admit that I didn't pay attention to the team until they started doing well in the tourney.

[Iehoshua]

watching NFLE.
:snooze:

[justasportsfan]

However, i will readily admit that I didn't pay attention to the team until they started doing well in the tourney.Oh no you didn't just give me future material. If I can remember the Salvation thread , I will remember this. I have a pornographic I mean photographic memory.

[OpIv37]

Oh no you didn't just give me future material. If I can remember the Salvation thread , I will remember this. I have a pornographic I mean photographic memory.

I wouldn't do that for just any team- I just don't really follow college hoops. It's just that when I'm going to a school that's doing well, it sort of makes sense to follow.

At least I admit to it instead of pretending I was the team's biggest fan, even back when they sucked.