"In Marv We Trust"

[patmoran2006]

If that's the case, as is so often said on here.

If Marv does trade Losman and drafts his own rookie for his own regime.

Is it still going to be "In Marv we trust." Are you still going to trust him? Even if you dont agree with him?

[Mr. Miyagi]

Damn right. :up:

[justasportsfan]

Yep. With this new staff JP would be starting from scratch anyways. So if we indeed get Cutler it's the same. I feel bad for JP though. Wasted talent.

[BAM]

Absolutely.

We're starting over anyways... why not?

[patmoran2006]

I would trust him even more, becuase it would show he has a set of balls on him the size of grapefruits to trade Losman after only 8 starts.

[ICE74129]

Drafting a QB means a 3-4 year process, not a 1-2. We can't get lionart and even if we did, there are serious issues about arm strength. Cutler will be good, Maybe.

That is the deal, throw out a 2 year guy that hasn't really had a shot yet, and bring in a Rookie? Friggin Stupidity. If it were 'win now' then Drew Brees or Dante Cullpepper would be a Bill.

We haven't built the steelers team yet so no Rookie is going to pull a rothlesburger.

[The_Philster]

I don't have blind faith in anyone...giving up on JP so quickly would be a black mark in my book

[ICE74129]

I don't have blind faith in anyone...giving up on JP so quickly would be a black mark in my book

Give up on JP this fast and how willing will a Lionart or Cuttler be to sign with us? I know if I were his agent you would have to guarantee a TON of his contract. If my boy sits, he is still going to get paid WELL. Lionart and Cuttler are going to look to play by 07 at the latest. They won't be willing to go through the BS JP has. I am honestly suprised we haven't heard from JP's agent. I bet we do if he isn't starting this year.

I agree though, you just give up on JP at this point, it makes the org look even worse than it does now.

[patmoran2006]

Typos are one thing, God knows we all make them, especially on a message board. Hell, I said "Bill" Shanahan once instead of Mike.

But it's not Lionart.. His name is Matt Leinart.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Hey Pat check out my new avatar. :D

[YardRat]

How willing will Leinart or Cutler be to sign if JP's kept on the squad? If they're looking to start by '07, why would either want to be around for JP to go through another year of growing pains?

Keeping JP and drafting either one sends the message "we're not sure...maybe our starter's going to be you, maybe it's going to be the other guy we drafted in the first a couple of years ago."

Cutting JP would tell Cutler or Leinert "he's gone...now you're the man."

[patmoran2006]

Hey Pat check out my new avatar. :D
hahhaha

[John Doe]

If Marv were to shoot the pope or bomb a child care center, I would really have my doubts about him. I think that we all would.

[Mr. Miyagi]

If Marv were to shoot the pope or bomb a child care center, I would really have my doubts about him. I think that we all would.
If Marv were to shoot the pope or bomb a child care center, I'm sure they deserved it. :up:

[OpIv37]

If I disagree with the moves Marv is making, I will say so, but I will retain hope that he knows what he's doing until we start losing.

If Marv ditches JP, so be it. JP hasn't had a complete shot, but he hasn't shown anything spectacular. He's a holdover from the old regime- one that has a terrible history with QB's.

That being said, if we get JP's replacement from our 1st round draft pick, I will be disappointed that neither line was addressed through FA or our best draft choice.

[madness]

JP who?

[Marvelous]

Damn right. :up:

I second that! Damn right! In Marv we trust.

Are the anti Marv fans from the late 80's/early 90's era?

[Buffalogic]

Marv would of course still have my allegiance after a move like this, but I would definately be opposed to it.

JP played in 8 games and played mediocral. It's way too early to give up on this kid, I mean look what happened to Brett Favre. Sorry I don't want that happening to my bills.

[ICE74129]

How willing will Leinart or Cutler be to sign if JP's kept on the squad? If they're looking to start by '07, why would either want to be around for JP to go through another year of growing pains?

Keeping JP and drafting either one sends the message "we're not sure...maybe our starter's going to be you, maybe it's going to be the other guy we drafted in the first a couple of years ago."

Cutting JP would tell Cutler or Leinert "he's gone...now you're the man."

And it tells them you have 8 games to prove yourself. If you can't do it in one year we give up on you and find someone else.

[patmoran2006]

The bottom line is.. IF you support the method that Marv is putting together to build a team, IF he decides he doesnt want any QB starting on this current roster and goes fishing on draft day, you have to support that too, even if you dont like it.

ya'll know my feelings.. I think if we took vernon davis he would make JP 100x better.. But I'm well aware we dont "need" a te..

If Marv took Cutler or Young for that matter, I wouldnt be upset.. It wouldnt be a rushed decision, he's had plenty of time now to think about it.

[The_Philster]

Acknowledging that free agency isn't a cure-all by throwing gobs of money at name players the way Washington does doesn't mean that you agree with everything...that's an arrogant statement

[John Doe]

ya'll know my feelings.. I think if we took vernon davis he would make JP 100x better.. But I'm well aware we dont "need" a te..



If Marv were to draft Vernon Davis, would you declare him the greatest talent evaluator of all time and a GM savant?

[ICE74129]

If Marv were to draft Vernon Davis, would you declare him the greatest talent evaluator of all time and a GM savant?

What we need are linemen on both sides of the ball. Not another guy going out catching balls. Football 101

[John Doe]

What we need are linemen on both sides of the ball. Not another guy going out catching balls. Football 101

But, if drafting Vernon Davis makes JP 100x better just think of the possibilities:

A QB rating of 200

Enshinement in the hall of fame

7-8 superbowl victories

Who needs linemen when you have that?

[justasportsfan]

I don't know what Marv and Dick are trying to do. I agree that he's brought in people who are unproven (except for Tripplet) but have "potential". I will reserve my judgement until I see it on the field.

As for JP , he wasn't even close to KH in reading defenses which is why even Kelly says he needs to make better judgements on the field. Then again only experience can fix that.

[patmoran2006]

What we need are linemen on both sides of the ball. Not another guy going out catching balls. Football 101

Football 101 huh..

In Drew Brees' first two years as starter, he completed 525 of 882 passes (59.5%) with 28 TD's and 31 Int's. the Chargers record those two years were 12-20.

Antonio Gates emerged in 2004 and over the past two seasons, has caught 170 passes for 2065 yards and 23 TDs.. YES, a tight end.

Coincidentally (?), Brees' numbers over those two years was 585 of 900 (65%) with 51 TD's and 22 Ints. their record over those two years was 21-11.

"Another guy out there catching balls". Coming from you, that's to be expected. A great TE makes a good QB GREAT. Vernon Davis not only makes Losman better, he opens up lanes for Lee Evans (or is Josh Reed going do that), he makes a defense respect play action and he prevents teams from totally stacking up on stopping Willis.

BTW, San Diego has how many Pro Bowl linemen again? For that matter, how many of their linemen have you even HEARD of?

The Bills have at least 6 other draft picks to address the line.

Football "101"

[justasportsfan]

Football 101 huh..

In Drew Brees' first two years as starter, he completed 525 of 882 passes (59.5%) with 28 TD's and 31 Int's. the Chargers record those two years were 12-20.

Antonio Gates emerged in 2004 and over the past two seasons, has caught 170 passes for 2065 yards and 23 TDs.. YES, a tight end.

Coincidentally (?), Brees' numbers over those two years was 585 of 900 (65%) with 51 TD's and 22 Ints. their record over those two years was 21-11.

"Another guy out there catching balls". Coming from you, that's to be expected. A great TE makes a good QB GREAT. Vernon Davis not only makes Losman better, he opens up lanes for Lee Evans (or is Josh Reed going do that), he makes a defense respect play action and he prevents teams from totally stacking up on stopping Willis.

BTW, San Diego has how many Pro Bowl linemen again? For that matter, how many of their linemen have you even HEARD of?

The Bills have at least 6 other draft picks to address the line.

Football "101"
You are partly right tbut hey also had Houck as their OL coach. Just like MCnally had no star linemen when the giants went to the sb . That no name OL made Kerry Collins look better than he did. It also helps that Brees had the best RB in the NFL.

[patmoran2006]

My point being OL doesnt HAVE to be the first draft pick.. bTW, who outside of Brick at OL is WORTHY of being a #8 pick?

Do I think our OL is good enough right now to compete. HELL NO.. They need at LEAST two new linemen. They can get a good guard AND tackle in round three to develop.. They can go DT in round two.

Willis has all the ability to be a GREAT RB.

I hate the TE "label". Shannon Sharpe made that ENTIRE denver team better. Without him in fact, I doubt Denver wins two SB's. GREAT TE's are rare, but when you get a shot at one I think you have to take it.. Its not just his numbers (which will probably be sick btw) its what he does for the rest of the offense.

[justasportsfan]

My point being OL doesnt HAVE to be the first draft pick.. bTW, who outside of Brick at OL is WORTHY of being a #8 pick?

Do I think our OL is good enough right now to compete. HELL NO.. They need at LEAST two new linemen. They can get a good guard AND tackle in round three to develop.. They can go DT in round two.

Willis has all the ability to be a GREAT RB.

I hate the TE "label". Shannon Sharpe made that ENTIRE denver team better. Without him in fact, I doubt Denver wins two SB's. GREAT TE's are rare, but when you get a shot at one I think you have to take it.. Its not just his numbers (which will probably be sick btw) its what he does for the rest of the offense.now you made that #8 point clear, I agree. I' don't even want Ngata at 8 if Huff, Hawk or Davis are there at 8.

[patmoran2006]

Ngata would be of help of course, but there are other players who can help us MORE, not just for 2006 for but for a long time after that.

[rschepise]

It would be absolutely insane to take Vernon Davis with the 8th pick. We keep blaming Dononhoe for the fact that he was totally inept when it came to addressing the lines. The time address our lines is now! If we put this off another year it will further prolong our playoff drought. Anyone other than Winston Justice or Haloti Ngata, at the 8 pick for the Bills, would be insanity. If Mario Williams or D'Brick fell to eight, great! (Even though I highly doubt it)

Gates has looked amazing the last couple years and how many superbowls have they won? 0

Our current Superbowl champion is a team that has a great o-line, a fast aggressive defense and consistency at the quaterback position. We need to build around J.P. in order to be successful.

And this B.S. about trading J.P. and drafting Cutler is the dumbest sh&t I have ever heard. Let's give up on our first round pick after eight games and trade him for a 5th round pick! (Sarcasm) Give Marv more credit than that, please!

PAT, GET A REAL JOB!!!

[patmoran2006]

Get a real job?
LOL, ok.. I work for one of the 10 largest Mortgage Companies in the world.. but I'll work on getting a real job for you.

And Bills brass is SO confident in JP they signed another QB and promised him a chance to start...

I NEVER said we SHOULD draft a QB. I said we SHOULD draft Vernon Davis if he's on the board, learn how to read.

[rschepise]

I never said you said we should draft a QB. Maybe you should learn how to read.

I just think that your speculation thus far has been less than stellar. You made a claim that you believe Marv has hinted the end for J.P. in Buffalo and that he will draft a QB. You also feel we should draft Vernon Davis. An opinion that I totally disagree with. But it is an opinion and I respect it.

BUT THIS TRADE JP LOSMAN PROPOGANDA HAS TO STOP!! What sense would it make to trade our first round QB, a guy that has a vast amount of potential and has not been given a chance yet, and start all over with another rookie?

[Philagape]

I didn't trust Marv as GM to begin with. He was a great coach, but this is a different job which really doesn't give much opportunity for Marv's strengths as a coach. Marv inherited Kelly, Reed and Smith, and Polian filled out the rest. Marv was great at getting the most out of lesser talents, and he had a sound coaching philosophy. Unless Marv gives locker-room speeches and dictates DJ's philosophy, all he brings to the job of GM is his name. What he did as a coach is irrelevant.
If Marv dumps JP and JP has a better career than whoever we draft, I'll be outraged and shower Marv with the same contempt and scorn as I have TD. I think it would be a bad move and I don't care if it's Vince Lombardi making it.

[Philagape]

I also think it's absurd to say JP and a rookie would be on equal ground because we have a new system. No one can say 2 years in the NFL doesn't make a difference regardless of the system. Plus I think a system simpler than MM's mindscramblers would benefit JP.

[patmoran2006]

I didn't trust Marv as GM to begin with. He was a great coach, but this is a different job which really doesn't give much opportunity for Marv's strengths as a coach. Marv inherited Kelly, Reed and Smith, and Polian filled out the rest. Marv was great at getting the most out of lesser talents, and he had a sound coaching philosophy. Unless Marv gives locker-room speeches and dictates DJ's philosophy, all he brings to the job of GM is his name. What he did as a coach is irrelevant.
If Marv dumps JP and JP has a better career than whoever we draft, I'll be outraged and shower Marv with the same contempt and scorn as I have TD. I think it would be a bad move and I don't care if it's Vince Lombardi making it.

Well said

[patmoran2006]

It would be absolutely insane to take Vernon Davis with the 8th pick. We keep blaming Dononhoe for the fact that he was totally inept when it came to addressing the lines. The time address our lines is now! If we put this off another year it will further prolong our playoff drought. Anyone other than Winston Justice or Haloti Ngata, at the 8 pick for the Bills, would be insanity. If Mario Williams or D'Brick fell to eight, great! (Even though I highly doubt it)

Gates has looked amazing the last couple years and how many superbowls have they won? 0

Our current Superbowl champion is a team that has a great o-line, a fast aggressive defense and consistency at the quaterback position. We need to build around J.P. in order to be successful.

And this B.S. about trading J.P. and drafting Cutler is the dumbest sh&t I have ever heard. Let's give up on our first round pick after eight games and trade him for a 5th round pick! (Sarcasm) Give Marv more credit than that, please!

PAT, GET A REAL JOB!!!

Since you like to talk about Pittsburgh so much, how many OL'men have they taken in the FIRST round of the draft this century? One.. Kendall Simmons, and he was the 30th overall pick.

They've went SS, QB and oh.. TE first round last three years.

Newsflash, the draft is SEVEN ROUNDS, not one.. You take a potential FRANCHISE player with your first pick..... If Marv levy is any good as a talent evaluator, he'll find plenty of linemen in rounds 2-4, with FOUR picks..

[rschepise]

Since you like to talk about Pittsburgh so much, how many OL'men have they taken in the FIRST round of the draft this century? One.. Kendall Simmons, and he was the 30th overall pick.

They've went SS, QB and oh.. TE first round last three years.

Newsflash, the draft is SEVEN ROUNDS, not one.. You take a potential FRANCHISE player with your first pick..... If Marv levy is any good as a talent evaluator, he'll find plenty of linemen in rounds 2-4, with FOUR picks..

Pittsburgh also has never had the amount of holes we have on both sides of the line. We still need Two quality DT's, a starting LDE, Two starting guards and a starting left tackle

An upgrade at S and TE are just a luxary at this point. We need to re-sign Ron Edwards and draft Haloti Ngata with the first pick. In Rounds two and three we need to drart a LT, a G, a S.

With the rest of FA we have to somehow get another quality guard and a starting LDE. Hopefully we can use Eric Moulds to get one of the two.

[ICE74129]

now you made that #8 point clear, I agree. I' don't even want Ngata at 8 if Huff, Hawk or Davis are there at 8.
So bypass taking the top DT (Ngata or Bunkley) to take a backup Safety? We have our starters at CB and safety, the DC has already addressed this. LB? we have FOUR starting LB's already. the DC has said 'LB is the strength of this team'.

Address the needs and address Football 101 'The game is won in the trenches'. Draft for both lines with rounds 1-3.

People in general ***** that the lines suck, but then want TE's, Safetys and God knows what with the #8 pick.

[SquishDaFish]

I agree with ICE about the lines but...If we dont trade down and either...Mario,Brick,Hawk or Davis are there we have to take one of them! Mario,Davis,Brick,Hawk in that order for me.

[Michael82]

Let's see.....last 2 drafts first round pick used to select a QB. Nice. That would be great for our organization. :bf1: :ill:

I'm already annoyed with the moves that Marv has made so far, if he gives up on our rookie QB after only 9 ****ing games, the honeymoon is over. I'm done! :mad:

When you draft a QB 2 out of the last 3 years with your first round pick, thats the kind of thing that sets a team back. Then dont forget about wasting the 2nd round pick last year on a small speedy WR. :ill:

[Michael82]

I don't have blind faith in anyone...giving up on JP so quickly would be a black mark in my book
Excellent Post! :bf1:

[ICE74129]

Let's see.....last 2 drafts first round pick used to select a QB. Nice. That would be great for our organization. :bf1: :ill:

I'm already annoyed with the moves that Marv has made so far, if he gives up on our rookie QB after only 9 ****ing games, the honeymoon is over. I'm done! :mad:

When you draft a QB 2 out of the last 3 years with your first round pick, thats the kind of thing that sets a team back. Then dont forget about wasting the 2nd round pick last year on a small speedy WR. :ill:

Awww come on now Mikey, Don't you want to spend ANOTHER first round pick on a QB? I mean hell we are so good at it by now, surely we will hit the jackpot someday. (sarcasm off)

[patmoran2006]

Awww come on now Mikey, Don't you want to spend ANOTHER first round pick on a QB? I mean hell we are so good at it by now, surely we will hit the jackpot someday. (sarcasm off)

"ANOTHER" first round pick on a QB. Lets see, over the past 20+ years I count TWO QB's the bills took in the first round.. One was JP Losman in 1994.. The other one was 21 years BEFORE that in 1983..

His name was Jim Kelly.

We've drafted TWO QB's in the first round since before 1983, so how "are we so good at it by now?" In Marv you trust, no? So what are you worried about if he was to trade Losman and draft a QB?