QB carousel never works

[X-Era]

A jauron led Bears team juggled QB's between Grossman and the other guy and then this year the Bears did it again with Grossman and Orton. It turned out their rookie Orton put them in the playoffs yet they didnt stick with him.

The Bengals stunk up the joint while juggling between Kitna and Palmer, once they settled on Palmer, they went to the playoffs.

The Giants juggled between Eli and Warner, once they settled on Manning, they were in contention for the playoffs

The Lions juggled Garcia and Harrington and STILL suck azz. Once they get a real QB and stick with him, they will be fine.

This is not a post trying to convince anyone that Holcomb/JP/or other should be the starter. Its only to say that we need to pick the guy and STICK WITH IT!!!!!!!!! The carousel never works.

[Iehoshua]

In Jauron's tenure it was Shane Matthews and Jim Miller in Chicago.

I can't think of a duo with more combined pro-bowl trips!
:D

:ill:

[SABURZFAN]

we gave up enough to get losman.give him every chance to earn the starting job.if we had an OL,he wouldn't look like a squirrel in traffic.

[ICE74129]

It cracks me up how some say we need a probowl QB and then say draft one of the top three guys. Funny, I don't think any of them have seen one snap at the pro level. Last time I checked SEVERAL had JP listed as a first round QB when he came out. In fact GB wanted him, and so did St. Louis

[Forward_Lateral]

First, Grossman was the starting QB, then he got HURT. When he became healthy again, he got his job back.
Second, The Bengals were trying to let Palmer develop instead of just firing him in there. I'd say that move turned out pretty good.
Third, The Giants did the same thing as the Bengals.
4th, Harrington wasn't a "rookie" QB, he was a 4 year vet. He sucked several games in a row. This is not even remotely close to the other situations. If Garcia had've been healthy, he would've been the day 1 starter.

[FlyingDutchman]

First, Grossman was the starting QB, then he got HURT. When he became healthy again, he got his job back.
Second, The Bengals were trying to let Palmer develop instead of just firing him in there. I'd say that move turned out pretty good.
Third, The Giants did the same thing as the Bengals.
4th, Harrington wasn't a "rookie" QB, he was a 4 year vet. He sucked several games in a row. This is not even remotely close to the other situations. If Garcia had've been healthy, he would've been the day 1 starter.

Exactly. None of these situations are anywhere near ours. Also with Detroit, they didnt juggle, Harrington played the whole year and sucked and finally Garcia was healthy so they said screw Harrington. There is no correlation between our situation and any of these teams

[BillsNick]

I think the one thing that we can be sure of here, is that Joey Harrington definitely sucks. :snicker:

[patmoran2006]

It cracks me up how some say we need a probowl QB and then say draft one of the top three guys. Funny, I don't think any of them have seen one snap at the pro level. Last time I checked SEVERAL had JP listed as a first round QB when he came out. In fact GB wanted him, and so did St. Louis

Plenty said the same about Jim Druckenmiller.. how'd that work out for the 49ers?

I dont think Marv gives a **** if JP is a first rounder or an undrafted FA... and I sure as hell doubt he cares what other teams were interested in him when he was in college..

[patmoran2006]

Exactly. None of these situations are anywhere near ours. Also with Detroit, they didnt juggle, Harrington played the whole year and sucked and finally Garcia was healthy so they said screw Harrington. There is no correlation between our situation and any of these teams

Right.. but there is a correlation between our situation and the situation that the Bears had when.. Dick Jauron was the coach.

MIller. Matthews.. Don't forget Chris Chandler either.

It was a circus there, totally.. They had the one great 13-3 year when they caught lightening in a bottle (plus a really sick defense).. Outside of that, those chicago teams sucked.

[Mr. Pink]

Plenty said the same about Jim Druckenmiller.. how'd that work out for the 49ers?

I dont think Marv gives a **** if JP is a first rounder or an undrafted FA... and I sure as hell doubt he cares what other teams were interested in him when he was in college..

Wasn't Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, Browning Nagel, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Dan McGwire, Kyle Boller etc. first round picks too? Can't miss prospects? Yeah they all were and we know how each and every one of them has turned out. It doesn't matter where you're drafted, what teams had interest in you before you were drafted. What matters is your ability to win games and lead your team.

About the QB carousel idea....The 2000 Ravens seemed to have no problem winning a SB while juggling two QBs. In fact that year Tony Banks threw more passes than Trent Dilfer. Last year the Steelers played 3 different QBs in route to winning the SB. The 2001 Patriots won when Bledsoe went down with injury and who came in against the Steelers to help propel the Patsies to the SB? Bledsoe. When McNair went down with injury in 1999, Neil O'Donnell came in and played better than McNair in helping the Titans reach the playoffs. Point being, having more than one QB start games during the year isn't always a bad thing, however you need a competent player to come in and perform the relief duty.

[Forward_Lateral]

Right.. but there is a correlation between our situation and the situation that the Bears had when.. Dick Jauron was the coach.

MIller. Matthews.. Don't forget Chris Chandler either.

It was a circus there, totally.. They had the one great 13-3 year when they caught lightening in a bottle (plus a really sick defense).. Outside of that, those chicago teams sucked.

Do you have cement for brains? THOSE QBS ALL SUCKED, and were ALL injured at one point or another in that season. You should do some research before posting this kind of garbage.

[patmoran2006]

Do you have cement for brains? THOSE QBS ALL SUCKED, and were ALL injured at one point or another in that season. You should do some research before posting this kind of garbage.


And what gives you ANY INDICATION so far that any of the 3 QB's we have do NOT suck?

And if I remember correctly, these Bills QB aren't ironmen THEMSELVES.. Losman missed basically all of 2004 with an injury, and did he miss time in 2005 for injuries as well? (though I'm sure Mularkey blew it out of proportion).. Holcomb got hurt against KC... Craig Nall didnt get hurt.. Perhaps because he didnt throw a single pass the entire season

[Forward_Lateral]

And what gives you ANY INDICATION so far that any of the 3 QB's we have do NOT suck?

And if I remember correctly, these Bills QB aren't ironmen THEMSELVES.. Losman missed basically all of 2004 with an injury, and did he miss time in 2005 for injuries as well? (though I'm sure Mularkey blew it out of proportion).. Holcomb got hurt against KC... Craig Nall didnt get hurt.. Perhaps because he didnt throw a single pass the entire season

Yeah, and is it Jauron's fault those QBs got hurt, and subsequently sucked? No. Will it be HIS fault if JP, Kelly or Nall get hurt? No. Saying a coach plays QB Carosel because QBs get hurt is idiotic. If Dick goes with a QB out of camp, and the QB sucks and costs the Bills the first few games, you'll be the first one piling on and calling for a change, so don't feed me your "pick a QB and stick with him" BS.

[patmoran2006]

Yeah, and is it Jauron's fault those QBs got hurt, and subsequently sucked? No. Will it be HIS fault if JP, Kelly or Nall get hurt? No. Saying a coach plays QB Carosel because QBs get hurt is idiotic. If Dick goes with a QB out of camp, and the QB sucks and costs the Bills the first few games, you'll be the first one piling on and calling for a change, so don't feed me your "pick a QB and stick with him" BS.

No I wont be.. Because I am calling for a change NOW before they even go to camp.. Injuries or not.

Is there a rule that says you can be a Bills fan ONLY If you are on board with JP Losman as the future? I may be of a small minority, but I suspect that JP Losman will NEVER be a good QB as a Buffalo Bill due to a lot that's already happened, some his fault, most not.

[Forward_Lateral]

No I wont be.. Because I am calling for a change NOW before they even go to camp.. Injuries or not.

Is there a rule that says you can be a Bills fan ONLY If you are on board with JP Losman as the future? I may be of a small minority, but I suspect that JP Losman will NEVER be a good QB as a Buffalo Bill due to a lot that's already happened, some his fault, most not.

So, if JP wins the job in camp, then sucks for the first 5 games, you would be calling for a change? You just said a few posts back that playing QB Carousel doesn't work.

[patmoran2006]

If Young or Cutler are drafted, I think that puts an end to having to worry about how JP plays for the first five games.

[patmoran2006]

So, if JP wins the job in camp, then sucks for the first 5 games, you would be calling for a change? You just said a few posts back that playing QB Carousel doesn't work.

that sounds a little too Rob Johnson/Doug Flutie'ish for my liking.

[Forward_Lateral]

If Young or Cutler are drafted, I think that puts an end to having to worry about how JP plays for the first five games.

Way to dodge the question. What if Nall or Holcomb is named QB after camp and either of them suck and cost the Bills a few wins, will you be calling for their head? Or will you "stick with them".

As for Cutler or Young, or any QB in the draft, you dont' KNOW if the QB is going to pan out. QB's in the first round are the biggest gamble there is. You have about a 50/50 chance of getting it right, or the guy being a bust.

[Forward_Lateral]

that sounds a little too Rob Johnson/Doug Flutie'ish for my liking.

:rofl: Another TOTALLY different situation. RJ got hurt (if you remember) and Flutie stepped in, and led the team to the playoffs. He was the starter for the ENTIRE following season, except for the last game when RJ played, and the playoffs following that. That was not a "carousel" that was a "controversy". RJ and FLutie didn't start every other game, or every few games, the starter was the same for most of the season, until Wade made that move in the Playoffs.

[patmoran2006]

the RJ/Flutie comparison refers to the Buffalo Bills locker room. Just as it got last year with Holcomb and Losman.

Say what you will about our other holes and about the ability of Cutler or Young.. but if you see a Vince Young jersey hanging in the locker room at OBD, there wont be a person in that locker room doubting who the QB of the football team is.

and as an added bonus, Ice promised he'd stop being a Bills fan if we draft him.

[realdealryan]

"A jauron led Bears team juggled QB's between Grossman and the other guy and then this year the Bears did it again with Grossman and Orton. It turned out their rookie Orton put them in the playoffs yet they didnt stick with him."


Umm...the defense wasn't more of a catalyst than Orton?

PS. What an insight- we have a QB issue.

[patmoran2006]

I'll be the very first person to admit I'm not sold on Marv as our GM, I did and still think to some degree at this position he's a little in over his head.

But his intelligence isn't to be doubted, and if Marv knows one thing its that a QB issue is garbage for the entire team and the locker room.

Anyone who thinks that if Cutler or Young are on the board at 8 and Marv wont at least seriously consider them just because Losman was a first-round pick from two years ago (which has nothing to do with Marv) and we signed "Craig Nall" is clinically insane. Signing Nall makes me think he'll consider a QB should one fall even MORE than before.

[realdealryan]

I hope that signing Nall signals something different. If KH wanted a shot but Marv knows he's not the future of the organization, I'd bring in a guy who you can count on for the next couple years (at least) to know the system but who doesn't exactly mind riding the pine a bit. Frank Reich, Jr. You can figure out if JP can cut it or if KH will get some time. And if Nall surprises you and starts, even better. Or maybe we are banking our franchise on him. What do I know? I sell furniture.

[X-Era]

that sounds a little too Rob Johnson/Doug Flutie'ish for my liking.

Interesting, the Bills QB carousel. How did that work out?

[thejetfan]

There is one situation where it did work and that was with Dilfer and Banks for the Ravens in 2000...

But I do understand what you're saying and since the QB touches the ball on every play he can't be continuously pulled and put back in or the offense loses it's momentum every time.

I personally don't want a QB now for the Jets because we have a lot of other needs to fill and we should build a solid team and then throw our franchise QB into it (Someone say Big Ben?) where it's very easy for him to grow and mature into a pro style QB.

Losman was a first rounder just 2 years ago and you should give him one last chance before you cut ties with him.