The Most UnPopular Yet True Post In BZ History

[patmoran2006]

The Ultimate Pat Moran bash post.. I really don’t care, but this isn’t opinion, its FACT.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
Let’s examine SOME of the Bills weaker spots last season and what’s went on around the league since March 10.
<o:p> </o:p>
Center: (Lose Teague)
The Browns get LeCharles Bentley
<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Carolina</st1:place></st1:City> gets Justin Hartwig
Titans get Kevin Mawae
Bills get “Melvin Fowler” all 8 starts of him.
<o:p> </o:p>
Safety (lose Milloy)
Skins’ get Adam Archuleta
Chargers get Marlon McCree
Titans get Chris Hope
Rams get Corey Chavous
Bills get “Matt Bowen” who hasn’t started in two years, but is a cover two safety.
<o:p> </o:p>
WR (Losing Moulds)
Skins’ get Antwaan Randle El AND Brandon Lloyd
Browns get Joe Jerevicous
Titans get David Givens (worse team with less cap room, see a pattern)
Cowboys get Terrel Owens
Panthers get MeShawn Johnson
49ers get Antonio Bryant
Bills get Andre Davis and resign Josh Reed (who had four YEARS to prove he could start)
<o:p> </o:p>
DE
<st1:City><st1:place>Atlanta</st1:place></st1:City> gets John Abraham
Eagles get Darren Howard
Texans get Anthony Weaver
Bills “resign” Ryan Denney
<o:p> </o:p>
QB
Fins get Duante Culpepper
<st1:City><st1:place>Detroit</st1:place></st1:City> gets Josh McCown
Saints get Drew Brees
Bills get “Craig Nall”
<o:p> </o:p>
Tackle (you remember that spot that continuously gets your QB killed when they suck)
Browns get Kevin Schaffer
Cowboys get Jeff Fabini
Bills resigned Greg Jerman
<o:p> </o:p>
We did sign Larry Tripplett and lost Sam Adams at DT (Push at best)
<o:p> </o:p>
Oh yeah , we did attempt to sign a pair of RFA’s and went 0-for-2 in the process.
<o:p> </o:p>
Now you tell me in what , way, shape or form how in the world did this BUFFALO BILLS football team in any way IMPROVE over a 5-11 team that was already bad to begin with.
<o:p> </o:p>
Anyone who thinks the draft was the ONLY route to get better should not expect a winning season for a very long time. I didn’t expect us to get after EVERY big-name free agent, but this is a joke. Signing 2-3 impact players shouldn’t be too much for a Bills fan to ask for, a team that was MORE than $14 million under the cap WITH Moulds on the roster.
<o:p> </o:p>
Teams with LESS cap room (<st1:State><st1:place>tenn</st1:place></st1:State>, dallas, <st1:City><st1:place>Miami</st1:place></st1:City>) did more to improve than we did.
Teams with WORSE records (<st1:City><st1:place>Detroit</st1:place></st1:City>, <st1:place><st1:City>Green Bay</st1:City>, <st1:State>Tennessee</st1:State></st1:place> (again) did more to improve than we did.)
<o:p> </o:p>
You can hate on me all you want.. You can defend Marv Levy and staff til the end of the earth.
<o:p> </o:p>
The bottom line, and you know I’m right.. Is this football team is NOT better one bit than that joke of a team last year and its EASY to argue that they are actually WORSE.
<o:p> </o:p>
Let the “doomed” “the sky is falling” and “chicken little” comments commence.
<o:p> </o:p>
While your at it, add worst team in the entire NFL to it… Either Marv Levy dropped the ball something FIERCE, or Ralph Wilson at this point only cares about stashing money. You figure it out, cause one way or the other this FA period was a complete and utter MESS.
=========================================================
<o:p> </o:p>
And for everyone else except Ice, I can take it.. As for you Ice, your opinion means nothing to me as you can’t even win an argument with YOURSELF.. All I’m saying is the exact same sentiments you said in YOUR WORDS before FA started.

[SABURZFAN]

tell us how you really feel.

[Mr. Pink]

Pat, you forgot OG...we just stayed the course with Bennie "flag me" Anderson!

Sickeningly, and ALL of us should feel that way right about now. This organization has done absolutely NOTHING to improve the on the field product for 2006. I'm not even sure if any of these moves really improve the team for 2007 at this point.

As Pat pointed out other teams went out and signed a couple "big name" free agents, teams worse than we were last year and teams with even LESS cap room. And yes, Detroit is still a bigger laughing stock around the league than the Bills.

The part that makes these thoughts come out and come out in such a negative connotation is that we've dealt with this crappy brand of football since the turn of this century. And, yes, it's frustrating, annoying, disheartening, pathetic in a way even. I admit it, as I'm sure many others around here shall admit it as well.

I don't know about you but I'm getting sick and tired of the brass at OBD putting a turd in a shiny package and trying to sell "hope" to the fan base. We've sat around for years now in futility and there really is no light at the end of the proverbial tunnel.

Most of all I'm sick and tired of the losing. The referencing of us being the next Arizona Bengals Whatever.

Chalk up another "chicken little" post!

[patmoran2006]

BTW
You may as well cut JP Losman right now while you're at it.
You're going to do next-to-nothing in FA to address our BIGGEST weakness, and then expect him to improve and get better with ROOKIE(s) starting on the line?????

Poor guy. He has no CHANCE to be successful.

[Philagape]

It's neither the most unpopular post in BZ history nor terribly original. But it is true.

[HAMMER]

This guy just wants attention, this is his 400th post saying the same GD thing. F*** you are a miserable SOB.

[patmoran2006]

It's neither the most unpopular post in BZ history nor terribly original. But it is true.
Losing a 80+ receiver (a down year) for a 4th round draft choice and having everybody cheer it has put me over the top.

He DIDNT want to BE HERE, I understand that.. take a look at the initial thread and ask yourself "Would you?"

I'll give Marv the draft "benefit".. He can take the FIRST three picks of the draft, even the third rounder, and I"ll pretend they ALL start and CONTRIBUTE.. This team is still horrible.

[Bling]

R.I.P. patmoran. Either you get banned, or much worse, commit suicide. Nice knowing you, dude.

[patmoran2006]

R.I.P. patmoran. Either you get banned, or much worse, commit suicide. Nice knowing you, dude.
Since I just posted that in the last hour, NFL Network has said that Eric Moulds will be cut because we can't get anything with him via trade.

And the DE from Denver (Pope) we were interested in just signed with the New York Jets..

[Turf]

When did this message become patmoranzone.com, or ice.com.
The two of you are so full of yourselves it's pathetic. Get a life.

[patmoran2006]

When did this message become patmoranzone.com, or ice.com.
The two of you are so full of yourselves it's pathetic. Get a life.

As expected.. Very insightful. Love the way you stick to the subject matter.

[Turf]

Sorry Pat, been holding that one in quite a while.

[patmoran2006]

Sorry Pat, been holding that one in quite a while.

I dont mind you taking a shot at all dude.. Not offended.
But you haven't made a single point to contradict a thing I've said.

[OpIv37]

didn't I post almost this same thread on Friday?

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=95487

[Gunzlingr]

that is one of the most assinine posts I have ever read. Most of those guys were never coming here no matter what was thrown at them. I feel ******ed for even reading it.

[OpIv37]

that is one of the most assinine posts I have ever read. Most of those guys were never coming here no matter what was thrown at them. I feel ******ed for even reading it.

Well there's a follow-on question here:

Why wouldn't they come here? Cap room? Buffalo Weather? Poor management? If this team can't attract top talent, Marv better figure out why and fix it before the team loses their entire fan base. Buffalo barely has enough money to support the Bills, and they're not gonna do it if mediocrity becomes the norm.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Pat, how many more times are you going to say the same things? I get it...we get it. And, some of the people here agree with you and some don't. You don't need to convince the ones that do and you are probably not ever going to convince those who don't.

Whether we like it or not, the Bills are not a good team right now and are not likely to be a good team this season and probably won't be a very good team next season. Of course Marv Levy and those who work for the Bills aren't going to say that publically--from a business/PR standpoint it would be stupid, but, more importantly, as anyone who has ever played sports will tell you, you play to win and expect to win and never admit to the possibility of losing, even when you have no chance whatsoever (otherwise, why bother playing and risking your health in doing so?--a paycheck isn't enough if you play for the love of the game). So, of course, they are going to say that they are playing to win a Super Bowl this year...but, realistically, the reality is that they have to rebuild this team in order to be good enough to win a Super Bowl and that is going to take time--at least two years. And, there is a serious question about whether Ralph Wilson has the cash on hand and is willing to put it into the kind of bonus money that will be necessary to sign premium free agents in order to make this team a Super Bowl contender even that fast.

Which means that the Bills, if they are to get to the point of being a good enough team to compete for a Super Bowl, are going to have to build around younger, cheaper players--role players and the players that they can obtain in the draft and keep as free agents. If you've read Marv Levy's book and you have been paying attention to the moves that the Bills have been making in free agency, it is obvious that this is the direction that they are going in and the methodology that they are following. Now, as a Bills fan you do not have to be happy with it, but you do have to recognize that, whether you like it or not, that is what they are doing.

Which leaves you with a choice: 1.) you can accept that this is what they are doing and try to examine the moves that they make from that perspective; 2.) you can try to contact Ralph Wilson and/or Marv Levy and try to convince them that this is the wrong approach to take; 3.) you can start a campaign to get Marv fired--which won't happen at this point with Ralph as the owner--or find someone who will buy the team from Ralph and change its approach; 4.) you can become so upset that you refuse to support the team in any way--in which case, why bother saying anything about them; or 5.) you can decide that the Bills are such a lost cause that they will never win and change alliegences to another team.

Now, I don't like the fact that my beloved Bills are once again becoming one of the worst teams in the NFL, but I have been through this before and I am not going to let this stop me from being a Bills fan and supporting the team. While I may not like or agree with some/many/all of the moves that the Bills' front office have made, I am taking a realistic approach to the position that the team is in and what they are trying to do in order to build a competitive team. I have to because this is what they are going to do regardless of what I think and I still choose to support the team and be a fan. If I don't take this approach, I am only going to drive myself and everyone else crazy with my complaining and that's still not going to change anything.

At this point, I believe that it is time to be realistic fellow Bills fans. As Bill Parcells put it nicely, "You are what your record says you are" and the Bills, coming off of a 5-11 season with a divided lockerroom, are not a good team. They are trying to take steps to improve that team--by addition and subtraction--but are limited to doing so with small steps. If you expect them to take big or giant steps, you are just going to be very disapointed, so, if you are going to continue to be a support of the Bills and a fan of the team, you might as well get used to the idea of measuring the team's progress in smaller steps--smaller perhaps than any of us might like--and looking to see whether those steps are going in the proper direction. Complaining that the team is not taking big steps, etc., once stated, is not going to be anything more than a waste of energy and an irritation to others.

[patmoran2006]

Pat, how many more times are you going to say the same things? I get it...we get it. And, some of the people here agree with you and some don't. You don't need to convince the ones that do and you are probably not ever going to convince those who don't.

Whether we like it or not, the Bills are not a good team right now and are not likely to be a good team this season and probably won't be a very good team next season. Of course Marv Levy and those who work for the Bills aren't going to say that publically--from a business/PR standpoint it would be stupid, but, more importantly, as anyone who has ever played sports will tell you, you play to win and expect to win and never admit to the possibility of losing, even when you have no chance whatsoever (otherwise, why bother playing and risking your health in doing so?--a paycheck isn't enough if you play for the love of the game). So, of course, they are going to say that they are playing to win a Super Bowl this year...but, realistically, the reality is that they have to rebuild this team in order to be good enough to win a Super Bowl and that is going to take time--at least two years. And, there is a serious question about whether Ralph Wilson has the cash on hand and is willing to put it into the kind of bonus money that will be necessary to sign premium free agents in order to make this team a Super Bowl contender even that fast.

Which means that the Bills, if they are to get to the point of being a good enough team to compete for a Super Bowl, are going to have to build around younger, cheaper players--role players and the players that they can obtain in the draft and keep as free agents. If you've read Marv Levy's book and you have been paying attention to the moves that the Bills have been making in free agency, it is obvious that this is the direction that they are going in and the methodology that they are following. Now, as a Bills fan you do not have to be happy with it, but you do have to recognize that, whether you like it or not, that is what they are doing.

Which leaves you with a choice: 1.) you can accept that this is what they are doing and try to examine the moves that they make from that perspective; 2.) you can try to contact Ralph Wilson and/or Marv Levy and try to convince them that this is the wrong approach to take; 3.) you can start a campaign to get Marv fired--which won't happen at this point with Ralph as the owner--or find someone who will buy the team from Ralph and change its approach; 4.) you can become so upset that you refuse to support the team in any way--in which case, why bother saying anything about them; or 5.) you can decide that the Bills are such a lost cause that they will never win and change alliegences to another team.

Now, I don't like the fact that my beloved Bills are once again becoming one of the worst teams in the NFL, but I have been through this before and I am not going to let this stop me from being a Bills fan and supporting the team. While I may not like or agree with some/many/all of the moves that the Bills' front office have made, I am taking a realistic approach to the position that the team is in and what they are trying to do in order to build a competitive team. I have to because this is what they are going to do regardless of what I think and I still choose to support the team and be a fan. If I don't take this approach, I am only going to drive myself and everyone else crazy with my complaining and that's still not going to change anything.

At this point, I believe that it is time to be realistic fellow Bills fans. As Bill Parcells put it nicely, "You are what your record says you are" and the Bills, coming off of a 5-11 season with a divided lockerroom, are not a good team. They are trying to take steps to improve that team--by addition and subtraction--but are limited to doing so with small steps. If you expect them to take big or giant steps, you are just going to be very disapointed, so, if you are going to continue to be a support of the Bills and a fan of the team, you might as well get used to the idea of measuring the team's progress in smaller steps--smaller perhaps than any of us might like--and looking to see whether those steps are going in the proper direction. Complaining that the team is not taking big steps, etc., once stated, is not going to be anything more than a waste of energy and an irritation to others.

Thank you for at least keeping a comment FOOTBALL related.

And I still had hope for this team for 2006 until I seen Runyan and Neal resign with their teams, and this Moulds situation become a total joke, which is very recent.

[Marvelous]

The Ultimate Pat Moran bash post.. I really don’t care, but this isn’t opinion, its FACT.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
Let’s examine SOME of the Bills weaker spots last season and what’s went on around the league since March 10.
<o:p> </o:p>
Center: (Lose Teague)
The Browns get LeCharles Bentley
<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Carolina</st1:place></st1:City> gets Justin Hartwig
Titans get Kevin Mawae
Bills get “Melvin Fowler” all 8 starts of him.
<o:p> </o:p>
Safety (lose Milloy)
Skins’ get Adam Archuleta
Chargers get Marlon McCree
Titans get Chris Hope
Rams get Corey Chavous
Bills get “Matt Bowen” who hasn’t started in two years, but is a cover two safety.
<o:p> </o:p>
WR (Losing Moulds)
Skins’ get Antwaan Randle El AND Brandon Lloyd
Browns get Joe Jerevicous
Titans get David Givens (worse team with less cap room, see a pattern)
Cowboys get Terrel Owens
Panthers get MeShawn Johnson
49ers get Antonio Bryant
Bills get Andre Davis and resign Josh Reed (who had four YEARS to prove he could start)
<o:p> </o:p>
DE
<st1:City><st1:place>Atlanta</st1:place></st1:City> gets John Abraham
Eagles get Darren Howard
Texans get Anthony Weaver
Bills “resign” Ryan Denney
<o:p> </o:p>
QB
Fins get Duante Culpepper
<st1:City><st1:place>Detroit</st1:place></st1:City> gets Josh McCown
Saints get Drew Brees
Bills get “Craig Nall”
<o:p> </o:p>
Tackle (you remember that spot that continuously gets your QB killed when they suck)
Browns get Kevin Schaffer
Cowboys get Jeff Fabini
Bills resigned Greg Jerman
<o:p> </o:p>
We did sign Larry Tripplett and lost Sam Adams at DT (Push at best)
<o:p> </o:p>
Oh yeah , we did attempt to sign a pair of RFA’s and went 0-for-2 in the process.
<o:p> </o:p>
Now you tell me in what , way, shape or form how in the world did this BUFFALO BILLS football team in any way IMPROVE over a 5-11 team that was already bad to begin with.
<o:p> </o:p>
Anyone who thinks the draft was the ONLY route to get better should not expect a winning season for a very long time. I didn’t expect us to get after EVERY big-name free agent, but this is a joke. Signing 2-3 impact players shouldn’t be too much for a Bills fan to ask for, a team that was MORE than $14 million under the cap WITH Moulds on the roster.
<o:p> </o:p>
Teams with LESS cap room (<st1:State><st1:place>tenn</st1:place></st1:State>, dallas, <st1:City><st1:place>Miami</st1:place></st1:City>) did more to improve than we did.
Teams with WORSE records (<st1:City><st1:place>Detroit</st1:place></st1:City>, <st1:place><st1:City>Green Bay</st1:City>, <st1:State>Tennessee</st1:State></st1:place> (again) did more to improve than we did.)
<o:p> </o:p>
You can hate on me all you want.. You can defend Marv Levy and staff til the end of the earth.
<o:p> </o:p>
The bottom line, and you know I’m right.. Is this football team is NOT better one bit than that joke of a team last year and its EASY to argue that they are actually WORSE.
<o:p> </o:p>
Let the “doomed” “the sky is falling” and “chicken little” comments commence.
<o:p> </o:p>
While your at it, add worst team in the entire NFL to it… Either Marv Levy dropped the ball something FIERCE, or Ralph Wilson at this point only cares about stashing money. You figure it out, cause one way or the other this FA period was a complete and utter MESS.
=========================================================
<o:p> </o:p>
And for everyone else except Ice, I can take it.. As for you Ice, your opinion means nothing to me as you can’t even win an argument with YOURSELF.. All I’m saying is the exact same sentiments you said in YOUR WORDS before FA started.


I agree with your assesments 100% BUT your a smart fan who should know that popular free agents aren't always the "best" FA's.. a crapy 5-11 team isn't fixed in FA in 1 season dude. I think we did drop the ball on getting that Balimore RB Taylor. McGahee could use the push + we could use the insurance. ESP since his contract is coming up..

[John Doe]

At this point, I believe that it is time to be realistic fellow Bills fans. As Bill Parcells put it nicely, "You are what your record says you are" and the Bills, coming off of a 5-11 season with a divided lockerroom, are not a good team. They are trying to take steps to improve that team--by addition and subtraction--but are limited to doing so with small steps. If you expect them to take big or giant steps, you are just going to be very disapointed, so, if you are going to continue to be a support of the Bills and a fan of the team, you might as well get used to the idea of measuring the team's progress in smaller steps--smaller perhaps than any of us might like--and looking to see whether those steps are going in the proper direction. Complaining that the team is not taking big steps, etc., once stated, is not going to be anything more than a waste of energy and an irritation to others.

Good post, but I think that the Bills can play winning football this season.

[patmoran2006]

I didnt expect us to go after every FA agent, JUST THE OFFENSIVE line would have been sufficient.

For the first time, I am convinced Ralph Wilson sold the fans **** on a stick by hiring Levy and it was little more than a PR move for a fledging franchise.. I got friends and other "fake writers" from all over the country and its ANNOYING to hear what a joke the Buffalo Bills are..

[OpIv37]

Good post, but I think that the Bills can play winning football this season.

why do you think that? The Bills made only superficial changes to the OL and DL, which is really what got them killed last year. Why do you think the 06 Bills can win when they're so similar to the 5-11 '05 Bills?

Don't forget that the 05 Bills got blown out several times (SD and Oak come immediately to mind), lost to the 4-12 Jets, and blew a 21 point lead to the Fish. It wasn't like the start of 04 where the team lost 4 games by a combined 12 points.

[Gunzlingr]

Well there's a follow-on question here:

Why wouldn't they come here? Cap room? Buffalo Weather? Poor management? If this team can't attract top talent, Marv better figure out why and fix it before the team loses their entire fan base. Buffalo barely has enough money to support the Bills, and they're not gonna do it if mediocrity becomes the norm.

Archuleta, and Hutch would have taken all of our cap for their huge ass salaries, Bentley and Jurevicious both said they were going to Cleveland, because that is where they wanted to be. Some of them resigned with their current teams, even after shopping around. Some are well past their prime and still wanted big $$.

I don't get this Madden/Fantasy Football mentality of getting pissed when we don't sign guys on their names alone. Not even the Redskins get everybody out there.

I can't say that it wouldn't have been nice to get a John Abraham, but how many would have *****ed if we got him for a draft pick?

[acehole]

ok....so....whats your point?

Miami is signing everyone.......go on thier boards.

We are rebuilding face it....starts with RFA and URFA...middle teir journeymen.

Then draft...

Then pick up some June 1 cuts....

Then some bigger names in the next year....more of the same...RFA and URFA...middle teir journeymen.

Then some big money guys that can put you over the top.

O and d lines gel by then....qb gains confidence and experience.

Then you make a run...

You win or lose ...then go into cap hell and spend 2 years getting out...

Then the whole thing all over again.

Part of the circle of life....get over it and yourself.

hahah just kidding Pat.....just breath.

[Ed]

So I guess there's no chance some of our young players could actually get better, in turn improving our team...

I know it sounds crazy, players getting better with experience, but sometimes you just have to be patient and let guys develop.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Good post, but I think that the Bills can play winning football this season.

Depending on what they do in the draft, I think that they can play winning football, too, but, given the competition that they will be up against, the results may not show right away and, therefore, may not be reflected in their record.

I expect to see them play with more discipline and heart this season and for their record to improve next year. A lot will depend on how their young players progress and whether the coaches succeed in putting the players into positions where they can be successful--which is not something that we have see a lot of with the Bills in recent years. There won't be a lot of room for error, though.

[John Doe]

why do you think that? The Bills made only superficial changes to the OL and DL, which is really what got them killed last year. Why do you think the 06 Bills can win when they're so similar to the 5-11 '05 Bills?

Don't forget that the 05 Bills got blown out several times (SD and Oak come immediately to mind), lost to the 4-12 Jets, and blew a 21 point lead to the Fish. It wasn't like the start of 04 where the team lost 4 games by a combined 12 points.

I think that the defense is one player away from being very good (we need a big tackle). The defensive backfield should be particularly good.

I think that the offense line play will be improved with Peters getting all the reps in practice along with an upgrade at center and help through the draft.

I think that the run game will also be improved with a tight end who is a great blocker as opposed to last year when we had a tight ends that were not good at anything.

I think that our special teams will be even better this season.

I fully expect our coaching to be improved.

You can win in this league with good defense, great special teams, and a run game.

[OpIv37]

Archuleta, and Hutch would have taken all of our cap for their huge ass salaries, Bentley and Jurevicious both said they were going to Cleveland, because that is where they wanted to be. Some of them resigned with their current teams, even after shopping around. Some are well past their prime and still wanted big $$.

I don't get this Madden/Fantasy Football mentality of getting pissed when we don't sign guys on their names alone. Not even the Redskins get everybody out there.

I can't say that it wouldn't have been nice to get a John Abraham, but how many would have *****ed if we got him for a draft pick?

depends which draft pick, but I've never been a fan of Abraham cuz he's too injury-prone.

Pat's point is that the Bills were pretty pathetic in several positions last season. There were numerous big name players in all these positions, and the Bills got NONE of them. You mean to tell me that everyone on the list in the initial post is overrated? They're all just overpaid cuz of their name recognition?

I'm sorry but if we need to overpay a tackle to give JP a chance to develop and win a few extra games, I'm fine with that. The problem is more the lack of action in areas of need than the lack of big names. Pat was saying (as I did last week) that the Bills have done little to nothing to fix problem positions. And it's frustrating as hell to watch.

[ICE74129]

why do you think that? The Bills made only superficial changes to the OL and DL, which is really what got them killed last year. Why do you think the 06 Bills can win when they're so similar to the 5-11 '05 Bills?

Don't forget that the 05 Bills got blown out several times (SD and Oak come immediately to mind), lost to the 4-12 Jets, and blew a 21 point lead to the Fish. It wasn't like the start of 04 where the team lost 4 games by a combined 12 points.

I think we are far from done Op. The draft will field starters and June first is coming up.

[patmoran2006]

So I guess there's no chance some of our young players could actually get better, in turn improving our team...

I know it sounds crazy, players getting better with experience, but sometimes you just have to be patient and let guys develop.

Thats the problem ! we have GREAT young players.. McGahee and Evans are great young players, and the jury is still out on Losman.. BUT HOW the hell you expect them to get better and improve on a 100% crap OL that's only upgrading is coming way via ROOKIE draft picks?

[Mitchy moo]

This guy just wants attention, this is his 400th post saying the same GD thing. F*** you are a miserable SOB.

Can you tell us how you feel about him, please?

[Dozerdog]

It seems to me that you measure a team's success solely by the flashiness of the signs. Maybe you should be a Redskins fan.

If you were a Patriot's fan you would be crapping a brick right now.



If you went after the guys you pine for in your original posts, this team would be broke but with one hell of a center and an overated Safety.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

So I guess there's no chance some of our young players could actually get better, in turn improving our team...

I know it sounds crazy, players getting better with experience, but sometimes you just have to be patient and let guys develop.

And, usually teams lose games when they play their younger players because the young guys tend to make mistakes as they gain experience.

Back in the "way olden days", many coaches used to have a rule of thumb that said that you lose at least one game for every rookie that you start. While free agency has changed that dynamic a lot, you have to expect young teams to lose some games simply due to inexperience. The key is whether the young players continue to improve and play better.

One of the problems with the Bills last year--especially on defense--is that, with all of the veterans that they had, they not only did not improve, but they seriously regressed. And, I think that part of what we have been seeing in this off-season is a view being taken by the Bills front office that, if the veterans are going to play that badly, they might as well get rid of them and let the young guys play and see if they can improve with experience.

[patmoran2006]

It seems to me that you measure a team's success solely by the flashiness of the signs. Maybe you should be a Redskins fan.

If you were a Patriot's fan you would be crapping a brick right now.



If you went after the guys you pine for in your original posts, this team would be broke but with one hell of a center and an overated Safety.
What overated safety did I want? You'll be hard-pressed to find a thread where the words "Archuleta" and "fond" were in the same sentence of anything I wrote, I wanted McCree and he wasnt that expensive either.

As for the line, there's no flashy signs about it.. AS we've learned for six years running, heading into seven and likely to eight and beyond, we're going NOWHERE without an OL. So if takes a Bentley (who's large bonus made his cap number small first half of his contract) to make our line something that resembles an OL, then so be it. I never suggested or thought we'd get Bentley, Schaffer and Neal. But an upgrade with a vet who's had more than 8 starts would have showed SOMETHING.

[EDS]

And, usually teams lose games when they play their younger players because the young guys tend to make mistakes as they gain experience.

Back in the "way olden days", many coaches used to have a rule of thumb that said that you lose at least one game for every rookie that you start. While free agency has changed that dynamic a lot, you have to expect young teams to lose some games simply due to inexperience. The key is whether the young players continue to improve and play better.

One of the problems with the Bills last year--especially on defense--is that, with all of the veterans that they had, they not only did not improve, but they seriously regressed. And, I think that part of what we have been seeing in this off-season is a view being taken by the Bills front office that, if the veterans are going to play that badly, they might as well get rid of them and let the young guys play and see if they can improve with experience.

Excellent points. Problem is logic doesn't work with this crowd.

[SquishDaFish]

Man I want my 2 mins of my life back from reading a bunch of CRAP. BlaBLa BLa bla BLA. STFU already this is the BILLSZONE not the PATZONE! Why do you always have to repeat over and over and over again! STFU

[Iehoshua]

Man I want my 2 mins of my life back from reading a bunch of CRAP. BlaBLa BLa bla BLA. STFU already this is the BILLSZONE not the PATZONE! Why do you always have to repeat over and over and over again! STFU
:rofl:

Doomed! We're DOOOOOOMED!!!!

DOOMED!!!!!

[Ed]

Thats the problem ! we have GREAT young players.. McGahee and Evans are great young players, and the jury is still out on Losman.. BUT HOW the hell you expect them to get better and improve on a 100% crap OL that's only upgrading is coming way via ROOKIE draft picks?
Well I was including some of the OL players in the young guys that could improve. I really think Peters could be significantly better and I'm willing to give Preston a chance. No one really knows what we have in Geisenger either. I realize this isn't going to get anyone excited, but it's possible we already have some of the key O-lineman we need already on the team.

Offensive line has been a difficult position for a lot of teams to fill over the last few years, not just the Bills. There's a lot of competition and not a lot of talent to go after, some of which we didn't have any shot at. That's just the way it is.

I know it's frustrating, but I don't think it's fair to say that Marv has completely ignored the OL or hasn't been trying to make it better.

[Gunzlingr]

What overated safety did I want? You'll be hard-pressed to find a thread where the words "Archuleta" and "fond" were in the same sentence of anything I wrote, I wanted McCree and he wasnt that expensive either.

As for the line, there's no flashy signs about it.. AS we've learned for six years running, heading into seven and likely to eight and beyond, we're going NOWHERE without an OL. So if takes a Bentley (who's large bonus made his cap number small first half of his contract) to make our line something that resembles an OL, then so be it. I never suggested or thought we'd get Bentley, Schaffer and Neal. But an upgrade with a vet who's had more than 8 starts would have showed SOMETHING.

Yet whenever you bring up guys the team didn't bring in, they are always on the list! :shakeno:

[SquishDaFish]

OMG we are DOOMED we wont win oone game. ******* why watch this season. OH MY GOD we are DOOMED!!

[patmoran2006]

Man I want my 2 mins of my life back from reading a bunch of CRAP. BlaBLa BLa bla BLA. STFU already this is the BILLSZONE not the PATZONE! Why do you always have to repeat over and over and over again! STFU

Then why dont you take 2 mins of your life and actually write your own thread, and it wont be "Patzone"

[patmoran2006]

OMG we are DOOMED we wont win oone game. ******* why watch this season. OH MY GOD we are DOOMED!!

Nevermind, now I know why you never write anything of your own.

[SquishDaFish]

Great come back patmoron! Good one you got me. Damn man we are DOOMED!

[SquishDaFish]

Forget it we as Bills fans should just not watch any games because PAT says we are going to suck. He def knows we are going to stink up the NFL. OH BOY

[SquishDaFish]

Maybe I should write articles like yours right King PAT!?!? Man im not on same level with you because I dont write articles for websites because I HAVE A LIFE and dont need to act like im an NFL WRITER!

[Ed]

And, usually teams lose games when they play their younger players because the young guys tend to make mistakes as they gain experience.

Back in the "way olden days", many coaches used to have a rule of thumb that said that you lose at least one game for every rookie that you start. While free agency has changed that dynamic a lot, you have to expect young teams to lose some games simply due to inexperience. The key is whether the young players continue to improve and play better.

One of the problems with the Bills last year--especially on defense--is that, with all of the veterans that they had, they not only did not improve, but they seriously regressed. And, I think that part of what we have been seeing in this off-season is a view being taken by the Bills front office that, if the veterans are going to play that badly, they might as well get rid of them and let the young guys play and see if they can improve with experience.
Exactly. I'll take a young team over an old team any day. There's nothing worse then having a bunch of aging vets with playoff and SB experience and still being bad. At least with young guys you can always have hope and hope keeps me excited.

[Iehoshua]

Hell, we might as well start cheering for Miami, cuz they're having a STELLAR offseason! The Bills entire future is obviously ruined due to the past month. Either that or we all drink the suicide Kool Aid together.

[SquishDaFish]

You mean the Pat Kool Aid darth???

[patmoran2006]

Maybe I should write articles like yours right King PAT!?!? Man im not on same level with you because I dont write articles for websites because I HAVE A LIFE and dont need to act like im an NFL WRITER!

what do you do for a living? You want to get personal now?

[Meathead]

http://www.shinydonkey.com/images/bull/endorse/iamshamed.jpg

[Iehoshua]

BillsIN05 and I were pro-Bills haters ourselves, now that you're in town, Pat, we've both been laid off!

[SquishDaFish]

Im a Cook/Kitchen Manager that pays very well!

[Gunzlingr]

Keep the personal attacks in your pockets guys.

[patmoran2006]

Im a Cook/Kitchen Manager that pays very well!

Then go make me a burger and STFU. ;)

[SquishDaFish]

Ill spit in for you too.

[Pride]

I made my statement this year by not renewing my season tickets... Sure, I'll hit up a few games... but I figure tickets will come cheap when the bills start out 0-6

[SquishDaFish]

Which is a good move Pride until they start showing it on field

[patmoran2006]

Ill spit in for you too.
YOur probably a horrible cook anyway, so it will spice it up some.

[Iehoshua]

That's not nice, Pat!
:mad:

[McBFLO]

I didnt expect us to go after every FA agent, JUST THE OFFENSIVE line would have been sufficient.

For the first time, I am convinced Ralph Wilson sold the fans **** on a stick by hiring Levy and it was little more than a PR move for a fledging franchise.. I got friends and other "fake writers" from all over the country and its ANNOYING to hear what a joke the Buffalo Bills are..
If you're so unhappy about it, root for another team. We could all use a break from your b!tching and whining. They're taking the approach that they feel is the best way to make the team a success with the means they have. Get used to it.

[SquishDaFish]

Pat Ive been doing it for a living for 12 years. I know IM GOOD unlike you and you articles. Ive been running kitchens and am about to run my restraunt. The difference between me and you is I know Im good you THINK your good.

[SquishDaFish]

Great post pepper!
`

[Iehoshua]

What's your cooking specialty, '05?

:hungry:

[patmoran2006]

If you own your home, I hope its through my mortgage company and your TWO days late on your payment, I'll get you as many points in penalties as humanly possible ;)

[patmoran2006]

What's your cooking specialty, '05?

:hungry:
Hot Dogs and Burgers.

[patmoran2006]

It seems to me that you measure a team's success solely by the flashiness of the signs. Maybe you should be a Redskins fan.

If you were a Patriot's fan you would be crapping a brick right now.



If you went after the guys you pine for in your original posts, this team would be broke but with one hell of a center and an overated Safety.

Hardly makes a team broke, and a TREMENDOUS upgrade over Anderson.
Patriots | Contract update: Neal
Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:04:59 -0800
<A href="http://www.kffl.com/link/164">Mike Reiss, of the Boston Globe, reports New England Patriots (http://www.kffl.com/team/24/nfl) OG Stephen Neal (http://www.kffl.com/player/1176/nfl) signed a four-year contract with base salaries of $600,000 (2006), $1.7 million (2007), $2.1 million (2008), and $2.5 million (2010). The deal includes $3.2 million signing bonus.

[SquishDaFish]

Italian food darth

[Iehoshua]

Italian food darth
Fettuccine Alfredo?
:D

[Dozerdog]

Thats the problem ! we have GREAT young players.. McGahee and Evans are great young players, and the jury is still out on Losman.. BUT HOW the hell you expect them to get better and improve on a 100% crap OL that's only upgrading is coming way via ROOKIE draft picks?Hoe do you expect the Bills to retain these two guys shelling out top dollar for the best guy at every position of need?


There are 32 teams out there. Acccording to Ask the commish (http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/numbers.asp) there was $440 million in cap space this year. The Bills have $14 million- or 3% of the total.


The Bills would be ******ed giving all of it to LeCharles Bentley and Adam Archuletta- then using their remaining abilities to fill holes (The Draft) on wasting it on a stupid TE.

How's about the Bills use their limited cap space to fill a lot of holes instead of blowing the entire wad on 2-3 positions

[SquishDaFish]

Good posting Dozer. And yes Darth

[Iehoshua]

Hoe do you expect the Bills to retain these two guys shelling out top dollar for the best guy at every position of need?


There are 32 teams out there. Acccording to Ask the commish there was $440 million in cap space this year. The Bills have $14 million- or 3% of the total.


The Bills would be ******ed giving all of it to LeCharles Bentley and Adam Archuletta- then using their remaining abilities to fill holes (The Draft) on wasting it on a stupid TE.

How's about the Bills use their limited cap space to fill a lot of holes instead of blowing the entire wad on 2-3 positions
If we don't sign every available free agent, Dozer, we suck automatically.

Haven't you learned anything yet???

[Dozerdog]

Hardly makes a team broke, and a TREMENDOUS upgrade over Anderson.
Patriots | Contract update: Neal
Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:04:59 -0800
<A href="http://www.kffl.com/link/164">Mike Reiss, of the Boston Globe, reports New England Patriots (http://www.kffl.com/team/24/nfl) OG Stephen Neal (http://www.kffl.com/player/1176/nfl) signed a four-year contract with base salaries of $600,000 (2006), $1.7 million (2007), $2.1 million (2008), and $2.5 million (2010). The deal includes $3.2 million signing bonus.

And I'm sure he wwas staring at the phone begging the Bills to call him. :rofl:

Why not use the draft - which by the way is extreamly deep in OL this year- to fill those needs instead of blowing it on the Stephan Neals of the world?

Oh yea- forgot- we need Vernon Davis because he's some greek god or something.

[patmoran2006]

The Browns used up barely over $7 milliion cap space for 2006 and landed three STUDS, which is less than half of the cap space we have going in.

Please, dont include me and Safety Adam Archuleta in the same sentence again, I never had any interest in him.

I'm not dumb.. I know how the salary cap works. I'm well aware that we couldn't afford to fill EVERY position with a top-notch player. But we filled ZERO positions, not one with any player in this league who has proved himself, unless you count Tripplett who only makes up for Adams.

[patmoran2006]

And I'm sure he wwas staring at the phone begging the Bills to call him. :rofl:

Why not use the draft - which by the way is extreamly deep in OL this year- to fill those needs instead of blowing it on the Stephan Neals of the world?

Oh yea- forgot- we need Vernon Davis because he's some greek god or something.

He is dude! Well, he's better than any OL or DL at number eight who's last name is not Ferguson.

[Turf]

Suddenly I'm starting to like this thread. Going on about nothing over and over and over is getting really boring.

[camelcowboy]

How about you take your hot compress pat, and wait for the draft. That is a big part of the offseason.

[patmoran2006]

ok

[YardRat]

Point to note...

Marv's first ever 'free agent' signing was a guy named Steve Tasker, actually acquired off of waivers from the Houston Oilers in Levy's first few games as head coach of the Bills.

Real big name there at the time, who everybody coveted, wasn't he?

[SquishDaFish]

But Rat we need to sign all the Big name guys in now a days NFL. According t o Pat anyway.

[camelcowboy]

ok

Well, You can shrug it off, but would you change your tune if marv had a good draft. What do you want to see from this draft that will fill our holes?

[SquishDaFish]

All I have been telling pat and all the crybabies is that wait till the end of the first mini camp with the draft more FA and the Cuts after first mini camp to come. Before saying its a lost season. Still plenty of time to get the right players and to let MArv do what is right for this team.

[Dr. Lecter]

The one thing that is funny is that Pat *****es about the Bills not signing lineman and then wants Davis.

I realize you think nobody else is worth #8 (give me Huff, Ngata, Bunkley or a trade down, especially if Young or Cutler are there), but a luxury TE with all of the needs for this team?

[camelcowboy]

The one thing that is funny is that Pat *****es about the Bills not signing lineman and then wants Davis.

I realize you think nobody else is worth #8 (give me Huff, Ngata, Bunkley or a trade down, especially if Young or Cutler are there), but a luxury TE with all of the needs for this team?

Agree, that would be a Tom Donahue pick. Flash, but a line is needed, and that should be the focus of this draft.

[patmoran2006]

The one thing that is funny is that Pat *****es about the Bills not signing lineman and then wants Davis.

I realize you think nobody else is worth #8 (give me Huff, Ngata, Bunkley or a trade down, especially if Young or Cutler are there), but a luxury TE with all of the needs for this team?

Thats the biggest reason I wanted OL via FA, because a kid like Losman dont need ROOKIES on the line...... and so we can take a player like Davis, who can turn this offense around..


I'm done 'complaining' though. we'll wait to see how the draft pans out.. The one thing I do tend to forget sometimes is that Marv is a pretty smart cat...

[SquishDaFish]

Thats what Ive been saying PAt just calm down man and wait for the draft to finish and then after the 1st mini camp will be cuts so see if we get anyone there. Its a long offseason which just began.

Theres only a few players I would want the Bills to draft that high....
Davis,Brick,Mario,Hawk,Huff

[Dr. Lecter]

Thats the biggest reason I wanted OL via FA, because a kid like Losman dont need ROOKIES on the line...... and so we can take a player like Davis, who can turn this offense around..


I'm done 'complaining' though. we'll wait to see how the draft pans out.. The one thing I do tend to forget sometimes is that Marv is a pretty smart cat...

But do you want to depend on a rookie in Davis to turn the offense around?

[camelcowboy]

Thats the biggest reason I wanted OL via FA, because a kid like Losman dont need ROOKIES on the line...... and so we can take a player like Davis, who can turn this offense around..


I'm done 'complaining' though. we'll wait to see how the draft pans out.. The one thing I do tend to forget sometimes is that Marv is a pretty smart cat...

Why, so by the time Losman pans out, if he does his offensive line will be old and will have to be replaced. Only thing worse then a bad football team, is a bad football team that is old. Get some talented kids on that oline let them grow together.

[Jan Reimers]

I have to agree with your free agency assessment, Pat. I just hope some of our young players - Tim Anderson, Jason Peters, Duke Preston, Jim Leonhard, Rashad Baker, Chris Kelsay, Kevin Everett, Roscoe Parrish, Eric King, Jabari Greer, Liam Ezekiel, Jon Goldsberry, Lionel Gates, etc. - develop really quickly, and that we have a super draft.

It seems that all we did in free agency was to get a little younger at a few positions (Fowler for Teague, Bowen for Milloy, Royal for Campbell, and Triplett for Adams), and add a couple of depth guys in Davis and Nall.

[Marvelous]

I made my statement this year by not renewing my season tickets... Sure, I'll hit up a few games... but I figure tickets will come cheap when the bills start out 0-6

Which is a good move Pride until they start showing it on field


What is that a temper tauntrum? We're not winning so your not going... Are you fan of the team or success?

[justasportsfan]

Let me translate Pat's thread :

[HAMMER]

Well there's a follow-on question here:

Why wouldn't they come here? Cap room? Buffalo Weather? Poor management? If this team can't attract top talent, Marv better figure out why and fix it before the team loses their entire fan base. Buffalo barely has enough money to support the Bills, and they're not gonna do it if mediocrity becomes the norm.

Mediocrity has been the norm for 8-10 years, we still all go to the games. When we start to win again regularly the free agents will be signing here, not until, unless they are overpaid.

[Drive 4 Five]

Man I want my 2 mins of my life back from reading a bunch of CRAP. BlaBLa BLa bla BLA. STFU already this is the BILLSZONE not the PATZONE! Why do you always have to repeat over and over and over again! STFU

Man can't you fellas at least TRY and show a little class and some respect? I thought LOG made it clear that personal attacks were not going to be tolerated. Pat has just as much right to express his feelings about this team as anyone else without comments like this.

[Mr. Cynical]

The Ultimate Pat Moran bash post.. I really don’t care, but this isn’t opinion, its FACT.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Let’s examine SOME of the Bills weaker spots last season and what’s went on around the league since March 10.
<o:p></o:p>
Center: (Lose Teague)
The Browns get LeCharles Bentley
<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Carolina</st1:place></st1:City> gets Justin Hartwig
Titans get Kevin Mawae
Bills get “Melvin Fowler” all 8 starts of him.
<o:p></o:p>
Safety (lose Milloy)
Skins’ get Adam Archuleta
Chargers get Marlon McCree
Titans get Chris Hope
Rams get Corey Chavous
Bills get “Matt Bowen” who hasn’t started in two years, but is a cover two safety.
<o:p></o:p>
WR (Losing Moulds)
Skins’ get Antwaan Randle El AND Brandon Lloyd
Browns get Joe Jerevicous
Titans get David Givens (worse team with less cap room, see a pattern)
Cowboys get Terrel Owens
Panthers get MeShawn Johnson
49ers get Antonio Bryant
Bills get Andre Davis and resign Josh Reed (who had four YEARS to prove he could start)
<o:p></o:p>
DE
<st1:City><st1:place>Atlanta</st1:place></st1:City> gets John Abraham
Eagles get Darren Howard
Texans get Anthony Weaver
Bills “resign” Ryan Denney
<o:p></o:p>
QB
Fins get Duante Culpepper
<st1:City><st1:place>Detroit</st1:place></st1:City> gets Josh McCown
Saints get Drew Brees
Bills get “Craig Nall”
<o:p></o:p>
Tackle (you remember that spot that continuously gets your QB killed when they suck)
Browns get Kevin Schaffer
Cowboys get Jeff Fabini
Bills resigned Greg Jerman
<o:p></o:p>
We did sign Larry Tripplett and lost Sam Adams at DT (Push at best)
<o:p></o:p>
Oh yeah , we did attempt to sign a pair of RFA’s and went 0-for-2 in the process.
<o:p></o:p>
Now you tell me in what , way, shape or form how in the world did this BUFFALO BILLS football team in any way IMPROVE over a 5-11 team that was already bad to begin with.
<o:p></o:p>
Anyone who thinks the draft was the ONLY route to get better should not expect a winning season for a very long time. I didn’t expect us to get after EVERY big-name free agent, but this is a joke. Signing 2-3 impact players shouldn’t be too much for a Bills fan to ask for, a team that was MORE than $14 million under the cap WITH Moulds on the roster.
<o:p></o:p>
Teams with LESS cap room (<st1:State><st1:place>tenn</st1:place></st1:State>, dallas, <st1:City><st1:place>Miami</st1:place></st1:City>) did more to improve than we did.
Teams with WORSE records (<st1:City><st1:place>Detroit</st1:place></st1:City>, <st1:place><st1:City>Green Bay</st1:City>, <st1:State>Tennessee</st1:State></st1:place> (again) did more to improve than we did.)
<o:p></o:p>
You can hate on me all you want.. You can defend Marv Levy and staff til the end of the earth.
<o:p></o:p>
The bottom line, and you know I’m right.. Is this football team is NOT better one bit than that joke of a team last year and its EASY to argue that they are actually WORSE.
<o:p></o:p>
Let the “doomed” “the sky is falling” and “chicken little” comments commence.
<o:p></o:p>
While your at it, add worst team in the entire NFL to it… Either Marv Levy dropped the ball something FIERCE, or Ralph Wilson at this point only cares about stashing money. You figure it out, cause one way or the other this FA period was a complete and utter MESS.
=========================================================
<o:p></o:p>
And for everyone else except Ice, I can take it.. As for you Ice, your opinion means nothing to me as you can’t even win an argument with YOURSELF.. All I’m saying is the exact same sentiments you said in YOUR WORDS before FA started.

All good points IMO.