The logic behind a JP trade is.....

[Mr. Cynical]

...absolutely zero. We will get nothing...I repeat, nothing...for him. Why?

Because if Marv and Co. are "shopping him around", don't you think that other teams are going to figure it out that if JP was any good that we'd be keeping him? You don't trade someone you blew a set of #1, #2, #5 picks on who has played in 9 games behind a s**t line under a s**t coach in a s**t system....UNLESS....you think he sucks. So the other teams will figure this out and we won't get anything more than the waterboy.

May as well give him a chance. I will bet all my zbs that he is on the roster come Sept.

[Tinboy]

The only trade I see is as a back-up QB but we will only get 6-7 th round pick for. Stick with him and have him start all season, if he suckes after this season release.

[The_Philster]

The only trade I see is as a back-up QB but we will only get 6-7 th round pick for. Stick with him and have him start all season, if he suckes after this season release.
:goodpost: The only smart thing to do

[Night Train]

But Yahoo's Charles Robinson is sticking his non-existent rep on the line. :nod:

[YardRat]

Maybe other teams have the same take on JP as some Bills' fans do...

Surround him with "talent", let him "develop" on the field, and he's going to be the "QB of the future."

He has "potential", you know.

[Mitchy moo]

Young is our future, he'll be here.

[X-Era]

...absolutely zero. We will get nothing...I repeat, nothing...for him. Why?

Because if Marv and Co. are "shopping him around", don't you think that other teams are going to figure it out that if JP was any good that we'd be keeping him? You don't trade someone you blew a set of #1, #2, #5 picks on who has played in 9 games behind a s**t line under a s**t coach in a s**t system....UNLESS....you think he sucks. So the other teams will figure this out and we won't get anything more than the waterboy.

May as well give him a chance. I will bet all my zbs that he is on the roster come Sept.

I have to agree. I just cant see any team being stupid enough to trade that much for a QB only to trade him for jack squat later without ever giving him any chance to play (at least with this regime). I think its just conjecture. I think its all crap.

We wont get enough in a trade to make it worth it, hes here plain and simple.

Personally, I think the hype falls of Nall and Hole-pelt pretty quick when the balls start flying. Losman has talent. I think he steps up, and with Eric gone starts to look like the players they drafted.

[vicmantak]

If J.P. means the job of Donahoe and Mularkey... it doesn't make any sense that Levy and Jauron will be willing to continue this experiment.

Any franchise starts surrounding their QB (leader) and IMO trading J.P. simply makes things way easier.

[ICE74129]

Maybe other teams have the same take on JP as some Bills' fans do...

Surround him with "talent", let him "develop" on the field, and he's going to be the "QB of the future."

He has "potential", you know.

If Ryan leaf got 3 chances, how many for a guy like losman. Do you guys (not rat) not think they dont see the SH@! this kid has been through? They will figure the kid got screwed over just like we have.

Look Including Buffalo I know of THREE Teams that were going to draft this kid in the first round. He has no major injuries, is young and has a great upside.

YES Marv will get something for him.

[Bulldog]

Bottom line, I would rather have JP and take the chance that he's going to develop into a good QB that some other teams 7th round draft pick. I think JP has a better chance of turning into something as opposed to a 7th rounder. I for one think this whole thing is BS. If Marv & Dick go into training camp with Nall and KH, then this whole franchise is in deep S H I T !

[mybills]

Maybe other teams have the same take on JP as some Bills' fans do...

Surround him with "talent", let him "develop" on the field, and he's going to be the "QB of the future."

He has "potential", you know.
I agree. If so many Bills fans want to hang on to him so badly, and give him a chance, what makes them think other people won't want to? We are rebuilding, and that doesn't mean we look stupid for getting rid of him. It just means we are rebuilding.
Besides, he DOES have potential, and value. I have faith in Marv. :up:

[ICE74129]

I agree. If so many Bills fans want to hang on to him so badly, and give him a chance, what makes them think other people won't want to? We are rebuilding, and that doesn't mean we look stupid for getting rid of him. It just means we are rebuilding.
Besides, he DOES have potential, and value. I have faith in Marv. :up:
Here is the deal....Marv and THIS regime don't want him here. They want a fresh start and they won't have it until he is gone.

That said, I am glad. I like JP. The kid got DP'ed (I know YOU know what that means :roflmao: ) By MM and tom Clements all last year. I want to see this kid succeed. Given a real chance he will.

It would be the right thing for us, and for him. I say Croyle in the 3rd. No real pressure being a 3rd round pick and can develop in fairchilds system from the start.

[Bulldog]

I agree. If so many Bills fans want to hang on to him so badly, and give him a chance, what makes them think other people won't want to? We are rebuilding, and that doesn't mean we look stupid for getting rid of him. It just means we are rebuilding.
Besides, he DOES have potential, and value. I have faith in Marv. :up:

If a team is rebuilding, why would they try and trade a QB who is young and could grow with the team? That statement doesn't seem logical to me.

[ICE74129]

If a team is rebuilding, why would they try and trade a QB who is young and could grow with the team? That statement doesn't seem logical to me.

Sure it does. There was a major issue that tore this locker room apart last year. JP Was the center of it, right or wrong. Even if he did nothing there are still those with issues against the kid. He has to go.

Every friggin day this staff fields JP questions. They are going to end that. Marv doesn't want that first round pressure on his QB. We dont' have a good enough team to help him. We dont have time for him to get up to speed either and apperantly he isn't.

We will start Nall and draft a 3rd or 4th round guy to develop. And before anyone *****es about a 3rd or 4th round guy...when was Tom Brady drafted? If you build up the TEAM, then it doesn't matter where your QB was drafted if he has a good brain.

[mybills]

I'd like to know how many zoners were actually around during the Marv era, and how many just read or heard about him. :snicker:
I'm almost as old as Marv, and I see what he's doing. It's a smart move, trust him. :D

[BillsFever21]

If this is true then Marv is even worse then I already thought he was as a GM. The guy played 8 games in his 1st year starting with a crappy line and terrible coaches.

We still have a crappy line and terrible coaches but you gotta see if he improves. If they just throw him away I will lose what little faith I already had in this regime.

Nall or Holcomb will be the QB? Gimmie a break. They said he played well when given the chance? An entire what 33 passes in mop up action? Gimmie a break.

[EDS]

...absolutely zero. We will get nothing...I repeat, nothing...for him. Why?

Because if Marv and Co. are "shopping him around", don't you think that other teams are going to figure it out that if JP was any good that we'd be keeping him? You don't trade someone you blew a set of #1, #2, #5 picks on who has played in 9 games behind a s**t line under a s**t coach in a s**t system....UNLESS....you think he sucks. So the other teams will figure this out and we won't get anything more than the waterboy.

May as well give him a chance. I will bet all my zbs that he is on the roster come Sept.

I'm with you. I have some concerns about whether Losman will become a franchise player but I rather give him another season so the organization can make a conclusion one way or the other based on a bigger sample set.

[Bulldog]

Sure it does. There was a major issue that tore this locker room apart last year. JP Was the center of it, right or wrong. Even if he did nothing there are still those with issues against the kid. He has to go.

Every friggin day this staff fields JP questions. They are going to end that. Marv doesn't want that first round pressure on his QB. We dont' have a good enough team to help him. We dont have time for him to get up to speed either and apperantly he isn't.

We will start Nall and draft a 3rd or 4th round guy to develop. And before anyone *****es about a 3rd or 4th round guy...when was Tom Brady drafted? If you build up the TEAM, then it doesn't matter where your QB was drafted if he has a good brain.

And if Buffalo were to draft another young QB, I'm sure that the media wouldn't be asking Marv & Dick about him on a daily basis, right? Thats a weak reason for wanting to unload Losman. And it seems to me that the majority of the players that had such a problem with Losman learning on the job last season are gone. Losman will get this season to show his worth and if it doesn't work out, send him packing. This year, of all years, would be the perfect chance to insert Losman and let him take the majority of the snaps. This team is clearly building for the future, so let Losman take his lumps this year, and hope to see steady improvement as the season wears on. If you think Losmans learning curve was steep, draft a QB in the Vince Young mold and let me know how that works out. Gurantee it will take him at least 3 years to become a decent QB.

[mybills]

If you think about it in terms of rebuilding, you won't give up. We don't know how the coaches will be under new conditions, but that's not the biggest concern. If Marv & co bring in the kind of players that the team needs, even if they work with sub-par QB's in the 1st year, that's one major hurdle done. The next year you adjust your QB's..(who's improved? Who hasn't?) Could be that Nall turns out great. If not, bring in someone better. Now they have better lines, and better QB's. The lines will improve even more with a better QB. There's our solid team.

That just leaves the coaching. :ill: But like I said, we don't know yet. If they suck, they're gone, too. If they're decent, we're SB contenders. It all takes time, we just have to be patient.

[ICE74129]

And if Buffalo were to draft another young QB, I'm sure that the media wouldn't be asking Marv & Dick about him on a daily basis, right? Thats a weak reason for wanting to unload Losman. And it seems to me that the majority of the players that had such a problem with Losman learning on the job last season are gone. Losman will get this season to show his worth and if it doesn't work out, send him packing. This year, of all years, would be the perfect chance to insert Losman and let him take the majority of the snaps. This team is clearly building for the future, so let Losman take his lumps this year, and hope to see steady improvement as the season wears on. If you think Losmans learning curve was steep, draft a QB in the Vince Young mold and let me know how that works out. Gurantee it will take him at least 3 years to become a decent QB.

No they won't bug him nearly as much. Why? he is some 3rd round pick and Nall will be in the camera's so much they won't even think of Croyle.

[ICE74129]

I'd like to know how many zoners were actually around during the Marv era, and how many just read or heard about him. :snicker:
I'm almost as old as Marv, and I see what he's doing. It's a smart move, trust him. :D

Preach on sister!

[Kerr]

Currenlty JP is the most talented qb on the roster. He's almost like a white vince young. He stays.

[The_Philster]

Currenlty JP is the most talented qb on the roster. He's almost like a white vince young. .except with more upstairs

[Mr. Cynical]

If a team is rebuilding, why would they try and trade a QB who is young and could grow with the team? That statement doesn't seem logical to me.

Bingo. Exactly my point. You don't trade a young QB who cost you #1, #2, and #5 and has only played 9 games UNLESS you think he sucks for whatever reason. Which then brings us back to the point that no team is going to give up anything even remotely good for him. Keep him another year and see what happens. If they do the right thing and FIX THE @#% LINES, then if JP fails we can plug in a new QB next year behind a solid line, which will give the next QB a fighting chance.

And whether people want to believe it or not, this team IS rebuilding. If it doesn't, it will continue to look like the Cards and Lions.

[Mr. Cynical]

Bottom line, I would rather have JP and take the chance that he's going to develop into a good QB that some other teams 7th round draft pick. I think JP has a better chance of turning into something as opposed to a 7th rounder. I for one think this whole thing is BS. If Marv & Dick go into training camp with Nall and KH, then this whole franchise is in deep S H I T !

Agreed again. :smile:

[Michael82]

I agree. If so many Bills fans want to hang on to him so badly, and give him a chance, what makes them think other people won't want to? We are rebuilding, and that doesn't mean we look stupid for getting rid of him. It just means we are rebuilding.
Besides, he DOES have potential, and value. I have faith in Marv. :up:
Blind faith is not a good thing to have. :ill:

[Mr. Cynical]

Blind faith is not a good thing to have. :ill:

Been enough Kool Aid consumed over the past 5 years to prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[TacklingDummy]

LMAO @ this Losmanite thread.

Marv doesn't think JP sucks, he KNOWS JP sucks. He is not a leader. And he will be gone. He is a cancer.

And please stop with the JP got screwed and didn't get a chance BS. He got a golden chance and the only one who screwed JP was JP himself.

[Jan Reimers]

If this were a fill in the blank thread, I would have to say:

Marv is in the throes of early Alzheimers. And Ralph is in the late stages.

[joekurtz]

I'm not going to come in here & pretend to be highly knowledgable in the sport of football. Even though I've been a huge Bills fan since 1981, much of the finer technical aspects & minute details regarding talent on the field escape me. I just don't put much time into learning about them to be honest.
Me? I just like to follow the Bills & watch the games on Sunday.
My area of expertise is boxing.
But, with all that said, I have to say that dealing Losman sounds like the right way to go.
Yeah, he definitely does deserve a shot, but probably not in Buffalo. Unfair as it might be, he just seems to have too much baggage after his two short years here.
Had Levy & Jauron come in & said that they believe in the kid & that they'd be behind him 110%, that would be different. But, they've done anything BUT that, which speaks volumes.
They're not even saying that he'll be given one more year to "sink or swim"... The best thing they're indicating for him is a chance to be involved in a sort of a QB "round robin-type" deal, which I really don't think anyone wants.
I just have to believe that for this team to head into a new direction that Levy & Jauron have to be absolutely certain of who they want at the helm & then support that player completely. And, the only way that's going to happen is if they have "their guy" in there.
And, no matter how much potential he may have or how much of a raw deal he may have gotten last year, JP Losman doesn't appear at all to fit that bill.

So, why not do the right thing by him & MUCH more importantly for the team by dealing him? I'm sure that under the right circumstances we can get something of value for him. Either a pick or a player or some combination thereof.
Of course we're not going to get that #1 pick back that Donahoe spent on him two years ago, but then, he got canned for a reason(s). Right?
Unfortunately, Dallas is now enjoying the benefits of one of them...
And Levy did what he had to do with another in Mike Williams. IMO he might as well finish the job & deal Losman so the Bills can have a clean(er) slate without the burden of having to tidy up after any more of Donahoe's blunders than absolutely necessary.

[mybills]

Blind faith is not a good thing to have. :ill:
It's not blind at all.
Think about it...they said one of them has to go...what kind of trade could we get for Holcomb?
CRAP. That's what.
I guess some people are too blind to see that.

[carybillsfan]

These trade rumors are all hype for 2 reasons:
1. Marv wants everyone to think we'll be looking QB in the first, he doesn't want any of them but if teams think the Bills have no faith in Losman they may jump in front of us to get one of the Qb's thus forcing a better quality player that we need to fall...I'm guessing their targeting Hawk.
2. Remember 2 years ago in SD Brees was going into his 3rd year and had done squat, there were tons of trade rumors because everyone knew they were taking Manning #1. This got Brees fired up and he finally proved his worth with a pro-bowl year. Its a long shot but Marv and Co. are hoping JP knows the trade rumors going around maybe he'll go out relax and just play the way he's capable of.

[Kerr]

These trade rumors are all hype for 2 reasons:
Its a long shot but Marv and Co. are hoping JP knows the trade rumors going around maybe he'll go out relax and just play the way he's capable of.

That could be the only explanation.

[Bill Cody]

...absolutely zero. We will get nothing...I repeat, nothing...for him. Why?

Because if Marv and Co. are "shopping him around", don't you think that other teams are going to figure it out that if JP was any good that we'd be keeping him? You don't trade someone you blew a set of #1, #2, #5 picks on who has played in 9 games behind a s**t line under a s**t coach in a s**t system....UNLESS....you think he sucks. So the other teams will figure this out and we won't get anything more than the waterboy.

May as well give him a chance. I will bet all my zbs that he is on the roster come Sept.

I'll tell you the team he may end up going to- The New Orleans Saints. Yes they just signed Brees but that contract is structured so that if it isn't working really well the Saints can let him go after a year with no cap issue. JP is from the Bayou and he might sell some tickets down there, which is in fact an issue for them. I think JP can and will return a 5th, which is a very early 5th in NO case. Add that to the early 5th we get back for Moulds and we'll have a nice stockpile of choices in a fairly deep draft.

I really don't think Marv thinks JP sucks (he's wrong of course:; ). What I do think is he thinks JP is a long term project that before it bears fruit Ralph will be cold in the ground. He probably figures that as long as JP is on the roster he'll be getting heat by some fans to play him and he doesn't want to. Exit stage right.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

These trade rumors are all hype for 2 reasons:
1. Marv wants everyone to think we'll be looking QB in the first, he doesn't want any of them but if teams think the Bills have no faith in Losman they may jump in front of us to get one of the Qb's thus forcing a better quality player that we need to fall...I'm guessing their targeting Hawk.

2. Remember 2 years ago in SD Brees was going into his 3rd year and had done squat, there were tons of trade rumors because everyone knew they were taking Manning #1. This got Brees fired up and he finally proved his worth with a pro-bowl year. Its a long shot but Marv and Co. are hoping JP knows the trade rumors going around maybe he'll go out relax and just play the way he's capable of.

I'm surprised that it took so long for someone to bring both of these points up--excellent job, carybillsfan!

There are only two other reasons for M.Levy to be shopping JP Losman around: 1.) Marv has talked with JP and the kid has personally rubbed him the wrong way and he now understands and agrees with those who are left in the lockerroom who don't like JP and don't want to play with him; or 2.) DrewBlue Fan is right when he says that Marv may think that JP is a project that will take too long to develop into a winning QB in the NFL.

Personally, I don't think that how a GM, coach or player feels about a player or whether or not they like him should be a part of any determination about whether you keep or get rid of a guy unless he is going out of his way to hurt the team privately or publically. Over the years, I played with lots of guys I didn't particularly like, including some who I hated and/or who hated me as a person, but, as an athlete, especially as a professional, you put that aside at the lockerroom door and, if the guy is going to help your team, you play just as hard with and for the guys you don't like as the ones that you do--it's about winning and winning as a team. But, then again, people are human and not everyone can do that. And, we do know that JP has a reputation for having a personality that rubs some people the wrong way (funny isn't it that Losman was criticized for being cocky before his draft while Cutler is being praised for being cocky now). This could be the reason that the Bills are reportedly shopping JP, but, if it is, IMHO it isn't a good reason to be doing so if that's the only reason.

Now, DrewBlueFan might be onto something when he mentions that Marv may be of the opinion that Losman will simply take too long to come into his own as an NFL QB and he and Ralph Wilson don't want to wait that long. That could be the case, but, if so, then why not make a play for Culpepper or Brees or go more all out for top free agent talent. Sure it would have meant that Ralph would have had to lay out a lot more money up-front in signing bonuses for free agents, but, if the priority is to win now, you spend the money to do it now. You don't spend your money on young vets who may just be coming into their own like the Bills have this off-season because you have to know that it will take at least a year for them to gell into a team and that would give JP another year to show what he can do--so you don't have to shop him now. While this could be the reason, IMHO it really doesn't make that much sense, especially in light of M.Levy's comments about young QBs in his book, where he was much more patient that he appears to be in dealing with JP Losman now.

I've said all along that Cutler (and now Young) would be the key to the Bills' draft: if the three QBs all go before the Bills pick at # 8, Buffalo is likely to get a pretty good player that they want. If not, their choice is going to be much more limited. As it stands now, there is a fair chance that Cutler or Young or both will still be on the board when the Bills come up for their first pick. If the Bills, by downgrading Losman and seeming to be more interested in a QB, can prompt a team that really wants a young QB to trade up to insure that all of the three QBs are gone by the time the Bills pick, it will help the Bills to get a better player than they might otherwise. Better yet, if the Bills are looking at a two year rebuilding process, which it appears that they are, if they can get a team to trade up with them to take a QB at # 8, by making it seem that they, themselves, want to draft a QB, they can ask for more in return for trading out of that spot and, who knows, they might get what they ask for.

An additional side benefit of doing this would, as carybillsfan pointed out, be to possibly light a fire under JP Losman to underscore the need for him to come into the minicamps ready to perform a lot better than he did last season. And, why not try to do that? It certainly can't hurt and it might be just what JP needs to take his game to the next level.

Given the way that M.Levy and R.Wilson handled M.Mularkey and are dealing with E.Moulds, etc., it wouldn't surprise me if they are not doing precisely what carybillsfan has described. While I wouldn't go so far as to call their approach this off-season Machiavellian, they have certainly shown that they are not above using a bit of psychology in the way that they have gone about handling these situations. And, that being the case, that could very well be what they are doing with regard to JP and the team's QB situation right now. I tend to believe that it is--because that is the only thing that makes sense to me from a strictly football point of view and I still have to believe that Levy, Wilson and Jauron have been around the game long enought to know that that is the only way to successfully deal with things like this.