I'm sick of this Vince Young/Draft a QB talk....

[OpIv37]

1. The last thing we need is another QB who needs to develop. This franchise has a terrible history with that. If JP isn't the answer (and I'm still hoping he is), Marv and Jauron should have gone after a Brees, Culpepper etc rather than looking for another project QB. Now those guys aren't the greatest QB's in the world, but they're better than rolling the dice on another high draft pick that might not pan out.

2. As several people have mentioned here, the real problem is the OL. Any QB is going to look like garbage behind this crap OL. It didn't work for Bledsoe, it didn't work for JP and it didn't work for Holcomb. None of these guys are as bad as they looked behind our horrid OL. Before they give the QB carousel one more spin, Marv and Dick should give a QB the tools to be successful THEN make a judgement.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Why do we need a win now QB when our team is in a win later mode? It makes no sense. I am for keeping JP but if the current regime doesn't think he has it then I am behind finding someone else.

All in all I will be shocked if we do take a QB!

[OpIv37]

Why do we need a win now QB when our team is in a win later mode? It makes no sense. I am for keeping JP but if the current regime doesn't think he has it then I am behind finding someone else.

All in all I will be shocked if we do take a QB!


Well it's like this- if we pick a new QB, we're starting from scratch and we lose JP's 2 years of development (well, really 1 year of development). A new QB will be starting from scratch and will just add to the length of the rebuilding period. One of those guys I mentioned would buy us 5 years where we don't have to worry about QB.

[patmoran2006]

OP
I agree with you 90% of the time but not here..

I'm not sure JP has developed at all. He's been injured and at best shaky when on the field. Its a whole new staff and probably a whole new offense.. Whether we like it or not, there are people in that locker room who already dont believe him.

With or without JP we look ****ty this year.. If it were up to me, Vince Young (not your fav I know) or Cutler would be a Bill...

I hate that "rebuilding" term its a cop-out bull**** term to me..THis is 2006 teams dont need to "rebuild".. But if thats what it is, I want a strong QB to build around.

[DraftBoy]

Well it's like this- if we pick a new QB, we're starting from scratch and we lose JP's 2 years of development (well, really 1 year of development). A new QB will be starting from scratch and will just add to the length of the rebuilding period. One of those guys I mentioned would buy us 5 years where we don't have to worry about QB.


Completely disagree, picking a new QB now is probably the right move to make. JP has had 8 games of development time and fair or not thats what he's received so his learning curve isnt all that much above one who has played 4 years v. top D1 talent (which JP did not do in college). Like Thurm said we are not built to win now and the new regime obviously has no intentions of keeping around players from the TD era that they do not like. What exactly makes you think that if JP is retained he would A) win the starting job and B) get a fair shot at keeping it? You know how tight of a leash he was on last season, I cant forsee it getting any longer any time soon. If the staff and the administration dont like him then why in the hell would you want to keep him. I like JP alot and I think he could be something special in the league but I dont think its with the Buffalo Bills. Keeping him here not only hurts him but it hurts this team bc its obvious the team has no intention of making him the QB of our future. So please provide one vlid argument as to why he should be kept on beyond this point? Ill be waiting. Fair shot is not a valid argument btw if the admin and staff have no faith in him.

[Typ0]

I see there are still plenty of people moaning that JP would turn into Montana all he needs is "development time". Well, I'd tend to side with the current staff if they say it's going to take too long or he doesn't have what it takes....playing him isn't going to change that.

As far as Cullpepper and Brees...they are both coming off injuries and were going to demand big $$$.

[patmoran2006]

There are PLENTY of players in the NFL who have all the physical skills to be a good player, but lack the mental abilities that come with it.

ALL first rounders in the draft are gifted at what they do.. THe good ones mature into the players they are now. Others dont have it in them mentally.

Maybe marv has talked to JP enough to know its not his guy... If people havent bashed marv for signing a string of nobodies, then you cant bash him for wanting to change up the most important spot on the field, QB.

[ICE74129]

Completely disagree, picking a new QB now is probably the right move to make. JP has had 8 games of development time and fair or not thats what he's received so his learning curve isnt all that much above one who has played 4 years v. top D1 talent (which JP did not do in college). Like Thurm said we are not built to win now and the new regime obviously has no intentions of keeping around players from the TD era that they do not like. What exactly makes you think that if JP is retained he would A) win the starting job and B) get a fair shot at keeping it? You know how tight of a leash he was on last season, I cant forsee it getting any longer any time soon. If the staff and the administration dont like him then why in the hell would you want to keep him. I like JP alot and I think he could be something special in the league but I dont think its with the Buffalo Bills. Keeping him here not only hurts him but it hurts this team bc its obvious the team has no intention of making him the QB of our future. So please provide one vlid argument as to why he should be kept on beyond this point? Ill be waiting. Fair shot is not a valid argument btw if the admin and staff have no faith in him.

Good post. I would like to say though we dont need a first round QB. A guy like Croyle can be had in the 3rd and played WELL in the best division in NCAA Ball the SEC. I know he had an ACL But so have many others. All he needs to do is eat more and drink more beer to add some weight...Jim Kelly can teach him that :roflmao:

We need to spend the top picks on the top talent available on the LINES. It's Nalls job for now. Draft a Croyle or Jacobs and let them get as many reps as possible for this year. Then next year finish up the lines/ rest of the team and see if the kid is ready.

[Jan Reimers]

I would prefer that JP at least be given a fair opportunity to demonstrate whether or not he is the man for the job. No QB should be summarily dismissed after 8 starts.

Jumping to a Young or Cutler at this point makes little sense, in that they are as big a question mark as JP for the long term, but have absolutely no knowledge of this team or the NFL.

[ICE74129]

I would prefer that JP at least be given a fair opportunity to demonstrate whether or not he is the man for the job. No QB should be summarily dismissed after 8 starts.

Jumping to a Young or Cutler at this point makes little sense, in that they are as big a question mark as JP for the long term, but have absolutely no knowledge of this team or the NFL.

sure he should. Marv has no connection to the kid at all. Marv and co have to hear the kids name every damn day. Too much is being put into one guy. This is a further reason why we won't take a QB with #8.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

To say they've given up on JP right now is BS.

Mark my words. They are not giving JP away like someone foolishly claimed for a 6th round pick.

But if they can swap JP for one of the 3 top QB in the draft that they think is a better prospect than JP while still being able to address the O-Line/D-line within the 1st round (without giving up extra picks), I think they would.

[OpIv37]

Completely disagree, picking a new QB now is probably the right move to make. JP has had 8 games of development time and fair or not thats what he's received so his learning curve isnt all that much above one who has played 4 years v. top D1 talent (which JP did not do in college). Like Thurm said we are not built to win now and the new regime obviously has no intentions of keeping around players from the TD era that they do not like. What exactly makes you think that if JP is retained he would A) win the starting job and B) get a fair shot at keeping it? You know how tight of a leash he was on last season, I cant forsee it getting any longer any time soon. If the staff and the administration dont like him then why in the hell would you want to keep him. I like JP alot and I think he could be something special in the league but I dont think its with the Buffalo Bills. Keeping him here not only hurts him but it hurts this team bc its obvious the team has no intention of making him the QB of our future. So please provide one vlid argument as to why he should be kept on beyond this point? Ill be waiting. Fair shot is not a valid argument btw if the admin and staff have no faith in him.

1. The team has glaring needs in other positions- namely OL. No QB will succeed behind this ****ty line, so the team needs to get some help in that dept before they even think of developing a QB (be it JP, Nall, Young, Cutler or anyone else). Taking a QB in this draft will further limit the ability to do that.

2. There's no guarantee that anyone we draft will be any better. For every Ben Rothlisbergenheimenreiner, there is a Ryan Leaf AND a Tim Couch AND a Kyle Boller. At least with Losman we know what to expect.

[ICE74129]

To say they've given up on JP right now is BS.

Mark my words. They are not giving JP away like someone foolishly claimed for a 6th round pick.

But if they can swap JP for one of the 3 top QB in the draft that they think is a better prospect than JP while still being able to address the O-Line/D-line within the 1st round (without giving up extra picks), I think they would.

JP = 5th or 6th round pick tops.

[patmoran2006]

Someone, anyone tell me WHY we would take a QB like Brodie Croyle in the third round, another long-term question mark who's had every part of his body injured over the past two years?

This team needs a LEADER at QB. Option 1 is JP.. Option 2 is one of the big three in the draft..

[Jan Reimers]

sure he should. Marv has no connection to the kid at all. Marv and co have to hear the kids name every damn day. Too much is being put into one guy. This is a further reason why we won't take a QB with #8.
I guess that if having a connection to Marv is the controlling factor in these critical personnel decisions, the Bills should s##t can everyone except Moulds and the 6 no name free agents we just signed.

[dannyek71]

1. The last thing we need is another QB who needs to develop. This franchise has a terrible history with that. If JP isn't the answer (and I'm still hoping he is), Marv and Jauron should have gone after a Brees, Culpepper etc rather than looking for another project QB. Now those guys aren't the greatest QB's in the world, but they're better than rolling the dice on another high draft pick that might not pan out.

2. As several people have mentioned here, the real problem is the OL. Any QB is going to look like garbage behind this crap OL. It didn't work for Bledsoe, it didn't work for JP and it didn't work for Holcomb. None of these guys are as bad as they looked behind our horrid OL. Before they give the QB carousel one more spin, Marv and Dick should give a QB the tools to be successful THEN make a judgement.

I agree. The jury is out if JP will be a good QB or not. However, no qb can be good if they are not given a chance. 8 games behind a crappy OL is not a chance. Give him a season (~16 games) behind a decent OL then decide.

How does someone go from being a savior to being the equivilent to Rob Johnson in ~8 games in so many peoples eyes?

[justasportsfan]

1. The last thing we need is another QB who needs to develop. This franchise has a terrible history with that. If JP isn't the answer (and I'm still hoping he is), Marv and Jauron should have gone after a Brees, Culpepper etc rather than looking for another project QB. Now those guys aren't the greatest QB's in the world, but they're better than rolling the dice on another high draft pick that might not pan out.

2. As several people have mentioned here, the real problem is the OL. Any QB is going to look like garbage behind this crap OL. It didn't work for Bledsoe, it didn't work for JP and it didn't work for Holcomb. None of these guys are as bad as they looked behind our horrid OL. Before they give the QB carousel one more spin, Marv and Dick should give a QB the tools to be successful THEN make a judgement.

1. If Jp isn't the qb they think could run their system, they will find their Kelly/Bulger. Blow 10/yr. on Brees? Who do you think is running this team, TD?

2.Like I said on the other thread, OL will be addressed via youth. Chemistry in the OL takes time. It makes no sense trying to address it with OLD players who won't be here in a couple fo years. When they leave , are we gonna start all over again? Draft young and let them play as a unit for years to come.

[THATHURMANATOR]

1. The team has glaring needs in other positions- namely OL. No QB will succeed behind this ****ty line, so the team needs to get some help in that dept before they even think of developing a QB (be it JP, Nall, Young, Cutler or anyone else). Taking a QB in this draft will further limit the ability to do that.

2. There's no guarantee that anyone we draft will be any better. For every Ben Rothlisbergenheimenreiner, there is a Ryan Leaf AND a Tim Couch AND a Kyle Boller. At least with Losman we know what to expect.
The not guarantees argument..... No guarantees your way would work either...

[justasportsfan]

Well it's like this- if we pick a new QB, we're starting from scratch and we lose JP's 2 years of development (well, really 1 year of development). A new QB will be starting from scratch and will just add to the length of the rebuilding period. One of those guys I mentioned would buy us 5 years where we don't have to worry about QB.Jp's 2 year development? What development? Td may have already ruined his career. He may be damage goods in the confidence dept.

Jp will be learning a new system. Jp will have to learn how to be the next Bulger. A downfield qb. Something he almost never did last year. He's back to square 1.

[OpIv37]

1. If Jp isn't the qb they think could run their system, they will find their Kelly/Bulger. Blow 10/yr. on Brees? Who do you think is running this team, TD?

2.Like I said on the other thread, OL will be addressed via youth. Chemistry in the OL takes time. It makes no sense trying to address it with OLD players who won't be here in a couple fo years. When they leave , are we gonna start all over again? Draft young and let them play as a unit for years to come.

If chemistry in the OL takes time, what's the point in drafting a QB NOW? you said yourself JP may be damaged goods- if we don't fix the OL before getting a new QB, that QB's just going to be damaged goods too.

Without an OL, we're better off with the QB's we have- once the OL gels, then we can start looking for a QB. Of course, that only further extends the rebuilding process so we're back to square 1.

[OpIv37]

The not guarantees argument..... No guarantees your way would work either...

but it saves us a draft pick if we stick with the "no guarantees" already on the roster.

[justasportsfan]

If chemistry in the OL takes time, what's the point in drafting a QB NOW? you said yourself JP may be damaged goods- if we don't fix the OL before getting a new QB, that QB's just going to be damaged goods too.

Without an OL, we're better off with the QB's we have- once the OL gels, then we can start looking for a QB. Of course, that only further extends the rebuilding process so we're back to square 1.

Drafting a qb could make him grow together with the team. Just like Kelly , Hull , Thurman.

Manning and his OL.

Jp has a head start with Preston, Gandy but will be as much as a stranger with the players we will draft.

[don137]

Like I said in a previous thread how good would Kelly do behind this line? Show me a great QB and you will see a great OL. Look at Farve last year. He lost two stud guards and had by far his worst season. Yes, some of it is he is declining however he is not nearly as bad as he played

[DraftBoy]

None of you can provide a good argument as for why JP should be given another chance here when its evident that the current staff doesnt want him. Yes we will still struggle without a good OL, this is a well known fact but youd rather extend the rebuild process longer by letting JP take his licks then when our OL is gelled bring in a new QB? Bring them all in at once and build a good core to grow together, Im with Justa on this one.

[DraftBoy]

and Ice I cant see Croyle being there in Round 3, he has alot of teams that like him in rd 2. Miami, Minn, and Den most notably.

[ICE74129]

and Ice I cant see Croyle being there in Round 3, he has alot of teams that like him in rd 2. Miami, Minn, and Den most notably.
That would suck. Oh well, I am sure Marv has someone in mind. I bet we use the QB situation to move down a couple spots, pickup another 2nd. That could be how we get Croyle.

[Mitchy moo]

OP
I agree with you 90% of the time but not here..

I'm not sure JP has developed at all. He's been injured and at best shaky when on the field. Its a whole new staff and probably a whole new offense.. Whether we like it or not, there are people in that locker room who already dont believe him.

With or without JP we look ****ty this year.. If it were up to me, Vince Young (not your fav I know) or Cutler would be a Bill...

I hate that "rebuilding" term its a cop-out bull**** term to me..THis is 2006 teams dont need to "rebuild".. But if thats what it is, I want a strong QB to build around.

:bullseye: Worded perfectly and all very true.

[ICE74129]

None of you can provide a good argument as for why JP should be given another chance here when its evident that the current staff doesnt want him. Yes we will still struggle without a good OL, this is a well known fact but youd rather extend the rebuild process longer by letting JP take his licks then when our OL is gelled bring in a new QB? Bring them all in at once and build a good core to grow together, Im with Justa on this one.

Justa and DB have been on it all day. It's good to see more and more starting to get it.

[ICE74129]

:bullseye: Worded perfectly and all very true.

Wanna Bet? I bet we dont' take one of the top 3 QB's.

[Mitchy moo]

Drafting a qb could make him grow together with the team. Just like Kelly , Hull , Thurman.

Manning and his OL.

Jp has a head start with Preston, Gandy but will be as much as a stranger with the players we will draft.


That's right, we need new blood and a new attitude. If they aren't gamers and ready to play they need to go away, that's Marv's attitude.

[Mitchy moo]

Wanna Bet? I bet we dont' take one of the top 3 QB's.

I'll bet you $1,000 zone buck that we do, who wants some of that action?

[ICE74129]

I'll bet you $1,000 zone buck that we do, who wants some of that action?

I say the bet is we draft young I leave, we don't you leave. Now put up or shut up.

[Mitchy moo]

I say the bet is we draft young I leave, we don't you leave. Now put up or shut up.

If you were not on here, you'd commit suicide. I couldn't live with myself either so we'd both be dead. $1,000 Zone bucks on just what you said, are you in?

P.S. Yes I DO!! - Wanna Bet? I bet we dont' take one of the top 3 QB's

[ICE74129]

If you were not on here, you'd commit suicide. I couldn't live with myself either so we'd both be dead. $1,000 Zone bucks on just what you said, are you in?

P.S. Yes I DO!! - Wanna Bet? I bet we dont' take one of the top 3 QB's

Whats the matter skoob, you get 'fixed' when you were a pup? Take my bet.

[Mitchy moo]

Whats the matter skoob, you get 'fixed' when you were a pup? Take my bet.

Well, I offered to take your bet and what do I get? BS. Back up what you say little boy, then it will mean something.

[ICE74129]

Well, I offered to take your bet and what do I get? BS. Back up what you say little boy, then it will mean something.

Good it is settled. When Marv doesn't take one of the top 3 QB's you are gone. The board will be most happy.

[Mr.Reality]

This board sounds so much like the Lions board it's not funny.

That's not a slam. But you guys do have a lot of the same types of concerns.

[The_Philster]

sure he should. Marv has no connection to the kid at all. Marv and co have to hear the kids name every damn day. Too much is being put into one guy. This is a further reason why we won't take a QB with #8.
Marv had no connection to the QB who was in place when he came on as head coach yet he kept him...they did pretty well together as I remember

[ICE74129]

Marv had no connection to the QB who was in place when he came on as head coach yet he kept him...they did pretty well together as I remember

I like JP but he isn't a wart on Jim Kellys arse. AGAIN Kelly lit up the USFL before coming here. And Times were different back then.