Probably a naive question

[Mr.Reality]

I don't pretend to know all the details behind the Moulds situation.

But why is there so much negativity toward Moulds? For the most part, I thought he was a pretty good player for the Bills.

[RedEyE]

I don't sense a lot of negativity. Some, but not a lot. I think everyone is just coming to grips that he's on his way out.

[Pride]

I dont understand it either!

Moulds has been a solid contributor to the Bills organization for years... he also gave us a BIG break years ago when he signed his sophomore contract with the Bills by signing here for less money than he could have gotten on the open market.

People around here have such short memories...

[ICE74129]

I dont understand it either!

Moulds has been a solid contributor to the Bills organization for years... he also gave us a BIG break years ago when he signed his sophomore contract with the Bills by signing here for less money than he could have gotten on the open market.

People around here have such short memories...

Do what? We paid the guy a 12 mill SB just 5 years ago. Back then that was HUGE and still is for a signing bonus!


He didn't do anyone any friggin favors.

[venis2k1]

good bye and good luck. :sadbye:

thanks for the memories.

[chernobylwraiths]

Wait until he is actually gone. Then he will full blown suck and be the worst locker room cancer since Rob Johnson. :D

[Mr.Reality]

He didn't do anyone any friggin favors.
I guess this is what I'm trying to figure out. What'd he do? Underperform? Tell the organization to piss off? What?

[HHURRICANE]

I don't pretend to know all the details behind the Moulds situation.

But why is there so much negativity toward Moulds? For the most part, I thought he was a pretty good player for the Bills.

To be fair Moulds was a very good player. I was very disppointed in the way he played this past year and the Miami game really ticked me off. I wish him luck but I'm ready for a change. I think he will play better and I think the bills will get a badly needed fresh start.

[The_Philster]

Wait until he is actually gone. Then he will full blown suck and be the worst locker room cancer since Rob Johnson. :D
some are already saying stuff like that...

[Marvelous]

Won't ever hear that from me Phil. And mr. Reality it just seems tahtw ay because some power posters seem to repeat themselves. Moulds had a awesome career in Buffalo. I thought he was better then Reed and i watched them both from start to finish. Reed had all teh weapons & MOulds had crap. I will miss 80. :sad:

[The_Philster]

Won't ever hear that from me Phil. And mr. Reality it just seems tahtw ay because some power posters seem to repeat themselves. Moulds had a awesome career in Buffalo. I thought he was better then Reed and i watched them both from start to finish. Reed had all teh weapons & MOulds had crap. I will miss 80. :sad:
so will I...My first year as a season ticket holder was his rookie season...won't be the same without him lining up :down: I remember wishing him a Happy Birthday his second season when he, Quinn Early, and Chris Brantley came out after pratcice to sign autographs...and I remember the last Mould Show...got him to pose with Autumn before he and his bodyguard left after the show
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6df22b3127cce96db5b26dda900000016108AcOGrFo2buR

[YardRat]

I wish he'd stay...he still has a few good years left in him, and he's had a stellar career for Buffalo on some really crap teams.

[OpIv37]

I dont understand it either!

Moulds has been a solid contributor to the Bills organization for years... he also gave us a BIG break years ago when he signed his sophomore contract with the Bills by signing here for less money than he could have gotten on the open market.

People around here have such short memories...


and that's supposed to negate his big mouth in the locker room last year and poor play since 02?

Moulds had some great years in Buffalo and had to deal with a lot of QB and coaching problems in his tenure here. But he completely threw JP under the bus last year because he supposedly wants to win- if that's the case why won't he restructure to a more cap-friendly deal and allow management to fix the team?

He also completely overvalues himself- he's not nearly worth the $11 million cap hit we'd have to take for him. Basically he thinks the Bills should pay him cuz he USED to be good.

[Devin]

Yeah I mean the guy has been here through nothing but crap times, changes every year...etc. I really wished hed have gone to a contender for a shot at a ring.

IMO hes still got 2-3 very solid years left, had the miami game/suspension not happened hed have probably been knocking on 100 receptions again and another 1K season.

He will be missed.

[Devin]

But he completely threw JP under the bus last year because he supposedly wants to win- if that's the case why won't he restructure to a more cap-friendly deal and allow management to fix the team?


Because hes watched Buffalos ******ed management/coaches TRY and fix this team for 10 years.

[OpIv37]

you know what this is really about? Bills fans are fans of the TEAM before any individual player. Moulds' mouth and attitude last year, and his refusal to restructure this year, are seen as hurting the team and the fans don't like it.

Having a long tenure here and some good seasons during it does not get him off the hook for hurting the team now.

[Meathead]

Edited for TOS

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

you know what this is really about? Bills fans are fans of the TEAM before any individual player. Moulds' mouth and attitude last year, and his refusal to restructure this year, are seen as hurting the team and the fans don't like it.

Having a long tenure here and some good seasons during it does not get him off the hook for hurting the team now.

I think OP kinda hit it right here. And I think many regular people would just like for ONCE an athlete to show some gratitude to the fans. It just seems that when an athlete leaves a team, he does it with an **** attitude and we who have been paying his salary for so long, and cheering for him just would like them to be a gentelman and be thankful. Leave if you must, but doso with grace and gratitude.. If moulds just came out and said.... "I love buffalo and the poeple.. but I want to finish my carreer with a chance do win it all...so please forgive me, but I must greatfully move on now." I think most people would understand and graciously say good by. No one can think we are a serious contender in 2006 (though you never know) so we could part on good terms with an honorable man if he behaved honorably.

Just my 2 cents :)

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I don't pretend to know all the details behind the Moulds situation.

But why is there so much negativity toward Moulds? For the most part, I thought he was a pretty good player for the Bills.

For the most part Moulds was a pretty good player for the Bills and has gotten the recognition and respect that his play deserved from most, if not all, Bills fans. I certainly respect him for what he did for the Bills as a player over the years.

However, as someone who is "Old School", who played football, and who has been a fan of the team since its beginning, I was incensed by and reacted very negatively to Moulds' behavior last season when he not only refused to buy into the program put in place by the front office and coaching staff, but went public with issues that, in my opinion, should have been addressed internally before the season even started for what I perceived to be selfish reasons.

Now, there will be those who will argue that T.Donahoe and M.Mularkey and their staffs were all jerks who didn't know their butts from a hole in the ground and that Moulds objected to what they wanted the team to do because he only wanted the Bills to win, etc., but, in my view, that does not entirely coincide with the evidence or excuse Moulds' actions. T.Donahoe may have been a jerk, etc., but the fact that the NY Giants and Chicago Bears made it to the playoffs is evidence that his plan might have worked if Moulds and the rest of the Bills, as a team, had bought into his program. Moulds not only didn't buy into the program, but chose to publically lead a lockerroom revolt against it--which helped to sabotage the team's season.

In my view that might have been forgivable if, in the process, Moulds had not gone public with his objections to the team's program and, in doing so, thrown one of his teammates "under the bus" to use Op's term. If Moulds and others didn't want to buy into the program, they should have and could have addressed the issue behind closed doors with team management and, if necessary, the owner--that has been done and worked before. Or, if that did not work, he could have asked the team to trade him. But, that's not what he did: before the first game of the season he complained in the press about having to start over with another QB, musing about how much better HIS career would have been had he been in a more stable situation. Then, after his young QB's first road start in the NFL, he again went public stating that he and others on the team wanted to "win now" and did not feel that they could win with JP Losman at the helm--after only one bad game, he was willing to publically humiliate a young teammate and put that teammate in a position where he would have to wonder which of his teammates had confidence in him and which did not, something that could only serve to undermine his performance and development. Again, call me "Old School" or whatever, but you just don't do that to a teammate. Not publically.

One can argue about what Moulds' motives for doing this were: whether they were selfish or not. And, one can argue whether his subsequent actions, including those leading to his suspension, etc. were justified or not. But, in my view, Moulds played a large role in the disaster that was the Bills' season last year and, worse yet, violated a cardinal rule that is essential to the success of any team by going out of his way to publically humiliate a young, inexperienced teammate. You don't have to like your teammates, you don't have to have confidence in their ability or believe that you can win with them or want to follow them, but you don't go to the press and make an issue of that publically--you can say it behind closed doors or off the record all you want, but not for publication--because, as T.O. found out, that falls under "conduct detrimental to the team" and it is considered "conduct detrimental to the team" because, as the Bills' season proved, it is.

Now, does that mean that Moulds was not a good player for the Bills all of those prior years or that he can't be a good player? No. Eric Moulds played well enough for the Bills to be their # 2 all-time receiver and should be respected for having done that for the Bills. And, he is likely to continue to be a pretty good player for another couple of years with whatever team he ends up going to. But, if the Bills are going to recover from last year's disaster, I believe that it is very important that he not be in a Bills uniform this season. Not because the Bills can't use him--he will be a big loss because the Bills currently do not have a wide receiver who can replace him--but because it is essential to send a message to those players who remain with the team from last season that it is unacceptable for any player on the team to handle any objections or complaints that he had in a similar manner. In that sense, I see letting Moulds go as being addition by subtraction.

It is not personal and it is not a comment on the way that Moulds performed for the Bills on the field over the years: Eric Moulds has been a very good player for the Bills during his career and may be a very nice guy who deserves to win a title before he retires. But, IMHO what he did last season not only hurt the team, but was unacceptable and it is in the best interests of the team to let him go at this point. You can call that "negativity" if you want, but that's just how I see it.

[Bill Brasky]

supposedly wants to win- if that's the case why won't he restructure to a more cap-friendly deal and allow management to fix the team?

He also completely overvalues himself- he's not nearly worth the $11 million cap hit we'd have to take for him.
Both great points.

Furthermore... if he wants to win... why go to HOUSTON?! They were worse than the Bills last year. Of course once they add Moulds and Bush that offense will be pretty damn good. I think Moulds/Johnson is the combo that brings David Carr out of his shell, but that team still has too many question marks on the OLine... They will basically be the Bills of 2004... good defense, great offensive weapons, but no Line to make the team a powerhouse.

He will put up the same numbers in Houston, but they're not going to the Super Bowl, so by him saying he wants to win - after he wouldn't restructure to help us rebuild (which is understandable after he's already redone his deal here several times) - and now by him going to Houston... I don't believe him. I think he was just ready to get the hell out of here.

This guy is going to a leave a huge hole in an already depleted offense. The Bills basically just lost their most reliable weapon...

Now that Moulds is gone my new favorite Bill is......... BRIAN MOORMAN!

[The_Philster]

Nothing will bring Carr out of his shell until he gets some protection

[Bill Brasky]

I hear an echo... echo... echo...

[don137]

The same thing happened to Hasek. He dissed the Sabres organization and wanted out so fans turned sour on him. The Sabres and Bills are huge in Buffalo and when one of your own starts saying how they do not want to be here fans take it very personally. I think people would not be as harsh on Moulds if he insisted on only going to a winner however the fact that he will take a paycut and go to a team that was 2-14 last year just throws salt on the wound.

[Historian]

I think OP kinda hit it right here. And I think many regular people would just like for ONCE an athlete to show some gratitude to the fans. It just seems that when an athlete leaves a team, he does it with an **** attitude and we who have been paying his salary for so long, and cheering for him just would like them to be a gentelman and be thankful. Leave if you must, but doso with grace and gratitude.. If moulds just came out and said.... "I love buffalo and the poeple.. but I want to finish my carreer with a chance do win it all...so please forgive me, but I must greatfully move on now." I think most people would understand and graciously say good by. No one can think we are a serious contender in 2006 (though you never know) so we could part on good terms with an honorable man if he behaved honorably.

Just my 2 cents :)

Very well put.

And for a while there, most of the Bills player partings were pretty acrimonious. Granted, it's a business, and decisions have to be made, but don't underestimate how players talk...at the pro-bowl, school reunions, etc... Throughout the 1980s Buffalo was a wasteland, and nobody wanted to come here. The success of the 1990's seemed to cure that.

Then Williams and Donahoe act like bulls in a China shop. I just hope we haven't reaquired a bad rep as an organization again.

[HHURRICANE]

Won't ever hear that from me Phil. And mr. Reality it just seems tahtw ay because some power posters seem to repeat themselves. Moulds had a awesome career in Buffalo. I thought he was better then Reed and i watched them both from start to finish. Reed had all teh weapons & MOulds had crap. I will miss 80. :sad:

Uhh, I watched both as well and Andre was a stud. Don't ever tell me that Moulds was better. Andre knew how to always find the first down marker. He was a winner on the field. That little move that Moulds tries to make Andre mastered!! No comparison!!

[BillsFever21]

I don't pretend to know all the details behind the Moulds situation.

But why is there so much negativity toward Moulds? For the most part, I thought he was a pretty good player for the Bills.

Because he isn't elite but wanted us to pay him elite money for 10 yards a catch. The biggest thing is all the trouble he caused last year and the clincher is quitting on us in the Miami game.

He isn't exactly leaving on the best of terms. He has been talking crap and forcing himself out. He decided during the middle part of last season he didn't want any part of Buffalo and quit on us. Good riddance. Take your big 3 good years out of 10 and get the hell out of here.

[The_Philster]

Very well put.

And for a while there, most of the Bills player partings were pretty acrimonious. Granted, it's a business, and decisions have to be made, but don't underestimate how players talk...at the pro-bowl, school reunions, etc... Throughout the 1980s Buffalo was a wasteland, and nobody wanted to come here. The success of the 1990's seemed to cure that.

Then Williams and Donahoe act like bulls in a China shop. I just hope we haven't reaquired a bad rep as an organization again.
I truly think we have. Marv being back in the organization should help repair that image but it won't happen in one offseason