My Last DRaft Pick Analysis...

[patmoran2006]

(I hope this is read before any conclusions)

Everybody who knows me, loves me and hates me (probably most) knows that for SEVERAL weeks I been on the Vernon Davis bandwagon.. Til this moment, I think he will change the way the TE is played in the NFL, and IMO he's the best player of this ENTIRE draft in the long run.

But sometimes you have to think just beyond the football field itself. Given what the hell is going on with this team, this football community and the POTENTIAL relocation of this team, my mind has changed (for the last time) on who this football teams needs to draft.

This football team NEEDS to draft Vince Young or Jay Cutler..

First, lets be realistic here.. This team, in the words of Jim MOra, isn't going to do "Diddly Poo" in 2006.. I dont care if we take Leinart, Brick, Justice, Davis, Hawk, whomever... It wont help this year.

IF there was EVER a time where marketing and in-house attendance for Buffalo Bills football was ultra-important, it is RIGHT NOW..

Now, for the most part the people on this board are smart and can disect a fourth-round potential right guard.

But for every person like that, there are HUNDREDS (the people who buy tix who's money is just as green) that dont. They just know the big names.

Young or Cutler are not only a potential franchise QB, but they at this time are also a HUGE and I mean HUGE Marketing and selling tool for the future of the Buffalo Bills.

We draft Vince Young and he put Buffalo's name on the NFL map, in a positive way. He will sell jerseys, put asses in seats, bring ESPN crews back to Buffalo, etc etc.. Same with Jay Cutler. The Bills organization NEEDS that.

If JP starts for this season and he fails, its going to HURT with attendance.. Same goes DOUBLE for Craig Nall..

Vince Young or Cutler flat-out Makes the bills matter league-wide again, and it sells THOUSANDS of casual fans (again, their money is as green as ours) on hope for the future alot more than any tackle, or tight end does with a top ten pick.

Now if this CBA **** wasnt such a mess, I'd say no-way, you take DAvis, or Huff or Justice.. But given the circumstances surrounding this franchise, this team TRULY needs a MARQEE draw right now at the box office, someone who the majority of bills fans will CARE about.

So now I say with this team in such doubt, you TAKE the Franchise (and very marketable) Quarterback and after him you do everything you can to build your team around him.

I guess the biggest point i'm trying to make is the majority of Bills fans, IMO given the circumstances are NOT going to be patient with a Losman or Nall and ESPECIALLY Holcomb leading the reigns of a currently bad football team.

Oh ya, not too mention, both Cutler or Young could be unbelievable QB's in this league who not only help the bills in terms of fans in the seats and merchanside.. But utlimately wins on the FOOTBALL field over 2-3 years.

Both these guys are going to be GREAT QB's, IMO.. They aint no gimmick picks.. They are also guys who can be great leaders.

By passing on Vince Young for Winston Justice (or anyone like him), this team is now making a BIG mistake, IMO.

[Jan Reimers]

And Young and Cutler are going to be instant successes in the NFL, particularly behind an O line that will once again be shortchanged in the draft?

[YardRat]

I thought this was a thread about Mr. Irrelevent 2006.

[rschepise]

(I hope this is read before any conclusions)

Everybody who knows me, loves me and hates me (probably most) knows that for SEVERAL weeks I been on the Vernon Davis bandwagon.. Til this moment, I think he will change the way the TE is played in the NFL, and IMO he's the best player of this ENTIRE draft in the long run.

But sometimes you have to think just beyond the football field itself. Given what the hell is going on with this team, this football community and the POTENTIAL relocation of this team, my mind has changed (for the last time) on who this football teams needs to draft.

This football team NEEDS to draft Vince Young or Jay Cutler..

First, lets be realistic here.. This team, in the words of Jim MOra, isn't going to do "Diddly Poo" in 2006.. I dont care if we take Leinart, Brick, Justice, Davis, Hawk, whomever... It wont help this year.

IF there was EVER a time where marketing and in-house attendance for Buffalo Bills football was ultra-important, it is RIGHT NOW..

Now, for the most part the people on this board are smart and can disect a fourth-round potential right guard.

But for every person like that, there are HUNDREDS (the people who buy tix who's money is just as green) that dont. They just know the big names.

Young or Cutler are not only a potential franchise QB, but they at this time are also a HUGE and I mean HUGE Marketing and selling tool for the future of the Buffalo Bills.

We draft Vince Young and he put Buffalo's name on the NFL map, in a positive way. He will sell jerseys, put asses in seats, bring ESPN crews back to Buffalo, etc etc.. Same with Jay Cutler. The Bills organization NEEDS that.

If JP starts for this season and he fails, its going to HURT with attendance.. Same goes DOUBLE for Craig Nall..

Vince Young or Cutler flat-out Makes the bills matter league-wide again, and it sells THOUSANDS of casual fans (again, their money is as green as ours) on hope for the future alot more than any tackle, or tight end does with a top ten pick.

Now if this CBA **** wasnt such a mess, I'd say no-way, you take DAvis, or Huff or Justice.. But given the circumstances surrounding this franchise, this team TRULY needs a MARQEE draw right now at the box office, someone who the majority of bills fans will CARE about.

So now I say with this team in such doubt, you TAKE the Franchise (and very marketable) Quarterback and after him you do everything you can to build your team around him.

I guess the biggest point i'm trying to make is the majority of Bills fans, IMO given the circumstances are NOT going to be patient with a Losman or Nall and ESPECIALLY Holcomb leading the reigns of a currently bad football team.

Oh ya, not too mention, both Cutler or Young could be unbelievable QB's in this league who not only help the bills in terms of fans in the seats and merchanside.. But utlimately wins on the FOOTBALL field over 2-3 years.

Both these guys are going to be GREAT QB's, IMO.. They aint no gimmick picks.. They are also guys who can be great leaders.

By passing on Vince Young for Winston Justice (or anyone like him), this team is now making a BIG mistake, IMO.

[rschepise]

Thank god you are not our GM. You are someone who obviously has no concept of how to run a football team. Enough about drafting a Qb and Vernon Davis (Two ******ed moves in my opinion). We have enough QB's and TE's competing, now let's give them a line so they can flourish in this new offense. We also need a two good DT's and a LDE. We have four options at the numer 8 spot: Haloti Ngata, Winston Justice, Tomba Hali, or Bunkley.

I could also live with Huff.

[patmoran2006]

Thank god you are not our GM. You are someone who obviously has no concept of how to run a football team. Enough about drafting a Qb and Vernon Davis (Two ******ed moves in my opinion). We have enough QB's and TE's competing, now let's give them a line so they can flourish in this new offense. We also need a two good DT's and a LDE. We have four options at the numer 8 spot: Haloti Ngata, Winston Justice, Tomba Hali, or Bunkley.

I could also live with Huff.

Thank God you arent the one who has to try and convince Buffalo Bills fans to buy tickets to the games on Sunday.

What do you think is going to happen in this stadium when the Bills are realistically 2-8 with Craig Nall at the helm?

[patmoran2006]

Thank god you are not our GM. You are someone who obviously has no concept of how to run a football team. Enough about drafting a Qb and Vernon Davis (Two ******ed moves in my opinion). We have enough QB's and TE's competing, now let's give them a line so they can flourish in this new offense. We also need a two good DT's and a LDE. We have four options at the numer 8 spot: Haloti Ngata, Winston Justice, Tomba Hali, or Bunkley.

I could also live with Huff.
And Im the ONE who cant run a football team, and YOUR the one who just mentioned draftin Tamba Hali at number EIGHT??

[socalfan]

The franchise isn't going to fall apart in one year....unless Ralph dies. So, why draft a QB now. This year the Bills will make it through without revenue sharing. Over the next several years they won't. So why not draft someone that fits better this year and worry about franchise players later?

[patmoran2006]

NONE of us know if this franchise is going to fall apart in one year, it very well could.

IF this is MORE than a 1 year project, then I have NO PROBLEM bringing in a franchise top 10 QB to run it..... I dont plan (hope) on us getting a shot at a top 10 pick every year.

And the draft is SEVEN ROUNDS and we have THREE other first day picks.. IF the best player is a QB, then he should be taken.

[socalfan]

NONE of us know if this franchise is going to fall apart in one year, it very well could.

IF this is MORE than a 1 year project, then I have NO PROBLEM bringing in a franchise top 10 QB to run it..... I dont plan (hope) on us getting a shot at a top 10 pick every year.

And the draft is SEVEN ROUNDS and we have THREE other first day picks.. IF the best player is a QB, then he should be taken.


I'd rather have that pick next year with some hope at Quinn. But, if Young was there at 8, it is almost impossible to not take him. I'm not so keen on Cutler.

[DraftBoy]

NONE of us know if this franchise is going to fall apart in one year, it very well could.

IF this is MORE than a 1 year project, then I have NO PROBLEM bringing in a franchise top 10 QB to run it..... I dont plan (hope) on us getting a shot at a top 10 pick every year.

And the draft is SEVEN ROUNDS and we have THREE other first day picks.. IF the best player is a QB, then he should be taken.


we have 4 day 1 picks

[patmoran2006]

we have 4 day 1 picks
3.. AFter our first, which what I meant if we were take Cutler or Young..

[patmoran2006]

And BTW.

My selection of Young or Cutler isnt just 100% for 2006 purposes for football for that matter either.. Its also about marketing.

For those of you simply want to dismiss that meaning anything, you obviously do not reside in Buffalo anymore (or if ever) and dont see the top of every local newscast nor go to into every corner bar and hear people talking about how little this team matters now.

Do I think just one quarterback who is a "name" changes all of that. Umm.. Yes I do.

[Mr. Pink]

And BTW.

My selection of Young or Cutler isnt just 100% for 2006 purposes for football for that matter either.. Its also about marketing.

For those of you simply want to dismiss that meaning anything, you obviously do not reside in Buffalo anymore (or if ever) and dont see the top of every local newscast nor go to into every corner bar and hear people talking about how little this team matters now.

Do I think just one quarterback who is a "name" changes all of that. Umm.. Yes I do.


While yes this maneuver will have fans instantly talk about this team and have the casual fan pumped....what happens in week 11 when the team is still 2-8? The casual fan then goes back to more of the same not caring nor paying attention. But we at least get the casual fan for a few games and we get a ton of money in from merchandise sales. Unfortunately it's a losing battle in the end either way. We draft say Winston Justice who yes helps us on the line, i agree, i don't think we should take him at 8 but he LEGITIMATELY helps us. The casual fan doesn't give two shakes about him. He doesn't sell jerseys, he doesn't put that casual fans' ass in the seat. Vince Young being drafted grabs the casual fan, people buy the jerseys, the guy who never cared about the Bills so much as to watch them in TV then goes to OP and buys a ticket. Which works for the first 8-10 games, if that, unless the team is viably good on the field. Which we all pretty much agree realistically, this team is just NOT good. Check your homerism and wishful thinking at the door and think objectively. We're not good enough to compete on the field with at least 3/4 of the NFL at this point, no matter who we draft.

And this is why my pump up for Vernon Davis...hell at this point I think Marv should trade what he can do to move up to number 1 and get Reggie Bush almost, then the Buffalo Bills will matter to people outside WNY not named Chris Berman. Within reason to get up there. This isn't sacrafice your whole draft to take Ricky Williams. But anyways with Davis, he brings a NAME to the team, someone to market and sell jerseys. He also improves the on-field product. Teams can't load 8 in the box to stop Willis, because there's a TE to worry about. Teams can't float 3 guys into the general vicinity of Evans, which don't doubt it, it will happen with the rest of our receiver corps. And it gives JP a dump down target. Who is a young QBs best friend? The TE. JP didn't have that last year.

So tell me what you want, I agree with Pat...and seeing he doesn't know football, then I obviously don't either. If you want this franchise to make some extra cash to put into revenue sharing and maybe get the other owners to go, WHOA the Bills raised their merchandise sales 40% this year, we might be more easily able to get some support. If that's what you want then you cannot realistically want the team to draft Ngata, Bunkley, Justice, Hall...I won't even comment on Hall considering ever mock I've seen has him around 25. Like Pat said on that one, I'm glad you're not GM if you'd realistically take Hall at 8. Just what the league and public needs more things to laugh at our expense about. No thanks.

[ICE74129]

We arn't drafting a QB. Move, not move, tickets, not tickets we aren't drafting a QB pat.

You seem to think drafting some name QB is going to sell tickets. It will do the opposite. The fans are sick of first round picks wasted on QB's. Bills fans for the most part have a clue and know we need LINES. WINNING will make fans buy tickets.

Ralph has to build a winner which I don't think he can do now that he shot his mouth off.

We aren't drafting a QB.

[socalfan]

We arn't drafting a QB. Move, not move, tickets, not tickets we aren't drafting a QB pat.

You seem to think drafting some name QB is going to sell tickets. It will do the opposite. The fans are sick of first round picks wasted on QB's. Bills fans for the most part have a clue and know we need LINES. WINNING will make fans buy tickets.

Ralph has to build a winner which I don't think he can do now that he shot his mouth off.

We aren't drafting a QB.

???

I guess you buy tickets and go to the Bills games to watch the Left Tackle play.

[Dozerdog]

I don't even think the Bills know who they are drafting at #8 until #7 makes a pick

[Philagape]

Attendance wasn't a problem last year at 5-11 with musical quarterbacks.

We need to start turning around this franchise NOW. There is no way a rookie helps us this year, and there's no guarantee they ever will. Will fans come to see Vince Young on the bench? "Hey look, there's Vince Young holding a clipboard! That's worth $150!"

The best thing to promote the team is winning, and we have a better chance at that with a QB with experience. If we go with a rookie, we send the message that you can forget about the next two seasons, and watch attendance then.

[Night Train]

I thought this was a thread about Mr. Irrelevent 2006.

Didn't TD already win that ?

I'm sorry, you mean Draft day...

[alohabillsfan]

All I can say after reading all these posts is WOW!
Draft a QB to sell seats? To get attention outside of WNY, Insane!
How about winning, now that sells seats and gets the attention you so crave!

Now the hard part, hmmm how do you win?

object current status solution
1) Run the ball- can't no line- draft o-line
2) Stop the run- can't no DT draft d-line
3) sell tickets can't hire Tom Donahoe use #1 to drafy sexy pick then trade our number 2 and next years number 1 to take another guy we don't need and most likley blown his knee up 3 times! :bullseye:

[mayotm]

Thank God you arent the one who has to try and convince Buffalo Bills fans to buy tickets to the games on Sunday.

What do you think is going to happen in this stadium when the Bills are realistically 2-8 with Craig Nall at the helm?We just got rid of a GM that was more concerned with selling tickets than winning. Hopefully, Marv is more concerned with winning. We have a young quaterback to develop. Why bring in another? JP played in 8 games behind a terrible line last year. Isn't it a bit premature to give up on him?

[venis2k1]

1998- first round pick for Rob Johnson
1998- third round pick for Rob Johnson
2003- first round pick for Drew Bledsoe
2004- second round pick for Losman
2005- first round pick for Losman
2006- first round pick for Young????

Doug Flutie....Priceless.

[The_Philster]

We arn't drafting a QB. Move, not move, tickets, not tickets we aren't drafting a QB pat.

You seem to think drafting some name QB is going to sell tickets. It will do the opposite. The fans are sick of first round picks wasted on QB's. Bills fans for the most part have a clue and know we need LINES. WINNING will make fans buy tickets.

Ralph has to build a winner which I don't think he can do now that he shot his mouth off.

We aren't drafting a QB.:bf1:
Bills fans, for the most part, are smarter than to think that a big name is going to win more games..or at least the ones I know are.

[Mr. Pink]

:bf1:
Bills fans, for the most part, are smarter than to think that a big name is going to win more games..or at least the ones I know are.


Philster, the point was to get the casual fan more interested...The hardcore fan you, I and pretty much everyone else on this board realizes what the team really needs. But lets' face it here Vince Young, Jay Cutler or Vernon Davis grab the casual fans' attention more than Winston Justice, Brick, Ngata or Bunkley. And sell a lot more jerseys on top of it, which creates more revenue.

[Philagape]

Again, will fans -- casual or hardcore -- pay to see Vince Young on the bench?

[Mr. Pink]

Again, will fans -- casual or hardcore -- pay to see Vince Young on the bench?

With this team and it's mess at QB, Vince Young wouldn't be on the bench long if at all IMO.

And people would go out the day his jersey is available and buy it, hardcore, casual, vince young fan or otherwise.

[Philagape]

It would take at least a year for Young to learn NFL defenses, if he ever does. If he saw the field his rookie year, he would suck worse than anything he replaced. If you thought JP struggled last year, you ain't seen nothing yet.

And I doubt jersey sales is a prominent factor in draft war rooms.

[Mr. Pink]

It would take at least a year for Young to learn NFL defenses, if he ever does. If he saw the field his rookie year, he would suck worse than anything he replaced. If you thought JP struggled last year, you ain't seen nothing yet.

And I doubt jersey sales is a prominent factor in draft war rooms.


Jersey sales do effect marketing and revenues...You can market a team a lot better with a "franchise" QB than a "franchise" DT. I'm sure we'll both agree to that. Especially with so much of the fanbase claiming JP is terrible.

[The_Philster]

Jersey sales do effect marketing and revenues...You can market a team a lot better with a "franchise" QB than a "franchise" DT. I'm sure we'll both agree to that. Especially with so much of the fanbase claiming JP is terrible.
and they'll claim the same thing about Young too

[patmoran2006]

First of all this has turned into 100% Vince Young talk when the odds are that it will be Jay Cutler who could be on the board at eight.

and I THINK that if he is there, and Marv likes him.. that he could and should pull the trigger..

more fans will be on board with a rebuilding project being led by Cutler than Losman or especially Nall, imo

[Mr. Pink]

and they'll claim the same thing about Young too

While this may be true if he's terrible, it will help with marketing for a year and increase merchandise revenue for a year. I'm more likely to go with if he is terrible and shows signs of "getting it" the fans-casual to hardcore will go "he played for Texas, led them to a championship, dominated college football he has the ability just needs players around him." JP went to a school that I'm willing to bet that 95% of the fanbase of the team never followed or cared about. But I'm willing to bet that 95% has seen Vince Young play at least once.

All of this moot anyways, because I think Vince Young will be a Titan on draft day. Just the point was it pumps up the casual fan more to hear the team draft a "franchise QB" over a "franchise DT."

[The_Philster]

marketing for a year is all that'll get. then we're back to square one the following year. Do we draft another QB in the first round hoping we get lucky and find one who'll be able to be good as a rookie? When does it end?

[patmoran2006]

If a QB is a SURE-fire Top Ten pick, history says he'll be a good QB in the NFL. Sure you can list some bums like Ryan Leaf, but I can list many more who went on to be great.. There is a reason why they are top ten QB's..

Also, you dont get many chances to get a franchise QB in the draft, unless you continually suck, something I hope the Bills dont plan on continuing to do.. I dont even think the most optimistic fan expects the Bills to do anything anyway this year (record-wise).. SO why not take your shot with a potential Rothleisberger or Brady type of QB. Forget about 2006, this isn't a built for 2006 team... Young OR Cutler are likely to be very good QB's and being a resident of Buffalo and seeing first hand what goes on here daily regarding the Bills, the marketing aspect of it is also a big plus, bigger than you might think. Fans need a reason to get excited about this team again.

[Yasgur's Farm]

80% of Bills fans (according to almost every poll I've seen) want JP to start. Starting him will sell the tix.

[Philagape]

Here are the QBs drafted in the top 10 from 1982 to 2003. I divided them into three groups:

Stars: Carson Palmer, Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb, Peyton Manning, Steve McNair, Troy Aikman, John Elway. Seven.

Good but not great: Byron Leftwich, Trent Dilfer, Drew Bledsoe, Jeff George, Vinny Testaverde, Jim Everett, Jim McMahon, Kerry Collins. Eight.

Busts: David Carr (so far), Joey Harrington (so far), Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, David Klingler, Andre Ware, Kelly Stouffer, Todd Blackledge, Art Schlichter. Twelve.

[patmoran2006]

Good analysis..

Two of the "good but not great" QB's led their team to a Super Bowl (Dilfer and McMahon)..

David Carr's best football is ahead of him, and you can argue the same for Joey Harrington.

There's no guarentee Cutler or Young will be a great QB.. Of course there is no guarentee that Bush or Brick wont be a bust either... The draft is a crapshoot and the good GM's hit more than they miss..

[Mr. Pink]

Good analysis..

Two of the "good but not great" QB's led their team to a Super Bowl (Dilfer and McMahon)..




Patrick, come on now, these guys BOTH benefitted from the two best defenses of the past 25 years. Although I will say this Jimmy Mac was the TOUGHEST SOB to play QB. And the headbands ruled, even if Pete didn't agree to it. Rozelle was by far my favorite headband. :rofl:

[Bert102176]

well since Kevin Everett can't stay healthy I hope we draft Davis but I think he'll be gone when the 49ers draft

[Philagape]

Good analysis..

Two of the "good but not great" QB's led their team to a Super Bowl (Dilfer and McMahon)..

David Carr's best football is ahead of him, and you can argue the same for Joey Harrington.

I would say the Bears and Ravens were led by their defenses.

I'm confident in Carr but not Harrington

[Bert102176]

Pat, I wish we would try to get Joey Harrington although I support JP