maybe marv is getting senile

[patmoran2006]

Peerless Price... Aaron Gibson.........Matt Bowens. Good starters, in 2003?
Craig Nall 2003 MVP.. of the NFLE.

Josh Reed and Ryan Denney.. Good prospects.. in 2003.


Does Marv know it's 2006?
Just wondering.

[BillsFever21]

Peerless Price... Aaron Gibson.........Matt Bowens. Good starters, in 2003?
Craig Nall 2003 MVP.. of the NFLE.

Josh Reed and Ryan Denney.. Good prospects.. in 2003.


Does Marv know it's 2006?
Just wondering.

Your answer is as good as mine. I can handle giving Gibson a chance if it's cheap. Knowing Marv it's probably a 4yr 10 million dollar contract with a 2.5-3 million dollar bonus like the rest of the junk. It seems like that's what everyone got this year.

Add up Bowens, Davis, Reed, Price and Royal and you have around 15 million dollars in bonus money in junk that could've been filled in the middle rounds of the draft for about 7 million in bonus money. Them type of players could've been had in the draft for 1/3-1/2 of that.

Not saying we could've gotten them but which way would've the money helped us out more? To give someone like Hutchinson a 10 million dollar bonus and an average of 6 million a year or to have about 8 million of bonus money and an average of 7 million a year tied up in 3 slot WR's that will be sharing time?

[BillsFever21]

I forgot to add in Denny's similar contract of 2.5 million a year. Is this the only contract we can negotiate?

What did we do write up one contract this offseason and just give the same contract to a ton of backups? Just keep a photocopy on hand and pass it down to the next guy.

[BAM]

Marv as a GM.

0-0.

[patmoran2006]

Marv as a GM.

0-0.
Jauron as a head coach, 36-49 (23-52 not counting his one good year in 2001).

What's your point??

Id rather draft ALL rookies than throw $10 million at guys who havent done squat in this league since 2003.

[patmoran2006]

BTW..

Gibson.. some no names and Peerless Price?

THIS is what we're doing with that $5.5 million we saved from Moulds?
I'm starting to think that Levy is a huge Brady Quinn fan.. Huge

[BAM]

Jauron as a head coach, 36-49 (23-52 not counting his one good year in 2001).

What's your point??

Id rather draft ALL rookies than throw $10 million at guys who havent done squat in this league since 2003.
If you'd like to go that route, we could throw in Marv's coaching record then I suppose.

My point though is that Marv has yet to have a game under his belt as the Buffalo Bills GM, whom I may add, is also most likely making these moves, not his buddy Dick. Your reply is irrelevant.

[BillsFever21]

Jauron as a head coach, 36-49 (23-52 not counting his one good year in 2001).

What's your point??

Id rather draft ALL rookies than throw $10 million at guys who havent done squat in this league since 2003.

These guys have already proved they are garbage. Instead of praying for a miracle turnaround by about 8 players I'd rather do the same thing.

Nothing like throwing 10 million each to about 8 different players who either hasn't done anything in their careers or haven't done anything in years.

[BillsFever21]

BTW..

Gibson.. some no names and Peerless Price?

THIS is what we're doing with that $5.5 million we saved from Moulds?
I'm starting to think that Levy is a huge Brady Quinn fan.. Huge

Way to spend that 5.5 million wisely. It's going to good use.

[ICE74129]

Peerless Price... Aaron Gibson.........Matt Bowens. Good starters, in 2003?
Craig Nall 2003 MVP.. of the NFLE.

Josh Reed and Ryan Denney.. Good prospects.. in 2003.


Does Marv know it's 2006?
Just wondering.

Drop it pat! The man has made some good moves. He is taking guy that can contribute and not kill our cap. I feel all of the above will contribute and do it well in this offense.

I think its funny how the coaching staff is excited about these guys, but all you do is ***** and whine. Esp when it is more than obvious the coaches WANT some of these guys here and that is EXACTLY WHY they are here

[Dozerdog]

Jauron as a head coach, 36-49 (23-52 not counting his one good year in 2001).

What's your point??

Id rather draft ALL rookies than throw $10 million at guys who havent done squat in this league since 2003.

Here we go again.


Does anyone smell "If you take away Travis Henry's longest runs"

[patmoran2006]

Drop it pat! The man has made some good moves. He is taking guy that can contribute and not kill our cap. I feel all of the above will contribute and do it well in this offense.

I think its funny how the coaching staff is excited about these guys, but all you do is ***** and whine. Esp when it is more than obvious the coaches WANT some of these guys here and that is EXACTLY WHY they are here

All I do is ***** and whine? Go back and look at your 10,000 Ralph Wilson posts.. You cant even agree with yourself.

[John Doe]

Peerless Price... Aaron Gibson.........Matt Bowens. Good starters, in 2003?
Craig Nall 2003 MVP.. of the NFLE.

Josh Reed and Ryan Denney.. Good prospects.. in 2003.


Does Marv know it's 2006?
Just wondering.

Its my understanding that we can cut these guys if they don't perform well.

If they do play well, then the team improves.

Pretty simple, really.

[patmoran2006]

You sign projects and possible roster makers AFTER the draft .. NOt during the prime of FA.

IF we sign guys in March/April only to cut them in August, that's pretty sad.

Camp fodder is supposed to happen in POst draft- June.. Not early spring.

[ICE74129]

All I do is ***** and whine? Go back and look at your 10,000 Ralph Wilson posts.. You cant even agree with yourself.

Yes *****, moan and whine. I can't wait till these moves pan out. Make sure you man up when they do.

And BTW, With these moves I actually agree we should possibly go with Davis now...and you STILL ***** and moan and take shots.

[Mudflap1]

Guys, what Marv is doing is not complicated. To start, he's being dealt the hand by Wilson that "we can sign guys, but I'm not paying outrageous signing bonuses because we are a low revenue team and can't afford it with the new CBA."

Getting that out of the way, Marv's plan is to sign a lot of young guys who haven't hit their prime, or young veterans who have a lot of potential that is untapped, and he is offering them a nominal signing bonus, a nominal first year contract, but good 2nd year, 3rd year, back ended contracts. The philosophy is -- if you produce, you stay, and you'll be well paid. If you don't, you'll be cut, and/or gone after the first year.

Pretty simple really. It's a way to go. Maybe Marv will fall flat on his face and we'll have a bunch of also-rans or never-bes on the team, and we'll go 3-13 every year. Or else, maybe he'll draft well, some of these guys (since he is factoring in personality and chemistry very highly) will turn out to be good team guys and, along with the draft picks, will gel as a team by the end of this year going into next year.

We'll see. It's a risk, but it's really the only hand he's got. So far, I think he's doing okay with the tools he's been given. Let's see how the draft goes, the rest of free agency, and judge the total package in August.

Jon

[ICE74129]

You sign projects and possible roster makers AFTER the draft .. NOt during the prime of FA.

IF we sign guys in March/April only to cut them in August, that's pretty sad.

Camp fodder is supposed to happen in POst draft- June.. Not early spring.

Who says?

[ICE74129]

Guys, what Marv is doing is not complicated. To start, he's being dealt the hand by Wilson that "we can sign guys, but I'm not paying outrageous signing bonuses because we are a low revenue team and can't afford it with the new CBA."

Getting that out of the way, Marv's plan is to sign a lot of young guys who haven't hit their prime, or young veterans who have a lot of potential that is untapped, and he is offering them a nominal signing bonus, a nominal first year contract, but good 2nd year, 3rd year, back ended contracts. The philosophy is -- if you produce, you stay, and you'll be well paid. If you don't, you'll be cut, and/or gone after the first year.

Pretty simple really. It's a way to go. Maybe Marv will fall flat on his face and we'll have a bunch of also-rans or never-bes on the team, and we'll go 3-13 every year. Or else, maybe he'll draft well, some of these guys (since he is factoring in personality and chemistry very highly) will turn out to be good team guys and, along with the draft picks, will gel as a team by the end of this year going into next year.

We'll see. It's a risk, but it's really the only hand he's got. So far, I think he's doing okay with the tools he's been given. Let's see how the draft goes, the rest of free agency, and judge the total package in August.

Jon

I will say it again. some other 3x superbowl winning team did the SAME THING when that new owner took over and esp when his new coach and GM came in. Let this whole process play out.

[patmoran2006]

Yes *****, moan and whine. I can't wait till these moves pan out. Make sure you man up when they do.

And BTW, With these moves I actually agree we should possibly go with Davis now...and you STILL ***** and moan and take shots.

Moves? WHAT moves?? I lost count how many times every Davis threads came up and your ONLY response was "fix the lines"


Signing Gibson FIXED the lines? I"ll let you slide though as I have been persuaded with other people's opinions as well on certain things.. Thats what a message forum is supposed to be all about.

Cool.

[Mudflap1]

Sounds like this is turning personal again...

Jon

[patmoran2006]

Not in the least..

[TacklingDummy]

Jauron as a head coach, 36-49 (23-52 not counting his one good year in 2001).



OMG, there's some WYS logic there.

Jauron as Head Coach of the Buffalo Bills 0-0.

[Jan Reimers]

Oh, I thought it was because he hasn't yet annointed Vernon Davis the Savior of the Franchise.

[TigerJ]

The overall size of the contract doesn't bother me. The risk in signing these players is in the size of the signing bonus. If the contract is for 10 million over 4 years, what would the signing bonus be, 2 or 3 million. If it's 2 million and Peerelss plays his first season under the deal then gets cut, the dead cap space is 1.5 million in 2007. That's the number that counts. That's Jim Overdorf's department, not Marv's.

I'm not wearing rose colored glasses, so I don't expect every one of these free agent signings to pan out, but if enough of them do we might be very pleased a year from now with what Marv has been able to do.

[Tatonka]

23-52 not counting his one good year in 2001).



are you ****ing kidding me..

I KNEW IT WAS YOU, WYS GUY!!

[Tatonka]

OMG, there's some WYS logic there.

Jauron as Head Coach of the Buffalo Bills 0-0.

damn it.. you beat me to it..

:posrep:

[The_Philster]

damn it.. you beat me to it..

:posrep:Dozer beat both of you, though
Here we go again.


Does anyone smell "If you take away Travis Henry's longest runs"

[Bill Brasky]

This is just absurd.

How can any of you say he's making good moves?

About 15 million wasted on guys like Bowen, Royal, Davis... now it's looking like Davis might drop to 3rd or 4th on the depth chart since we've decided to sign every WR ever born, and yet STILL have not addressed any problems on the OLINE. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS UNJUSTIFIABLE!

This team has 10 F'N WR's on the roster. Somebody forgot to tell Marv this isn't a track meet!

We've wasted a ton of money on crap players that are going to rot on the bench, be cut, or fail to produce instead of going after 1 or 2 guys that could have made a serious impact for the same price.

Un ****in believable that some of you are still trying to figure out a way to justify this garbage.

Combined with all the other garbage going on with this team...

WORST. OFFSEASON. EVER.

Maybe a 2-14 season will make you guys wake up... and then you'll probably find a way to spin that as a positive as well.

[Dozerdog]

This is just absurd.

How can any of you say he's making good moves?

About 15 million wasted on guys like Bowen, Royal, Davis... now it's looking like Davis might drop to 3rd or 4th on the depth chart since we've decided to sign every WR ever born, and yet STILL have not addressed any problems on the OLINE. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS UNJUSTIFIABLE!

This team has 10 F'N WR's on the roster. Somebody forgot to tell Marv this isn't a track meet!

We've wasted a ton of money on crap players that are going to rot on the bench, be cut, or fail to produce instead of going after 1 or 2 guys that could have made a serious impact for the same price.

Un ****in believable that some of you are still trying to figure out a way to justify this garbage.

Combined with all the other garbage going on with this team...

WORST. OFFSEASON. EVER.

Maybe a 2-14 season will make you guys wake up... and then you'll probably find a way to spin that as a positive as well.Tell me who you would have signed and how much



another *****er with no plan.


Unless the plan is to ***** ....then you're dead on. Should we have signed a center for $38 million like Clleveland? $50 million for Hutchison???

Maybe we can spend $50 million on Lavar Arrington.

[Dozerdog]

You can't fill 12 holes on the team with 2 big splashy signs.

[Dr. Lecter]

About 15 million wasted on guys like Bowen, Royal, Davis... now it's looking like Davis might drop to 3rd or 4th on the depth chart since we've decided to sign every WR ever born, and yet STILL have not addressed any problems on the OLINE. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS UNJUSTIFIABLE!



Wrong. Wrong.

The Bills have addressed the Oline.

1. Fowler.
2. Royal.

They still need more. Hopefully the draft provides that.

BTW, what Oline would have you signed? Like Dozer said, *****ing is fine if there is a solution. The only name I would have liked that slipped away was Neal. (Bentley and Shaffer were never real candidates.)

[Dozerdog]

WWWaahhhhh...I never heard of this guy so he must suck....WWAAHHHHH


Every year.

[LtBillsFan66]

I'm not thrilled with Marvs work so far, but I'm going to wait to see how the season goes before making my judgement.

[madness]

Any idiot can look outside to see if it's raining, but it takes a complete moron to think he can accurately predict future weather.

In Marv We Trust!

[TedMock]

All the pissing and moaning is getting absolutely out of control. We all hated Tom Donahoe because he went out and brought in big-name, over-the-hill players that made a splash in free agency. Now so many are mad at Marv because he brings in lessor-known, solid, players. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It kills me how utterly stupid some of these rants sound. People are calling the players we've brought in; bums, scrubs, losers, wastes, and claiming they all suck. 100% pure ignorance. Go ahead, and only watch the Bills. This will ensure that you will continue to feel that every player you've never heard of must be a scrub. Who needs to actually see a player perform when we can see all the "good" players on ESPN every night. If you're not in the pro-bowl, and you're not a showboat, you must suck. Brilliant.

Robert Royal - Very good blocking TE. We need blocking = good pickup.

Matt Bowen - Smart, fast SS who will knock your lights out. Can also contribute on special teams. Fits perfectly in cover-2 scheme = good pickup.

Melvin Fowler - young center with limited experience. Seemed to play well when given a chance. = Jury's out.

Aaron Gibson - former 1st round bust. Very talented, but has had an obvious weight problem. Out of football for a year, claims new lease on life. = Jury's out, but at the cost it doesn't hurt.

Andre Davis = often injured, speedy WR who can play inside and out. Fast 3rd or 4th WR signed to a 1-year deal. = Good flyer to take.

Peerless Price = As a #1 WR he stunk. As a starting number 2, he had 762 yards, 895 yards, and 1152 yards. AWESOME #2 WR. Sill under 30, chose Buffalo this time around. Has something to prove. = good pickup.

Now I admit, I do not like resigning Denney. That one I don't get.

Oh yeah, wasn't Bill Belichick 36-49 in Cleveland? You just never know, do you?

[Bill Brasky]

another *****er with no plan.

I've told my plan about 650000 ****ing times. Go read my posts before you lash out with a personal insult because you don't agree with my opinion.

You're a mod, you should know better. ****in crybaby.



The Bills have addressed the Oline.

1. Fowler.
2. Royal.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: you have GOT to be kidding me.

That might be the funniest post I've read all year.

[Dr. Lecter]

What is so funny about it?

Fowler will be starting at center. Royal is a great blocker who will make the line better.

[Bill Brasky]

and you are basing this on......

[patmoran2006]

Tell me who you would have signed and how much



another *****er with no plan.


Unless the plan is to ***** ....then you're dead on. Should we have signed a center for $38 million like Clleveland? $50 million for Hutchison???

Maybe we can spend $50 million on Lavar Arrington.

I'll throw a few guys out here, and if you give that "they dont want to be here crap" than that means our GM truly SUCKS and cant sell anybody on his football team.. Money and opportunity talk.

* Justin Hartwig, C (signed with Carolina)
* Daimone Lewis, DT (signed with Carolina-pattern)
* Reggie Wells, G (with all this cap room, I would have made it HARD for Arz to match, a "market" offer made it cake for him to match)
* Larry Triplett (the one we got right)
* My second round pick for a franchise QB, Duante Culpepper. He RUNS this team the second he gets off the plane, Im sick of this "is it Losman, Nall or Borecomb crap). Minny was trading him for the best pick, ours was better than Miami's. HOlcomb runs the team temporarily while Duante gets himself ready, and then takes his ass back to the bench.

Right there.. That's it.. ONE big "name" in Culpepper..

[Dr. Lecter]

Culpepper?

Meh. 1st off, he would have had to want to come here. 2nd, bringing a guy that at the time was undegoing a criminal investigation and shredded his knee is not needed.

And the Bills offerred Wells probably more than he is worth as it stood.

[patmoran2006]

Culpepper?

Meh. 1st off, he would have had to want to come here. 2nd, bringing a guy that at the time was undegoing a criminal investigation and shredded his knee is not needed.

And the Bills offerred Wells probably more than he is worth as it stood.

1- IMO Duante Culpepper will turn to be the most valuable off-season acquisition that any team made this spring, and that includes Bentley, Owens or anybody else.

2- Arizona wasted little time matching it, I doubt we paid him more than what he was worth.

[Dr. Lecter]

Arizona also had tons more cap room than the Bills.

[John Doe]

2- Arizona wasted little time matching it, I doubt we paid him more than what he was worth.

It could also be that the GM of Arizona had made up his mind how much he was willing to pay well in advance, and it was above market.

How much above market was accpetable to you on the Wells deal?

[patmoran2006]

It could also be that the GM of Arizona had made up his mind how much he was willing to pay well in advance, and it was above market.

How much above market was accpetable to you on the Wells deal?

If he's as good as Marv thought he was, and at a critical position of need, AND with plenty of cap room ourselves, I would have made it more difficult for Arizona to match.

[Dr. Lecter]

How would of it been difficult? The Cardinals had more room than the Bills did.

[patmoran2006]

Because if it costed them more, they might have had to reconsider as they have other needs to fill..

Last I checked, with or without Edge, they're still the Cardinals.

[John Doe]

If he's as good as Marv thought he was, and at a critical position of need, AND with plenty of cap room ourselves, I would have made it more difficult for Arizona to match.

Well, how much over market would you have been willing to pay for a guy that is far from being an all-star.

Give us a solid answer on this.

[Mr. Pink]

Well, how much over market would you have been willing to pay for a guy that is far from being an all-star.

Give us a solid answer on this.


Unfortunately in free agency most guys that have skill you have to "overpay" for in order to get them signed. Notice we haven't signed many high skill guys, the lack of them makes me really shocked that Tripplett signed here in fact. But when you're offering low contracts you're gonna get stuck with a bunch of guys that look like andre davis, melvin fowler and josh reed.

How much over market would you pay for this guy you ask? Well considering we still have about 17 or so million...you coulda throw an extra million to million and a half a year to the deal. It's painfully, and I cannot stress painfully enough, obvious that we have NO intention on spending the moolah to bring an all-star player here.

No offense, I'd rather go out and spend 7 million a year on a TO type receiver-who yes he woulda never came here to this mess of a situation, i understand, 5 on Keyshawn or 5 on Givens, and if Givens went to the Titans I'm sure he wouldn't care about playing here if we ponied up some dough to him, as opposed to 2.5 each for Reed, Price and Davis. Any one of those guys is a SOLID guy next to Evans, not an "if." Maybe you prefer pulling all these guys, I don't know. But with what we've done so far, we have now pushed that Parrish guy to 5th on the depth chart. We all know we're keeping Aiken due to his special team abilities so we're going to be carrying 6 WRs on the final roster, at least.