I am happy with the Bills

[Tatonka]

i have to say.. i am pretty happy with the way the front office is building this team.. i know alot of people dont like it.. but i do.. i cant say that i am unhappy about any one signing or the amount we paid any of them.

we are filling our team with a bunch of hungry guys that have had success in the past and will be fighting for starting spots to have more success in the future.. we are signing them to very reasonable contracts and locking them up for the next 4 years in case they do well, but are also able to cut the ones that dont do well without much of a penalty as far as cap hits.

our team will be young and i feel they are going in the right direction.

we have two young qbs.. and i fully believe jp will take over this year and not look back.

we have three young rbs.. willis is here for at least 2 more years.

we WILL finish our Oline in the draft.. i guarentee we will get a good guard.. i am comfortable with tackle and center at this point (i like gandy more than many do, but i have no problem with him starting.. and if gibson can fit in, then great)

our wrs are fast as hell and all should be coming into their primes. our TEs are a bit of a ? but, i have hope for everett and i hope we draft davis.

DL - we need one more very good starter.. possilbly draft, but i am hoping for a last minute, grady jackson, june 1st cut type of signing to suppliment the draft.

LB - hopefully spikes will be back.. at worst, our LB corps is what it was last year, with the emergence of crowell who i think will replace posey at this point if spikes is healthy.

DB - i am happy with our corners.. i dont mind vincent at FS, and i really like baker behind him. the more i look at bowens, the more i like him. when he was a starter, he was a good player. i am comfortable with him starting if someone is not drafted.

kicker - lindell did well last year.

punter - team mvp.

good work so far marv. :up:

[ICE74129]

Sarcasm?

[Tatonka]

i am being dead honest.

it really is looking very much like the new england patriots recipe.

[Ebenezer]

i am being dead honest.

it really is looking very much like the new england patriots recipe.
let's hope Dick is as good a chef as Bill.

[JJamezz]

I don't disagree w/ you at all T..

I think a lot of people are failing to see the forest for the trees.

[ICE74129]

I don't disagree w/ you at all T..

I think a lot of people are failing to see the forest for the trees.

I have felt the same since Marv started this process. I really like what he is doing and feel he is doing it right.

The others will see soon enough

[Devin]

I feel the same T, if we got a guy like Reyes then an impact player at #8 this team has vastly improved. Marv cut a lot of the problem guys, brought in a lot of cheap youth with tons of potential. Not to mention they all seem like good character guys.

Im not saying we are a superbowl team yet or anything, but I think its a step in the right direction.

[ublinkwescore]

Can I toot my own horn too?

I honestly think after the draft, we'll be a very solid team as well.

I hope to god we get Bunkley and then the best guards available with #2 and #3A.

Then after that, i could care less if we went BPA the rest of our draft.

[OpIv37]

I hereby dub this the "Rude Awakening" thread.

[BAM]

It was only a matter of time.

I'm on the bandwagon too, T.

[ICE74129]

I hereby dub this the "Rude Awakening" thread. For you, FTY And Pat maybe.

The rest of us see where this team is headed and like it. We also understand this is STILL a TWO offseason process. Fans think this offseason is it.

[patmoran2006]

IF its definitely a two-season process, then once Davis is gone I hope we draft Cutler and put an end to these triangle of clowns at quarterback.. This team is going NOWHERE without a great QB our OL is years away from being great.

[BAM]

You are right, Pat. Without a decent QB, we are toast again this year. For some reason, I have a feeling the OL will be addressed this season, as they have actually at least made attempts, unlike 'Hoe. Unless that is addressed, QB and O-Line are going to kill us again.

I guess I can't really say I'm totally "happy", but compared to the majority of posters it seems that I am.

[OpIv37]

You are right, Pat. Without a decent QB, we are toast again this year. For some reason, I have a feeling the OL will be addressed this season, as they have actually at least made attempts, unlike 'Hoe. Unless that is addressed, QB and O-Line are going to kill us again.

I guess I can't really say I'm totally "happy", but compared to the majority of posters it seems that I am.

TD made attempts on the OL too- Gandy, Anderson, Villarial as FA, drafting MW. He just did a terrible job picking talent.

[BAM]

No doubt. It looks like Marv has been at least on the right track though...

[Dozerdog]

I'm comfortable at this point on who we have signed.

I think Price is a little redundant after signing Davis- but like you mentioned- It's a low risk deal.

I am a beleiver in spreading the wealth around in free agency rather than blowing your nut on one or two big names.


I'm hopeful we can be a compeditive 8-8 next season building into a winner. I don't think it's an unmitigated disaster as many people paint it.

[patmoran2006]

I'm comfortable at this point on who we have signed.

I think Price is a little redundant after signing Davis- but like you mentioned- It's a low risk deal.

I am a beleiver in spreading the wealth around in free agency rather than blowing your nut on one or two big names.


I'm hopeful we can be a compeditive 8-8 next season building into a winner. I don't think it's an unmitigated disaster as many people paint it.
I would love these moves better if we had a go-to QB...........I think every single person on this board, myself included is underestimating the importance of our QB play this year.

If they're good, we can win 6-8 games and be a much better team.
If its ANYTHING like last year, we'll be LUCKY to win four games and thats no joke...

Our defense is NOT strong enough to "carry" us to wins this year, and I dont even want to think about out our offense if Losman or nall dont step off (Holcomb can jump off a bridge for all i care)

[Tatonka]

I have felt the same since Marv started this process. I really like what he is doing and feel he is doing it right.

The others will see soon enough

i am not going to say that i felt this way from the beginning.. i was very sceptical (not publicly) of the marv hiring.. and the first group of signings and the releasing of adams.. i was nervous..

i have not been one of the guys that has trashed every move.. i think i have actually defended more than not.. but regardless of if we sign reyes.. i like where we are going into this draft.. i like the guys we signed.. and i like the way we signed them.. meaning the amount and the length of the deals.

go marv. :up:

[Tatonka]

I hereby dub this the "Rude Awakening" thread.

i dont know what you mean by that?

:idunno:

[Tatonka]

pat.. as far as cutler.. why would we draft a qb that we couldnt say is better than what we have..

it is obvious that someone needs to step up, and i think it will be losman.. he is our best chance for someone taking over i think.. even if we drafted a new kid.

all drafting is going to do is put us behind another 2 years. we need to role with losman this year and see if it works.

i dont know why i am even discussing it though.. we are not drafting a qb.. not in any round. i guarentee.

[Iehoshua]

I agree with Tatonka. I don't think this team is in as much disarray as some of the DiscoTrish's of the NFL forum want to believe. Sometimes you gotta cut the fat to get better...

I don't have huge expectations but I'm not going to hang my head as a fan either.

[Meathead]

trust in the marv

u no th rest

[Philagape]

The offseason is still salvageable, but we need a killer draft. It's not so much what we've done that concerns me, but what we haven't done. The lines MUST be significantly improved. (Fowler's a start, and Tripplett's a start, but we need more)

[Drive 4 Five]

I would love these moves better if we had a go-to QB...........I think every single person on this board, myself included is underestimating the importance of our QB play this year.
If they're good, we can win 6-8 games and be a much better team.
If its ANYTHING like last year, we'll be LUCKY to win four games and thats no joke...

Our defense is NOT strong enough to "carry" us to wins this year, and I dont even want to think about out our offense if Losman or nall dont step off (Holcomb can jump off a bridge for all i care)

:madcloud:

The hell we are. Speak for yourself Patty. Basically what you just said is that every single person on this board knows jack **** about football. It doesn't take a genius to know how important the performance of the QB will be to this team. Those priveledged few who didn't realize that before sure as hell know it after what happened last season. Man the nerve...

[LifetimeBillsFan]

There's still a long way to go---a lot of positions to fill and a lot of potential directions that the team could go in to try to fill them---and there are still a lot of things that could go wrong---or unexpectedly right!---but I agree with you T, you can see that Marv has a certain philosophy and approach that he is taking and how the moves that he has made fit into that philosophy and approach.

Now, how much will it work and what will the results be this coming season? It is still way too early to tell. You've got to expect that, despite all of the best intentions, there are probably going to be some moves that just aren't going to work out all that well. Just as there are going to be some that may well work out a lot better than any of us could ever expect. So, I have to caution against anyone getting toooo carried away at this point because this is obviously still a work in progress.

And, that probably applies double or triple to the QB position. DJ and Fairchild have flat out said and we all know that the play of the Bills' QB(s) will be a key to this season (hell, everyone here has been arguing and debating about it since the middle of last season!). And, there can be no doubt that it will be. But, the QBs and coaches haven't even been together with one another for a month yet--they've barely had time to get to know one another.

Just as this team is being assembled slowly, I have a feeling that the coaching staff the coaching staff is taking a step-by-step approach to not just the QB position, but to assessing the entire team. If you watched any of the clips that were posted of the recent mini-camp on the Bills' website, there was a huge difference between what you saw last year and this year at this time: everything that they showed was a lot more basic.

Marv, DJ and Fairchild have all said that they are looking for one of the three QBs to step up and take control of the position as they head towards training camp. And, someone will do that. Right now, Holcomb has the advantage of his experience in adapting to different offenses, but he has his disadvantages as well and it is still very early on in the evaluation process. If none of the QBs performs up to the level that Marv and DJ expect their QB to perform, there will be changes--during the season and afterwards, I suspect. But, for right now, they have to play the hand that they have been dealt--and that only makes sense.

This year's Bills team strikes me as a puzzle that will only begin to emerge as more and more of the pieces fall into place. It won't be possible to evaluate the picture until it emerges and no one piece that has been revealed so far may look all that particularly impressive, but, like T, I'm not unhappy with the pieces that I have seen put into place so far. A playoff or championship team this year? I'd be pleasantly shocked, but I might need a defibrulator if it were to happen. But, a sound team and the beginnings of the foundation of a serious contender is beginning to look like it might, perhaps, be a possibility.

[Night Train]

Agreed.

Plus I'm confident that Draft day will be satisfying, without TD around to trump everyone and make his mindless niche picks that bomb.

[Luisito23]

Good post Mr. T. :bf1: :bf1:




GO BILLS!!!!

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

Tat, I like your optimism. You are an intelligent guy, so I am sure that you could look at almost every position on the team and see the negatives too, right?

So while your optimistic view is not likely to come to fruition, neither is the pessimistic view.

That leaves us with a mediocre season, and that is what makes me disappointed. We have suffered through too many mediocre seasons over the past 7 years. It's time to light it up. If not now, when?

For me the bottomline is that I don't have any confidence whatsoever in any of our QBs. Less confidence than I had when Bledsoe was here.
In my opinion, while we have some good pieces to the puzzle, we don't have enough to overcome below average QB play.

That said, I think we did make some key cuts. I think Milloy, Moulds and Adams were negative influences (Moulds and Adams had bad attitudes, Milloy just not the player he once was).

I'll try to stay optimistic, but if we get to camp and the QB situation is a three way race for who sucks the least, I think I'll go crazy.

[jdbillsfan]

I was happy with the offseason, up until we started paying these guys too much money. When the signed Josh for 4 years, I was caught of guard, but was thinking Marv and them saw something I didn't.

Then with Denney though, It seems liked too much. Finally with Price? I mean they are paying these guys multi-million dollar contracts, when no one else seems to be after them. Price and Denney could have been had for less in my opinion.

At first it seemed a little odd to be paying Josh and Royal so much money, now it seems to be a trend.

The players themselves I am ok with I guess, but they are definitely overpaid. If these are supposed to be young, hungry guys with something to prove, the contract is already in place for them to just take the money.

What other team is going to offer Peerless Price a 1.6 million dollar signing bonus? I think he'd be lucky to even get a contract after his last couple years.

[jdbillsfan]

One of the players I liked most was Andre Davis and he signed for the least amount of money and only 1 year. With the money Josh and Peerless got, he'll be lucky to be a #4.

[Bill Brasky]

We also understand this is STILL a TWO offseason process.
Assuming you believe JP will pan out...

If he tanks this year it sets the team back another 2 seasons at least, unless some top-tier QB goes into FA next year and the Bills persue him, which I doubt would happen.

You also don't build a solid, dependable line in 2 seasons. Maybe 3.

Everybody's hell bent on seeing Buntley, Ngata, Davis with the #8 pick... that being said, it's feasable to assume that the Bills will go with a OLineman in the 2nd/3rd rounds... Looking at the prospects, and combining them with the current roster, I don't see an extreme amount of talent that would be capable of fixing the problems on this line in 2 seasons.

As of right now, I give this team another 3-4 seasons before it is competitive.

Of course, that could all change tomorrow, next week, next month...

What is all boils down to is what the Bills get out of the QB position this year. Seems like they still don't know what they've got, and we as fans certainly don't know what we've got. If this year turns out to be a bust, it will be another major setback in terms of development.

If JP or Nall pans out, then next year can be completely focused on shoring up the line... if they both fall flat on their face, then they've got even more problems to fix.

[acehole]

I am happy also.....I like the fact Marv is tearing the whole thing down...and starting over. In the old days this took 5 years. We can really do it in 1-2 now with FA and draft. I am exited to see what young guys step up. Also I can wait to see the guys we get in the draft. I read we are using a scouting service...good move! Cost more but you get accurate grade on the players.


Are we going to the superbowl?

No. As we should'nt...but the guys that are will be in Cap hell and have hangovers by the time we are.....other players will know it and want to come here to be the missing parts by that time. Our young guys will be jorneymen or good players by then....and thats how it is done.

Sit back and enjoy it unfold!

[DarbyTheDinosaur]

Here, Here Tatonka! It is nice to finally see some optimism for our Buffalo Bills.

There are a lot of armchair QB's on this board (don't get me wrong there should be...that's is what this is about). It's just nice to see that not everybody is doom and gloom.

[ICE74129]

congrats to tonka on a hell of a post

[Tatonka]

i know everyone has doubts about jp.. i personally think that he improved a great deal from his first 4 games to his last 4 games..

what we saw in the miami game first quarter is what we will se more of.. he will improve even more from last year to this.. all the kid needs is time and support.

you will see.

[ICE74129]

i know everyone has doubts about jp.. i personally think that he improved a great deal from his first 4 games to his last 4 games..

what we saw in the miami game first quarter is what we will se more of.. he will improve even more from last year to this.. all the kid needs is time and support.

you will see.

If that is the case ( and I am not arguing with you, just asking your opinion) Why in the ever lovin hell after giving some equal reps in this camp, did they allow holcomb the meat of the snaps?

[Tatonka]

comfort level with a vet.. it is there first practice.. they want things to go smooth..

in the end... when all the speed is on the field and they see that holcombe cant do what jp can, jp will get the job.

[Throne Logic]

i have to say.. i am pretty happy with the way the front office is building this team.. i know alot of people dont like it.. but i do.. i cant say that i am unhappy about any one signing or the amount we paid any of them.

I recently came to the same sort of realization. I'm not super excited about any one signing, but overall, I feel better about the direction things are headed.

My one area of concern that you seem OK with is at the Center spot. Not sold on anyone on the roster at this point. I also like Gandy and believe he'll be even better if they stick someone solid next to him at RG so he can concentrate on his own assignments. Villarial can stay or go as far as I'm concerned. I've seen some good and some bad from him. I'd rather have, as you stated, a "young hungry" guy plugged in there instead. But whatever - so long as the overall result is solid line play so JP (or whomever steps up) has a legitimate shot to succeed.

[Tatonka]

i think fowler showed last season he can play.. and duke preston is there too.. between the two of them battling it out, i think we will get a good player.

i dont mind gandy and peters at tackle.. center and left guard (which is what i think you ment about next to gandy) was our week spot.

it will be addressed (LG) by the end of the draft.. it might be reyes, it might be gibson, it might be preston, it might be a rookie.. but anderson wil lnot be back i nthere.

[ICE74129]

i think fowler showed last season he can play.. and duke preston is there too.. between the two of them battling it out, i think we will get a good player.

i dont mind gandy and peters at tackle.. center and left guard (which is what i think you ment about next to gandy) was our week spot.

it will be addressed (LG) by the end of the draft.. it might be reyes, it might be gibson, it might be preston, it might be a rookie.. but anderson wil lnot be back i nthere.

Fowler can definatly play. He is a big upgrade over turnstile Teague

[Throne Logic]

i think fowler showed last season he can play.. and duke preston is there too.. between the two of them battling it out, i think we will get a good player.

i dont mind gandy and peters at tackle.. center and left guard (which is what i think you ment about next to gandy) was our week spot.

it will be addressed (LG) by the end of the draft.. it might be reyes, it might be gibson, it might be preston, it might be a rookie.. but anderson wil lnot be back i nthere.

Yeah, LG. Sorry. Too much yard work - tired.

I hope you're right about Fowler. I do agree that he's an upgrade over Teague. But that's not saying too much.

Main point about this: I definitely feel better about this team headed into 2006 (not that I'm expecting a Superbowl run). About 2 months ago I posed the question, "What do you need to see happen this off-season to generate some excitement for next year?". I really didn't expect to have much hope of anything. I now find that I do have at least some hope.

[OpIv37]

i dont know what you mean by that?

:idunno:

I mean the team will not be very good and those of you who think it is are in for a rude awakening.

[patmoran2006]

If we had a real go-to QB, I'd actually this team a lot more.. For the MOST part, i kinda am starting to feel the way they're taking shape..

But their QB's SUCK ASS, dont fool yourself.. MAYBE one of them will step up, but ive seen NOTHING TO indicate they will, and on THIS kind of team, you aint winning with no QB..

QB to me is the difference between us winning 3 games or 8-9 games

[G. Host]

Offense Line is more important than QB. A good OL makes team better both running and passing. Good examples are Chicago Bears last year and Ravens Superbowl team. There are a FEW QBs who can make do with makeshift lines and can thrive on them for a while (Flutie WAS one) but that is only until defenses adapt or QB gets hurt (i.e. Vick).

[Throne Logic]

I mean the team will not be very good and those of you who think it is are in for a rude awakening.

Not expecting good. Just pleased with the new direction.

[OpIv37]

Not expecting good. Just pleased with the new direction.

honestly, long term I think this is the way to go (IF we have a good draft, and with 10 picks there's no excuse not to). Marv made a bunch of moves that I'm not happy with, but the good news is most are backloaded contracts so if they don't work out we get out of them cheaply.

But as far as this season, I think the OL, QB, and DL situations are still too shaky to expect even a .500 season.

[jmb1099]

If we had a real go-to QB, I'd actually this team a lot more.. For the MOST part, i kinda am starting to feel the way they're taking shape..

But their QB's SUCK ASS, dont fool yourself.. MAYBE one of them will step up, but ive seen NOTHING TO indicate they will, and on THIS kind of team, you aint winning with no QB..

QB to me is the difference between us winning 3 games or 8-9 games
See here's the hing...Losman was in his rookie year last year as far as field experience is concerned. The question you have to ask is did he make some improvements towards the end of the season? As Tatonka already pointed pointed out he had. Look at what he did in the KC game and the Miami game compared to Tampa and NO. In the KC game he tossed two td's, Miami three td's. Now there is no way to know this, but I will foreverw onder what might have been had they allowed him to develop even further rather than pulling the garbage they did. So now he has some experience under his belt lets see what he can do with it. I believe Jp will do just fine this year, and with everything else that Marv has done along with the potential for a killer draft, we may be in better shape than some think.

[Tatonka]

I mean the team will not be very good and those of you who think it is are in for a rude awakening.

that is what i figured you meant.. i just wanted to make sure.

why do you come here? to discuss how bad the bills are? that cant be fun man.. unless your a fish fan, coming to a bills board to discuss how bad they are really is kind sadomasocistic, no?

[Tatonka]

and by that, i am not implying your a fish fan..just that other than them, who have fun coming here to discuss how bad the bills are, how can this be any fun for you here?

[TedMock]

The problem is that we as fans are all at boiling point because we've been bad for the last several years. However, realistically, we have to let the new regime lay-out their plan, and let it go into motion. This isn't going to be a miracle, turnaround season for us. The team is suddenly very young which equal more mistakes. I like the new direction, but we have to understand that this is a long-term process now. We're looking at 2 offseasons, not just this one. I firmly believe that if this team winds up with a 6-10 record, and shows steady improvement, we have ourselves a colossal success. Not only will we improve in 2007 based on current players, but we'll be a heck of a lot more attractive to any quality free agents. Patience, my friends, patience.

[ICE74129]

See here's the hing...Losman was in his rookie year last year as far as field experience is concerned. The question you have to ask is did he make some improvements towards the end of the season? As Tatonka already pointed pointed out he had. Look at what he did in the KC game and the Miami game compared to Tampa and NO. In the KC game he tossed two td's, Miami three td's. Now there is no way to know this, but I will foreverw onder what might have been had they allowed him to develop even further rather than pulling the garbage they did. So now he has some experience under his belt lets see what he can do with it. I believe Jp will do just fine this year, and with everything else that Marv has done along with the potential for a killer draft, we may be in better shape than some think.

Exactly. I would have loved for him to have played several of those last games. He would be much further along than where he is now. I love how MM had him not talk about his 'injury'

[Statman]

I hereby dub this the "Rude Awakening" thread.
Well, we will find out one way or another come this fall.

We've heard this for a decade now though.

[Meathead]

unless your a fish fan, coming to a bills board to discuss how bad they are really is kind sadomasocistic, no?


and by that, i am not implying your a fish fan..
its ok to question someones mental state but no way to you want to accuse them of maybe being a fish fan

[OpIv37]

that is what i figured you meant.. i just wanted to make sure.

why do you come here? to discuss how bad the bills are? that cant be fun man.. unless your a fish fan, coming to a bills board to discuss how bad they are really is kind sadomasocistic, no?

I see your point and I guess I don't know why I do it, other than it's a way to make the football season last all year.

Honestly, if I thought the team was improving I'd say that, but I just don't see it. Long term, what Marv is doing is probably the way to go- but this season is a sacrifice (and a necessary one- TD made such a mess out of this team that it was either start rebuilding now or suffer several more years of mediocrity before the process even started).

[John Doe]

- but this season is a sacrifice (and a necessary one- TD made such a mess out of this team that it was either start rebuilding now or suffer several more years of mediocrity before the process even started).

I don't see why people think that this season is a sacrifice. Judging by the moves made in the offseason, the Bills are trying to win now and build a solid foundation for the future.

[OpIv37]

I don't see why people think that this season is a sacrifice. Judging by the moves made in the offseason, the Bills are trying to win now and build a solid foundation for the future.

the OL changed one starter. The DL lost a starter and gained a starter so it's a wash. No one has stepped up at QB.

Those were the 3 biggest problems last season, and they're no better this season. You could argue coaching was a big problem as well, but all of our new coaches still have a lot to prove.

hardly anything has changed, and that's why there is no winning now.

[John Doe]

the OL changed one starter. The DL lost a starter and gained a starter so it's a wash. No one has stepped up at QB.

Those were the 3 biggest problems last season, and they're no better this season. You could argue coaching was a big problem as well, but all of our new coaches still have a lot to prove.

hardly anything has changed, and that's why there is no winning now.

This cursory look at what has been accomplished in the off-season does not address the intangibles of what has been an extremely productive time.

The o-line was in a shambles last year because of the unreliability of Williams at tackle. Now, Peters gets almost the reps in practice and gets better exponentially. That’s a big upgrade right there. We got younger and quicker at center as well, and Gandy has gained a full year of experience at his position. Gandy hardly missed any time last year – a very reliable player. Preston and Geisinger have a full year under their belts and should also be more productive. With a good rookie tackle to move into the mix and we should be all set barring serious injury. Plus we now have a tight end who can really block.

The d-line is only missing one piece and should get it in the first round of the draft (Ngata). Tim Anderson is going into his third year, improving, and will rotate in often. We have one of the elite pass rusher’s in the league. Kelsay is entering his fourth year and should be fully mature as a player. Despite the disappointment of Ryan Denney not turning into an elite player, he is solid depth. Spend a pick on a young aggressive defensive end and we should be good.

A QB really has not had any time to step up in a single mini-camp, but I think that someone will – Nall and Losman are both faily mature players now and if Holcomb wins out, then I have not problem with that.

This is not a throw-away year by any means.

Really – I don’t get why people are so down on this off-season.

[X-Era]

i have to say.. i am pretty happy with the way the front office is building this team.. i know alot of people dont like it.. but i do.. i cant say that i am unhappy about any one signing or the amount we paid any of them.

we are filling our team with a bunch of hungry guys that have had success in the past and will be fighting for starting spots to have more success in the future.. we are signing them to very reasonable contracts and locking them up for the next 4 years in case they do well, but are also able to cut the ones that dont do well without much of a penalty as far as cap hits.

our team will be young and i feel they are going in the right direction.

we have two young qbs.. and i fully believe jp will take over this year and not look back.

we have three young rbs.. willis is here for at least 2 more years.

we WILL finish our Oline in the draft.. i guarentee we will get a good guard.. i am comfortable with tackle and center at this point (i like gandy more than many do, but i have no problem with him starting.. and if gibson can fit in, then great)

our wrs are fast as hell and all should be coming into their primes. our TEs are a bit of a ? but, i have hope for everett and i hope we draft davis.

DL - we need one more very good starter.. possilbly draft, but i am hoping for a last minute, grady jackson, june 1st cut type of signing to suppliment the draft.

LB - hopefully spikes will be back.. at worst, our LB corps is what it was last year, with the emergence of crowell who i think will replace posey at this point if spikes is healthy.

DB - i am happy with our corners.. i dont mind vincent at FS, and i really like baker behind him. the more i look at bowens, the more i like him. when he was a starter, he was a good player. i am comfortable with him starting if someone is not drafted.

kicker - lindell did well last year.

punter - team mvp.

good work so far marv. :up:

I am happy with beer.















BTW, good post. Id send posrep your way, but panzys got their pantys in a wad because I posted an idea earlier.

[OpIv37]

This cursory look at what has been accomplished in the off-season does not address the intangibles of what has been an extremely productive time.

The o-line was in a shambles last year because of the unreliability of Williams at tackle. Now, Peters gets almost the reps in practice and gets better exponentially. That’s a big upgrade right there. We got younger and quicker at center as well, and Gandy has gained a full year of experience at his position. Gandy hardly missed any time last year – a very reliable player. Preston and Geisinger have a full year under their belts and should also be more productive. With a good rookie tackle to move into the mix and we should be all set barring serious injury. Plus we now have a tight end who can really block.

The d-line is only missing one piece and should get it in the first round of the draft (Ngata). Tim Anderson is going into his third year, improving, and will rotate in often. We have one of the elite pass rusher’s in the league. Kelsay is entering his fourth year and should be fully mature as a player. Despite the disappointment of Ryan Denney not turning into an elite player, he is solid depth. Spend a pick on a young aggressive defensive end and we should be good.

A QB really has not had any time to step up in a single mini-camp, but I think that someone will – Nall and Losman are both faily mature players now and if Holcomb wins out, then I have not problem with that.

This is not a throw-away year by any means.

Really – I don’t get why people are so down on this off-season.

You're nuts. MW didn't even start at the end of last year so I don't know how you can say that's a major factor. Don't get me wrong- I agree he had to go, but simply getting rid of him does not automatically make the OL good. Geisinger is a no-name who has done nothing. Preston got limited playing time last year and didn't do so hot. Gandy is mediocre at best. This OL is a LONG way from being good, and it's one injury from being WORSE than last year.

The DL was only missing one piece last year and it got us killed. The two-headed monster of Kelsay/Denney is average at best. Tripplett's a good starter but he's still the only DL on the team capable of starting- that's the formula that got us killed last year. Such short memories on some people...

Holcomb's arm is too weak to take advantage of this team's speedy receivers. Losman and Nall lack experience, and I think we've seen enough inexperienced QB's since Kelly left to know how far they'll take us.

The major factors in last year's poor performance have not been addressed. Add into the mix a big ? at safety and maybe at corner if they can't get Clements into camp, and this team is in trouble.


You are setting yourself up for major disappointment if you honestly believe what you wrote. I want this team to do well as much as anyone else, but when I try to look at it analytically, I just don't see how it's going to happen.

[John Doe]

You're nuts. MW didn't even start at the end of last year so I don't know how you can say that's a major factor. Don't get me wrong- I agree he had to go, but simply getting rid of him does not automatically make the OL good. Geisinger is a no-name who has done nothing. Preston got limited playing time last year and didn't do so hot. Gandy is mediocre at best. This OL is a LONG way from being good, and it's one injury from being WORSE than last year.


Young players get better (Preston and Geisinger, Peters). I am sorry that you don't accept that, but its true.



The DL was only missing one piece last year and it got us killed. The two-headed monster of Kelsay/Denney is average at best. Tripplett's a good starter but he's still the only DL on the team capable of starting- that's the formula that got us killed last year. Such short memories on some people...


I remember last year quite well. I think that we will draft a defensive lineman #1 and solve that problem. Again, we have an elite defensive end in Schobel. You don't need all-stars at every position. The d-line will be good.



Holcomb's arm is too weak to take advantage of this team's speedy receivers. Losman and Nall lack experience, and I think we've seen enough inexperienced QB's since Kelly left to know how far they'll take us.


Holcomb can throw the ball deep. He has great touch on the long ball. Losman and Nall are primed for break-out years.



The major factors in last year's poor performance have not been addressed. Add into the mix a big ? at safety and maybe at corner if they can't get Clements into camp, and this team is in trouble.



We picked up a good saftey. You may not have heard about it (its an honest mistake). Where did you hear that Clements plans to sit out the season? I don't recall hearing that he would walk away from $7 mil. It seems rather crazy, but if you have a link to any quote that he plans to do that, then you should post it.



You are setting yourself up for major disappointment if you honestly believe what you wrote. I want this team to do well as much as anyone else, but when I try to look at it analytically, I just don't see how it's going to happen.

I think that I can handle disappointment, if that were to happed. I realize that you are extremely upset and depressed about the Bills, but its not the end of the world. There is no reason that you can't live a normal and happy life.

[OpIv37]

Young players get better (Preston and Geisinger, Peters). I am sorry that you don't accept that, but its true.

Younger players SOMETIMES get better. Mike Williams never did. Josh Reed never did. So this is 50/50. You're counting on something that's far from definite.




I remember last year quite well. I think that we will draft a defensive lineman #1 and solve that problem. Again, we have an elite defensive end in Schobel. You don't need all-stars at every position. The d-line will be good.


Again, no guarantee that any draft pick will be able to step in and contribute. We traded Tripplett for Adams- that's at best a minor upgrade on a unit that was HORRID. We don't need all stars at every position- this is true. But we need 4 guys capable of starting and right now we have 2 (Tripplett and Schobel). And I wouldn't call Schobel "elite"- above average I could live with, but not elite.



Holcomb can throw the ball deep. He has great touch on the long ball. Losman and Nall are primed for break-out years.


check holcomb's stats- I can't remember the exact numbers, but he had something like 3 plays go over 20 yards in 8 starts. Losman had that many in 2 of his starts.




We picked up a good saftey. You may not have heard about it (its an honest mistake). Where did you hear that Clements plans to sit out the season? I don't recall hearing that he would walk away from $7 mil. It seems rather crazy, but if you have a link to any quote that he plans to do that, then you should post it.


Bowens is from here (DC). Good special teams player, hard hitter, but a little slow and hasn't started in 2 years. I don't think he's the answer at S.

Clements still has not signed the tender for the franchise tag. There were several articles about it over the last two days. I didn't even realize it was a problem until this week- I thought we locked him up when we hit him with the FA tag.





I think that I can handle disappointment, if that were to happed. I realize that you are extremely upset and depressed about the Bills, but its not the end of the world. There is no reason that you can't live a normal and happy life.

Well I, for one, am sick and tired of being disappointed by this team. So I refuse to get my hopes up until this team makes major improvements, which they haven't so far.

[OpIv37]

and here's your link on clements-

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/buffalo-bills-clements130406.php

[John Doe]

and here's your link on clements-

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/buffalo-bills-clements130406.php

I read the article. There is no quote from Clements saying that he will sit out the season and walk away from $7 mil. The guy who wrote the artice contends that since Clements missed minicamp he should be traded. He would make a very poor GM. It is natural for Clements to wants a long term deal. Who can blame him? I doubt very much that he will refuse to play with the kind of money that is on the table.

[OpIv37]

I read the article. There is no quote from Clements saying that he will sit out the season and walk away from $7 mil. The guy who wrote the artice contends that since Clements missed minicamp he should be traded. He would make a very poor GM. It is natural for Clements to wants a long term deal. Who can blame him? I doubt very much that he will refuse to play with the kind of money that is on the table.

the guys delusional- he thinks he's worth Champ Bailey money and there's no way Marv will pay it. He will hold out if he thinks he can get more. The guy proved how selfish he was in the 04 Jax game.

And one more point about young players like Geisinger and Preston. They don't get better by NOT playing and neither got significant playing time last season. Now, there is a very good chance that they get better over the course of the season if they play.

But the problem is our first 3 games are division games and 2 are on the road. We could end up in quite the hole while these guys are learning.

[John Doe]

And one more point about young players like Geisinger and Preston. They don't get better by NOT playing and neither got significant playing time last season. Now, there is a very good chance that they get better over the course of the season if they play.


Of course Preston and Geisinger can improve even if they do not play.

The whole concept of practice is based on it.

[OpIv37]

Of course Preston and Geisinger can improve even if they do not play.

The whole concept of practice is based on it.
??? they've been practicing their whole lives. They know the techniques. They're already in shape.

The NFL moves too fast, and no team practices at full speed/contact because they want to avoid injuries. The only way guys can adjust to the NFL level is to be on the field. Practicing is nothing different than what they did throughout college and HS.

[John Doe]

??? they've been practicing their whole lives. They know the techniques. They're already in shape.

The NFL moves too fast, and no team practices at full speed/contact because they want to avoid injuries. The only way guys can adjust to the NFL level is to be on the field. Practicing is nothing different than what they did throughout college and HS.

Let me make sure that I am understanding you here.

Are you saying that practice is a waste of time?

Scrimmaging will lead to no improvement whatsoever?

Do you really believe that the coaching that players receive in training camp is useless?

I think that your whole "I am depressed about the Bills" schtick is just a put-on.

[OpIv37]

Let me make sure that I am understanding you here.

Are you saying that practice is a waste of time?

Scrimmaging will lead to no improvement whatsoever?

Do you really believe that the coaching that players receive in training camp is useless?

I think that your whole "I am depressed about the Bills" schtick is just a put-on.

Practice is not a waste of time. It allows players to maintain the skills they've picked up over the years and learn the playbook.

However, technique-wise, how can you make it to the NFL without already knowing how to play your position? The only way you will see marked improvement in any player is if they're on the field.

We KNOW Losman can throw. But can he read an NFL D and squeeze a ball in there when a D is moving full speed.

We KNOW Lee Evans can catch a ball and run a route. But can he beat an NFL CB trying to run full speed right through him the second he catches the ball?

We KNOW Preston and Geisinger can move their feet and hands to block. But do they have the strength and intensity to push NFL D-linemen out of the way when they're charging full speed?

These things cannot be simulated in practice without risking injury. Only being on the field can answer these questions and allow the players to learn how to do it.

[patmoran2006]

I think at this point, this team is going to absolutely suck in 2006- I'm talking being in the hunt for Brady Quinn-suck.

I seriously doubt we win more than four games this year.. For the SHORT TERM, this team is clearly WORSE than it was last year.

HOwever.. I DO see where Levy is going with this.. I think in 2007 if ONE of the QB's steps up this is going to be a pretty good football team, and if we go out and get a couple of ingredients next offseason and have another good draft, then I think we can be that team you see every year that goes from worst-to-first.

[John Doe]

However, technique-wise, how can you make it to the NFL without already knowing how to play your position? The only way you will see marked improvement in any player is if they're on the field.



It's OK - I get it now. I understand that you are supplying a necessary function of "stiring the pot" and playing devil's advocate. You had me going there.

Peters was a tight end in college.
Randel El was a QB
Goldsberry was a linebacker but they are converting him to a fullback
Gates did not even play college ball.

I could go on and on about guys that conveted to another position before they took a snap in a real game, but I think that you were quite aware of them before you posted, so I won't waste my time.

You really had me going there for a while!

[OpIv37]

It's OK - I get it now. I understand that you are supplying a necessary function of "stiring the pot" and playing devil's advocate. You had me going there.

Peters was a tight end in college.
Randel El was a QB
Goldsberry was a linebacker but they are converting him to a fullback
Gates did not even play college ball.

I could go on and on about guys that conveted to another position before they took a snap in a real game, but I think that you were quite aware of them before you posted, so I won't waste my time.

You really had me going there for a while!

right, those guys are typical NFL players and Geisinger and Preston belong in their league :rolleyes:. What is it with people here using the exception as the rule? Just cuz one guy did it- or 4 guys out of the hundreds currently playing in the NFL- does NOT mean it's how it typically goes.

You're holding out hope that completely unproven players will make the line better. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? Definitely not.