Bills to lose $10 million this year!!

[Ebenezer]

I don't know what to make of this yet.

Bills expect to lose - money

Losses as high as $10 million are anticipated next season under new NFL labor pact

By GENE WARNER
News Staff Reporter
4/13/2006

The Buffalo Bills made a profit last year, but less than $10 million, team officials say.

This year, under the National Football League's new labor agreement, they expect to lose money, somewhere between $5 million and $10 million. And Bills officials fear their financial situation may only get worse in the coming years.

In owner Ralph C. Wilson Jr.'s view, the culprit, besides this region's struggling economy and declining population, remains the NFL's new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

That's why Wilson stuck his neck out in two news conferences Friday and Sunday, painting a dark picture about the long-term viability of the franchise. On Sunday, he acknowledged he no longer could guarantee that he wouldn't sell or move the team.

"It's a terrible extension [of the labor agreement]," Wilson said Wednesday. "It's really going to impact Buffalo and the small-market teams. It is really going to hurt us." This off-season, Wilson has had more news conferences than the Bills had wins last season. While observers have wondered why he went public, some theorized that he was trying to rally other smaller-revenue owners to push for more favorable terms in the league's revenue-sharing plan.


the rest:

http://buffalonews.com/editorial/20060413/1006576.asp

[Stewie]

so why did we give guaranteed money to peerless?

did he need 48 sets of new wheels for the escalade?

[ICE74129]

I wish ralph would STFU already. We aren't going to go from Millions positive to millions negative.

Man Ralph just sell and STFU already.

[Mr. Pink]

I'd love to know how the Bills went from 38 million in operating income, Forbes figure not made up, to low single digits in one season. With NO changes at all done in between. Now we're gonna lose money? With the TV contract dollars going up, which paid for the players salaries already as it was. Color me confused

[DMBcrew36]

so why did we give guaranteed money to peerless?

did he need 48 sets of new wheels for the escalade?


yes. :roflmao:

[Mitchy moo]

I'd love to know how the Bills went from 38 million in operating income, Forbes figure not made up, to low single digits in one season. With NO changes at all done in between. Now we're gonna lose money? With the TV contract dollars going up, which paid for the players salaries already as it was. Color me confused

RW & his accouting team are confused.

[ryjam282]

Maybe that is the reason we aren't landing some of the bigger name expensive FA's this year. Ralph knows he will be in the negative so he just wants to make this year's loss as low as possible before really trying to sell next year and get out.....Who knows.

[Buckets]

Only 10 mil this past year? Slould we pass the hat? I wonder how much he made in his first year.

The key here is "Team officials say"

[lordofgun]

I don't buy it.

If they went back to the old unis with the standing buffalo, I might actually buy some merch.

[ryjam282]

I concur, I LOVED those old uni's last year....

[Pride]

so why did we give guaranteed money to peerless?

did he need 48 sets of new wheels for the escalade?

Escalade?? Don't you mean Pinto?

This team is pretty far away from being called an escalade!

[Iehoshua]

Peerless is the one with the Escalades, I don't think it was an analogy of the team.

[ICE74129]

Ralph and his guys are full of SH#@. FTY has posted several times the Forbes info where we had like 36 mill over or something.

This team MAKES money. I tell you the more Ralph *****es the bigger a hole he is getting himself into. If the NFL and the NFLPA call his hand and prove him wrong, then he really has lost all credibility as an owner.

He and the staff better make sure they are 100% correct on these things

[lordofgun]

So sell the freaking naming rights to the stadium, Ralph! That's a wasted 2 mil/year and who knows where else they are missing out? I don't feel sorry for anyone who isn't doing everything possible to maximize profits.

[ICE74129]

And per some other article that was posted this week, ALL teams get nearly 100 mill from the TV contract alone! That pays for our players right there.

I'm sorry, but ralph is way off base here. I agree some things need to be addressed, but still to this day I don't feel he fully knows what he is talking about in regards to the CBA.

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

I think the deal is here that the Bills are going to lose 10 million in revenue this year, not that they will be running 10 mil in the red.

Big f-in deal.

So you make 24 million instead of 34 million.

But what hasn't been mentioned is the new television contract which must mean more $, right?

I don't buy it at this point.

[TacklingDummy]

I think Ralph knows more about what his income is then a magazine does.

[ICE74129]

I think Ralph knows more about what his income is then a magazine does.

The bills income is pretty much a matter of public record. He is just *****ing and whining he gets 20 mill instead of 30 mil

You can't take it with you ralph!

[Ebenezer]

would this make the Bills the only money loser in the NFL??

[Mitchy moo]

would this make the Bills the only money loser in the NFL??

There is no $ losers in the NFL, RW probably means he is going from $34M to $24M until they count season tickets. Then he'll be right back in action.

[Bulldog]

The article clearly states that the Bills will be $8-10 million in the red. That means if what they are saying is true, the team will lose that money after expenses are paid. There won't be any profit at all. I for one think Wilson is full of it, but hey thats just me. If he's going to keep *****ing about this, then at some point he's going to have to open the books for all to see.

[Night Train]

TV revenue just soared to more than counter all the increases of the CBA.

Creative accounting is being practiced and Littmann is Full of S***. There is a bottom line which even he refuses to explain. Posturing at it's greatest height.

My understanding is that Ralph is talking to politicians not about additional financial help but political pressure to influence the terms the CBA before final ratification. He wishes to keep the team in Buffalo long term and may finally be considering a sale. He wants the next owner to keep the team here and not get screwed by the CBA.

Not making this up. Some folks in the business community have heard as much. Hardly a coincidence that certain issues, such as a possible sale, were raised in todays Buffalo News. He knows he must act now. Hence all the high profile actions in the last 2 weeks.

[Ebenezer]

TV revenue just soared to more than counter all the increases of the CBA.

Creative accounting is being practiced and Littmann is Full of S***. There is a bottom line which even he refuses to explain. Posturing at it's greatest height.

My understanding is that Ralph is talking to politicians not about additional financial help but political pressure to influence the terms the CBA before final ratification. He wishes to keep the team in Buffalo long term and may finally be considering a sale. He wants the next owner to keep the team here and not get screwed by the CBA.

Not making this up. Some folks in the business community have heard as much. Hardly a coincidence that certain issues, such as a possible sale, were raised in todays Buffalo News. He knows he must act now. Hence all the high profile actions in the last 2 weeks.
I wish he would just sell and get out.

[Night Train]

I wish he would just sell and get out.

That's where the political manuvering behind the scenes comes in. As reported, There are certain qualifiers in the CBA the NFL is trying to explain ( or manipulate in favor of the high revenue gang ).

What was stated by Jeff Littmann was legit. He called for an explanation of several qualifiers and was told they couldn't give him an answer at that moment. Ralph smelled a rat and immediately started contacting politicians to put on the pressure, before final CBA ratification. He also realized that he may need to sell this team once acceptable CBA terms were presented to local businessmen, who definitely have an interest. His family has no interest in this team, beyond his life.

Ralph is looking out for Ralph but at the same time, he's definitely trying to sell to people who will keep the team here.

With what is happening with the CBA, Ralph is doing the right thing for the long term survival of this team in Buffalo.

We'll see if it works.

[Michael82]

That's where the political manuvering behind the scenes comes in. As reported, There are certain qualifiers in the CBA the NFL is trying to explain ( or manipulate in favor of the high revenue gang ).

What was stated by Jeff Littmann was legit. He called for an explanation of several qualifiers and was told they couldn't give him an answer at that moment. Ralph smelled a rat and immediately started contacting politicians to put on the pressure, before final CBA ratification. He also realized that he may need to sell this team once acceptable CBA terms were presented to local businessmen, who definitely have an interest. His family has no interest in this team, beyond his life.

Ralph is looking out for Ralph but at the same time, he's definitely trying to sell to people who will keep the team here.

With what is happening with the CBA, Ralph is doing the right thing for the long term survival of this team in Buffalo.

We'll see if it works.
Great post! :bf1:

[ICE74129]

Jeffrey C. Littmann Is full of SH!@. Period. he is ralphs son in law and the guy that got Bill polian fired. (yeah it was a battle between those two that lead to Ralph canning BP)

He is a fuggin Squirl. Mid single digits on profits? How the hell does Forbes have them in the 30 mill range and Littman in the mid single digits? Do these clowns now know the average fan can look this crap up let alone the media? Ralph and Jeff must think we are still in the 80's or something.

Just friggin sell ralph. Do us all a favor and GTF out!

[ICE74129]

That's where the political manuvering behind the scenes comes in. As reported, There are certain qualifiers in the CBA the NFL is trying to explain ( or manipulate in favor of the high revenue gang ).

What was stated by Jeff Littmann was legit. He called for an explanation of several qualifiers and was told they couldn't give him an answer at that moment. Ralph smelled a rat and immediately started contacting politicians to put on the pressure, before final CBA ratification. He also realized that he may need to sell this team once acceptable CBA terms were presented to local businessmen, who definitely have an interest. His family has no interest in this team, beyond his life.

Ralph is looking out for Ralph but at the same time, he's definitely trying to sell to people who will keep the team here.

With what is happening with the CBA, Ralph is doing the right thing for the long term survival of this team in Buffalo.

We'll see if it works.


May need to sell? Unless that old fart is out of the picture we are doomed.

[Nighthawk]

Listen, it seems to me that Ralph is setting it up to either sell or move the team. I find it hard to believe that the Bills will lose money. It just seems to me like Ralph is piling on, just to give him a reason to move. I hope I'm wrong, but he isn't throwing out this stuff for fun. P.S. - Littman is an A$$!

[Throne Logic]

The bills income is pretty much a matter of public record. He is just *****ing and whining he gets 20 mill instead of 30 mil

You can't take it with you ralph!

Your wrong. This info is NOT a matter of public record. Forbes and other organizations basically guess on the numbers based upon what they consider to be like-conditions.

For example, the article Eb posted refers to Green Bay as one of those like-companies.

[Throne Logic]

. . . at some point he's going to have to open the books for all to see.

This I agree with.

[Throne Logic]

And per some other article that was posted this week, ALL teams get nearly 100 mill from the TV contract alone! That pays for our players right there.

Again, how do you arrive at this conclusion? Are you just squeezing this directly from your buttocks onto the keyboard?

They player's actual payroll has almost NOTHING to do with the salary cap. If the stated estimates in that article are correct, the payroll for players is around $120 Million. Toss in the rest of the payroll for the ENTIRE organization, from the Administrators down to the ticket rippers. Then add your non-payroll operating expenses. Why does it seem all that shocking that this team might end up a bit tight this year?

[Throne Logic]

Another thing: Assuming that Ralph is positioning to sell. Who's going to buy?

Assuming that the facts are straight about the direction of the new Rev Sharing program, no smart business person is going to WANT to purchase this team. They would be shut out from a large part of the actual Rev Sharing. They would be subject to fines and penaties if they don't hit that 80% mark.

These are actual problems, folks. Ralph may very well be taking things to the extreme. In fact, I agree that he probably is. But that's life, people. You often need to bring the issue into the realm of the rediculous just to get your point across. That's what Ralph's doing. 'Cuz if he doesn't, there is NO WAY this team makes it beyond his death. His family can't afford the taxes and nobody is going to buy it under the constraints they would have to face.

[socalfan]

.......... Mid single digits on profits? How the hell does Forbes have them in the 30 mill range ......

Littman said profit. Forbes says operating profit. They don't mean the same thing. Door and window don't mean the same thing either.

[Throne Logic]

Littman said profit. Forbes says operating profit. They don't mean the same thing. Door and window don't mean the same thing either.

Yes! Thank you. Much better put than my ranting.

[LtBillsFan66]

Ralph is getting on my nerves.

[ICE74129]

Ralph is flat out full of crap and lost to boot. It's past time to sell.

[dolphan117]

Another thing: Assuming that Ralph is positioning to sell. Who's going to buy?

Assuming that the facts are straight about the direction of the new Rev Sharing program, no smart business person is going to WANT to purchase this team. They would be shut out from a large part of the actual Rev Sharing. They would be subject to fines and penaties if they don't hit that 80% mark.

These are actual problems, folks. Ralph may very well be taking things to the extreme. In fact, I agree that he probably is. But that's life, people. You often need to bring the issue into the realm of the rediculous just to get your point across. That's what Ralph's doing. 'Cuz if he doesn't, there is NO WAY this team makes it beyond his death. His family can't afford the taxes and nobody is going to buy it under the constraints they would have to face.
Well if you are assuming that the team once sold is going to stay where it is than you may have a point. If you figure that the NFL badly wants to put a team in LA and that the Bills are currently not making a tone of money than it would make a tone of sense for Ralph to make a big deal about not being able to make money while seting himself up in a very attractive position to sell the team for a huge load of cash with the understanding that the Bills would move.

That's why Wilson stuck his neck out in two news conferences Friday and Sunday, painting a dark picture about the long-term viability of the franchise. On Sunday, he acknowledged he no longer could guarantee that he wouldn't sell or move the team. Thats the part that I found the most intresting. Didnt he just say very recently that he had no intention of selling or moving the team during that mid weak PC that he held? Now just a little later he aparently says that either of those things could happen. To me it sounds a whole lot like a guy who is mad about the new CBA wanted to say exaclty how he felt about it while at the same time setting up his exit. "Hey I didnt want to sell the team or move it but what could I do? That *@%*% CBA...... There was nothing else I could do.........."

[Mr. Pink]

Littman said profit. Forbes says operating profit. They don't mean the same thing. Door and window don't mean the same thing either.


operating income actually socal, same church wrong pew, i know.

But Forbes' operating income is before taxes, depreciation and ammoritization. They can't access after taxes and depreciation because of the simple fact each one of these NFL owners have other business holdings and incomes. It would be next to impossible to ascertain exactly where each expense these people have is attributable to. After just taxation, that 37 million in operating income really means....about 22 million. Obviously with depreciation, ammortization, etc it changes that figure up and can change it immensely. If you're a smart business person you turn that number into as small as you can in order to not have to pay out 15 million a year in taxes.

[don137]

I would be shocked if RW sold this team. As mentioned previously by another astute poster if RW sells the team it will result in huge taxes. Then when he dies the estate will be taxed again from the amount he cleared from the original amount. Why would in the world would he forfeit an extra couple hundred million to his estate in being taxed twice?