Anybody think this is the reason why Ralph's kids don't want the team?

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  • Bill Brasky
    Drives an ice cream truck covered in human skulls
    • Jan 2004
    • 66218

    Anybody think this is the reason why Ralph's kids don't want the team?

    It's Friday, April 14, and you know what that means. It means we've got one day left (OK, the weekend; they're giving us 'til Monday at midnight this year) to find that elusive loophole in the Internal Revenue Service tax code before we have to get a postmark on our annual returns. It happens every spring.

    But for some of the wealthiest Americans, it's happening every spring, summer, autumn and winter. And their search for ways around the tax burden often requires creative strategy and long-term planning that make our annual rasslin' matches with Form 1040 amount to something less than a hill of bean-counting.

    It's pretty hard to mail in an envelope when you're dead.

    As the value of professional sports teams has escalated, the smart owner who might be a little long of tooth and has a desire to keep the franchise in the family is worrying about estate taxes. Currently, those taxes are levied on estates valued at more than $4 million, which pretty much means they're a factor for every franchise owner in pro sports.

    In 1960, Lamar Hunt bought the Kansas City Chiefs for $25,000. Thirty seven years later, Hunt transferred 80 percent of the team to his daughter and three sons. While he had to pay a gift tax equal to the estate tax -- then 55 percent -- he paid that tax based on the value of the team back then. According to Financial World Magazine, the team's value in 1997 was $188 million.

    "It's something I thought about doing for a number of years," Hunt told the New Orleans Times-Picayune in 2000. "If I was real farsighted, I would have done it when the franchise was worth $10 million. But for some people, it's hard to think in terms of dying. They don't want to admit it could happen to them at any time. In that sense, I was a foot-dragger."

    Even still, executing the plan when he did saved his heirs hundreds of millions of dollars. Today, Forbes Magazine values the team at $762 million.

    If an owner who has 100 percent of the team in his name passes away this year, and if his children wish to inherit and own that team, they will be required to pay federal estate tax equal to a whopping 46 percent of the value of the franchise. In the case of an NFL team, that could amount to fortune in and of itself.


    You think you've got it tough on tax day? Try being an NFL owner who wants to pass his team on to his children, writes Darren Rovell.
  • Iehoshua
    Registered User
    • Jan 2003
    • 12906

    #2
    Re: Anybody think this is the reason why Ralph's kids don't want the team?

    That tax is rape and the government should have repealed it by now. Either that or simply raise the hammer and sickle flags and declare communism as the new economic standard.

    What a travesty.

    Comment

    • ICE74129
      Legendary Zoner
      • Feb 2005
      • 10796

      #3
      Re: Anybody think this is the reason why Ralph's kids don't want the team?

      Which one of Ralphs kids is a billionare? How about has a net worth of say 200 million? None of them, they all work for the bills!

      What is his estate worth? Not nearly the 600 mill that a new owner could pay for the team and not enough to leave to the kids to pay the estate taxes on his team.

      New owner, that is the only way to go

      Comment

      • don137
        Registered User
        • Jul 2002
        • 7720

        #4
        Re: Anybody think this is the reason why Ralph's kids don't want the team?

        Originally posted by ICE74129
        Which one of Ralphs kids is a billionare? How about has a net worth of say 200 million? None of them, they all work for the bills!

        What is his estate worth? Not nearly the 600 mill that a new owner could pay for the team and not enough to leave to the kids to pay the estate taxes on his team.

        New owner, that is the only way to go
        Why would Ralph sell? He would have to pay on a capital gains tax from the sale and then when he dies what he cleared from the sale would be taxed again? Who would do that?

        Comment

        • Mitchy moo
          Roways rooking ahread!
          • Sep 2005
          • 18380

          #5
          Re: Anybody think this is the reason why Ralph's kids don't want the team?

          Originally posted by jfreeman
          It's Friday, April 14, and you know what that means. It means we've got one day left (OK, the weekend; they're giving us 'til Monday at midnight this year) to find that elusive loophole in the Internal Revenue Service tax code before we have to get a postmark on our annual returns. It happens every spring.

          But for some of the wealthiest Americans, it's happening every spring, summer, autumn and winter. And their search for ways around the tax burden often requires creative strategy and long-term planning that make our annual rasslin' matches with Form 1040 amount to something less than a hill of bean-counting.

          It's pretty hard to mail in an envelope when you're dead.

          As the value of professional sports teams has escalated, the smart owner who might be a little long of tooth and has a desire to keep the franchise in the family is worrying about estate taxes. Currently, those taxes are levied on estates valued at more than $4 million, which pretty much means they're a factor for every franchise owner in pro sports.

          In 1960, Lamar Hunt bought the Kansas City Chiefs for $25,000. Thirty seven years later, Hunt transferred 80 percent of the team to his daughter and three sons. While he had to pay a gift tax equal to the estate tax -- then 55 percent -- he paid that tax based on the value of the team back then. According to Financial World Magazine, the team's value in 1997 was $188 million.

          "It's something I thought about doing for a number of years," Hunt told the New Orleans Times-Picayune in 2000. "If I was real farsighted, I would have done it when the franchise was worth $10 million. But for some people, it's hard to think in terms of dying. They don't want to admit it could happen to them at any time. In that sense, I was a foot-dragger."

          Even still, executing the plan when he did saved his heirs hundreds of millions of dollars. Today, Forbes Magazine values the team at $762 million.

          If an owner who has 100 percent of the team in his name passes away this year, and if his children wish to inherit and own that team, they will be required to pay federal estate tax equal to a whopping 46 percent of the value of the franchise. In the case of an NFL team, that could amount to fortune in and of itself.

          http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2407875
          Sell it, pay on your long term gain and enjoy.

          Comment

          • Mitchy moo
            Roways rooking ahread!
            • Sep 2005
            • 18380

            #6
            Re: Anybody think this is the reason why Ralph's kids don't want the team?

            Originally posted by don137
            Why would Ralph sell? He would have to pay on a capital gains tax from the sale and then when he dies what he cleared from the sale would be taxed again? Who would do that?
            There is insurance games they play that can knock alot of the tranfer burden out, don't cry for him & his $750 Million. Your not going to see any of it.

            Comment

            • ICE74129
              Legendary Zoner
              • Feb 2005
              • 10796

              #7
              Re: Anybody think this is the reason why Ralph's kids don't want the team?

              Originally posted by don137
              Why would Ralph sell? He would have to pay on a capital gains tax from the sale and then when he dies what he cleared from the sale would be taxed again? Who would do that?
              Lets see...

              He sells for say 600 million. he is taxed say 50%. That is 300 million. Then taxed again according to you which is 150 million

              So ralph dies with 150 mill (Plus insurance policy's, Investments, his other business etc) to leave to his family. Yeah I feel so very sorry for him.

              Comment

              • ICE74129
                Legendary Zoner
                • Feb 2005
                • 10796

                #8
                Re: Anybody think this is the reason why Ralph's kids don't want the team?

                Originally posted by jfreeman
                It's Friday, April 14, and you know what that means. It means we've got one day left (OK, the weekend; they're giving us 'til Monday at midnight this year) to find that elusive loophole in the Internal Revenue Service tax code before we have to get a postmark on our annual returns. It happens every spring.

                But for some of the wealthiest Americans, it's happening every spring, summer, autumn and winter. And their search for ways around the tax burden often requires creative strategy and long-term planning that make our annual rasslin' matches with Form 1040 amount to something less than a hill of bean-counting.

                It's pretty hard to mail in an envelope when you're dead.

                As the value of professional sports teams has escalated, the smart owner who might be a little long of tooth and has a desire to keep the franchise in the family is worrying about estate taxes. Currently, those taxes are levied on estates valued at more than $4 million, which pretty much means they're a factor for every franchise owner in pro sports.

                In 1960, Lamar Hunt bought the Kansas City Chiefs for $25,000. Thirty seven years later, Hunt transferred 80 percent of the team to his daughter and three sons. While he had to pay a gift tax equal to the estate tax -- then 55 percent -- he paid that tax based on the value of the team back then. According to Financial World Magazine, the team's value in 1997 was $188 million.

                "It's something I thought about doing for a number of years," Hunt told the New Orleans Times-Picayune in 2000. "If I was real farsighted, I would have done it when the franchise was worth $10 million. But for some people, it's hard to think in terms of dying. They don't want to admit it could happen to them at any time. In that sense, I was a foot-dragger."

                Even still, executing the plan when he did saved his heirs hundreds of millions of dollars. Today, Forbes Magazine values the team at $762 million.

                If an owner who has 100 percent of the team in his name passes away this year, and if his children wish to inherit and own that team, they will be required to pay federal estate tax equal to a whopping 46 percent of the value of the franchise. In the case of an NFL team, that could amount to fortune in and of itself.

                http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2407875
                So here is where we are. If he sells he gets hit for 46%. If he gives part ownership to his kids he gets hit for 46%. If he dies they get hit for 46%.

                So sell. Before he is taxed his attorney's, Accountants etc will invest some money etc. Either way the man is going to be sitting with about 150 mill in his pocket when this is all done.

                Comment

                • ICE74129
                  Legendary Zoner
                  • Feb 2005
                  • 10796

                  #9
                  Re: Anybody think this is the reason why Ralph's kids don't want the team?

                  "In fact, no estate taxes will be paid right away for either half of the team, as long as Wellington's share is transferred to his wife, Ann, and Tisch's wife, Joan, takes over her late husband's portion. Lateral moves to a spouse do not trigger the estate tax. "

                  Ladies and gentlemen...meet the new owner of the Buffalo Bills...Mrs. Ralph C Wilson. LOL!

                  Comment

                  • RedEyE
                    Registered User
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 24661

                    #10
                    Re: Anybody think this is the reason why Ralph's kids don't want the team?

                    Originally posted by ICE74129
                    "In fact, no estate taxes will be paid right away for either half of the team, as long as Wellington's share is transferred to his wife, Ann, and Tisch's wife, Joan, takes over her late husband's portion. Lateral moves to a spouse do not trigger the estate tax. "

                    Ladies and gentlemen...meet the new owner of the Buffalo Bills...Mrs. Ralph C Wilson. LOL!
                    That's cool as long as Ralph goes before Mary. And she'll still have to decide what needs to be done being that she is probably not too far behind him.

                    Comment

                    • venis2k1
                      Youboty can hope
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 4621

                      #11
                      Re: Anybody think this is the reason why Ralph's kids don't want the team?

                      Originally posted by ICE74129
                      Which one of Ralphs kids is a billionare? How about has a net worth of say 200 million? None of them, they all work for the bills!
                      man, you aint kidding...

                      Christy Wilson Hoffman
                      Consultant

                      Linda Bogdan
                      Corporate Vice President/ scout

                      Comment

                      • ICE74129
                        Legendary Zoner
                        • Feb 2005
                        • 10796

                        #12
                        Re: Anybody think this is the reason why Ralph's kids don't want the team?

                        Originally posted by venis2k1
                        man, you aint kidding...

                        Christy Wilson Hoffman
                        Consultant

                        Linda Bogdan
                        Corporate Vice President/ scout

                        Comment

                        • Mr. Pink
                          Peterman Sucks!
                          • Mar 2006
                          • 35303

                          #13
                          Re: Anybody think this is the reason why Ralph's kids don't want the team?

                          Estate tax is to repealed in 2010......this year it's at 47% actually.
                          Now the gov't changes everything so the estate tax may or may not be repealed then, who knows?

                          Capital gain tax is 35%, its the bracket he'd be in.

                          And we have til tuesday here in the Buffalo NY area at midnight to file our taxes :)

                          Comment

                          • Mski
                            Registered User
                            • Mar 2006
                            • 6753

                            #14
                            Re: Anybody think this is the reason why Ralph's kids don't want the team?

                            Originally posted by don137
                            Why would Ralph sell? He would have to pay on a capital gains tax from the sale and then when he dies what he cleared from the sale would be taxed again? Who would do that?
                            the capital gains tax is 25% on that large of a gain, the estate taxes can exceed 50%
                            RIP Tommy D!
                            12/25/1978-9/9/2008


                            If you make something "Idiot-proof", they'll only make better idiots!

                            Comment

                            • Mski
                              Registered User
                              • Mar 2006
                              • 6753

                              #15
                              Re: Anybody think this is the reason why Ralph's kids don't want the team?

                              Originally posted by FunTimesYaY!
                              Estate tax is to repealed in 2010......this year it's at 47% actually.
                              Now the gov't changes everything so the estate tax may or may not be repealed then, who knows?

                              Capital gain tax is 35%, its the bracket he'd be in.

                              And we have til tuesday here in the Buffalo NY area at midnight to file our taxes :)
                              long term capital gains are taxed at a lower rate then the marginal rate thomas you should know that
                              RIP Tommy D!
                              12/25/1978-9/9/2008


                              If you make something "Idiot-proof", they'll only make better idiots!

                              Comment

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