Brown defends Wilson

[The_Philster]

Bengals owner Mike Brown went out of his way Friday to defend Buffalo Bills owner Ralph Wilson, who contends that the NFL's new collective bargaining agreement hurts small-market clubs. Brown set up a meeting with reporters and said he was upset with the personal attacks on Wilson, who is a close friend. Critics have called Wilson out of touch for voting against the agreement because he didn't fully understand it. more (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060415/2069442.asp)

[G. Host]

Fallacious, ad hominem attacks?

Nahh that would never happen from Buffalo fans let alone outside owners. Right now as usual rabid Buffalo fans and media are Bills' worst enemy.

[ICE74129]

Fallacious, ad hominem attacks?

Nahh that would never happen from Buffalo fans let alone outside owners. Right now as usual rabid Buffalo fans and media are Bills' worst enemy.


" Brown agrees with Wilson that the bottom fourth of NFL teams could struggle financially under the agreement. Brown worries that the big-market teams will be able to avoid sharing revenue by rigging the criteria for smaller teams to get the money."

Not WILL Struggle.

And so far Ralph has shown no proof to his claims. Upshaw was flabergasted at Ralphs comments according to one report.

When Ralph can back his claims with FACTS then we will see. Until now no one else has even mentioned it until Brown had his PC. And at no time did he absolutely back Ralphs claims. Brown just doesn't like the pecieved personal attacks on his buddy.

When I see the Bengals, Jags, Browns and a couple other teams do the same as ralph, then side together to try and get a change made, then we will see.

[G. Host]

Could struggle depending on how wording is on sharing which Ralph objected to when Bills could not get answer. Brown saw agreement and voted against it.

[ICE74129]

He didn't see the agrement. He saw 45 min of it according to Ralph. Brown took the cautious route and sided with his buddy Ralph Wilson. Funny how 30 other owners who 'saw it' didn't side with him.

Now which is it G? Either they saw it and 30 teams agree with it meaning Ralph is full of crap, OR not many know and need to cut the crap and side with Ralph (Including Mid 1/3rd teams) and get this thing set up properly? It's one or the other

[dolphan117]

I wish Ralph all the best but when you say that you voted against the new CBA in part because you "didnt understand it" and "it was complicated" people are going to question whether you are still up to being an NFL owner. Im not trying to take shots at the guy but it is what it is.

[The_Philster]

I wish Ralph all the best but when you say that you voted against the new CBA in part because you "didnt understand it" and "it was complicated" people are going to question whether you are still up to being an NFL owner. Im not trying to take shots at the guy but it is what it is.
It was a pretty lengthy agreement to go over and they were given 45 minutes to go over it. A lot of owners didn't understand it but they were more afraid of labor issues lasting a few more days than they were of what was in the contracts they were signing. Out of 32 owners, it's pretty sad that only 2 of them weren't treating it in panic mode.

[ICE74129]

Then again is it totally out of the Question that maybe they understood it better than Wilson and it isn't nearly as bad as ol ralph says it is?

If ANY other owner out there was *****ing like ralph is, but ralph signed off on the deal, every one of you would be calling for the guy to STFU while saying he was a moron that didn't understand the deal.

But as usual homerism rules.

[dolphan117]

It was a pretty lengthy agreement to go over and they were given 45 minutes to go over it. A lot of owners didn't understand it but they were more afraid of labor issues lasting a few more days than they were of what was in the contracts they were signing. Out of 32 owners, it's pretty sad that only 2 of them weren't treating it in panic mode.
Sorry but I just don't buy that. The owners were working on this issue for what, nearly a week? If I remember correctly the players gave the owners an offer on Sunday evening and the owners had until Wednesday to go over it and finally vote on it. They may have only had 45 min to go over the final draft but this was all stuff that had been talked about for days. Also as much money as the player may have gotten you have to remember the alternative. If the other owners had voted NO than you would have had a cap for this year of 85 million which would have caused a bloody wave of cuts followed by an uncapped year in which high revenue teams like the skins could have literal spent twice as much per year as Buffalo. How would you have liked to see the team try and be competitive then? Remember too that the union as well as the commissioner both went on record as saying that if there was one uncapped year than the union would never again agree to a solid cap like the one we have now. Some might say that was posturing by the player to force the owner to give them a good deal but I actually think it was true. (as do a number of writers) Once the players got that kind of money being thrown at them I seriously doubt they would want to go and cut their paychecks.
I sympathies with Ralph somewhat in that the NFL that we have now just isn't the same beast that it was 10 years ago. You cant just sell tickets and jerseys and expect to make money anymore. You have to do a lot of marketing and use the team as a centerpiece that you can build a cash cow around. Its a lot more work to run a franchise now than it was 10 years ago because there is much more business and marketing involved then ever before. Its just the price you pay when you have a league that is as successfully as the NFL, it becomes more and more about business and money and not quite so much about history and tradition. You need to sell naming right to stadiums etc and find new ways to make money with the team. The owners have the choice to adapt with the changes and continue to make money or they can try and follow the same models that they have used in the past which if you believe Ralph are set to make the Bills an unlivable franchise.
I honestly hope that the team can stay in Buffalo both for all the fans as well as the history and tradition that the franchise has, it wouldn't be nearly the same to have a Dolphins Bills game in December if the game was being played in LA. :( However I question if at this point in his life Ralph really has the energy to re-build this franchise. We are talking about a major bit of work that would almost undoubtedly have to include not only a new stadium but also surrounding attractions (Hotel,restaurants etc.) that the team could use to generate extra revenue. At his age I really doubt he still has the energy to oversee all of that as well as manage the political side of things necessary to get both approval and funding for such a venture. I have no ill will toward Ralph but at this point if I were a Bill fan I would be hoping that he would sell the team to a younger guy with the understanding that the team stays in Buffalo.

[The_Philster]

I have no ill will toward Ralph but at this point if I were a Bill fan I would be hoping that he would sell the team to a younger guy with the understanding that the team stays in Buffalo.<!-- / message -->That's the trick...they need to ensure that a new owner would continue to get any form of revenue sharing. Regardless, the team does need to find ways to create extra revenue. Bills-themed restaurant, hotel, stuff like that would bring in extra revenue without pricing people in WNY out of their ability to keep supporting the team through season tickets

[dolphan117]

That's the trick...they need to ensure that a new owner would continue to get any form of revenue sharing. Regardless, the team does need to find ways to create extra revenue. Bills-themed restaurant, hotel, stuff like that would bring in extra revenue without pricing people in WNY out of their ability to keep supporting the team through season tickets
One thing I would throw out there is that this isn't a problem unique to the NFL. Nascar has had the same thing to some degree. Some of the older tracks that have a lot of history have dropped from having 2 races a year down to one or completely lost all their races in favor of newer tracks that sell more tickets and make more money since they are in bigger markets. Its sad but what can you do when one track can generate twice the revenue of another? To me the only way you can avoid it is just by being aggressive and marketing you team as many ways as you can. Small market franchises are going to have to fight the fight for good CBA numbers while at the same time embracing the NFL of today. Owners like Jones and Snyder (who I dislike a great deal) look at a situation like the Bills and say "why would I bend over back-wards to help a team that isn't willing to do something as simple as sell naming rights the the stadium?" Its one thing if you are making money and decide to keep the tradition of having the name of an old stadium but I think other owners find it hard to help a team that they don't feel is doing everything in its power to help themselves. I don't remember who it was but one writer said that during the CBA talks the owner of the Browns was saying something about the financial situation of his team and Jones said something like "I can buy the naming rights to your stadium right now for 5 million and double that in about 10 minutes" It should also be pointed out that people like Craft in NE spent a great deal of money to build their new stadium and surrounding attractions (all of which I think was privately funded.) Most of these high market teams didn't just have the cash fall into their lap, they have worked very hard for it. Also the newer owners of teams like the Texans, Pats, and Skins had to invest far more to buy their teams in the first place than Ralph did, hundreds of millions more in fact. My guess is that they look at a team like the Bills and say "Hey I just spent over 500 million dollars to buy my team and put it where it is, you bought the bills for next to nothing years and years ago and have done nothing but print money ever since. Don't cry too hard" I guess I can understand both perspectives a little. I just hope they can find some kind of an arrangement that allows small market clubs to stay where they are as long as they have imaginative ownership that maximizes revenue

[Meathead]

great post

we need to decide the boundaries where football crosses from a business to art to cultural icon

on one hand football is big business and in our capitalistic culture money can be king

on another hand football is art. the product on the field is pure entertainment and as such is absolutely a form of artistry. artistry enhances lives by defining new boundaries of understanding and experience and thus has at least some immunity from the pure pursuit of profit

football also is inextrictably woven into american culture and thus has significant preservation value. to lose founding teams would be more painful than perhaps we realized before the modell express left town

we have to figure out the balance between these competing forces

[Turf]

It's clear that Ralph's gripe is not against the players half of the deal, but figuring out the final wording to keep from getting boned from the other owners.
This is all a war within the ownership group. He thinks that Jones etc stuck this vague stuff in the end and are trying to railroad it through which is bad for the NFL and small market teams.
Quite frankly the guys got a point. The big market owners don't want to share their revenues and are trying to pull a fast one.

[G. Host]

Then again is it totally out of the Question that maybe they understood it better than Wilson and it isn't nearly as bad as ol ralph says it is?

If ANY other owner out there was *****ing like ralph is, but ralph signed off on the deal, every one of you would be calling for the guy to STFU while saying he was a moron that didn't understand the deal.

But as usual homerism rules.

I would NEVER be calling owner to STFU and a moron even though he did not agree. Of course I was probable raised with more common sense and courtsey than you.

I think you are in no position to call out what every one of us would do. You are better at determining what Jerry Jones, Sullivan or Lewis would do. Please decline from telling us what we would do I will decline from saying that you are speaking out of your ass.