How much money for a new stadium?

[Stewie]

Apparently the Cardinals new stadium is a completely state of the art facility they built for 400 million. It has a translucent new roof (lets in some light, but not as much heat), a retractable field (like the crumb tray on your toaster oven, they're gonna slide the grass out of the stadium for 350 days a year). Their stadium is financed with $150 million from the team and $250 from hotel/car taxes.

Now, we spent $100 million in state money to renovate the ralph in '98. The Jets are about to spend well over a billion to get a stadium in the city, right? I didn't read up on who's paying what, but I'd venture to guess NYS will kick in at least $200 million. So is getting a new stadium built for the Bills that farfetched?

The worst professional franchise in sports history built a great stadium for $400 million, so is someone gonna try and tell me that a nice new stadium can't be built better in downtown Buffalo?

I say Buffalo should build a nice art-deco or goth-revival stadium, office, and retail complex downtown that matches the city's mix of architecture styles. It would be one of a kind, an attraction in itself like Camden Yards is/was. Gotta have the field be open-roof and bowl style, IMO, but it could be surrounded with office and retail space. Perhaps have a boardwalk with trolley's around the extended perimeter, with a pedestrian archway over the field. (Screw you, St. Louis!) Give Buffalo a new skyline. Build rail access into the facility, as part of the new high speed rail loop NYS should build between Albany Syracuse Rochester and Buffalo (a whole 'nother story...) Make it a Bus hub. Make it easy to get in and out, and walk to the offices/retail locations.

Lets say a 400 million stadium becomes an 800 million stadium because it's built in downtown Buffalo and not Arizona suburbia (although Phoenix real estate ain't cheap). I think it can be done. Question to you still in New York: do you want your tax money to pay that kind of money for the Bills?

[Ebenezer]

why build a new stadium?? RWS sells out for every game now. How many corporate honchoes do you think there are in Buffalo?

[OpIv37]

I don't pay taxes in NY so I don't care....

But seriously, I think tax money would be justified if it can be shown that the stadium will bring in new jobs/provide a boost to the economy. The problem is that most studies show that stadiums do not provide that big a boost.

Now, if a revived downtown was done alongside the stadium, it might be a different story. The stadium would have to be a part of a larger plan for it to be justfied.

And I agree- it has to be open roof. No being pussies like Minnesota and Detroit.

[Devin]

The new AZ stadium is sick!

[Stewie]

I think the only way to get the state to spend any money on the stadium is to link it to other economic necessities in Buffalo: namely creating wealth (read jobs and higher wages) and reversing the population decline.

The stadium alone isn't going to create too many jobs worth mentioning, but we could get creative with attracting business. Make the surrounding space an empire zone, so businesses who develop property get some tax breaks. Build a world class mag-lev high speed rail between Rochester and Buffalo, so you can board a train in Rochester and be in downtown Buffalo 15 minutes later (300mph). Have local stops at the universities in both cities, to encourage r&d collaboration.

Buffalo has to do SOMETHING to bring the city back, right?

[MikeInRoch]

$400 Mil is cheap. Cincy's new Stadium was well over $500 Mil.

[R. Rich]

The new AZ stadium is sick!

Ah, you've been there, huh?

[Pride]

Retractable roof... if only for the hope of hosting a SuperBowl... we can leave it open every game but the SB!

[ICE74129]

I say 600 million. Now how do you get that money immediately back into the WNY economy? Hire LOCAL Unions to do the work. Maybe you can't hire out all of it (its smart to use some firms that have built these things before) but for AC, Concrete, electrical, Network, etc use local contractors.

You get the money to local guys who in turn need to hire more people. then you of course tax the money they are paid so there is some immediate turn around.

Not to mention the community spirit increases when Joe worker shows his kid that he is building the Bills new stadium.

[Bill Brasky]

The Jets and Giants are building in NJ and splitting the costs from what I understand... so I don't see how NY would be contributing to a piece of property built on NJ land... maybe they contribute something, but I don't think it'd be much.

[Dont drink the water]

Retractable roof... if only for the hope of hosting a SuperBowl... we can leave it open every game but the SB!
It can be used in other events as well besides football. Where does Buffalo's Lacross team play?

[Dont drink the water]

The Jets and Giants are building in NJ and splitting the costs from what I understand... so I don't see how NY would be contributing to a piece of property built on NJ land... maybe they contribute something, but I don't think it'd be much.

Maybe contribute to for bridges going out of New York but only contribute one direction :D

[dolphan117]

why build a new stadium?? RWS sells out for every game now. How many corporate honchoes do you think there are in Buffalo?Because according to Ralph the team is loosing money and a new stadium used as a centerpiece of a series of attractions like hotels and restaurants is probably the only thing that will keep the Bills where they are. The good thing here is that Ralph or (preferable for me) a new owner may be in a position to leverage the state by saying "look we are loosing money and if you wont help us build a new stadium to turn things around then we will just go to LA where we will be able to practical print our own money." It would seem that with some smart political maneuvering there should be some significant money made available by the state.

[HAMMER]

Retractable roof... if only for the hope of hosting a SuperBowl... we can leave it open every game but the SB!

I like the idea of retractable multi-purpose, I also like the idea of closing the roof when it is raining, or sleeting, but it should be open for all other games.

[Mr. Pink]

While we're discussing pipe dreams.....The Minnesota Twins have pretty much given Minnesota an ultimatum of build us a new park or we're out....Why don't we just build a 65K to 70K seat stadium, retractable roof, and have it for baseball and football and lure the twinkies here.

I've asked this before and I'll ask again....MOST of you, not all, already complain about ticket prices being too high or you won't be able to afford going to the Ralph if they raised ticket prices to more competitive levels. What do you think is gonna happen if they build a new stadium? They're gonna raise ticket prices and probably include a PSL when you first go to get tickets. PSLs cost more than the seat you're buying. Not too mention who do you think is going to mostly fund one of these new stadiums? You, me and every other taxed person in Erie County.

[Mski]

I like the idea of retractable multi-purpose, I also like the idea of closing the roof when it is raining, or sleeting, but it should be open for all other games.

if you put a retractable roof on the stadium, the nfl wants it close for all bad weather, ie: snow rain sleet high winds cold, ect. putting a retractable roof stadium in buffalo complete removes any kinda of ""homefield advantage"" we might have for playing in a cold weather city, i do like the idea of building it near HSBC arena, and on the waterfront, it wouldnt take much to get the train to no where to get there, and the possibilities are endless

[Mski]

While we're discussing pipe dreams.....The Minnesota Twins have pretty much given Minnesota an ultimatum of build us a new park or we're out....Why don't we just build a 65K to 70K seat stadium, retractable roof, and have it for baseball and football and lure the twinkies here.

I've asked this before and I'll ask again....MOST of you, not all, already complain about ticket prices being too high or you won't be able to afford going to the Ralph if they raised ticket prices to more competitive levels. What do you think is gonna happen if they build a new stadium? They're gonna raise ticket prices and probably include a PSL when you first go to get tickets. PSLs cost more than the seat you're buying. Not too mention who do you think is going to mostly fund one of these new stadiums? You, me and every other taxed person in Erie County.


stop stealing my points from conversations at work.. i told you about the twinkies

[Mr. Pink]

stop stealing my points from conversations at work.. i told you about the twinkies


Your idea sucked and was unrealistic, hence, "pipe dream"

:rofl:

[The_Philster]

It can be used in other events as well besides football. Where does Buffalo's Lacross team play?
HSBC Arena...they'll be playing there the next 3 weekends too..on their way to winning the NLL Title :up:

[Ebenezer]

Because according to Ralph the team is loosing money and a new stadium used as a centerpiece of a series of attractions like hotels and restaurants is probably the only thing that will keep the Bills where they are. The good thing here is that Ralph or (preferable for me) a new owner may be in a position to leverage the state by saying "look we are loosing money and if you wont help us build a new stadium to turn things around then we will just go to LA where we will be able to practical print our own money." It would seem that with some smart political maneuvering there should be some significant money made available by the state.
All that development in Buffalo? You don't understand the region. People don't go into the city all that often. I would almost predict that there would not be a new stadium in my lifetime.

How does all that other stuff help Ralph? Does he get a kickback on every meal sold in those restaurants? They will be able to print money in LA because they can charge $200 per seat per game with $2500 seat licenses and charge large amounts of money for as many boxes as they can jam into a stadium...ain't happening in Buffalo.

[G. Host]

The difference is that stadium can be designed to make more money from those willing to pay more but raising prices on premium seats while still filling stadium with rank and file. There is not enough difference in price structure at Ralph Wilson Stadium.

There ARE people who would be willing to pay for more expensive seats but are not interested in suites. Seniority would be lost by some for best seats but to keep Bills it needs to be done WITHOUT trying to keeping up with the (Jerry) Jones and price it outrageously.

[Nighthawk]

why build a new stadium?? RWS sells out for every game now. How many corporate honchoes do you think there are in Buffalo?

Here is the reason that I believe a new stadium will be built. A new owner will not want the Ralph, it is old and outdated and it really isn't that great of a stadium. Trust me, there is plenty of money in this city to support higher costs that a new stadium would bring. Also, this city will never see a football only style stadium again. The stadium would have to multi-purpose and would have to include a convention center of some sort, so that the city can use it more than just 8 times again. Will this take the "home-field" advantage away (i.e. snow, wind & cold)? Maybe, but at least Buffalo will have a home-field and isn't that ultimately what we all want?

[Ebenezer]

Here is the reason that I believe a new stadium will be built. A new owner will not want the Ralph, it is old and outdated and it really isn't that great of a stadium. Trust me, there is plenty of money in this city to support higher costs that a new stadium would bring.


then why not just raise the prices at the Ralph and make more money now?? why spend money on a stadium that is not needed to make money? that is illogical.

[BillyT92679]

The luster of the Ralph has worn off. It's representative of a time long past... putting a stadium out in the hinterlands of suburbia.
Gillette Stadium is an exception, but the Patriots are the essence of a regional team.

A stadium in the city of Buffalo would help to reverse the trend of outmigration from the city to the suburbs, or at least would provide an anchor for a tourist area to draw day trippers into the city.

[The_Philster]

The luster of the Ralph has worn off. It's representative of a time long past... putting a stadium out in the hinterlands of suburbia.
Gillette Stadium is an exception, but the Patriots are the essence of a regional team.and the Bills aren't? :huh:

[Nighthawk]

then why not just raise the prices at the Ralph and make more money now?? why spend money on a stadium that is not needed to make money? that is illogical.

How many new owners have come into the league in the past decade who didn't upgrade the stadium? It is part of having an NFL team and it will be a part of whether the Bills stay in this city or not. If it isn't addressed immediately when the new owner comes in, then I guarantee it will be brought up for discussion in the not to distant future. I personally don't want to have to go through this crap again, so I see it getting taken care of when the team changes hands.

[Turf]

What is it with the mentality so prevalent among Bills fans that we need the cold weather and elements to win ball games? Why can't the team win on even footing? It may even help us win. It's just as inborn as "get the bum out of town". When's the last time anyone saw a bum?
I prefer an outdoor setting, but if you want to sell high priced seats you've got to give people some level of comfort. Getting stoned or drunk in the parking lot isn't the answer.
A retractable roof is the only thing that makes sense. It sells tickets at the end of the year. It allows for other activites. It brings in money.
We're not such a poor team or franchise that we need to freeze out the opponent to win.

[paladin warrior]

maybe around $700 million or more if they rebuild more like new biggest market, new sport store. FOX sport bar, New park, etc.. something new.

[G. Host]

Remember they need enough land for stadium and parking especially parking since they will make money on parking. Putting it downtown helps Buffalo economy but raises cost and Buffalo itself will probably contribute very little.

[mikemac2001]

And it should have lots of strippers!

[Typ0]

All that development in Buffalo? You don't understand the region. People don't go into the city all that often. I would almost predict that there would not be a new stadium in my lifetime.

How does all that other stuff help Ralph? Does he get a kickback on every meal sold in those restaurants? They will be able to print money in LA because they can charge $200 per seat per game with $2500 seat licenses and charge large amounts of money for as many boxes as they can jam into a stadium...ain't happening in Buffalo.

people don't go into buffalo because there is no reason to. That is what the city needs to change. Besides, Orchard Park does not want the stadium there and they have zoned out all events other than football which is rediculous.

[Typ0]

why build a new stadium?? RWS sells out for every game now. How many corporate honchoes do you think there are in Buffalo?

the sell outs are reason for more seating!

[Ebenezer]

How many new owners have come into the league in the past decade who didn't upgrade the stadium? It is part of having an NFL team and it will be a part of whether the Bills stay in this city or not. If it isn't addressed immediately when the new owner comes in, then I guarantee it will be brought up for discussion in the not to distant future. I personally don't want to have to go through this crap again, so I see it getting taken care of when the team changes hands.


agan, enlighten me...exactly where do the new revenues come from with a new stadium? money will just not fall like manna from the sky.

[Ebenezer]

the sell outs are reason for more seating!


and how many seats do you think it is going to take to make enough money to make RW happy?? 90,000? 100,000? that's a lot of fannies in buffalo.

[jamze132]

In all reallity, we probably won't see a new stadium built for a while. Doesn't the lease expire in Orchard Park in like 5-7 years? We will play there at least that long. And I think if there isn't another stadium built to play in then, Buffalo may hightale it out of the regiion. There will probably be new ownership by then and they are going to want a new stadium. If a new stadium is to built for Buffalo, the ownership of the team is going to have to be filithy rich and love the fact that Buffalo has an NFL franchise and doesn't want to see it leave. I do agree that it needs to be built in the city though. And the state should really kick in a substantial amount of the costs. If I were a governor of a state, I wouldn't want a certain part of my state to go to sh1t. If keeping the Bills in Buffalo keeps the region afloat, then they better start kicking in some lute.

[Ickybaluky]

Ah, you've been there, huh?

You can visit yourself: http://www.azcardinals.com/stadium/photos.php

Check out the 3D animation, it is pretty amazing. Retractable roof, sliding grass field, plus it looks like a space ship from the outside.

[!Papacrunk!]

why build a new stadium?? RWS sells out for every game now. How many corporate honchoes do you think there are in Buffalo?
I imagine the biggest reason would be to host Super Bowls. I don't mean this as a knock on Buffalo, but since I've never been there (I'm just some guy from IA,) could they support hosting a Super Bowl? Wasn't that the complain against JAX is that even though it was seasonal, they just didn't have the hotel power etc to support the Bowl. Detroit was able to do it in cold, wintery conditions, and Kansas City is trying to get some renovations to their stadium with a retractable roof, so I guess even cold temperature locations can host SBs. As I mentioned before, I'm just some dude from IA so I'd rather travel to a warm place for a SB, but who knows.

[Stewie]

The Jets and Giants are building in NJ and splitting the costs from what I understand... so I don't see how NY would be contributing to a piece of property built on NJ land... maybe they contribute something, but I don't think it'd be much.

The last I was paying attention, the jets were in negotiations to build in manhattan.. I guess that fell through

[Stewie]

While we're discussing pipe dreams.....The Minnesota Twins have pretty much given Minnesota an ultimatum of build us a new park or we're out....Why don't we just build a 65K to 70K seat stadium, retractable roof, and have it for baseball and football and lure the twinkies here.

I've asked this before and I'll ask again....MOST of you, not all, already complain about ticket prices being too high or you won't be able to afford going to the Ralph if they raised ticket prices to more competitive levels. What do you think is gonna happen if they build a new stadium? They're gonna raise ticket prices and probably include a PSL when you first go to get tickets. PSLs cost more than the seat you're buying. Not too mention who do you think is going to mostly fund one of these new stadiums? You, me and every other taxed person in Erie County.

Thats why I asked if you as a taxpayer want to pay for it.. Keep in mind that using state funds means everyone pays for it, not just erie county. And with some political support, NYS could add a surcharge to all hotel receipts and/or rental cars, to pay for the states portion. That's what arizona is doing, and something tells me NYC has more hotel rooms than phoenix.

[BillyT92679]

and the Bills aren't? :huh:
What I mean is that Boston survives and thrives (or to be more accurate, rebounded since the 1970's) and does not really need a holistic stadium/infrastructure upgrade package that the Buffalo-Niagara MSA needs.

A downtown stadium, anchoring the long dormant waterfront project, would revitalize an area that has boundless but unrealized potential (brownfields duly noted)

[EricStratton]

The last I was paying attention, the jets were in negotiations to build in manhattan.. I guess that fell through


That's been a done deal for 6 months or so. The teams are putting up about 850 million to build in Jersey.

The Jets are also moving their training and office stuff to Jersey.

After that the Bills will be 100% the only team in NY.

[Stewie]

All the more reason that NYS should pony up some cash to keep their franchise and to create more reasons for people to visit downtown buffalo.