Seriously, are you confident with our QB situation?

[Billscusey]

I just wanted to get an idea of how many Zoners are actually confident with the QB's the Bills have. I don't know about the rest of you, but Losman, Holcomb and Nall don't really inspire me with confidence. With Brady at NE, Culpepper (and possibly Harrignton) at Miami, and the possibility of NY trading up to get Leinart, this season could see us seriously outclassed in the division at this position.

Thoughts?

[ICE74129]

My thoughts are fix the OL and we run the ball better and give JP or Nall more time. that makes for better QB play.

Fix the DL so we can stop the run, put pressure on the opposing QB which helps get us off of the field and the ball back into the QB's hands. That improves QB play.

Do those things FIRST before ever thinking about getting another QB

[justasportsfan]

I'm not quite confident but quite anxious to see what Jp can do with the right coaching staff. Hopefully we have the right one. The last one was so far over his head he almost ended JP's career by puitting him in a bad position.

If Jp can live up to his *cough* potential* Cough* , watch out. If not, we're in trouble. Then again, the same thing can be said about every qb in this draft. I see no difference between Jp nad any of the qb's in the draft.

[Philagape]

In JP I trust!

[OpIv37]

I agree with both Ice and Justa- JP needs a real shot, and the way to do that is by fixing the OL. I'm definitely not sold on the kid, but right now he's all we got and anything in the draft is just as big a gamble. I'm willing to give him a chance, but I don't expect him to light up the league this year. Progress throughout the season is what I'm expecting- and if it doesn't happen the JP experiment should be considered a failure after this season.

As far as Miami- Culpepper is injured and won't be able to help the team. Harrington just sucks.

As far as the Jets- Pennington sucks and if they trade up to get Leinart, he won't be able to help them right away cuz QB's take time to develop (plus I'm not sold on Leinart as an NFL QB, but that's JMO).

[mayotm]

I'm causitously optimistic that JP will be much improved this year.

[BAM]

What is there to be confident about! I haven't seen anything from any of our QBs to make me feel confident. Not hating, just stating how it is!

[Captain gameboy]

At some point, the laws of probability must smile on our Bills.
I am hopeful that JP is the guy.

[Meathead]

heck yeah im confident

depends some on your definition but in general im positive they'll get a capable starter or better

knock him all you want but kelly holcomb completed 68% of his passes behind one of the worst lines in the league and completely without a rb or te pass catching threat. on top of that he still threw for more tds than ints, also impressive given the bad situations the bills often found themselves in

it wasnt spectacular but any way you spin it thats still damn impressive. if holcomb gets the job at any time i will be confident in competant quarterbacking when he plays

sure, im hoping he doesnt win the job because with jps skills he could be a bonafide star. flutie with a rocket lets call him. if so hed leave competant quarterbacking in the dust and i think in the long run thats more likely to happen than not

personally i dont give nall much of a chance to start right now but who the hell knows maybe marv has pulled a rabbit out of his hemmoroids

having gone through some pretty gruesome quarterback situations with buffalo id say this one is not too bad at all

[Jan Reimers]

Yes. Build a better line, commit to a power running game, and let JP play, but don't expect him to be Brett Favre after 8 games.

[ICE74129]

heck yeah im confident

depends some on your definition but in general im positive they'll get a capable starter or better

knock him all you want but kelly holcomb completed 68% of his passes behind one of the worst lines in the league and completely without a rb or te pass catching threat. on top of that he still threw for more tds than ints, also impressive given the bad situations the bills often found themselves in

it wasnt spectacular but any way you spin it thats still damn impressive. if holcomb gets the job at any time i will be confident in competant quarterbacking when he plays

sure, im hoping he doesnt win the job because with jps skills he could be a bonafide star. flutie with a rocket lets call him. if so hed leave competant quarterbacking in the dust and i think in the long run thats more likely to happen than not

personally i dont give nall much of a chance to start right now but who the hell knows maybe marv has pulled a rabbit out of his hemmoroids

having gone through some pretty gruesome quarterback situations with buffalo id say this one is not too bad at all

Holcomb threw for 10 td's 8 ints. Not impressive at all. 68%? hell if I dumped off the ball on every play I could do that too.

Sorry, holcomb starts, we are dead from day one.

[ublinkwescore]

My thoughts are fix the OL and we run the ball better and give JP or Nall more time. that makes for better QB play.

Fix the DL so we can stop the run, put pressure on the opposing QB which helps get us off of the field and the ball back into the QB's hands. That improves QB play.

Do those things FIRST before ever thinking about getting another QB

I think it all comes down to if our Oline can open holes in the running game, and if they can give who ever's under center time to survey the field.

JP looked as sharp as a knife WHEN he had time last year.

So I'll give a more valid opinion after I've seen what our Oline does during preseason.

[bigbub2352]

I agree with Ice, JP needs a oline and an offensive scheme that fits his style of play, plus a running game that does more then dive up the middle, and a TE who can get up feild, not fall down after the catch, I have confidence in JP, he is not Rob Johnson and is way to young to be called a bum or bust

[Meathead]

no you must agree with me me meeeeee

http://www.onceuponalife.com/forums/images/smilies/tantrum.gif

[ICE74129]

no you must agree with me me meeeeee

http://www.onceuponalife.com/forums/images/smilies/tantrum.gif

Ummmm...No.

[DraftBoy]

Not at all confident, I have seen nothing by way of consistency, put the blame where you please, OL, coaching, WR whatever...fact is the kid has shown quick and limited flashes. I expect to either see huge improvements or Ill be looking at 07 rd 1 and 2 for QB's.

[ICE74129]

Not at all confident, I have seen nothing by way of consistency, put the blame where you please, OL, coaching, WR whatever...fact is the kid has shown quick and limited flashes. I expect to either see huge improvements or Ill be looking at 07 rd 1 and 2 for QB's.

Which is fine...IF the OL is fixed.

[Jan Reimers]

Not at all confident, I have seen nothing by way of consistency, put the blame where you please, OL, coaching, WR whatever...fact is the kid has shown quick and limited flashes. I expect to either see huge improvements or Ill be looking at 07 rd 1 and 2 for QB's.
It's hard to see much consistency from a guy with a lousy offensive line, a horrendous coaching staff, and 8 career starts.

[justasportsfan]

It's hard to see much consistency from a guy with a lousy offensive line, a horrendous coaching staff, and 8 career starts.the past regime's idea of running the ball is for the qb to run for his life with the ball in his hand.

[DraftBoy]

It's hard to see much consistency from a guy with a lousy offensive line, a horrendous coaching staff, and 8 career starts.


Disagree esp bc the guy showed the consistency I expeted to see with a crappy OL at Tulane. I dont buy the OL excuse, I dont buy the coaching excuses. He just looked bad plain and simple, and he looked bad in the same conditions that made him look good at Tulane, I prefer to think he was still not used to the speed of the game, and I expect to see leaps forward this season, if not its time to cut our ties.

[Luisito23]

Seriously, NO!...




GO BILLS!!!!

[feelthepain]

Holcomb threw for 10 td's 8 ints. Not impressive at all. 68%? hell if I dumped off the ball on every play I could do that too.

Sorry, holcomb starts, we are dead from day one.


Here are Losmans stats:
<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg3><TD>2005</TD><TD>Buffalo Bills</TD><TD>9</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>228</TD><TD>113</TD><TD>49.6</TD><TD>1340</TD><TD>5.88</TD><TD>58</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>26/197</TD><TD>15</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>64.9</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

....how are they better then Holcomb?? I know you love JP, but try to be a little less one sided and realize neither QB's #s were very good, but Holcombs were better.

[ICE74129]

Here are Losmans stats:
<table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="bg3"><td>2005</td><td>Buffalo Bills</td><td>9</td><td>8</td><td>228</td><td>113</td><td>49.6</td><td>1340</td><td>5.88</td><td>58</td><td>8</td><td>8</td><td>26/197</td><td>15</td><td>6</td><td>64.9</td></tr></tbody></table>

....how are they better then Holcomb?? I know you love JP, but try to be a little less one sided and realize neither QB's #s were very good, but Holcombs were better.

Go to NFL.com and look up the career crap stats for holcomb. he is a career loser. JP was a first year player. I dont' care if it's JP, PJ, OJ, or BJ at the helm as long as that buttclown holcomb isn't the QB.

[TacklingDummy]

The only stat. I care about is wins/loss...and when Holcomb started the Bills were 4-4, when JP started the Bills were 1-7. And that win was against the worst team in the league.

Of course Holcomb had better stats. then JP, he's a better QB at this point.

Im tired of hearing excuses for JP, O-line, coaching, vets. against him, wasn't given a real shot. It's really no ones fault but his own. He was given a golden chance to play QB and he sucked.

Why is it the offense and offensive line looked 10 times better with Holcomb starting?

[TacklingDummy]

JP was a first year player. .

Actually its a fact it was JPs 2nd year.

[Jan Reimers]

All of you JP bashers are far too judgmental, and closed minded, concerning a young QB with only 8 starts. With your philosophy, the careers of John Elway, Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning - to name just a few - would never have gotten off the ground.

Give the kid a chance - perhaps a whole season of starting - before you call for his scalp.

And those of you who think we are going anywhere with Holcomb need to really consider switching your interest to badminton or curling or figure skating.

[The_Philster]

I'm causitously optimistic that JP will be much improved this year.
agreed :clap:

[The_Philster]

The only stat. I care about is wins/loss...and when Holcomb started the Bills were 4-4, when JP started the Bills were 1-7. And that win was against the worst team in the league.

Of course Holcomb had better stats. then JP, he's a better QB at this point.

Im tired of hearing excuses for JP, O-line, coaching, vets. against him, wasn't given a real shot. It's really no ones fault but his own. He was given a golden chance to play QB and he sucked.

Why is it the offense and offensive line looked 10 times better with Holcomb starting?
why is it you can't grasp the fact that very few QBs ever look that good in their first year?

[Jan Reimers]

Let's face it. None of us know whether JP is going to be a quality QB in this league or not. He simply hasn't played enough. But based on his great physical tools, he certainly deserves a reasonable opportunity.

But what is really ironic is that some people are writing off JP after 8 starts, but completely ignoring Holcomb's 10 years of mediocrity and calling for him to start.

[patmoran2006]

When I see a REASON to be confident in the Bills QB situation I will be.. I"ve seen NOTHING that reeks of confidence from ANY of these guys as of now.

[Nublar7]

Seriously, the Bills have the worst quarteback situation in the AFC east.

1. Tom Brady(Patriots)
2. Daunte Culpepper(Dolphins)
3. Chad Pennington(Jets)
4. Joey Harrington(Dolphins)
5. Kelly Holcomb(Bills)
6. Patrick Ramsey(Jets)
7. JP Losman(Bills)
8. Brooks Bollinger(Jets)
9. Craig Nall(Bills)
10. Cleo Lemon(Dolphins)
11. Matt Cassel(Patriots)
12. Todd Mortenson(Patriots)

[PromoTheRobot]

What is the point of a question like this? You might as well ask people if they worry about getting cancer!

The Bills QB situation is not settled. No one knows who the starter is going to be. What do you think people are going say????

I suspect that posters like you just like to stir up bad feelings. You find something about the Bills that is up in the air, and ask "Are you worried about.....???" If someone wasn't worried before they read your post, they are afterwards. Mission accomplished.

PTR

[The Natrix]

Seriously, the Bills have the worst quarteback situation in the AFC east.

1. Tom Brady(Patriots)
2. Daunte Culpepper(Dolphins)
3. Chad Pennington(Jets)
4. Joey Harrington(Dolphins)
5. Kelly Holcomb(Bills)
6. Patrick Ramsey(Jets)
7. JP Losman(Bills)
8. Brooks Bollinger(Jets)
9. Craig Nall(Bills)
10. Cleo Lemon(Dolphins)
11. Matt Cassel(Patriots)
12. Todd Mortenson(Patriots)

1. Tom Brady(Patriots)
2. Daunte Culpepper(Dolphins)
3. Chad Pennington(Jets)
4. Kelly Holcomb(Bills)
5. Patrick Ramsey(Jets)
6. Joey Harrington(Dolphins)
7. JP Losman(Bills)
8. Brooks Bollinger(Jets)
9. Craig Nall(Bills)
10. Matt Cassel(Patriots)
11. Cleo Lemon(Dolphins)
12. Todd Mortenson(Patriots)


I think this is how it should look as far as what they have done so far. I don't think there is any dispute that Holcomb has done more in the league than Harrington. He almost won a playoff game with the Browns and he ran the Bills offense better last year than Harrington ever had for the Lions.

However, this is not a ranking of who I would want on my team. That ranking is as follows:

1. Tom Brady(Patriots)
2. JP Losman (Bills)
3. Daunte Culpepper(Dolphins)
4. Chad Pennington(Jets)
5. Matt Cassel(Patriots)
6. Craig Nall (Bills)
7. Kelly Holcomb(Bills)
8. Patrick Ramsey(Jets)
9. Brooks Bollinger(Jets)
10. Joey Harrington (Dolphins)
11. Cleo Lemon(Dolphins)
12. Todd Mortenson(Patriots)

[TacklingDummy]

why is it you can't grasp the fact that very few QBs ever look that good in their first year?

Hmmm, how come alot of people can't grasp the fact that it was JPs second year, now going into his 3rd.

[TacklingDummy]

All of you JP bashers are far too judgmental, and closed minded, concerning a young QB with only 8 starts. With your philosophy, the careers of John Elway, Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning - to name just a few - would never have gotten off the ground.

.

And only if Heath Shuler, Ryan Leaf, David Klinger, Akili Smith, Rob Johnson, Andre Ware, Todd Marinovich, Jim Drunkenmiller, Joey Harrington were given more time. They would of been good QBs.

[justasportsfan]

Seriously, the Bills have the worst quarteback situation in the AFC east.

1. Tom Brady(Patriots)
2. Daunte Culpepper(Dolphins)
3. Chad Pennington(Jets)
4. Joey Harrington(Dolphins)
5. Kelly Holcomb(Bills)
6. Patrick Ramsey(Jets)
7. JP Losman(Bills)
8. Brooks Bollinger(Jets)
9. Craig Nall(Bills)
10. Cleo Lemon(Dolphins)
11. Matt Cassel(Patriots)
12. Todd Mortenson(Patriots)
ON paper.

[patmoran2006]

And only if Heath Shuler, Ryan Leaf, David Klinger, Akili Smith, Rob Johnson, Andre Ware, Todd Marinovich, Jim Drunkenmiller, Joey Harrington were given more time. They would of been good QBs.

Dont be shocked if Jay Cutler is a Bill.. Marv might take his version of "Jim Kelly." dont be shocked.. that's all im saying.

I actually agree with you 100% about the time crap.. JP either has it or he doesnt, and Im not saying he doesnt.. But he reminds me a hell of a lot more of the QB's y ou just mentioned in that group than he does of studs who started their careers slowly.

and I'm not saying Jay Cutler would be the popular choice or even the right choice.. But i can GARENTEE you one thing.. After all the pissing and moaning on "why did we draft a QB" subsides.. This team now has a leader.

[The_Philster]

Hmmm, how come alot of people can't grasp the fact that it was JPs second year, now going into his 3rd.
:rolleyes: Hey genius...was he the starting QB his rookie year in the league?

Here's a little clue...no one said 2005 was his first year in the league...but it sure as hell was his first year actually getting to play..garbage time notwithstanding.

[Ohio Fanatic]

My thoughts are fix the OL and we run the ball better and give JP or Nall more time. that makes for better QB play.

Fix the DL so we can stop the run, put pressure on the opposing QB which helps get us off of the field and the ball back into the QB's hands. That improves QB play.

Do those things FIRST before ever thinking about getting another QB

Wow, so you guys aren't even considering Holcomb? He's fairly young, so it's not like you're building for the future with the young guys. Or is it just because you overspent to get Loseman?

[Nublar7]

ON paper.Nope, on the field with their respective coaching staffs.

[Billscusey]

What is the point of a question like this? You might as well ask people if they worry about getting cancer!

The Bills QB situation is not settled. No one knows who the starter is going to be. What do you think people are going say????

I suspect that posters like you just like to stir up bad feelings. You find something about the Bills that is up in the air, and ask "Are you worried about.....???" If someone wasn't worried before they read your post, they are afterwards. Mission accomplished.

PTR

Hey, if you're not worried, you're not worried! It's as simple as that! If by merely asking the question, I am causing people to suddenly andcompletely change their stance on the situation, then they are weak-willed anyway! I don't think anyone is changing their opinions because of little old me!

[justasportsfan]

Nope, on the field with their respective coaching staffs.Culppeper is coming off his worse year. No one knows how he'll do without Moss and there's the knee problem. Until there are facts, it's paper.

[Exile]

the bills shulda traded for culpepper before the fish got him! all 3 qbs in buffalo are toilet paper i think.

[Michael82]

I saw some definite improvement thru the season from JP Losman, no matter how the moron coach ****ed the situation up. I can't wait to see what another year of experience will do for him and I believe he will win the job in training camp and impress some people. :up:

I also believe that Craig Nall will be the backup and Kelly Holcomb will be cut after training camp.

[Pinkerton Security]

Wow, so you guys aren't even considering Holcomb? He's fairly young, so it's not like you're building for the future with the young guys. Or is it just because you overspent to get Loseman?

If Kelly Holcomb is "fairly young", then what is JP, pre-birth? Christ, Holcomb is 33 years old this summer and last year when we were not in any way going to make the playoffs, lets put in a 33-year old who is on a brief stint with the team before he retires into anonymity? thats garbage. Jim Kelly (everyone bow your heads) had damn near the same W/L as JP HIS first 7 or 8 starts, and look what he did! No rings, but I'd say I'd take another Jim as our QB. However, it could be because we did spend a good deal on losman. You cant simply throw away a first rounder. JP definitely has the potential to be a star, it is definitely yet to be seen whether or not he will pan out.

[Jan Reimers]

And only if Heath Shuler, Ryan Leaf, David Klinger, Akili Smith, Rob Johnson, Andre Ware, Todd Marinovich, Jim Drunkenmiller, Joey Harrington were given more time. They would of been good QBs.
Most of these guys - if they didn't self implode like Druckenmiller - had far more than 8 starts to prove themselves. Many, including Shuler, Johnson and Harrington, had several seasons.

And that's my point. We won't know if JP is going to be John Elway or Andre Ware until we give him an adequate opportunity to play.

[TacklingDummy]

Dont be shocked if Jay Cutler is a Bill.. Marv might take his version of "Jim Kelly." dont be shocked.. that's all im saying.



I dont want Cutler. He will be added to the list of Losman, Harrington, Marinovich, Akili Smith, Andre Ware etc....

I do agree with you that either a QB has it or doesn't. And so far JP has showed that he doesn't have it.

[TacklingDummy]

I also believe that Craig Nall will be the backup and Kelly Holcomb will be cut after training camp.


Well you are wrong. The Bills are not gonna cut their only QB with more then 8 games of NFL experience and their best QB on the roster. Even though he sucks too.

[Jan Reimers]

Well you are wrong. The Bills are not gonna cut their only QB with more then 8 games of NFL experience and their best QB on the roster. Even though he sucks too.
What's your alternative, TDummy? Everybody on the roster sucks, Cutler sucks, etc., according to you. Do you have a plan, or did you give yourself that screen name for a very valid reason?

[TacklingDummy]

What's your alternative, TDummy? Everybody on the roster sucks, Cutler sucks, etc., according to you. Do you have a plan, or did you give yourself that screen name for a very valid reason?


My plan is to go with Holcomb (the best of the 3 bums) and draft Quinn next year.

[Mr. Pink]

Draft Jacobs this year in Round 3, let Holcomb be placeholder for like 6 games. Then turn the reigns over to Jacobs. That way he gets experience for next year when MAYBE just maybe we'll have enough of the holes fixed to be a legitimate threat in the AFC East.

I say Holcomb because if there is an open competition in training camp, he's going to win. We all agree that JP still doesn't "get it," he still hasn't gone through all the growing pains and establishing himself. Holcomb a veteran will easily win the competition. And don't even think Nall has a shot here, he was unable to outright "win" the backup role in GB.

[Jan Reimers]

My plan is to go with Holcomb (the best of the 3 bums) and draft Quinn next year.
So. . . let a first round draft pick with limitless potential languish on the bench - judged to be a bust after an 8 game career - and start a journeyman, completely ignoring his 10 year record of abject mediocrity.

Great plan.

[Philagape]

We all agree that JP still doesn't "get it,"

No, we don't all agree. I don't, because I don't evaluate JP in the present tense. That's just plain absurd. It doesn't matter what JP did last year, or even where he is this very moment; all that matters is how he'll play this season.

[Philagape]

To those who bash JP for his play last year: Do you also criticize babies for not being able to talk?

[Mr. Pink]

To those who bash JP for his play last year: Do you also criticize babies for not being able to talk?

No, I criticize him for not showing any improvement from week 1 til the end of the year. His lone bright spot of the year was the KC game, and he didn't even start that game. Most players through development show improvement, he showed none. He looks NO different than Kyle Boller did as a rookie. And his scouting report out of college also looked no different. Where they were selected in the draft? No different. Both late first rounders.

Maybe he can show improvement, maybe he can't. Point is this, if it's an open competition NO WAY in hell he's beating out Holcomb. Holcomb is at his best in that situation or the one to two games where he has to "prove something." Hell even Tim Couch couldn't beat out Holcomb and no offense, Couch had/has more skills and talent than JP does.

[justasportsfan]

No, I criticize him for not showing any improvement from week 1 til the end of the year. His lone bright spot of the year was the KC game, and he didn't even start that game. Most players through development show improvement, he showed none. He looks NO different than Kyle Boller did as a rookie. And his scouting report out of college also looked no different. Where they were selected in the draft? No different. Both late first rounders.

Maybe he can show improvement, maybe he can't. Point is this, if it's an open competition NO WAY in hell he's beating out Holcomb. Holcomb is at his best in that situation or the one to two games where he has to "prove something." Hell even Tim Couch couldn't beat out Holcomb and no offense, Couch had/has more skills and talent than JP does.

He did pretty well against the fins.

Couch more talent than Jp? How'd you figure that out in just 8 games?

[Philagape]

No, I criticize him for not showing any improvement from week 1 til the end of the year.

He didn't play at the end of the year. Before that, he did show improvement. Playing well at Miami is beyond expectations, and then he did as one would expect against the Pats.


He looks NO different than Kyle Boller did as a rookie.

Or John Elway, or Troy Aikman, or Steve Young

[Mr. Pink]

He did pretty well against the fins.

Couch more talent than Jp? How'd you figure that out in just 8 games?

Very easily, Couch was thrown to the wolves and showed more promise as a rookie in the NFL. Then was beaten out by Kelly Holcomb in camp and ONE impressive game vs the Steelers in the playoffs. Plus out of college Couch was the 1st overall pick, so obviously he "had/has" talent.

JP got to sit down a year, watch, observe, learn under a QB who most people don't like him around here but has thrown for over 40,000 yards at the NFL level and has had a long and productive NFL career. By the same token with the Phins, how'd he look in the second half? So if you want to say that JP showed improvement at any point in time, he played 5 decent quarters as an NFL QB....5 out of 34. Texans-first half, KC and Miami-first half. How about this part, Losman was "allegedly" injured in the first half vs the Pats, played the whole game anyways, then was benched in week 17. Why?

People like to throw mis-managed and coaches trying to save their jobs, Mathews coulda started week 17 and didn't matter anymore, yet they chose Holcomb to start the game. Winning week 17 wouldn't save anyones' job. Nor did you see Ralph going in saying start JP. So you ask how come Holcomb started. Why? Because out of 3 guys who aren't very good, Holcomb is the best one. Sadly. Very Sadly at that.

Now we throw Nall into the equation....maybe he's good enough, maybe he's not. But he couldn't become the number 2 in GB by winning the job. Hell the Pack even brought in Tim Couch to be the "heir apparent" to Favre, problem with Couch is he had a shoulder injury he didn't disclose when signing, then again he never disclosed the same injury to Cleveland.

[ublinkwescore]

Disagree esp bc the guy showed the consistency I expeted to see with a crappy OL at Tulane. I dont buy the OL excuse, I dont buy the coaching excuses. He just looked bad plain and simple, and he looked bad in the same conditions that made him look good at Tulane, I prefer to think he was still not used to the speed of the game, and I expect to see leaps forward this season, if not its time to cut our ties.

Well, maybe at this level, JP needs a line in front of him.

It's hard to argue with what he's done when our O line has given him time - see the Texans game, the Chiefs game, and the Dolphins game where he threw 3 tds to Lee Evans in the first quarter.

[Mr. Pink]

He didn't play at the end of the year. Before that, he did show improvement. Playing well at Miami is beyond expectations, and then he did as one would expect against the Pats.

He played 5 good quarters out of 32. And in his last start of the year, vs the Pats, who yes are the Pats. But they had a terrible pass defense after Rodney Harrison was hurt. Losman had arguably one of his worst outings all year. Then he was "allegedly" injured in the game never to be seen again.



Or John Elway, or Troy Aikman, or Steve Young

Please stop comparing JP to the likes of guys who were the number 1 overall pick in their respective drafts. There's a reason they're taken number 1 overall and not 20th. Or even the 1st QB selected to the third. To even say JP will have a career along the lines of one these guys is not realistic. Guys are taken number 1 because they have massive amounts of talent and don't have question marks.

[jmb1099]

This is just stupid. First of all Losman did make improvements as the season went on. As has already been pointed out, he did well against the Fins. Second, stop giving credit to Holcumb for the KC game. Holcomb scored exactly 0 points in that game, he had nothing to do with the win, nothing, period, nada. Third, there is no way to know how Losman will turn out because he hasn't had enough time with quality coaching and a quality line. Tom Brady would have been killed behind our line last year as would any other QB. I'm not saying that I know for sure how Losman will turn out, I'm saying neither does anyone else at this point and the only way to know is for him to be given a real shot. Oh...and to predict Cutler to be a bum before he's even drafted...not bright. I guess the commercial was wrong...you can not learn a lot from a dummy

[bledslow]

jets are toast at the position,miami is up in the air as well. culPECKER is very erratic and coming of a major injury,and harrington is almost as bad as jp losman.

bills have holcomb and should be lucky that he is there. he put up solid numbers while missing his best receiver(moulds) for a decent amount of time.and was the victim of some dropped balls(i remember a number of those drops should have been for about 20 yard gains).
and if the bills get vernon davis,they might be a little scary in the division.















until rodney harrison breaks vernons back.

[ibatiger]

Now we throw Nall into the equation....maybe he's good enough, maybe he's not. But he couldn't become the number 2 in GB by winning the job. Hell the Pack even brought in Tim Couch to be the "heir apparent" to Favre, problem with Couch is he had a shoulder injury he didn't disclose when signing, then again he never disclosed the same injury to Cleveland.

Maybe he's good enough to be the starter and maybe he'd not. I would bet that he is, but to say that he couldn't win the no. 2 job at Green Bay is misleading for sure. Couch was brought in to replace PEDERSON in Nall's second year. It was assumed that Nall would continue to be no. 3 and the Pack needed a viable candidate to compete with Nall for post-Favre Green Bay QB duty. Nall was still considered a diamond in the rough who only needed time. Couch could not beat out Pederson and for the second year in a row Nall stepped up and showed that he had enormous potential, so Couch, rather than Nall was cut in the end. The next year it was Smith, with the exact same scenario and result. Remember, it was thought that each year was possibly Favre's last and Sherman wanted an experienced backup alongside Nall. Pederson was not considered an option due to age and quite frankly, a weak arm. That year (Nall's third) was when Pederson was injured and Nall replaced him and showed that he should have probably been the primary backup all along. He was lights out at every opportunity that he had rather than the usual dismal showing that virtually every backup QB in the league has put up at every opportunity. Still, the new GM came in and drafted Rodgers in the first round, as his philosiphy is to take the best player available. Otherwise Green Bay was only looking at possibly a later round QB to compete with Nall and O'Sullivan in camp. Everybody from the writers to the janitors at Green Bay knew that Nall was the real backup to Favre last year. That's life in the NFL. Nall is as proven as a backup as you can get. Much more so than 90% of other backup QBs and certainly well deserving of a shot at starting. The competition at QB will be very stiff and I assure you that if Losman beats out Nall then he will have earned it.

[TacklingDummy]

He did pretty well against the fins.




For a Quarter. Football is 4 Quarters. After the 1st Qtr. these are the drives JP led the Bills offense to.


12:04 2 02:04 BUF 8 4 11 Punt
08:15 2 03:40 BUF 43 8 42 Fumble
03:56 2 00:45 BUF 16 3 0 Punt
00:35 2 00:35 BUF 33 2 4 End of 1st Half
12:58 3 01:35 BUF 15 4 14 Punt
10:06 3 05:52 BUF 38 11 70 Intercepted Pass
00:23 3 13:41 BUF 20 5 -3 Punt
11:29 4 01:21 BUF 15 5 6 Punt
07:35 4 04:19 BUF 20 9 24 Punt
02:29 4 00:12 BUF 49 3 -4 Punt

That's a big reason why the Bills lost.

Because after the 1st Qtr. the JP led Bills offense did nothing. And if it wasn't for that horrible pass near the goal line the Bills would of won.

[TacklingDummy]

Second, stop giving credit to Holcumb for the KC game.


Not given Holcomb credit. It's a fact the Bills were 4-4 when Holcomb started and 1-7 when JP did.

And Losman didn't play all that great against KC. Unless you call 163 yards of offense in over 2+ Qtrs great.

Losman had 9 drives in the KC game. 7 of them were for 5 plays of less. Against one of the worst defenses in the NFL.

The Bills beat KC because the Defense played awesome against 1 of the best O's in the NFL.

[justasportsfan]

For a Quarter. Football is 4 Quarters. After the 1st Qtr. these are the drives JP led the Bills offense to.


12:04 2 02:04 BUF 8 4 11 Punt
08:15 2 03:40 BUF 43 8 42 Fumble
03:56 2 00:45 BUF 16 3 0 Punt
00:35 2 00:35 BUF 33 2 4 End of 1st Half
12:58 3 01:35 BUF 15 4 14 Punt
10:06 3 05:52 BUF 38 11 70 Intercepted Pass
00:23 3 13:41 BUF 20 5 -3 Punt
11:29 4 01:21 BUF 15 5 6 Punt
07:35 4 04:19 BUF 20 9 24 Punt
02:29 4 00:12 BUF 49 3 -4 Punt

That's a big reason why the Bills lost.

Because after the 1st Qtr. the JP led Bills offense did nothing. And if it wasn't for that horrible pass near the goal line the Bills would of won.


If everyone were like you who loves to judge qb's after 8 games who happen to have a crappy coach and OL, guys like Farve and Steve Young wouldn't be HOF's.

[TacklingDummy]

If everyone were like you who loves to judge qb's after 8 games who happen to have a crappy coach and OL, guys like Farve and Steve Young wouldn't be HOF's.

And if everyone was like you guys like Losman, Harrington, Johnson, Marinovich, Smith, Klingler, Drunkenmiller, Leaf, Shuler all would be future HOFs if given enough time.

[The_Philster]

Please stop comparing JP to the likes of guys who were the number 1 overall pick in their respective drafts. There's a reason they're taken number 1 overall and not 20th. Or even the 1st QB selected to the third. To even say JP will have a career along the lines of one these guys is not realistic. Guys are taken number 1 because they have massive amounts of talent and don't have question marks.One..I've yet to see anyone compare JP to any #1 overall pick...I've only seen references to them to educate some people on history...1st year QBs usually struggle their first years in the league...I don't give a **** what slot they were drafted in..facts are facts...and accusing people of doing something they aren't doing only hurts your argument and credibility.
Secondly, every player in the draft has a question mark...they've never played a down in the NFL...you can't know how they'll turn out

[Mr. Pink]

One..I've yet to see anyone compare JP to any #1 overall pick...I've only seen references to them to educate some people on history...1st year QBs usually struggle their first years in the league...I don't give a **** what slot they were drafted in..facts are facts...and accusing people of doing something they aren't doing only hurts your argument and credibility.
Secondly, every player in the draft has a question mark...they've never played a down in the NFL...you can't know how they'll turn out

FYI....Philgappe threw in the Troy Aikman, Steve Young, John Elway comparison. By stating look how good they did in the beginning of their careers. So yes, he was attempting to make a comparison there. Perhaps you didn't take it as such. But he could used better examples of QBs who took some time to mature and produce, a good first example would be Donovan McNabb. And I can't argue that one there. Like I stated previously though every QB who's thrown into the fire shows "flashes" at one time or another in his career or progression. Even Scott Zolak did that in New England prior to Bledsoe being drafted. To me JP has shown ZERO progression and had his worst outing vs the Pats.

To not give a **** where someone is drafted, why doesn't the Titans or Jets go out and draft Brodie Croyle in Rd1 as opposed to Vince Young or Matt Leinart? Guys are taken where they are taken for a reason. Talent, raw ability and perceived ability to succeed at the NFL level. There's a HUGE gap in talent between JP Losman and John Elway. Hell, even JP and Big Ben or Phillip Rivers for that matter. There is a reason those 2 guys were drafted ahead of him.

Now of course, there's hits, there's misses....but every first year QB who turned into something later down the line showed progression. And to call 5 good quarters out of 34 as something to hang your hat on and say "good job" is not something I look forward to.

And sadly TDummy has a legitimate point, and i haven't agreed with him on anything before this, JP had all kinds of weapons offensively to succeed. A good RB, 2 good WR, and a TE who has been a possession target in the past. Everyone wants to sit back and blame the line, now yes, on some plays you can. But you adjust and hit the flats or slants, quicker routes that take less time to develop. That could be a combination of JPs' ineffectiveness and the playcalling patheticness though. But....JP was sacked 26 times for negative 197 yards with 228 pass attempts....and Holcomb was sacked 17 times for negative 140 yards with 230 pass attempts. So the offensive line wasn't completely to blame for being inept. As much as so many around here like to claim. But yes, I agree, Bennie Anderson just needs to be put out to pasture.

[Philagape]

Guys are taken number 1 because they have massive amounts of talent and don't have question marks.

Like Jeff George, Tim Couch and Alex Smith?

Where someone is drafted is irrelevant.

So is any QB's first year starting, which is my point.

[Mr. Pink]

Like Jeff George, Tim Couch and Alex Smith?

Where someone is drafted is irrelevant.

So is any QB's first year starting, which is my point.

Jeff George has probably the strongest arm of any QB any of us have ever seen. He didn't have it between the ears. He was taken because of his immense talent on the hopes he would mentally come around. Don't forget he did have productive seasons as a pro.

Tim Couch was thrown to the wolves in 99 on even I can admit the worst team ever assembled. He got pummeled, pounded and killed week in and week out. He did throw more TDs than INTs as a rookie and lead the team to the majority of their victories in the 2002 campaign that lead to a playoff berth. That then started the Kelly Holcomb is "good" theory.

Wait, I lied, Alex Smith just might have been thrown to the wolves on the worst team ever assembled. He looked like complete garbage and had one weapon all year...Brandon Lloyd. Eric Johnson their best weapon, tight end was out all year....they had NO semblance of a running game. Not too mention I'm not sure if Smith could hit sand if he fell off a camel.

[dolphinssuck]

Losman, Holcomb, and Nall may not be among the leagues best but if you fix the line give them more time to work the Bills should be OK. Losman is pretty mobile and has a good arm but not when hes constantly on the run for his life. Holcomd is not really that bad a QB but not as mobile as Losman but has the experience but IMO Losman should start next season.

[The_Philster]

FYI....Philgappe threw in the Troy Aikman, Steve Young, John Elway comparison. By stating look how good they did in the beginning of their careers. So yes, he was attempting to make a comparison there. so you're a mind reader now?


And sadly TDummy has a legitimate point,anyone saying that has to seriously think hard about their stance on something..the guy doesn't even realize football is a team game

[PromoTheRobot]

Hey, if you're not worried, you're not worried! It's as simple as that! If by merely asking the question, I am causing people to suddenly andcompletely change their stance on the situation, then they are weak-willed anyway! I don't think anyone is changing their opinions because of little old me!
It's just a stupid pointless question that cannot be answered. Ask this question AFTER a the draft, AFTER a starter is named, and AFTER we know who will be blocking.

PTR

[PromoTheRobot]

Not given Holcomb credit. It's a fact the Bills were 4-4 when Holcomb started and 1-7 when JP did.

And Losman didn't play all that great against KC. Unless you call 163 yards of offense in over 2+ Qtrs great.

Losman had 9 drives in the KC game. 7 of them were for 5 plays of less. Against one of the worst defenses in the NFL.

The Bills beat KC because the Defense played awesome against 1 of the best O's in the NFL.

And the Bills blew a 20 point lead to Miami because Losman couldn't cover Chambers...oops I mean Clements...aww screw it, we all know it was JP's fault!

PTR

[Philagape]

I hereby state for ultimate clarity the reason why quarterbacks such as John Elway and Troy Aikman are mentioned in conversations regarding JP Losman.
The point is, a quarterback's first season starting is not necessarily an indication of how he will do in his career. The most illustrative way to make that point is to use as examples QBs who made dramatic improvements, to show that such improvements are possible. I am in no way predicting JP will make such an improvement, but only to say that it's possible, and therefore it is irrational to rule it out.
Furthermore, such improvements come about primarily because of mental maturity and the lessons of experience, so I don't accept surrounding casts as an excuse.

To repeat the point, a quarterback's first season starting is not necessarily an indication of how he will do in his career.

To repeat the point again, a quarterback's first season starting is not necessarily an indication of how he will do in his career.

Any further repetitions needed? Shall I contact a lawyer and draw up papers?

[The_Philster]

In other words, you were conducting a history lesson :up:

[TacklingDummy]

Jeff George has probably the strongest arm of any QB any of us have ever seen. He didn't have it between the ears. He was taken because of his immense talent on the hopes he would mentally come around. Don't forget he did have productive seasons as a pro.

Tim Couch was thrown to the wolves in 99 on even I can admit the worst team ever assembled. He got pummeled, pounded and killed week in and week out. He did throw more TDs than INTs as a rookie and lead the team to the majority of their victories in the 2002 campaign that lead to a playoff berth. That then started the Kelly Holcomb is "good" theory.

Wait, I lied, Alex Smith just might have been thrown to the wolves on the worst team ever assembled. He looked like complete garbage and had one weapon all year...Brandon Lloyd. Eric Johnson their best weapon, tight end was out all year....they had NO semblance of a running game. Not too mention I'm not sure if Smith could hit sand if he fell off a camel.

Did Tim Couch, Alex Smith, and Jeff George have the weapons around him that Losman had? I think not.

George....
RB: Dickerson (166 carriers) Albert Bentley (137)
WRs: Bill Brooks (62) Jessie Hester (54) Stanley Morgan (23) Clarence Verdin (14)
TE: Pat Beach(12

And George first year (rookie year, not 2nd year) wasn't as Bad as Losman's. 13 Games, 16 TDs, 13 INTs, 2152 yards.

Tim Couch Also started his rookie year, not his second.

15 TDs, 13 Ints, 2447 yards

with RBs: Terry Kirby, Karim al-Jabbar
WRs: Kevin Johnson (66), Kirby (58), Chiaverini(44), Edwards (27)

Alex Smith: 49ers do blow.

RB: Barlow (176) and Gore (127)
WRs: Arnaz Batle (32), Lloyd (48) Morton (21)
TEs: Bajema (5), Bush (3), Smith (3) Jones (9)

[jmb1099]

Again with the second year BS. Regardless of how long Losman may have been with the team, last year was his first year. Watching films and studying playbooks may be important, but it is not the same as in game experience. This is exactly what I am talking about in the other thread...you just refuse to even acknowledge even the simplest information, factual information regarding Losman's season last year. Again, no disrespect intended it makes your post and your point worthless.