Based on the Bills' Poor Performance....

[OpIv37]

It's been noted that we're pretty close to being Arizone East.

Well, if we take Vince Young tomorrow, you might as well call us NY Jets West. This would be one of the worst draft day decisions EVER.

[patmoran2006]

Respectfully I disagree.

I see Vince Young and I see a winner. I know there's a lion's list of high QB drafted Busts, but I think young is different.. I think he could be a difference maker on this team for many many years. He WILL be a difference maker somewhere. I actually think Leinart is going to the WORST of the three big time QB's.. I think Cutler is going to be a lot better than people think, and I think Vince Young is going to lead someone to a Super Bowl one day.

I also dont think there is a chance in hell he's going to be a Buffalo Bill.

[OpIv37]

People said the samething about Vick. And Aaron Brooks. And Akili Smith. Where are all their rings?

Anyway it doesn't matter if Young is the next Brady with Vick athleticism. We need other positions much more than we need QB's. We need immediate help and no QB- least of all Young- will do that.

[Mitchy moo]

There's a chance Pat, as soon as we let go of the JP dream and realize that we are only as good as the QB we have (no one).

[OpIv37]

There's a chance Pat, as soon as we let go of the JP dream and realize that we are only as good as the QB we have (no one).

the QB's only as good as the OL. McNabb or Brady would look like **** on this team.

There is some hope for the OL- give Nall and Losman a chance with some blocking before doing anything stupid.

Paying for a player who';s gonna ride the pine for at least a year is stupid.

[patmoran2006]

you know what I love about teams like Pittsburgh, NE, Colts, Panthers.

They can go through injuries, but as long as they still have their leader at QB, they are ALWAYS going to be competitive.

Maybe I'm old school and maybe the NFL has changed, but if Im a GM I get the BEST TALENT I can get at QB and then I build my team around him.

I dont treat the QB position like its the right guard or outside linebacker position.. It isnt just a "need" pick.. NOthing is more important than having a good quarterback.. If we had the 1985 Chicago Bears defense then I'd tend to agree more, but we dont.

[The Natrix]

I'm not big on any of the QBs

I just can not see Vince Young as a complete bust. Even if he has trouble readng defenses, he is just to much of an athlete to be ineffective. I don't see him as being an elite QB, but easily a long term starter.

Lienart=Ryan Leaf

Cutler = I have no read on him or gut instinct at all. Nothing he does will surprise me.

[Mitchy moo]

you know what I love about teams like Pittsburgh, NE, Colts, Panthers.

They can go through injuries, but as long as they still have their leader at QB, they are ALWAYS going to be competitive.

Maybe I'm old school and maybe the NFL has changed, but if Im a GM I get the BEST TALENT I can get at QB and then I build my team around him.

I dont treat the QB position like its the right guard or outside linebacker position.. It isnt just a "need" pick.. NOthing is more important than having a good quarterback.. If we had the 1985 Chicago Bears defense then I'd tend to agree more, but we dont.

Bullseye! You could put Brady, Manning on almost any team & go .500.

[OpIv37]

you know what I love about teams like Pittsburgh, NE, Colts, Panthers.

They can go through injuries, but as long as they still have their leader at QB, they are ALWAYS going to be competitive.

Maybe I'm old school and maybe the NFL has changed, but if Im a GM I get the BEST TALENT I can get at QB and then I build my team around him.

I dont treat the QB position like its the right guard or outside linebacker position.. It isnt just a "need" pick.. NOthing is more important than having a good quarterback.. If we had the 1985 Chicago Bears defense then I'd tend to agree more, but we dont.

That makes some sense, but what makes you so positive that young is better than JP or Nall? None of the 3 have any significant NFL experience.

If that's your logic, the smart thing to do would be get someone like Brees who has proven they can play than gamble on draft picks

[Mitchy moo]

That makes some sense, but what makes you so positive that young is better than JP or Nall? None of the 3 have any significant NFL experience.

If that's your logic, the smart thing to do would be get someone like Brees who has proven they can play than gamble on draft picks

Brees is coming in with physical issues and mileage.

[OpIv37]

Brees is coming in with physical issues and mileage.

in the NFL experience counts more than that.

[billsburgh]

the QB's only as good as the OL. McNabb or Brady would look like **** on this team.

There is some hope for the OL- give Nall and Losman a chance with some blocking before doing anything stupid.

Paying for a player who';s gonna ride the pine for at least a year is stupid.
Some people just dont understand. they just want the big name. just like Donahoe did for the last 5 years.

[Mitchy moo]

in the NFL experience counts more than that.

That experience comes at a physical price as well.

[patmoran2006]

I sure as hell cant say Young will be as good as Brady, Roth, Manning or Delhomme, those are big shoes to fill.

But I HATE Holcomb, I hate the fact that GB couldnt give two ****s about Nall even though Favre is soon to retire, and JP imo and maybe only my opinion has proved to me that he's too stupid football-wise to EVER be a real good QB.. I'm FULLY aware he's only played in a handful of games.

Let me put this out there.. We're "taking a huge risk" if we were to take a QB, right? Well, we're also taking JUST a big a risk if we dont.

Lets say we DONT (which we 90% wont).. And I'm right and JP Losman does the same **** this year he did last year.. AT the end of the year Marv decides this guy is a F'n bum and he's gone.. NOW we have to look at a QB all over again in 2007 and the process starts, a year LATER.

So in my book, letting an uproven guy play now like JP (or even Nall) is JUSt as risky as passing up on one of college Football's best quarterbacks ever... Vince Young caliber QB's dont come along every year and even if they did, I dont expect the bills plan to make picking in the top ten a yearly routine.

When you're in the top ten, your QB is UNPROVEN at BEST, and there is a potential franchise QB on the board, you take him.

[patmoran2006]

Some people just dont understand. they just want the big name. just like Donahoe did for the last 5 years.
That's a bunch of crap.

For starters, if Marv does a GOOD Job on draft day, the draft goes MUCH deeper than one pick in the top ten.

almost ANYBODY can pick a good player when they pick in the top ten.

If Marv and his crew have done their job, they'll find PLENTY of "needed" help on both sides of the line in rounds 2-7.. Polian does it seemingly EVERY year.

I dont understand how so many people on this board are downplaying the significance of having a franchise QB..

Jim Kelly went to Super Bowls with a great OL I am well aware of this.. But when jim was in his prime he could have taken the 2005 Bills OL and won 10 games. Thats what franchise "winning" QB's do.

[ddaryl]

I think both Lienhart and Young will be average serviceable QB's at there best.

Neither of them has "All the Tools"



That's a bunch of crap.

Jim Kelly went to Super Bowls with a great OL I am well aware of this.. But when jim was in his prime he could have taken the 2005 Bills OL and won 10 games. Thats what franchise "winning" QB's do.


NFW! JK, Joe Montanna, Dan Elway, Peyton Manning or Tom Brady wouldn't have won 10 games behind the Bills 2005 OL or 2004 OL for that matter, and probably any OL we've had for the last 7 + years

[LifetimeBillsFan]

For argument's sake, Pat, let's say that you are right about Losman and Nall--that they are going to be flops this year. That's still no reason for the Bills to take one of the "Big Three" QBs in this draft--all of whom have question marks about them--with their first round pick.

There are other QBs in this draft who have a lot of potential and could end up being better than all of the "Big Three"--QBs who can be taken later on in this draft. Now, don't tell me that a QB has to be very highly rated coming out of college and drafted at the top of the first round to become a very good QB in the NFL because half of the four QBs that you cite in support of your argument, Brady and Delhomme, were not top rated QBs and were drafted in the late rounds. Yes, Manning is a terrific QB who is exciting to watch and gives his team a chance to win, but what was his record as a first year starting QB? Answer: 3-13. And how many Super Bowl rings has he won? Or, even gone to? Answer: As many as Craig Nall and JP Losman....

Just look at the all-time best QBs: Yes, Marino was a first round draft pick, but how many QBs were taken before him in that round? What round was Johnny Unitas selected in? He wasn't even the first QB that the Steelers took in that draft! And, Joe Montana, perhaps the winningest QB in recent years was a third round pick.

There is no guarantee whatsoever that the Bills will be better off by drafting one of the "Big Three" QBs in this draft than they would be if they didn't take a QB or if they were to draft a QB later on in this draft. And, that's because, unless a QB can be protected and has a good supporting cast around him, there is little chance that he is going to win. In case you weren't around at the time, let me tell you about Ken O'Brien who was drafted by the Jets before Miami selected Marino in that same draft: O'Brien was that draft's Jay Cutler--he had a terrific arm, was a good leader, smart, etc.--but he played for a Jets team that had a horrible offensive line (as bad as Houston's O-line has been). Despite having a good WR in Al Toon and a very good receiving TE and a decent running back to support him on offense and "The Sack Exchange" on defense, O'Brien never won anything or set any NFL records because, after being bounced off of the Meadowlands turf more than 50 times in each of his first three seasons, O'Brien was so banged up and, ultimately, became so gun-shy that his game deteriorated as Marino's Dophins and, eventually, Jim Kelly's Bills passed the Jets by. No, O'Brien wasn't the athlete that V.Young is, but, at his worst, he was a far better passer and a lot smarter than Young. But, when they talk about that legendary QB class, you never hear anyone mention O'Brien's name anymore--because he never had an offensive line to protect him adequately or a defense that was complete enough to beat the better offensive teams in the league consistently....

If Marv Levy and Dick Jauron really don't think that the three QBs that they currently have can win games for the Bills, they can still draft a QB like K.Clemens or B.Croyle--who some scouts think are potentially more NFL ready and/or have stronger arms than Young, Leinart or Cutler--(or another prospect that they may like better than those two) later in the draft without having to risk their # 8 pick on one of the "Big Three". They can use that pick to improve their offensive or defensive line and still get a QB to develop in case Losman and Nall stink or they really are concerned that they will.

[Mr. Pink]

I think both Lienhart and Young will be average serviceable QB's at there best.

Neither of them has "All the Tools"





NFW! JK, Joe Montanna, Dan Elway, Peyton Manning or Tom Brady wouldn't have won 10 games behind the Bills 2005 OL or 2004 OL for that matter, and probably any OL we've had for the last 7 + years


That's John Elway and he took Denver teams to 10+ wins in 86, 87 and 89 with just as pathetic of an o-line and NO running back that could carry Willis' jocky strap. Unless you think Steve Sewell, Gerald Wilhite and Sammy Winder were "good."

If you have a "football-smart" QB who can analyze reads and hot routes/receivers quickly, you can still win ball games with a pathetic line. Remember the bickering Bills and a line that didn't block worth a damn for Kelly? Yeah, they still were a playoff team.

[Dr. Lecter]

People said the samething about Vick. And Aaron Brooks. And Akili Smith. Where are all their rings?

Anyway it doesn't matter if Young is the next Brady with Vick athleticism. We need other positions much more than we need QB's. We need immediate help and no QB- least of all Young- will do that.

They don't need immeidate help.

This team is re-building and will not be a contender next season.