Mel Kiper Jr's view of our and the leagues drafting....

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  • Mr. Pink
    Peterman Sucks!
    • Mar 2006
    • 35303

    Mel Kiper Jr's view of our and the leagues drafting....

    While it was a reach to take safety Donte Whitner with the eighth pick, he is a great prospect and I like him. Giving up a third-round pick to get DT John McCargo in the first round was a reach. He's a solid player but not an elite one. Cornerback Ashton Youboty lasted longer than I thought, but is a very good pick. Safety Ko Simpson and defensive tackle Kyle Williams are solid. Overall, the Bills reached on both of their first-round picks, but drafted players who will help the team.




    I agree 100% with his take on our draft. We reached for players in RD1 and probably lost picks that we could have kept and brought in more talent, but Marv and co. did draft based on players that would help us on the field. And we got extreme value picks out of Youboty and Simpson.

    If you've read any of my posts before you realize that I'm not one sippin the "koolaid" or a "homer" I've been accused of being far too negative. After a day of sitting back and thinking on this draft, player wise it's a B....I say it drags down to a C because we lost picks we coulda used to further improve this team on the field this season and seasons to come.

    Whitner, who my only problem with at this time, will have to be paid top 10 talent money, when he in fact was not a top 10 talent of this draft, is a hell of a player. He should and will start from day 1 opposite Troy Vincent. He is a heady guy who always seems to be around the ball. In the Cover 2 scheme this is exactly what you want. Excellent pick for the team, however we coulda traded down a few spots and still got him, in my opinion.

    Youboty showed basically as much skill and ability at Ohio St that Nate Clements did. Both can make the big play and then just as easily give up the big play making you want to rip your hair out. Any of you who know me, now know why I have no hir now. But seriously, this guy definitely was a late first-early second talent that we got in Rd3. It says one thing to me, Nates' days in buffalo are numbered. With the contract Woodson got from GB, we probably all knew that heading into this weekend. I was almost expecting the Bills to trade Clements for a 2 to select this guy as well.

    We legitimately got 4 starters out of this draft. Which is a definite good thing, just wish Marv and co. wouldn't have been so panicky about when Huff went off the board. They could have done the right overall thing and traded down a few spots, which everyone knows there were teams who wanted to trade up, denver for example, to pick up an extra quality player.
  • Jan Reimers
    Thank You, Terry and Kim, for Saving the Bills. Now, Work on the Sabres.
    • May 2003
    • 17353

    #2
    Re: Mel Kiper Jr's view of our and the leagues drafting....

    Youboty and Simpson were graded as late first round picks by some draft services, while at least one had Williams as a late 3rd rounder. Our first 5 guys, including Wiliams, were rated in the top 100 in many guides.

    I think we did a great job at S, DT and CB, while adding depth at LB and O line. I like our draft.
    Should have known, way back in 1960 when we drafted Richie Lucas Number 1, that this would be a long, hard ride. But who could have known it would be THIS bad?

    Comment

    • ICE74129
      Legendary Zoner
      • Feb 2005
      • 10796

      #3
      Re: Mel Kiper Jr's view of our and the leagues drafting....

      we got damn lucky on Yobo and Simpson. My problem is a lot like yours FTY, If you are drafted 8th you better make an impact NOW and it had better be a good one. I just dont' see Whitner being that player.

      Comment

      • LtFinFan66
        Registered User
        • Mar 2005
        • 47199

        #4
        Re: Mel Kiper Jr's view of our and the leagues drafting....

        Hell he gave over half the teams a C so basically he is covering himself until they perform and find out who excels and flops

        Comment

        • dannyek71
          Drink Responsibly
          • Dec 2004
          • 6945

          #5
          Re: Mel Kiper Jr's view of our and the leagues drafting....

          Originally posted by LtFinFan66
          Hell he gave over half the teams a C so basically he is covering himself until they perform and find out who excels and flops
          A "C" grade is average. That is what most teams should get logically.
          [

          Comment

          • LifetimeBillsFan
            All-Pro Zoner
            • Aug 2004
            • 4946

            #6
            Re: Mel Kiper Jr's view of our and the leagues drafting....

            On the McCargo pick I have to disagree with Mel: there was a HUGE drop off at the position after McCargo and there were teams that needed a DT that didn't get much after he was gone.

            McCargo went at # 26. The Giants needed to replace Kenderick Clancy in this draft--whether they would have taken McCargo at # 32 or not (I think they would have, but let's just say they would have waited)--they didn't pick a DT until # 124 when they had to settle for Barry Cofield. Not much of a replacement for Clancy.

            Wroten--who we all know the Bills woldn't touch--was the next DT to go after McCargo at # 68. The Jets and Bears settled for D-1AA Gocong at # 71 and Davorcek at # 73 (and the Bears are catching hell for this pick).

            Watson didn't go until # 107.

            When more than a full round--42 picks--goes by before a single team takes a DT--when some need one--and the guy that gets taken has recently been busted. And, then, another 39 picks go by before the next true DT gets taken, obviously, the GMs around the NFL--and not just the Bills--did not think very highly of the players who were left on the board after McCargo was gone. And, it's not like teams weren't interested in drafting DTs--a ton of them went in the last 3 rounds.

            Now, what determines a player's value? Is it what the GMs in the NFL think of a player in relation to the other players at that position? Or, is it where Mel Kiper thinks that a player should be taken? How about supply-and-demand?

            If the fact that teams that ended up drafting DTs decided that the DTs that were left on the board weren't worth picking until late in the draft, that ought to say something about the value that McCargo had when he was still on the board. If that isn't the definition of a "value" pick, I don't know what is.

            The Bills may have "reached" to get McCargo when they did, but would you rather have seen them get stuck with having to take lazy-butt Watson or a guy like Barry Cofield? UGH!!! Getting McCargo was the key to the Bills' draft once they decided that the liked Whitner better than Bullocks--their choice was Whitner/McCargo or Bunkley/Bullocks. After they took Whitner, they needed McCargo because the drop-off to the next DT, who they really didn't want, was so great that it was worth whatever they had to pay to get McCargo--no matter where Kiper said he was supposed to go. I guarantee you that the Giants would not have let him get to the third round!
            Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. And, thus it was that they surrendered their freedom; not with a bang, but without even a whimper.

            Comment

            • Saratoga Slim
              Registered User
              • Jul 2005
              • 4154

              #7
              Re: Mel Kiper Jr's view of our and the leagues drafting....

              Originally posted by LifetimeBillsFan
              On the McCargo pick I have to disagree with Mel: there was a HUGE drop off at the position after McCargo and there were teams that needed a DT that didn't get much after he was gone.

              McCargo went at # 26. The Giants needed to replace Kenderick Clancy in this draft--whether they would have taken McCargo at # 32 or not (I think they would have, but let's just say they would have waited)--they didn't pick a DT until # 124 when they had to settle for Barry Cofield. Not much of a replacement for Clancy.

              Wroten--who we all know the Bills woldn't touch--was the next DT to go after McCargo at # 68. The Jets and Bears settled for D-1AA Gocong at # 71 and Davorcek at # 73 (and the Bears are catching hell for this pick).

              Watson didn't go until # 107.

              When more than a full round--42 picks--goes by before a single team takes a DT--when some need one--and the guy that gets taken has recently been busted. And, then, another 39 picks go by before the next true DT gets taken, obviously, the GMs around the NFL--and not just the Bills--did not think very highly of the players who were left on the board after McCargo was gone. And, it's not like teams weren't interested in drafting DTs--a ton of them went in the last 3 rounds.

              Now, what determines a player's value? Is it what the GMs in the NFL think of a player in relation to the other players at that position? Or, is it where Mel Kiper thinks that a player should be taken? How about supply-and-demand?

              If the fact that teams that ended up drafting DTs decided that the DTs that were left on the board weren't worth picking until late in the draft, that ought to say something about the value that McCargo had when he was still on the board. If that isn't the definition of a "value" pick, I don't know what is.

              The Bills may have "reached" to get McCargo when they did, but would you rather have seen them get stuck with having to take lazy-butt Watson or a guy like Barry Cofield? UGH!!! Getting McCargo was the key to the Bills' draft once they decided that the liked Whitner better than Bullocks--their choice was Whitner/McCargo or Bunkley/Bullocks. After they took Whitner, they needed McCargo because the drop-off to the next DT, who they really didn't want, was so great that it was worth whatever they had to pay to get McCargo--no matter where Kiper said he was supposed to go. I guarantee you that the Giants would not have let him get to the third round!
              my thoughts exactly.
              Wake up, brush your teeth, and get ready for a day of hating the Dolphins. Or the Pats? How to choose?

              Comment

              • JJamezz
                 

                Administrator Emeritus
                • Jul 2002
                • 5626

                #8
                Re: Mel Kiper Jr's view of our and the leagues drafting....

                Originally posted by Saratoga Slim
                my thoughts exactly.
                Mine too. Great post LBF.

                Comment

                • LifetimeBillsFan
                  All-Pro Zoner
                  • Aug 2004
                  • 4946

                  #9
                  Re: Mel Kiper Jr's view of our and the leagues drafting....

                  Oh, BTW: Why isn't Mel coming down as hard on the Cowboys for "reaching" for Bobby Carpenter--supposed to go to the Giants or early in the second round--or for taking Fasano as he is on the Bills for the Whitner and McCargo picks?

                  You don't think he might be a little prejudiced in the way he views these picks, do you? Of course not! (sarcasm)
                  Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. And, thus it was that they surrendered their freedom; not with a bang, but without even a whimper.

                  Comment

                  • HHURRICANE
                    Registered User
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 15490

                    #10
                    Re: Mel Kiper Jr's view of our and the leagues drafting....

                    This is my issue. The McCargo issue wouldn't have existed if you had taken Bunkley at #8. Based on what happened to Simpson I think the bills than had options all the way down the board. Their first mistake was taking Whitner. End of story.

                    Comment

                    • Pride
                      Registered User
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 10191

                      #11
                      Re: Mel Kiper Jr's view of our and the leagues drafting....

                      Agreed... or even if they trade down to take Whitner in the mid to late 1st round...

                      The problem is, Levy put us under the microscope by his taking Whitner at #8.

                      Comment

                      • eyedog
                        Registered User
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 1742

                        #12
                        Re: Mel Kiper Jr's view of our and the leagues drafting....

                        Should have went Ngata, Justice, Youboty, Simpson.

                        That draft fills a lot of needs and you don't have to pay a safety #8 money.
                        Also when you have a terrible rush defense and no offensive left tackle who plays at a starting caliber, you can't take TWO safties in you first four picks.

                        Comment

                        • Mr. Cynical
                          Maybe?
                          • Oct 2003
                          • 9766

                          #13
                          Re: Mel Kiper Jr's view of our and the leagues drafting....

                          Originally posted by HHURRICANE
                          This is my issue. The McCargo issue wouldn't have existed if you had taken Bunkley at #8. Based on what happened to Simpson I think the bills than had options all the way down the board. Their first mistake was taking Whitner. End of story.
                          Yep.

                          Comment

                          • Mr. Cynical
                            Maybe?
                            • Oct 2003
                            • 9766

                            #14
                            Re: Mel Kiper Jr's view of our and the leagues drafting....

                            Originally posted by eyedog
                            Should have went Ngata, Justice, Youboty, Simpson.

                            That draft fills a lot of needs and you don't have to pay a safety #8 money.
                            Also when you have a terrible rush defense and no offensive left tackle who plays at a starting caliber, you can't take TWO safties in you first four picks.
                            Yep.

                            Comment

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