Whitner Says That He Was Not A "Reach"

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Donte Whitner addressed the question of whether the Bills "reached" by picking him at # 8 in his first press conference by saying that he was not because Baltimore had told him that, if he was still on the board, they were going to take him at # 13. He also mentioned that he had talked with St. Louis about them taking him at # 11. He said that since he would have been gone within the next six picks, he did not feel that Buffalo "reached" by picking him at # 8.
http://www.buffalobills.com/multimedia/index.jsp?FILE_300=http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/bills/demand/05billsvision/050406whitner.rm&proto=rtsp

This basically confirms what B.Billick said about the Ravens taking Whitner. Since all of the trade offers/discussions the Bills had were from teams picking after the Ravens, this means that the Bills would have, indeed, lost out on Whitner if they traded down out of the # 8 spot with any of those teams with the intention of taking him later. Whitner's mention of St.Louis as being one of the teams that had indicated that they were interested in drafting him also adds to the likelihood that Whitner would have been gone shortly after the # 8 pick if the Bills did not take him there as well, regardless of what Detroit may have done.

While there is no way of saying whether the Bills were more interested in Huff than Whitner (there have been reports that Whitner was their man all along, but who knows?), I hope this puts to rest the notion that he was that much of a "reach" or that the Bills could have accepted the trade down offers that they had and been certain that they would have gotten Whitner anyway or that the Bills panicked and grabbed Whitner without there being a realistic possibility that he would have been drafted within the next few picks in the draft.

If no one is calling the Cowboys' selection of Bobby Carpenter at # 18 (before the NY Giants probably would have taken him at # 25) a "reach", then no one should call the Bills' pick of Whitner at # 8 (before the Ravens would have taken him at # 13 or the Rams might have at # 11) a "reach" either. The Bills got the man that they wanted within six picks of when he would have been selected by another team, while the Cowboys got their man within seven picks of when he would have been taken by another team--so which team "reached" more?

[ddaryl]

But ... But ... But... Marv is senile and he is completely out of his element.

I mean just ask all of our " Resisdent Gensius's " they'll have no problem telling you how we are the embarassment of the league.

[Iehoshua]

If the Ravens wanted him, it's a good bet he's a solid D player... Just take a look at their defensive drafting history...

[LtFinFan66]

He was still a reach....if the experts say so dammit :idunno:

[LtFinFan66]

If the Ravens wanted him, it's a good bet he's a solid D player... Just take a look at their defensive drafting history...He is a Buckeye DB, they tend to be pretty good! Chris Gamble being the latest example!

[OpIv37]

of course he's gonna say he's not a reach- what's he gonna do? Go on TV and say "Yeah, I'm not nearly as good as Huff. The Bills are really going out on a limb- it's a good thing they need a safety otherwise I'd be making less money in Baltimore as the #13 pick."

[ICE74129]

But ... But ... But... Marv is senile and he is completely out of his element.

I mean just ask all of our " Resisdent Gensius's " they'll have no problem telling you how we are the embarassment of the league.
Care to explain how we aren't the most embarrassing team in the league? We have won just a few games more than the cardinals in the last 6 years, No playoffs, and had a very embarrassing offseason that made moe, larry and Curly look like Einsteins. Ralph has had 2 GM's, 3 head coaches, 4 Offensive coordinators, 4-5 different attempts at Systems, Three different Starting QB's and etc just in the last 5 years. To be honest this org has been nothing but a Cluster FK for years now. It is what it is... a running joke. That is unless Marv and DJ can fix it.

Until this team actually does something on the field and starts winning, we have earned that title.

And I would like a link to Ozzie Newsome saying they were going to take Whitner. Now I have read 'they liked him' and 'they were considering him'. But I doubt they were going to take him with DT being that teams biggest need after losing all they did this offseason and Ray Lewis having his fits in the press and directly pointing to DT as the #1 reason why.

Fans are 'reaching' to defend good ol marv's picks. IF they turn out well on the field then the picks have been defended.

[ICE74129]

of course he's gonna say he's not a reach- what's he gonna do? Go on TV and say "Yeah, I'm not nearly as good as Huff. The Bills are really going out on a limb- it's a good thing they need a safety otherwise I'd be making less money in Baltimore as the #13 pick."

And what do fans expect Marv, Modrak and DJ to say? 'Man I got scared and really reached for that pick. Wish I could go back and do it over again since other teams BS'ed me into thinking they were going to pick my guy'. 'Gollie Gee...hehehe, I guess this ones on me guys'.

I have yet to see any GM say 'Man I really jumped the gun and fugged up that pick'. Have any of you? Every GM says they feel good about every pick they make. That is just the name of the game. Hell I bet the chargers felt great about Ryan Leaf too. Hell I bet they can still sit there and try to defend the pick!

Lets see how the picks play out on the field. If whitner can't crack the starting lineup and be an impact like Williams and Reed were, then fans are going to let Marv hear about it. You dont' take a safety that high PERIOD unless he is going to be an impact player damn near immediately. Now if he is, Great for us. I am more than happy to be wrong IF the Bills make out well with the kid.

[ryjam282]

Damn, imagine him and Ed Reed back there. That is a scary secondary.

[SquishDaFish]

Ice ddaryl was being sarcastic and talking about our 4 negative monkeys on this board. And OP all whitner was saying was what balt told him he wasnt saying hes better then huff or not. Just explaining that Buffalo didnt reach because he knows one of two teams were going to select him soon seeing one told him that. I think he would know more then you if he was going to be selected in the 13th spot which means Buffalo wouldnt of gotten their guy.

GOOD JOB MARV!!

[OpIv37]

Ice ddaryl was being sarcastic and talking about our 4 negative monkeys on this board. And OP all whitner was saying was what balt told him he wasnt saying hes better then huff or not. Just explaining that Buffalo didnt reach because he knows one of two teams were going to select him soon seeing one told him that. I think he would know more then you if he was going to be selected in the 13th spot which means Buffalo wouldnt of gotten their guy.

GOOD JOB MARV!!


I wasn't commenting on the pick- all I'm saying is that the guy isn't going to bash himself to the media. Whenever players or coaches say stuff like that on the record, you have to take it for what it's worth. They're not going to say anything bad about themselves, their team or their choices publicly.

Public relations is a game and these guys are trained to play it well.

[Mr B]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddaryl
But ... But ... But... Marv is senile and he is completely out of his element.

I mean just ask all of our " Resisdent Gensius's " they'll have no problem telling you how we are the embarassment of the league.


Care to explain how we aren't the most embarrassing team in the league? We have won just a few games more than the cardinals in the last 6 years, No playoffs, and had a very embarrassing offseason that made moe, larry and Curly look like Einsteins. Ralph has had 2 GM's, 3 head coaches, 4 Offensive coordinators, 4-5 different attempts at Systems, Three different Starting QB's and etc just in the last 5 years. To be honest this org has been nothing but a Cluster FK for years now. It is what it is... a running joke. That is unless Marv and DJ can fix it.

Until this team actually does something on the field and starts winning, we have earned that title.

And I would like a link to Ozzie Newsome saying they were going to take Whitner. Now I have read 'they liked him' and 'they were considering him'. But I doubt they were going to take him with DT being that teams biggest need after losing all they did this offseason and Ray Lewis having his fits in the press and directly pointing to DT as the #1 reason why.

Fans are 'reaching' to defend good ol marv's picks. IF they turn out well on the field then the picks have been defended.

I think he was referring to how some people think the Bills front office is the embarrasment of the league because of their age. Because ESPN said so.

[OpIv37]

And just for the record- 13 comes after 8, meaning a reach at 8 is not necessarily a reach at 13. No one thought Michael Huff was a reach at 7, but if the Saints had picked him at 2 with Reggie Bush, Young, Davis and Hawk still on the board, it would have been a different story.

[SquishDaFish]

Point is OP if they would of traded down where they were talking and #13 took him like they said they would we would of missed out on the player they wanted.

[OpIv37]

Point is OP if they would of traded down where they were talking and #13 took him like they said they would we would of missed out on the player they wanted.

9, 10, 11, 12

and how did he KNOW the Ravens would take him- what if Cutler or Leinart were still on the board? They may have wanted someone else more and it depends who falls.

[ICE74129]

Ice ddaryl was being sarcastic and talking about our 4 negative monkeys on this board. And OP all whitner was saying was what balt told him he wasnt saying hes better then huff or not. Just explaining that Buffalo didnt reach because he knows one of two teams were going to select him soon seeing one told him that. I think he would know more then you if he was going to be selected in the 13th spot which means Buffalo wouldnt of gotten their guy.

GOOD JOB MARV!!

I'm sorry, explain to me how the kid 'knew' he was going to be taken by the ravens? I have Joey Porter plastered all over NFLN the week before the draft talking about how dallas was on the phone, shipped him Dallas gear, told him to get it on because they were taking him...then passed. I bet 10 teams told Whitner they were going to take him. so what?

What is the kid going to say? Jesus folks.

[ICE74129]

9, 10, 11, 12

and how did he KNOW the Ravens would take him- what if Cutler or Leinart were still on the board? They may have wanted someone else more and it depends who falls.

Bottom line the Ravens were NEVER going to take him. They needed DL and got it.

[ICE74129]

And let me end this entire argument now. Reggie Bush KNEW he was going to the texans didn't he?

[SquishDaFish]

Ice you know it all I forgot.

[ICE74129]

Ice you know it all I forgot.

Its not about knowing it all, its fact. NO player knows unless he has signed as the #1 pick the night before.

Leinart KNEW he was a top 5 pick didn't he? I am sure the Jets, Titans etc all told him 'you're our guy'. Its all CRAP.

here is what I KNOW....Ray Lewis is the best damn ILB in the game STILL to this day. they know he is pissed because they lost a great DT to Carolina and I think a 2nd one as well? they have nothing up front. Not only from a pure football 101 standpoint, but to keep the best LB in the game happy, they had to go DT and did so.

All Whitner is doing is defending where he was drafted. What he should do is STFU ( what a concept) and say 'Hey, I can't help where I was drafted. I am happy to be a Buffalo Bill and will let my play deterimine if I was a good pick or not'. but already he is firing off 'I know I would have been picked here, or there if not picked by the Bills'.

Yeah Justice was supposed to be picked in the first right? Bunkley or Ngata in the top 8-10 I can go on but if you dont' get it, there is nothing I can say to change that.

[Tatonka]

good old ice.. back on the "bills hater" bandwagon after singing the praises of the bills all offseason..

come on man.. make up your mind.. you change your opinion every week.. i dont get it.

[HHURRICANE]

of course he's gonna say he's not a reach- what's he gonna do? Go on TV and say "Yeah, I'm not nearly as good as Huff. The Bills are really going out on a limb- it's a good thing they need a safety otherwise I'd be making less money in Baltimore as the #13 pick."

Your exactly right but don't expect anybody to understand it.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

ICE, B.Billick admitted in his PC the other day that the Ravens were going to take Whitner and Whitner said the Ravens told him that they were going to take him. What more evidence do you want that there was at least enough of a chance that they could have taken him that the Bills had reason to believe that there was a risk that they would have lost out on him if they traded down? Where there's smoke, there's usually fire. (And, that's not even taking what the Rams might have done into consideration--and Whitner mentioned them, too.)

Of course there is no ABSOLUTE proof that the Ravens would have taken Whitner because you and I weren't in their war room to listen in on their discussions. But, what proof or even evidence have you offered that Billick and Whitner are flat out lying and there was no chance that they were going to take him? None! Other than your opinion, of course.

And, as for the fact that the Ravens needed and took a DT with their pick: true. But, because of the defense that they play, they might have felt that they could have taken the safety there to replace Demps and picked up a space-eating DT like Watson later on. If you look at the Ravens' D the last couple of years, they have relied on space-eating DTs that they have gotten in lower rounds of the draft to keep offensive linemen off of Ray Lewis and gone heavily for talent in their secondary.

And, there is no evidence that any of the teams between # 8 and # 12 were interested in trading up with the Bills. St. Louis traded down and out of the # 11 spot after the Bills took Whitner: whether the Bills' pick of Whitner added to the inducement of the extra picks that they got from Denver or not is unknown, but they certainly didn't seem interested in trading up to # 8. And, NOT ONE source has reported that Detroit, Arizona or Cleveland were interested in, let alone willing to, trade up to # 8, either. The Bills could not force them to trade up if they didn't want to do so.

All you have to support your argument is your opinion. On the other hand, there were reports, first reported by PFW, that the Bills were interested in trading down but received last minute information that if they did so Whitner would be gone and Billick's statement, supported by Whitner's comments, to support my contention that the Bills took Whitner at # 8 because they had reason to believe that, if they traded down, they would have lost out on Whitner. I may not have absolute proof to support my view, but the evidence that I have presented is a lot more believable than the unsupported opinion that you have presented.

[justasportsfan]

I'm sorry, explain to me how the kid 'knew' he was going to be taken by the ravens? .you're right. Edwards thought the fins were taking him. However, the ravens telling they were going to take Whitner is closest to the truth than anything you or Op can come up with.

[justasportsfan]

Bottom line the Ravens were NEVER going to take him. They needed DL and got it.
HAHA! You know more than Whitner? That's a joke.

[justasportsfan]

ICE, B.Billick admitted in his PC the other day that the Ravens were going to take Whitner and Whitner said the Ravens told him that they were going to take him. His sources are still better than Billick :crazy:


ICE is just desperately attempting to save face. He was wrong. He got owned by Draffboy.

[OpIv37]

HAHA! You know more than Whitner? That's a joke.


I'm sure Ice doesn't know more than Whitner, but you can't take what Whitner (or any other player- I'm not picking on him specifically) says in these interviews at face value.

[justasportsfan]

I'm sure Ice doesn't know more than Whitner, but you can't take what Whitner (or any other player- I'm not picking on him specifically) says in these interviews at face value.
Exactly, but ICE talks like he knows what the ravens were going to do. See my Edwards reference. He thought he was going to be a fin.

[ICE74129]

ICE, B.Billick admitted in his PC the other day that the Ravens were going to take Whitner and Whitner said the Ravens told him that they were going to take him. What more evidence do you want that there was at least enough of a chance that they could have taken him that the Bills had reason to believe that there was a risk that they would have lost out on him if they traded down? Where there's smoke, there's usually fire. (And, that's not even taking what the Rams might have done into consideration--and Whitner mentioned them, too.)

Of course there is no ABSOLUTE proof that the Ravens would have taken Whitner because you and I weren't in their war room to listen in on their discussions. But, what proof or even evidence have you offered that Billick and Whitner are flat out lying and there was no chance that they were going to take him? None! Other than your opinion, of course.

And, as for the fact that the Ravens needed and took a DT with their pick: true. But, because of the defense that they play, they might have felt that they could have taken the safety there to replace Demps and picked up a space-eating DT like Watson later on. If you look at the Ravens' D the last couple of years, they have relied on space-eating DTs that they have gotten in lower rounds of the draft to keep offensive linemen off of Ray Lewis and gone heavily for talent in their secondary.

And, there is no evidence that any of the teams between # 8 and # 12 were interested in trading up with the Bills. St. Louis traded down and out of the # 11 spot after the Bills took Whitner: whether the Bills' pick of Whitner added to the inducement of the extra picks that they got from Denver or not is unknown, but they certainly didn't seem interested in trading up to # 8. And, NOT ONE source has reported that Detroit, Arizona or Cleveland were interested in, let alone willing to, trade up to # 8, either. The Bills could not force them to trade up if they didn't want to do so.

All you have to support your argument is your opinion. On the other hand, there were reports, first reported by PFW, that the Bills were interested in trading down but received last minute information that if they did so Whitner would be gone and Billick's statement, supported by Whitner's comments, to support my contention that the Bills took Whitner at # 8 because they had reason to believe that, if they traded down, they would have lost out on Whitner. I may not have absolute proof to support my view, but the evidence that I have presented is a lot more believable than the unsupported opinion that you have presented.

Show me a link with a direct quote saying they were definately going to take Whitner. From what I have read they said they were interested in him.

I have not provided any more opinion than you have. I read the same reports etc that you have on various message boards etc. Here is another fact, Lewis would have blown the hell up had they passed on a DT. I watched him on NFLN rip the fact they had no DT's and he wanted them to get some so 'I can do my job'.

Again find me a link where he directly says 'We were taking whitner' and I will retract my statement. You won't find one.

What I have provided is proof that teams lie. They also change their minds very quickly. I showed where if you had watched NFLN Joey porter said dallas sent him stuff to wear on draft day, had him on the phone not a pick or two before they picked to say again he was their man. Talked to his agent etc. They passed on him. I am sure the Jets, titans etc all talked to Leinart and said he was their guy too.

its all pure crap until you are drafted.

[ICE74129]

Exactly, but ICE talks like he knows what the ravens were going to do. See my Edwards reference. He thought he was going to be a fin.

I can tell you I know for FACT ALL teams are full of crap. the Texans were going to take bush remember? ALL of them are full of it. No team outside of maybe #1 and #2 say 'I am taking this guy regardless'. They dont' know what trades will be offered, who might be on the board they didnt' think would be etc.

I am sure they told him he would be picked. I am sure he believed it. I am also sure they told Bunkley, Ngata and who knows who else the same thing.

[ICE74129]

Here is the bottom line and absolute fact....If whitner wasn't a reach or doesn't feel he was a reach....Prove it. if he is an immediate impact like Roy williams, and Ed Reed then he wasn't.

he struggles all year and ends up having question marks Ie he might be a 'good' safety, then he was one.

You don't draft safetys that high unless they are going to be an impact guy. I for one am going to give the guy a fair shake and hope to God Marv and Co were right.

[justasportsfan]

I can tell you I know for FACT ALL teams are full of crap. the Texans were going to take bush remember? ALL of them are full of it. No team outside of maybe #1 and #2 say 'I am taking this guy regardless'. They dont' know what trades will be offered, who might be on the board they didnt' think would be etc.

I am sure they told him he would be picked. I am sure he believed it. I am also sure they told Bunkley, Ngata and who knows who else the same thing.


ICE read my post on the fins taking Edwards. You are preaching to the choir. While the ravens taking Whitner is neither here nor there, you yourself cannot disprove Whitner either. So don't go acting like you know for fact they weren't going to take him either.

FACT IS , there were teams interested in Whitner. Whether Marv was right in not taking that risk,time will tell . Your weren't on the board room. You never got a call from the ravens. So I'll take Whitner's word over yours and I'll take Marv's decision over yours any day.

While you CLAIM that you are a OL coach/OC or whatever, are you gonna add GM/draft scout to your resume' now?

[SquishDaFish]

Awesome Post Justa! Exactly well put.

[Bulldog]

Bottom line the Ravens were NEVER going to take him. They needed DL and got it.

Man, you really do know everything. You should really be a GM in this league. Or, maybe you should go work for ESPN, since they know more about the draft than Marv does.

[dplus47]

I can tell you I know for FACT ALL teams are full of crap. the Texans were going to take bush remember? ALL of them are full of it.

while i agree with your "full of crap" comment, i gotta say this: the texans said they were seriously considering williams, and everyone thought that was crap. i don't remember it being "all about bush."

[Michael82]

Its not about knowing it all, its fact. NO player knows unless he has signed as the #1 pick the night before.

Leinart KNEW he was a top 5 pick didn't he? I am sure the Jets, Titans etc all told him 'you're our guy'. Its all CRAP.

here is what I KNOW....Ray Lewis is the best damn ILB in the game STILL to this day. they know he is pissed because they lost a great DT to Carolina and I think a 2nd one as well? they have nothing up front. Not only from a pure football 101 standpoint, but to keep the best LB in the game happy, they had to go DT and did so.

All Whitner is doing is defending where he was drafted. What he should do is STFU ( what a concept) and say 'Hey, I can't help where I was drafted. I am happy to be a Buffalo Bill and will let my play deterimine if I was a good pick or not'. but already he is firing off 'I know I would have been picked here, or there if not picked by the Bills'.

Yeah Justice was supposed to be picked in the first right? Bunkley or Ngata in the top 8-10 I can go on but if you dont' get it, there is nothing I can say to change that.
Ray Lewis is overrated and is not the same guy anymore. He's close to being done. :::