Objectivity, hopes and aspirations.

[Mr. Pink]

You know, why is it that anyone who says something positively about this team is right, but anyone who is negative is wrong? We need to look at this more objectively and realize that this team this year isn't going to be very good.
-A lot of new players learning a whole new system.
-A QB who may actually be allowed to learn and progress on the job this year. Novel concept there.
-A revamped O-line, for better or worse, that will take time to gel as a cohesive unit.
-A mercenary playing corner who is gonna try to make all the picks he can in order to up his dollars in the free agent market. Because lets face it, as a corner more picks=more money.
-Rookies getting on the job training.
-No solid for sure number 2 receiver at this time, which means Evans will have fits all year until someone can emerge.

Reasons for optimism.
-A lot of dead weight has been purged from this team. Some is addition by subtraction.
-A ton of speed at wide out, if we can have a QB who can get the ball to them.
-If Clements plays up to par, a secondary that is in the top 1/3 of the league.
-The best damn special teams in the NFL.
-If the o-line gels quickly, Willis might get to prove "he's the best back in the NFL."

The problem is there are far too many ifs' with this team. We're not looking at a team that can get a bounce here and there and sneak into the playoffs. A bounce here and there might be the difference between 4 and 5 wins realistically.

This is a few years process, it's not gonna turn around overnight. So based on your perspective of things, our offseason could be good or could be bad. Doesn't necessarily mean one side is right and one side is wrong. It's not as easy as black and white.

Are we better on paper this year than last? In my estimation right now, no. But, are we taking steps to be better in 2 years from now, 3 years from now? Yes. And that is what really matters in the NFL today, not just throwing a bunch of players together for the "win now" mentality but players who can year in and year out compete.

The only thing that would have been nice is having some of those "big name" players who yes, are older, around to mentor and tutor our youngsters.

But C'est la vie. It didn't happen and I'm done worrying and complaining about it.

Thing that bugs me is, just because one person doesn't like the offseason moves and voices it doesn't mean they are wrong, an idiot or on crack. It's opinion. It doesn't mean someone who does like the offseason is also that way either. Opinion is opinion and not fact alone.

Am I hopeful that the Bills will play well this year and make the playoffs? No. What am I hopeful for is that the Bills by week 10 start playing as a cohesive unit that shows some progress and can be a competitve team in 07. I'm sure plenty of you around here aren't going to like that idea....and honestly no one can really blame anyone, we've suffered through years and years of futility. Is that the fault of the current regime? Yes and No. Ralph is still there, Ralph made the decisions before or Okayed the decisions before. Is any of this Levy's fault directly, obviously not.

[justasportsfan]

Re: Objectivity, hopes and aspirations.

It's not that negative posters are wrong. It's that they talk like they are right. No one knows how things will pan out especially since it's a new system and new staff and yet negative posters like to whine because they know better than the new staff or don't like what they are doing.

If TD was still the GM then yes, I'd be worried after all there are facts to support his failures.

Negative posters are whining for things that have yet to be seen and their constant whining gets old.

Give the new staff a chance to do something before you all yell , "the sky is falling".

[Night Train]

Re: Objectivity, hopes and aspirations.

The wild card in this whole formula is Coaching.

People plug in roster names as if they're playing a Madden game and already have all the answers. Last I checked, this team has a new coaching staff and indeed, it will take time. But coaching plays a huge role in the formula of winning football.

Last season, we had one unit playing well... Special Teams. They may be the best in football and that's no stretch. Unfortunately we had poor to almost non-existent coaching on the Offensive and Defensive side of the ball.

I'm still having trouble identifying how much actual talent we have, since our 2005 Offensive and Defensive playcalling resembled the Twit Olympics Python sketch at times.

I don't see Jauron as any great gameday genius, much like I used to view Marv in his prime. But sharp people surround themselves with sharp asst. coaches who have a plan ( ex. Marchibroda ) and then get the hell out of the way on gameday. Jauron may have hired a couple good ones in Fairchild and Fewell but the jury is still out. At least they have a friggin' plan ! That alone is a positive.

Those who say we have bottom rung talent are just throwing darts. Without good coaching, it's anyones guess how this team will do but those who wish to see a positive in how the team is progressing is the nature of a fan. All the same, criticism is also justified when applicable.

It's easy to be hypercritical, based on past heartaches but after a while, the crying becomes tiresome and so does the credibility of those who wish to repeat the same doom and gloom story ad nauseum. When the games start in September, then we'll know.

Keep an open mind and don't set your goals for this team too high. We still have holes and probably won't see the playoffs until at least 2007.

I still like the team, so my spirit will never be trampled.

Go Bills !

[mysticsoto]

Re: Objectivity, hopes and aspirations.

It's not that negative posters are wrong. It's that they talk like they are right. No one knows how things will pan out especially since it's a new system and new staff and yet negative posters like to whine because they know better than the new staff or don't like what they are doing.

If TD was still the GM then yes, I'd be worried after all there are facts to support his failures.

Negative posters are whining for things that have yet to be seen and their constant whining gets old.

Give the new staff a chance to do something before you all yell , "the sky is falling".

Amen, brother. The whining does get old. The thing that I hate the most is if they are wrong, they just get to say, "whoops - glad I was wrong" and they are instantly absolved. If they are right, they get to say "See? I told you." - it's almost like a win-win for them. In the mean time, the rest of us have to put up with hearing their negative crap all the time...

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

Re: Objectivity, hopes and aspirations.

You know, why is it that anyone who says something positively about this team is right, but anyone who is negative is wrong? We need to look at this more objectively and realize that this team this year isn't going to be very good.
-A lot of new players learning a whole new system.
-A QB who may actually be allowed to learn and progress on the job this year. Novel concept there.
-A revamped O-line, for better or worse, that will take time to gel as a cohesive unit.
-A mercenary playing corner who is gonna try to make all the picks he can in order to up his dollars in the free agent market. Because lets face it, as a corner more picks=more money.
-Rookies getting on the job training.
-No solid for sure number 2 receiver at this time, which means Evans will have fits all year until someone can emerge.

Reasons for optimism.
-A lot of dead weight has been purged from this team. Some is addition by subtraction.
-A ton of speed at wide out, if we can have a QB who can get the ball to them.
-If Clements plays up to par, a secondary that is in the top 1/3 of the league.
-The best damn special teams in the NFL.
-If the o-line gels quickly, Willis might get to prove "he's the best back in the NFL."

The problem is there are far too many ifs' with this team. We're not looking at a team that can get a bounce here and there and sneak into the playoffs. A bounce here and there might be the difference between 4 and 5 wins realistically.

This is a few years process, it's not gonna turn around overnight. So based on your perspective of things, our offseason could be good or could be bad. Doesn't necessarily mean one side is right and one side is wrong. It's not as easy as black and white.

Are we better on paper this year than last? In my estimation right now, no. But, are we taking steps to be better in 2 years from now, 3 years from now? Yes. And that is what really matters in the NFL today, not just throwing a bunch of players together for the "win now" mentality but players who can year in and year out compete.

The only thing that would have been nice is having some of those "big name" players who yes, are older, around to mentor and tutor our youngsters.

But C'est la vie. It didn't happen and I'm done worrying and complaining about it.

Thing that bugs me is, just because one person doesn't like the offseason moves and voices it doesn't mean they are wrong, an idiot or on crack. It's opinion. It doesn't mean someone who does like the offseason is also that way either. Opinion is opinion and not fact alone.

Am I hopeful that the Bills will play well this year and make the playoffs? No. What am I hopeful for is that the Bills by week 10 start playing as a cohesive unit that shows some progress and can be a competitve team in 07. I'm sure plenty of you around here aren't going to like that idea....and honestly no one can really blame anyone, we've suffered through years and years of futility. Is that the fault of the current regime? Yes and No. Ralph is still there, Ralph made the decisions before or Okayed the decisions before. Is any of this Levy's fault directly, obviously not.

Great post, I agree with many of your points.

If there is anything I hate about these boards is that any negative opinion is met with "you are not a true Bills fan" or "oh dear the sky is falling" sarcasm.

I am passionate about the Bills, and I think about this stuff at least 3 or 4 hours a day every day. So yes, I have opinions....and sometimes negative things to say. But I am entitled to have those opinions. I don't insist that they are right, but it does seem that those who always think everything will be just fine (they have been saying that for years, and as far as I can see...no, it hasn't been just fine) need a dose of reality.

[DarbyTheDinosaur]

Re: Objectivity, hopes and aspirations.

You know, why is it that anyone who says something positively about this team is right, but anyone who is negative is wrong? We need to look at this more objectively and realize that this team this year isn't going to be very good.

Two statements that are in opposition to one another...

I must admit, as soon as I read that I moved onto the next posting.

You claim the objective view previews a negative outcome to this season, others claim an objective view previews a positive one...nobody knows. We can't predict the future.

Just enjoy the game...

[Jan Reimers]

Re: Objectivity, hopes and aspirations.

As a Bills' fan, this is a great time of the year to be positive. We signed a nice batch of free agents, rebuilt the D through the draft, and picked up some promising UDFAs. We have a new coaching staff, a HOF GM, and an owner who stood up to the entire league.

We got rid of a number of aging, and in some cases, negative players, and have several young, potentially great offensive players ready to bloom. Do we still have some holes? Certainly. But if you can't be optimistic now, when can you be?

All this being said, if the season starts and everything turns to crap, I'll admit my optimism was misplaced, and be as negative as the next guy.

[ICE74129]

Re: Objectivity, hopes and aspirations.

negative posters like to whine because they know better than the new staff or don't like what they are doing.

Fans like you said that with Butler and Wade, we were right. You guys said 'I would be worried if it were still Butler' when we got TD.

Then you guys said TD with Greg Williams and Mike Mularkey were smarter than us.

Same talk, 3rd go around. How about this...How about the Bills org get their SH@! together THEN we have faith again. We fans have been burned too many times.

I was happy with the approach to FA, not the handling of the QB position nor the lack of addressing Left tackle. Then came the draft and we reached for Whitner and traded up to get a backup/ Rotational DT instead of a starter next to Tripplet. We are still splitting time with 3QB's when Holcomb has no business starting. He is a 34 year old career loser with no arm (see Jets game).

When the Bills actually start becoming playoff contenders again maybe the blind faith comes back. As it is right now, we are all from Missouri...SHOW ME FIRST.

BTW justa, we that aren't that happy with the team right now are as right as the homers are. The difference is we have history on our side. Ralph hasn't fielded a winner in a decade. 3 GM's, 4 HC's, OC's etc. When WILL he get the team on track?

[ICE74129]

Re: Objectivity, hopes and aspirations.

Amen, brother. The whining does get old. The thing that I hate the most is if they are wrong, they just get to say, "whoops - glad I was wrong" and they are instantly absolved. If they are right, they get to say "See? I told you." - it's almost like a win-win for them. In the mean time, the rest of us have to put up with hearing their negative crap all the time...

What in the last decade has been positive for Bills fans? Nothing I can think of. We have sunk to the laughing stock of the league. The *****ing and whining will stop when the near decade full of futility stops.

[NorthCarBills]

Re: Objectivity, hopes and aspirations.

Ice: "Then came the draft and we reached for Whitner..."

I'm a long time lurker on this site, with a few posts here and there. Let me precede the following by saying I agree with Ice often quite often.

However, on one of my posts before the draft, I was called out by Ice for using the term "reach." This was in regards to a simple question I threw out asking if one of the prospects in the draft was a reach at the #8 spot. Ice, you replied and told everyone that you were sick of people using that term, plain and simple.

I just wanted to make it clear that you should not be so quick to shoot people down if you are not going to follow your own example.

Again, I'm not trying to start anything personal, and I do agree with many of your opinions when they are kept to football focused discussions.

[justasportsfan]

Re: Objectivity, hopes and aspirations.

Fans like you said that with Butler and Wade, we were right. You guys said 'I would be worried if it were still Butler' when we got TD. yeah right.


Then you guys said TD with Greg Williams and Mike Mularkey were smarter than us.?

Way off. BZ didn't even exist during Wade's time so don't go talking like you knew what my opinions were back then. It's so you to talk like you know facts when you know crap.


Don't go talking like I am an absolutely optimistic about this season because I rather wait and see with this new staff instead of whining. I have not made any playoff predictions have I?

Same talk, 3rd go around. How about this...How about the Bills org get their SH@! together THEN we have faith again. We fans have been burned too many times.

I was happy with the approach to FA, not the handling of the QB position nor the lack of addressing Left tackle. Then came the draft and we reached for Whitner and traded up to get a backup/ Rotational DT instead of a starter next to Tripplet. We are still splitting time with 3QB's when Holcomb has no business starting. He is a 34 year old career loser with no arm (see Jets game). ?

You on the other hand can't decide whether Marv get's it or not. Your opinions of him change based on whether their moves agree with your opinion. Who do you think you are? An ESPN analyst? You're not even close.

Don't go trying to shove your OC/OL coach claims down our throats either because it means nothing to us here. You're just another poster as far as we're concerend with nothing but opinions that swings both ways depending on your unqualified opinions.

When the Bills actually start becoming playoff contenders again maybe the blind faith comes back. As it is right now, we are all from Missouri...SHOW ME FIRST.?

You sound like a kid who CONSTANTLY screams/shouts and cries when you are uncertain whether you are getting a balloon or not.

You got balloons during the FA and now you're crying because you're not sure anymore?

BTW justa, we that aren't that happy with the team right now are as right as the homers are. The difference is we have history on our side. Ralph hasn't fielded a winner in a decade. 3 GM's, 4 HC's, OC's etc. When WILL he get the team on track?

You're happy , oh wait, you're not happy.
At least guys like OP are consistent. You can't make up your mind.

I'm tired of your stupid sources that know squat. Show me proof that Ralph is making the final decisions especially in the draft.

[ICE74129]

Re: Objectivity, hopes and aspirations.

Don't go trying to shove your OC/OL coach claims down our throats either because it means nothing to us here. You're just another poster as far as we're concerend with nothing but opinions that swings both ways depending on your unqualified opinions.

Hey dont' be mad I know what I am talking about. I don't care if it doesn't mean 'much to us here'. I'm not trying to be part of the kiss the ass club. I tell it how it is.

Marv did good in FA, fugged up the draft and is screwing up the QB situation. Ralph is a cheap confused moron. The sooner he is out of the picture the sooner we are better off.

[ICE74129]

Re: Objectivity, hopes and aspirations.

Ice: "Then came the draft and we reached for Whitner..."

I'm a long time lurker on this site, with a few posts here and there. Let me precede the following by saying I agree with Ice often quite often.

However, on one of my posts before the draft, I was called out by Ice for using the term "reach." This was in regards to a simple question I threw out asking if one of the prospects in the draft was a reach at the #8 spot. Ice, you replied and told everyone that you were sick of people using that term, plain and simple.

I just wanted to make it clear that you should not be so quick to shoot people down if you are not going to follow your own example.

Again, I'm not trying to start anything personal, and I do agree with many of your opinions when they are kept to football focused discussions.

I figured I would use the term since it is THE overused buzzword.

[Pinkerton Security]

Re: Objectivity, hopes and aspirations.

IMHO what this thread boils down to is the fact that there are 3 types of people on this forum...

1) People who constantly gripe about how much the bills are going to suck and what a horrible front office we have, how can they do that!!! they should all be fired!!

2) People who think the Bills can do no wrong and everything they do is going to turn out for the best.

and 3) People who DO have objectivity and see that the Bills are not going to be a great team, maybe not even a good team, yet can still have optimism about the season.


I do see the points brought up by posters that the Bills have made mistakes, are not exactly the toast of the NFL, and have a long road ahead of them.

Still, I myself am very sick of all the #1's out there, the people who are cynical and only get on here to bash every move the team makes. I cannot understand how people like that are actually Bills fans. I AM NOT saying that everyone who speaks down on the organization or players is that way, I am just saying a few people ARE like that and I basically skip over their posts.

As a Bills fan, sometimes it is tough to see the positive haha. I am well aware that everyone has a right to their own opinions, and I respect that right.

But maybe sometimes think about presenting both sides of a situation, then explain which side you support and why.

People have said that "there is no black and white" with a situation like this, as in there is no way to know what is going to happen, and that is the truth. I have no idea how the Bills are going to do, but I am guessing its not going to be nearly good enough to make the playoffs. Still, I see hope in the situation. i guess what Im saying is there is a way to both be objective, yet still have a positive outlook on things.

[justasportsfan]

Re: Objectivity, hopes and aspirations.

Hey dont' be mad I know what I am talking about. I don't care if it doesn't mean 'much to us here'. I'm not trying to be part of the kiss the ass club. I tell it how it is..

I'm not mad. Just don't think you should be talking on my behalf or assume what my opinions were back then . I was as negative as some of the people here when Robosack was the Qb FYI.

We've witnessed how TD runs a team. Why are people who think that "anything is better than TD" considered a kiss ass? I may not be one of them but it's funny how Funtimes says optimistic people label negative posters and you just did the same by calling them kiss ass? Pot calling the kettle...?

Marv did good in FA, fugged up the draft and is screwing up the QB situation. Ralph is a cheap confused moron. The sooner he is out of the picture the sooner we are better off..

Here's the problem. You say Marv did well in FA and fugged up in the draft when you don't have any facts on both but your opinion. How do you know if Fowler and Tutan Reyes will build chemistry with the other players already on the team? Answer: you don't. But even though you haven't met any of the players both FA's and draft picks, you assume you know better than our scouts, coaches and GM's. They are fallible but they have more facts on hand than you do about these players.