Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the table

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Originally Posted by Mace

He can't waive anything for signing bonus. From what I understand it's predetermined based on percentage of cap by draft slot in the first 4 rounds.

Again, this is from what I understand in looking it up.



"Vast majority" I believe is first 4 rounds.

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/22/nfl-ro...t-negotiations

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Yea, so a sign and trade isn't possible.

Thanks for the clarification!

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Originally Posted by Mace

Your books. NFL teams have them.

Would anyone reasonably refuse 15.5 million when they're getting the other 1.5 the next year anyway ?

There is no "if" whatever. It's the same GUARANTEED money by slot. It just is.

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I disagree, if I'm getting guaranteed money, then that should truly mean guaranteed no matter what.

I think the offset language is BS and I know every NFL team does it. If I'm willing to pick you at #4 and guarantee you $17 million and then you suck, well that's kinda on me for having a bad scouting department. I should be on the hook for the full $17 million even if I cut you after Year 2 and you sign three days later for $5 million dollars. That's just the nature of the risk a team takes.

The issue here is that Bosa wants either his entire bonus up front or no offset language. The Chargers want to both defer the bonus and include offset language. From 2012 to 2015 none of the players selected 2nd, 3rd, or 4th agreed to rookie deals that included either a deferment of bonus or offfsets. To suddenly ask this of Bosa because Wentz and Elliott's agents don't have the balls to stand up for their clients doesn't mean Bosa should bend.

In the end this is on the NFLPA for allowing the owners to bend them over on the rookie cap pool during the last labor negotiations.

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Originally Posted by DraftBoy

I disagree, if I'm getting guaranteed money, then that should truly mean guaranteed no matter what.

I think the offset language is BS and I know every NFL team does it. If I'm willing to pick you at #4 and guarantee you $17 million and then you suck, well that's kinda on me for having a bad scouting department. I should be on the hook for the full $17 million even if I cut you after Year 2 and you sign three days later for $5 million dollars. That's just the nature of the risk a team takes.

The issue here is that Bosa wants either his entire bonus up front or no offset language. The Chargers want to both defer the bonus and include offset language. From 2012 to 2015 none of the players selected 2nd, 3rd, or 4th agreed to rookie deals that included either a deferment of bonus or offfsets. To suddenly ask this of Bosa because Wentz and Elliott's agents don't have the balls to stand up for their clients doesn't mean Bosa should bend.

In the end this is on the NFLPA for allowing the owners to bend them over on the rookie cap pool during the last labor negotiations.

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Bosa stands to lose ~ $9 Million guaranteed if he goes to the next draft, seems like a terrible move for him regardless of what the NFLPA did in the past.

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Originally Posted by MitchMurrayDowntown

Bosa stands to lose ~ $9 Million guaranteed if he goes to the next draft, seems like a terrible move for him regardless of what the NFLPA did in the past.

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He's definitely taking a huge risk, I'm not sure I would do it.

I thought the CBA prevented stuff like this from happening? I didn't think draft picks could hold out anymore?

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Originally Posted by MitchMurrayDowntown

Bosa stands to lose ~ $9 Million guaranteed if he goes to the next draft, seems like a terrible move for him regardless of what the NFLPA did in the past.

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He also might fall to a better organization. If he goes back in the draft and ends up on the Seahawks or something, his long term prospects look much better.

I think its hard to vilify either side on this. I see both sides.

the chargers have a negotiable point with the offset language. and frankly if they don't get that relief on a #3 pick, if they cut him early, they shouldn't eat the whole cap implication if another team is willing to pick him up. they should get the minimized difference.

And I usually side with the players. these contracts are fairly easy to get out of, and the game has become so much more violent, just in 10-15 years the injuries have mounted. so yes, $1-2MM difference is impactful for a player and meaningless for an organization.

the risks exist to both sides.

I can't recall a team losing a pick as high as #3 with no compensation. if they don't sign him, and they aren't allowed to trade him and get some value of it, it 1. sets an awful precedent for players who don't want to play for an org or city and 2. they were a bad team last year that didn't get the benefit of a good player right away.

for bosa, he played well at Ohio St, but will possible run the risk of being viewed as high maintenance, and be out of football for a year. he isn't getting drafted at #3 again. so his slotting of income will fall. sure he could end up at a more stable team, but he'll be running the same injury risks at a lower guaranteed income. is that worth it to him?

considering those risks to both sides, they need to get to some mid point and settle. there is too much for them to both lose. and if it doesn't get done, shame on both of them for letting ego get in the way. this is a minor point in the grand scheme of things.

and lastly, perhaps the cap hit the chargers take isn't a big concern to sign and trade him. They have been cheap the last 5-10 years and the franchise location is in the air. perhaps having that out to say, "we can't spend because we have $17MM locked up" actually is something they'd prefer. just speculation, but it kind of makes sense to me.

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Originally Posted by trapezeus

I can't recall a team losing a pick as high as #3 with no compensation.

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Tampa Bay once used the #1 overall on Bo Jackson, who lost his college eligibility as a result and told them to GFY. He fell to the 7th in the next year.

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Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC

Tampa Bay once used the #1 overall on Bo Jackson, who lost his college eligibility as a result and told them to GFY. He fell to the 7th in the next year.

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Raiders said thank you very much, that was a different time though. Bo also knows.

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Originally Posted by DraftBoy

I disagree, if I'm getting guaranteed money, then that should truly mean guaranteed no matter what.

I think the offset language is BS and I know every NFL team does it. If I'm willing to pick you at #4 and guarantee you $17 million and then you suck, well that's kinda on me for having a bad scouting department. I should be on the hook for the full $17 million even if I cut you after Year 2 and you sign three days later for $5 million dollars. That's just the nature of the risk a team takes.

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I see what you're saying but without the offsets aren't you actually giving a player an INCENTIVE to suck? I'm normally pro player but you have to wonder a bit when a player is willing to play hardball when he's going to get paid the full guaranteed money, just not a BONUS for sucking. That isn't logical no matter what was done in the past in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC

He also might fall to a better organization. If he goes back in the draft and ends up on the Seahawks or something, his long term prospects look much better.

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That seems like a huge stretch to me, maybe that's what Bosa's agent is selling him but it strikes me as terrible advice. A wasted year is more than just the loss of money this year it's another year further from full free agency where the real big money is. If a player performs he's going to do extremely well whether he's with SD or anyone else. The only players worried about scraping every last dime off the table are either short sighted (because the rookie deals are pretty much set in stone) or they're worried they WON'T perform. In the first case it's probably the agent that's trying to make a name for himself, in the 2nd it raises red flags about the player, Aaron Maybin comes to mind.

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Originally Posted by Bill Cody

That seems like a huge stretch to me, maybe that's what Bosa's agent is selling him but it strikes me as terrible advice. A wasted year is more than just the loss of money this year it's another year further from full free agency where the real big money is. If a player performs he's going to do extremely well whether he's with SD or anyone else. The only players worried about scraping every last dime off the table are either short sighted (because the rookie deals are pretty much set in stone) or they're worried they WON'T perform. In the first case it's probably the agent that's trying to make a name for himself, in the 2nd it raises red flags about the player, Aaron Maybin comes to mind.

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That is an excellent observation.

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Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC

Tampa Bay once used the #1 overall on Bo Jackson, who lost his college eligibility as a result and told them to GFY. He fell to the 7th in the next year.

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That's also because Bo went and played baseball.

The Raiders were willing to take a risk that Bo actually wanted to play NFL football and not just baseball.

His fall in the draft had nothing to do with the fact he was off football for a year or teams thought he lost ability, it's that he may have decided F it, I don't want to play football anymore or what really happened that he would only play like 9 games a year.

So there was a lot of risk in selecting him and certainly more risk than teams wanted to invest in.

bo went seventh overall, or in the seventh round in the second draft?

The Bo Jackson story:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...final-nfl-game

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Originally Posted by trapezeus

bo went seventh overall, or in the seventh round in the second draft?

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7th round.

People forget that there still a chance the Chargers move to L.A. next year. They are strictly thinking of themselves and saving $ at the players expense, just in case.

Then again, it's not the Bills so who really cares outside of 20 threads a day Skooby...

I think with this being a bit of an unusual case, it is somewhat bills related because our DL is largely injured and without the details about the CBA, a lot of us thought, we'll should we reach out to SD and see if there is something to offer? but now we know its pretty hard to make a trade. and frankly bosa who didn't have many redflags at the draft, comes off as a huge prima donna. SD has had issues signing people for a while, but they've never gone public about the difficulties of signing someone. so this is very different and takes them to the edge of no man's land.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

That's also because Bo went and played baseball.

The Raiders were willing to take a risk that Bo actually wanted to play NFL football and not just baseball.

His fall in the draft had nothing to do with the fact he was off football for a year or teams thought he lost ability, it's that he may have decided F it, I don't want to play football anymore or what really happened that he would only play like 9 games a year.

So there was a lot of risk in selecting him and certainly more risk than teams wanted to invest in.

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Yeah, I was bringing that up as an example of a team eating a higher pick. A better example of a player sitting a year would be Mike Williams from USC, who still went top 10 after missing a year.

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Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC

Yeah, I was bringing that up as an example of a team eating a higher pick. A better example of a player sitting a year would be Mike Williams from USC, who still went top 10 after missing a year.

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Much better example.

I think Bosa would still end up being a top 10 pick if he ultimately decides to re-enter the draft next year...it'll cost him a few dollars and will get him a year further from FA though.