-
Vanek right back to his old self
I didn't watch the whole game against the Leafs, but he missed on at least 3 chances in the first period.
He missed several chances against the Islanders and went back to his old habit of taking offensive zone penalties.
As I said before, this team cannot win when the best player makes these kinds of mistakes.
In fact, the whole line has gone to sleep. Hogson is following in Vanek's footsteps in terms of missing opportunities. Pominville is gun-shy and passes rather than shoots, which is not surprising because I can't remember the last time he put a snapshot on net, let alone scored on one.
And yes, I know what some of you will say: there are plenty of others on the team more worthy of criticism, players on other teams miss opportunities and take bad penalties as well, etc, but other people making mistakes does NOT get Vanek off the hook. The point is, and always has been, that this team won't win unless Vanek is perfect. At the start of the season when Vanek was racking up points, the team was at least winning some games and in most of the losses. Since he's gotten into one of his trademark slumps, the team has become a complete pushover.
Vanek isn't consistent enough to do it himself and no one on the team is capable of stepping up.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
You've been dying to post this thread for a week or so, haven't you.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
I took a lot of **** for my stance on Vanek before.
Well look what happened....
Same **** happens all the time on this board- I say something that's correct but unpleasant. I take a lot of **** because no one wants to hear it. It turns out to be right.
All I want is for people to respond to what I say based on the merits instead of just getting pissed because its nnot what they want to hear.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
But anyway, enough about me- back on topic.
What the hell happened to the "big line?" Is it time to demote Hogson or Pominville and see what Grigs can do with more talent?
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
He still is at or near #1 for total points, so this is pre-mature.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MitchMurrayDowntown
He still is at or near #1 for total points, so this is pre-mature.
Two points in his last 7 games. Only one was even strength. Both points came in the Pitt game, which means he's gone scoreless in 6 of the last 7 games, and 7 of the last 10.
In the first 8 games, he tore it up and had 19 points, with at least 1 point in each game. In the last 10, he's had a mere six points and has been held scoreless 7 times.
What was premature was the credit I was giving Vanek. He's is same old streaky self. Flashes of brilliance interrupted by bouts of mediocrity.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OpIv37
Two points in his last 7 games. Only one was even strength. Both points came in the Pitt game, which means he's gone scoreless in 6 of the last 7 games, and 7 of the last 10.
In the first 8 games, he tore it up and had 19 points, with at least 1 point in each game. In the last 10, he's had a mere six points and has been held scoreless 7 times.
What was premature was the credit I was giving Vanek. He's is same old streaky self. Flashes of brilliance interrupted by bouts of mediocrity.
I guess we can't blame the team play for Vanek then, no way he could be dejected / out of sorts with a new coach and all.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MitchMurrayDowntown
I guess we can't blame the team play for Vanek then, no way he could be dejected / out of sorts with a new coach and all.
Once again, players are responsible for their own performance. The lack of performance by the rest of the team does doesn't get Vanek off the hook.
As far as the new coach, these guys are supposed to be professionals and be able to handle that stuff. But, even if you accept that as a legit excuse and throw out games after Ruff was fired, only the last 2 were under the new coach, which still means 8 great games followed by 8 that were average at best.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
And to be perfectly honest, I've only missed 1 2/3 games this year so I was aware that Vanek is in a slump but I didn't even realize how bad it was until I looked at the stats today.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
YardRat
You've been dying to post this thread for a week or so, haven't you.
It's a annual thread or whenever Vanek goes 3 straight games without getting a point. Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin have never in there careers gone 3 staright games without getting at least one point.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Captain Obvious
It's a annual thread or whenever Vanek goes 3 straight games without getting a point. Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin have never in there careers gone 3 staright games without getting at least one point.
Have Crosby and Malkin ever had TWO 3-game pointless streaks in a 7 game span? I highly doubt it.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Captain Obvious
It's a annual thread or whenever Vanek goes 3 straight games without getting a point. Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin have never in there careers gone 3 staright games without getting at least one point.
And your passive-aggressive unwillingness to engage me directly is getting old. You either wait until someone else engaged me and quote them with an indirect shot at me, or you quote me once then run and hide. If you object to something I say, argue it out like a real man and quit the chicken **** nonsense.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OpIv37
And your passive-aggressive unwillingness to engage me directly is getting old. You either wait until someone else engaged me and quote them with an indirect shot at me, or you quote me once then run and hide. If you object to something I say, argue it out like a real man and quit the chicken **** nonsense.
If a season's final tally was determined by a small sample, then the Sabres could be Stanley Cup Champions or close based on that. You have to take the entire season & average it out to see how they player / team did, then go into the breakdown. Right now, Vanek is near the top of the league. It's hard to argue with the current sample & if he scores 5 points in his next game, you'll look like a putz.
1 Steven Stamkos, C TB 17 12 14 26 2 12 1.53 59 20.3 0 4 5 0 0
2 Thomas Vanek, LW BUF 18 12 13 25 1 14 1.39 69 17.4 0 5 3 1 0
Sidney Crosby, C PIT 18 7 18 25 8 8 1.39 68 10.3 0 2 8 0 0
4 John Tavares, C NYI 18 12 11 23 -4 12 1.28 72 16.7 1 5 6 0 0
Patrick Kane, RW CHI 17 9 14 23 9 2 1.35 46 19.6 1 3 4 0 0
Martin St. Louis, RW TB 17 4 19 23 2 2 1.35 44 9.1 1 2 7 0 0
7 Jakub Voracek, RW PHI 20 7 15 22 -4 6 1.10 52 13.5 2 3 5 0 0
Henrik Zetterberg, C DET 18 5 17 22 1 10 1.22 61 8.2 1 2 6 1 0
9 Matt Moulson, LW NYI 18 9 12 21 -5 4 1.17 70 12.9 0 6 4 0 0
Mike Ribeiro, C WSH 17 6 15 21 0 14 1.24 23 26.1 0 5 7 0 0
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MitchMurrayDowntown
If a season's final tally was determined by a small sample, then the Sabres could be Stanley Cup Champions or close based on that. You have to take the entire season & average it out to see how they player / team did, then go into the breakdown. Right now, Vanek is near the top of the league. It's hard to argue with the current sample & if he scores 5 points in his next game, you'll look like a putz.
1 Steven Stamkos, C TB 17 12 14 26 2 12 1.53 59 20.3 0 4 5 0 0
2 Thomas Vanek, LW BUF 18 12 13 25 1 14 1.39 69 17.4 0 5 3 1 0
Sidney Crosby, C PIT 18 7 18 25 8 8 1.39 68 10.3 0 2 8 0 0
4 John Tavares, C NYI 18 12 11 23 -4 12 1.28 72 16.7 1 5 6 0 0
Patrick Kane, RW CHI 17 9 14 23 9 2 1.35 46 19.6 1 3 4 0 0
Martin St. Louis, RW TB 17 4 19 23 2 2 1.35 44 9.1 1 2 7 0 0
7 Jakub Voracek, RW PHI 20 7 15 22 -4 6 1.10 52 13.5 2 3 5 0 0
Henrik Zetterberg, C DET 18 5 17 22 1 10 1.22 61 8.2 1 2 6 1 0
9 Matt Moulson, LW NYI 18 9 12 21 -5 4 1.17 70 12.9 0 6 4 0 0
Mike Ribeiro, C WSH 17 6 15 21 0 14 1.24 23 26.1 0 5 7 0 0
Lmao. You lecture me on sample size then you use a sample size that's maybe 35% of a shortened season and less than a quarter of a full season.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OpIv37
Lmao. You lecture me on sample size then you use a sample size that's maybe 35% of a shortened season and less than a quarter of a full season.
Point was to not judge one athlete's accomplishment on a small sample while near leading the league in points, maybe it wasn't clear to you based on one man's efforts thus far.
-
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MitchMurrayDowntown
Point was to not judge one athlete's accomplishment on a small sample while near leading the league in points, maybe it wasn't clear to you based on one man's efforts thus far.
8 good games, 10 games that ranged from average to bad. That's the effort so far. It's not just good, it's good enough.
Attachment 16291
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OpIv37
8 good games, 10 games that ranged from average to bad. That's the effort so far. It's not just good, it's good enough.
Its amazing that you'll pick apart our best player & fail to point out any other person that has under played this season, it's pretty freakish hard to point a finger at Vanek to find faults this season. You're trying to hammer home a point that's literally silly, you're dead wrong in finding huge fault in Vanek's play. Get over yourself, he's a current league best point maker so far this season, find a better target because there's a near few dozen others on our team. Total dip**** argument of compete blind hate for one successful person, it's pathetic.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Vanek is no longer the pts leader either.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SkateZilla
Vanek is no longer the pts leader either.
Yeah, one point off means he's done nothing this season.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MitchMurrayDowntown
Its amazing that you'll pick apart our best player & fail to point out any other person that has under played this season, it's pretty freakish hard to point a finger at Vanek to find faults this season. You're trying to hammer home a point that's literally silly, you're dead wrong in finding huge fault in Vanek's play. Get over yourself, he's a current league best point maker so far this season, find a better target because there's a near few dozen others on our team. Total dip**** argument of compete blind hate for one successful person, it's pathetic.
Lmao.
I'm trying to hammer home the point that our best player isn't that good.
He's barely shown up over the last 7 games- a span in which the team has only won once- and you don't think it's fair that he shoulders some of the blame? Gimme a ****ing break. Stop watching league stats and start watching Sabres games.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Well, they weren't very good when he was playing good too. But I think the Sabres are 2 and 0 when he scores 5 points in a game, so he should do that more.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chernobylwraiths
Well, they weren't very good when he was playing good too. But I think the Sabres are 2 and 0 when he scores 5 points in a game, so he should do that more.
The 5 point games are testament to his streakiness.
It means that twice this season, he had more points in 1 game than he has had in the last 8 games combined.
5 points in one game is nice but 5 points spread over 3 or 4 games is more likely to lead to wins.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OpIv37
Stop watching league stats and start watching Sabres games.
I cannot bring myself to that kind of torture anymore, they've been demoted to SWAP Channel, that I'll watch when the other game I'm watching goes to commercial break.
as for the rest of your post,
I dont see any team effort, I see miller playing himself to a burn out. The rest of the team is just scrimmaging and collecting a paycheck.
Change the CBA so Players only get a Check after a Win.... betcha **** turns around QUICK.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
There definitely is a lack of effort all around, with maybe one or two exceptions.
But again, everyone else being lazy doesn't excuse Vanek.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OpIv37
There definitely is a lack of effort all around, with maybe one or two exceptions.
But again, everyone else being lazy doesn't excuse Vanek.
last i checked this was a TEAM game, and there are usually 4 others skaters on the ice with him at any given time, and it takes more than just one players effort to get scoring opportunities.... so yes everyone else being lazy does directly impact Vaneks ability to produce
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mski
last i checked this was a TEAM game, and there are usually 4 others skaters on the ice with him at any given time, and it takes more than just one players effort to get scoring opportunities.... so yes everyone else being lazy does directly impact Vaneks ability to produce
Vanek's had chances that he hasn't converted. That's on him. Vanek takes offensive zone penalties, that's on him.
And the rest of the team wasn't any less lazy when Vanek was getting points.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OpIv37
The 5 point games are testament to his streakiness.
It means that twice this season, he had more points in 1 game than he has had in the last 8 games combined.
5 points in one game is nice but 5 points spread over 3 or 4 games is more likely to lead to wins.
If he doesn't get 5 points in those two games, they are losses in all likelihood.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
This thread is hilarious. And sad.
Vanek pulled his groin 2 weeks ago and has been playing hurt. He gets so beat up during the season. If they ever appreciated the talent the guy has and gave him some complimentary talent maybe he'd be more durable since teams couldn't focus so much on him.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rbochan
This thread is hilarious. And sad.
Vanek pulled his groin 2 weeks ago and has been playing hurt. He gets so beat up during the season. If they ever appreciated the talent the guy has and gave him some complimentary talent maybe he'd be more durable since teams couldn't focus so much on him.
Oh god, this again?
Every time Vanek goes into a slump, it's the result of an injury. It can't POSSIBLY be his fault, right?
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Everyone knows Vanek is streaky. That doesn't mean he's "not that good". All it does is underline just how much the team depends on him and how little the team can depend on the other skaters. Yes, he's not Evgeni Malkin or Syd Crosby. He's pretty good though. Just not a franchise type player.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
2 points for Vanek tonight & we won, oh man it's heresy.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Those were cheap points but hopefully it will get a point streak going.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gebobs
Those were cheap points but hopefully it will get a point streak going.
All players get cheap points, just that those who ahve the puck more often get more cheap points.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MitchMurrayDowntown
2 points for Vanek tonight & we won, oh man it's heresy.
What happened to all that "premature, small sample size" stuff you said earlier in the thread?
I'm glad Vanek got back on the score sheet but he still only has 4 points (1 goal) in his last 8 games and has failed to register a point in 6 of the last 8.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PTI
All players get cheap points, just that those who ahve the puck more often get more cheap points.
Those were REALLY cheap points. In a season where 5 of the 7 wins have been ugly, last night was exceptional in that regard. Stupid penalties, cheap goals, defensive breakdowns, huge rebounds, chunks of game without a shot, etc. If not for Miller standing on his head and his three best friends, the goalposts and the crossbar, making themselves big when he wasn't, they might have lost that game by a baker's dozen.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
It was an ugly game- that's for damn sure. After they scored their first goal, they failed to establish the zone for over 4 mins, and when they finally did, they didnt get a shot on goal. I was thinking that they may be the worst team in the NHL.
And the officiating was one sided in the sense that they missed calls on TB, but every Sabres penalty was deserved and every one was stupid.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OpIv37
It was an ugly game- that's for damn sure. After they scored their first goal, they failed to establish the zone for over 4 mins, and when they finally did, they didnt get a shot on goal. I was thinking that they may be the worst team in the NHL.
And the officiating was one sided in the sense that they missed calls on TB, but every Sabres penalty was deserved and every one was stupid.
Tyler Myers looked comfortable in the penalty box, too comfortable.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OpIv37
What happened to all that "premature, small sample size" stuff you said earlier in the thread?
I'm glad Vanek got back on the score sheet but he still only has 4 points (1 goal) in his last 8 games and has failed to register a point in 6 of the last 8.
Still near the top of the league in scoring, he'd probably make the first line of every team in the league. Keep hating the guy that helps us get our only wins, it makes so much sense.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OpIv37
I was thinking that they may be the worst team in the NHL.
Could be. The Jackets look pretty crappy too. And who in the world is going to want to watch the Sabres' next game other than a few diehard masochists from Barfalo?
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MitchMurrayDowntown
Still near the top of the league in scoring, he'd probably make the first line of every team in the league. Keep hating the guy that helps us get our only wins, it makes so much sense.
He hurts as much as he helps- missing wide open nets and/or breakaways, offensive zone penalties, long cold steaks, etc. And that's one of the reasons why this team doesn't win often: the best player makes far too many mistakes.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OpIv37
He hurts as much as he helps- missing wide open nets and/or breakaways, offensive zone penalties, long cold steaks, etc. And that's one of the reasons why this team doesn't win often: the best player makes far too many mistakes.
He makes far too many plays compared to everyone else as well, that's the part you're failing to realize.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MitchMurrayDowntown
He makes far too many plays compared to everyone else as well, that's the part you're failing to realize.
Never said he didn't make plays.
The problem is that he at least partially offsets his good plays with mistakes far too often for a guy taking up $6.5 million in cap space.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OpIv37
Never said he didn't make plays.
The problem is that he at least partially offsets his good plays with mistakes far too often for a guy taking up $6.5 million in cap space.
Your criticism is misplaced. If Regier overpaid, that's not Vanek's fault. And though it might have been a huge payday at the time, the league has caught up. He's now the 8th highest paid LW.
Whatever ails the Sabres, it is NOT Vanek. When you see the Sabres blindly throw the puck along the boards or miss a pass by 10 feet, it's not Vanek. His passes are tape-to-tape. The Sabres front line issues are with Stafford, Hecht, and Gerbe. Gerbe especially. He's lost. I'll give Foligno a pass...for now.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OpIv37
Never said he didn't make plays.
The problem is that he at least partially offsets his good plays with mistakes far too often for a guy taking up $6.5 million in cap space.
You seem indifferent to the fact that he is one of the point leaders in the NHL, he's also + 3 in the plus minus ratings on a losing team.
1 Steven Stamkos TBL C 19 14 16 30 +2 12 5 0 0 0 69 20.3 21:54 24.1 47.3
2 Sidney Crosby PIT C 20 9 21 30 +9 8 2 0 0 0 76 11.8 21:38 23.0 56.7
3 Thomas Vanek BUF L 19 12 15 27 +3 14 5 1 0 0 71 16.9 19:25 23.2 71.4
4 John Tavares NYI C 20 13 12 25 -7 12 5 0 1 0 80 16.3 21:44 23.4 49.1
5 Henrik ZetterbergDET L 19 6 19 25 +3 10 3 1 2 0 62 9.7 20:50 24.4 52.4
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
I'm indifferent to the fact that he's a points leader because a) it doesn't lead to wins, b) it won't last as he is in one of his trademark slumps and c) getting points doesn't excuse mistakes like bad penalties.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gebobs
Your criticism is misplaced. If Regier overpaid, that's not Vanek's fault. And though it might have been a huge payday at the time, the league has caught up. He's now the
8th highest paid LW.
Whatever ails the Sabres, it is NOT Vanek. When you see the Sabres blindly throw the puck along the boards or miss a pass by 10 feet, it's not Vanek. His passes are tape-to-tape. The Sabres front line issues are with Stafford, Hecht, and Gerbe. Gerbe especially. He's lost. I'll give Foligno a pass...for now.
Correction: whatever ails the Sabres is NOT JUST Vanek. Some of you fail to see his mistakes just because he racked up some points early in the season and because the rest of the team is even worse.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OpIv37
I'm indifferent to the fact that he's a points leader because a) it doesn't lead to wins, b) it won't last as he is in one of his trademark slumps and c) getting points doesn't excuse mistakes like bad penalties.
His points lead to our win last night, those other 5 point games probably didn't hurt us either.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OpIv37
Correction: whatever ails the Sabres is NOT JUST Vanek.
Glad to hear that. By the way you post, one would think think it was.
Quote:
Some of you fail to see his mistakes just because he racked up some points early in the season and because the rest of the team is even worse.
No one ever said he doesn't screw up from time to time. As an old boss of mine once said, "If you don't make any mistakes, you're not trying hard enough."
It seems to me that you're going after the high-hanging fruit in your criticism of Vanek. He's arguably the best passer on the team. No question he's the best goal scorer. Right now, he's the most valuable member of the team and every GM in the league would happily snap him up, salary and all.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
I'd love to unload that contract, but without him this team goes from bad to epic disaster.
-
Re: Vanek right back to his old self
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gebobs
Glad to hear that. By the way you post, one would think think it was.
No one ever said he doesn't screw up from time to time. As an old boss of mine once said, "If you don't make any mistakes, you're not trying hard enough."
It seems to me that you're going after the high-hanging fruit in your criticism of Vanek. He's arguably the best passer on the team. No question he's the best goal scorer. Right now, he's the most valuable member of the team and every GM in the league would happily snap him up, salary and all.
It's scary obvious, no idea how you can see it any other way.