Merged Thread: NFL Bans Drop Hip Tackles

Hip-drop tackles are much more dangerous than other tackles, according to the NFL executive in charge of health and safety issues.

NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Miller said today that the injury rate on hip-drop tackles is about 20 to 25 times greater than on other tackles. Miller also said defensive players are using hip-drop tackles more than ever before.

Given those concerns, Miller said “it’s certainly my hope” that the NFL will ban hip drops this off-season, according to Judy Battista of NFL Media.

Still, there are real concerns about whether hip-drop tackles can be defined adequately to create a rule that the players understand and the officials call consistently. A hip-drop tackle could loosely be defined as when a tackler grabs a ball carrier and drops his body weight directly onto the ball carrier’s legs or back, but the precise language of the rule will be important.


NFL says injury rate on hip-drop tackles is 20-25 times that of other tackles - NBC Sports

Is now a 15 yarder.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ling-technique

This one although needed to be implemented imo is also going to be controversial as subjectivity is going to play a big part in many cases.

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Originally Posted by Mad Max

Is now a 15 yarder.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ling-technique

This one although needed to be implemented imo is also going to be controversial as subjectivity is going to play a big part in many cases.

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By all means let's give the arbitrary confused officials more to influence game outcome. Maybe the league can tinker more with catch rules and mandate hiring of the visually impaired to advance the sport further....an Antarctic game for that untapped polar scientist market....shorten the field to cut down on all this running around stuff....

League is becoming an absolute circus.

More power in the hands of refs to decide outcomes of games.

This is football.

Pretty soon players will have colored areas on their uniforms where you're only allowed to hit them, yet runners can stiff arm a defender right in head and have no consequences.

This is a joke

This is a good move. Players are there for our entertainment but they are not gladiators waiting for the lions. This will help reduce injuries.

The other change that may be coming is on kickoffs. Could be going to the XFL method which would be cool. Kickoffs now are basically all touchbacks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNkpLQtcIH4

https://www.wwe.com/f/styles/gallery...7/14808666.jpg

Yep, competition committee has banned the "hip drop tackle", you'll love the definition which can be summed up as, "grabbing onto another player, and leaving your feet, and then landing on their legs" which is a way i might describe 90% of tackles. This is going to cause teams to lose football games. I don't see why anyone would willingly go down now, just fight through a tackle, you might get a free 15 yards just on chance some ref thinks it was a hip drop tackle. worse, games will turn on these seemingly random ref calls, where some tackles will be fine, and some illegal yet both look identical. Can you imagine trying to legally tackle Josh Allen anymore? I mean yes, this is tremendous to JA, i'm not even sure it's legal to tackle him anymore, but can you imagine a superbowl turning on some dumbass call like this?

big mistake by the league.

You’re going to see more guys than ever simply punching at the ball in lieu of trying to tackle them. Ridiculous.

The league takes action.

I don't believe those numbers. the tackles the league ALWAYS use to show as an example of a hipdrop tackle are almost never a hip drop tackle by the definition rugby gives. someone got on this because Patrick Mahomes was injured in 2022 due to a sack in the pocket. Why do I accuse the league of making up these numbers? because every time the league talks about hipdrops they drop the mahomes injury against the jaguars in the 2022 season.

that sack wasn't a hip drop tackle by any definition except the super vague new rule they just made. I guarantee that clean sack will end up being penalized now even though its not a hip drop tackle because it might have knocked a star qb out of a game once. the league was really careful about wording the new rule to be vague enough to make tackling anyone a penalty now.

I would like to add one more point. Pat McAfee was saying this a few months ago about this issue, that the injury rate to players legs on tackle plays went up when the league cracked down on head to head collisions. in short, the league didn't want you tackling high, so they started tackling low. if there is anything to blame for a high rate of leg injuries on tackles it was the unintended consequences of the helmet to helmet cte thing. Now how are they supposed to tackle anyone? they can't leave their feet, they cant land on legs. they can't body slam guys they can't hit them in the grill. at this point you'll have to wrap them up, and stop their forward momentum without leaving your feet. explain how that works when you're trying to stop Nick Chubb?

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Originally Posted by Ingtar33

I would like to add one more point. Pat McAfee was saying this a few months ago about this issue, that the injury rate to players legs on tackle plays went up when the league cracked down on head to head collisions. in short, the league didn't want you tackling high, so they started tackling low. if there is anything to blame for a high rate of leg injuries on tackles it was the unintended consequences of the helmet to helmet cte thing. Now how are they supposed to tackle anyone? they can't leave their feet, they cant land on legs. they can't body slam guys they can't hit them in the grill. at this point you'll have to wrap them up, and stop their forward momentum without leaving your feet. explain how that works when you're trying to stop Nick Chubb?

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I cringe anytime I see someone get hit low.

I feel like there was a recent poll of players that showed they'd rather have a concussion than a torn ACL.

I merged three threads together into one here.

You all complain but it has a 20X higher rate of injury and personally I'd rather not lose Josh for the season because some idiot rolls through his legs.

It's easy to see them, and it'll be no different than a horse collar.

What a bunch of "get off my lawn" old men.

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Originally Posted by Ingtar33

I would like to add one more point. Pat McAfee was saying this a few months ago about this issue, that the injury rate to players legs on tackle plays went up when the league cracked down on head to head collisions. in short, the league didn't want you tackling high, so they started tackling low. if there is anything to blame for a high rate of leg injuries on tackles it was the unintended consequences of the helmet to helmet cte thing. Now how are they supposed to tackle anyone? they can't leave their feet, they cant land on legs. they can't body slam guys they can't hit them in the grill. at this point you'll have to wrap them up, and stop their forward momentum without leaving your feet. explain how that works when you're trying to stop Nick Chubb?

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Sooooo,, you want to bring back headshots?

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Originally Posted by Canadian'eh!

You all complain but it has a 20X higher rate of injury and personally I'd rather not lose Josh for the season because some idiot rolls through his legs.

It's easy to see them, and it'll be no different than a horse collar.

What a bunch of "get off my lawn" old men.

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Sooooo,, you want to bring back headshots?

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Not sure how we are being "get off my lawn" old men. This is a purely objectionable call that is put into the hands of proven to be incompetent people. They can't even get the horse collar rule correct half of the time.

I think myself, and others, would have a much positive outlook on this rule change if it also included the implementation of full-time officials who can actually be trained year round and held accountable for incorrect calls.

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Originally Posted by DraftBoy

I think myself, and others, would have a much positive outlook on this rule change if it also included the implementation of full-time officials who can actually be trained year round and held accountable for incorrect calls.

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That’s the thing. These “discretion” rules are always implemented subjectively and bad calls will cost teams games.

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Originally Posted by OpIv37

That’s the thing. These “discretion” rules are always implemented subjectively and bad calls will cost teams games.

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And it won't be consistent from one crew to the next.

That's kind of a persistent issue as of late. Teams being disadvantaged by crew assignment shouldn't be a thing.

I'm going to post this video again. this is Geno Smith getting injured; the NFL cited this injury specifically as a Hip Drop Tackle when talking about the new rule

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cNFqUqbXKI

Notice, the giants defender has let go of geno smith before landing on him, look at the angle. tell me how he was supposed to tackle geno smith on this play?

here is another league cited example of a hip drop tackle. this time mark andrews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fa3smREgzo

look at the spot on the field this happens. tell me how is he supposed to be tackled here? YES this is actually a hip drop tackle (I'd debate the geno smith one, but this clearly was) but this is football. what is the defender supposed to be. look at the angle he has on mark andrews. the only way this doesn't become a hip drop tackle is if he risks a blow to mark andrew's head and go for a hit up high.

now look at this injury. the victim this time? Patrick Mahomes. Now to the league's credit, after passing this rule, they didn't cite mahomes injury on this play, however, I would like to point out, leading up to the banning of the hip drop tackle, this play was cited every single time as a play that needed to be banned. and i fear with the wording on the new rule, this play COULD now be flagged as a 15 yarder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLBKHbbYBXQ


Again, i'm all for player safety, but you can't convince me no1 is actually a hip drop tackle (I guess it is according to the new rules, but seriously what is the defender supposed to do there?), no.2 is a hip drop tackle, but short of letting andrews run for a TD how is that defender supposed to tackle him. please explain that in language this dumb ex-jock can understand it because i don't see how he could tackle mark andrews legally anymore, short of diving at his ankles, which might even be a penalty under the hip drop rules now. And no.3 is no hip drop tackle by any explanation i've seen though the league used it as an example of a hip drop tackle in the lead up to banning it and then worded the rule so vaguely it might actually now be a 15 yarder.

I think no.3 is the most offensive to me, because there will be teams losing games for calls like that one (if it was called a hip drop tackle)

Oddly enough the guy that injured Andrew’s injured Pollard the year before… I was taught wrap up the legs. That’s the legs that are below hips. Grabbing Andrew’s hip and hanging on while you are flung around so that full weight is on the legs doesn’t need to happen.

Wrap up the legs people

I am wondering if this changes strategies in drafting?


Meaning...

A larger receiver is harder to tackle anyway for a smaller DB.

Would the trend then be larger receivers and larger Cornerbacks to help minimize penalties for this rule?

Good Tackling defenders become a premium ECT?

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Originally Posted by Woodman

Hip-drop tackles are much more dangerous than other tackles, according to the NFL executive in charge of health and safety issues.

NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Miller said today that the injury rate on hip-drop tackles is about 20 to 25 times greater than on other tackles. Miller also said defensive players are using hip-drop tackles more than ever before.

Given those concerns, Miller said “it’s certainly my hope” that the NFL will ban hip drops this off-season, according to Judy Battista of NFL Media.

Still, there are real concerns about whether hip-drop tackles can be defined adequately to create a rule that the players understand and the officials call consistently. A hip-drop tackle could loosely be defined as when a tackler grabs a ball carrier and drops his body weight directly onto the ball carrier’s legs or back, but the precise language of the rule will be important.


NFL says injury rate on hip-drop tackles is 20-25 times that of other tackles - NBC Sports

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If this is the way the league is going, so be it.

Unfortunately, these tackles are bound to happen by accident, in the normal process of tackling.

I can remember how Bruce Smith used to grab a ballcarrier by the hips, and bring him down on top of himself.

What's a defender supposed to do....let him go?

Beane was on McAfee's show and they discussed this. Beane thinks that it's going to be something that you see guys get fined for, but probably won't get called much during the game unless it's really obvious. He said he doesn't want to see more flags and it's already hard enough for defenders, but they're going to fine players to discourage blatant violations to try and prevent more injuries.

This opens the door for more BS calls by the refs. Imagine a game saving tackle wiped out by a call like this. People will lose their minds. I think this call is too much of a grey area to be interpreted. So now you have to tackle someone without falling on them to be safe?

Can you imagine the game saving tackle wiped out by a hip drop call? Can you wipe out the IR ankle injury as well?

This will be akin to the old ruling on pornography:

There is vague definition, but the ref will know it when he sees it.

Just like every other rule this one will start a little rough and then get adjusted to by the players and the refs.

For example targeting type tackles were once pretty common weren’t they? Once it was outlawed the flags flew fast and furiously then everyone adjusted over time.

You guys are going to pay $50K+ for a PSL to watch two-hand-touch football.

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Originally Posted by jamze132

You guys are going to pay $50K+ for a PSL to watch two-hand-touch football.

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Terry’s cheap.

Gee...judgement calls will affect games. WOW, what an enlightening idea. :D:

The idea that banning the very dangerous hip drop tackle is akin to the game moving toward "two handed touch football" is ludicrous hyperbole.

There is ZERO DOUBT that drop hip tackles results in more injuries. The facts are undeniable. Of COURSE defensive players are going to whine about it. Of course offensive players (who's health and career on on the line) are going to welcome it.

All-in-all, the instances that it may be badly called, is VASTLY outweighed by the probability that it's banning will result in fewer unnecessary injuries.

It's best to wait to see exactly how the refs call it before making any solid judgements.

Right now (again, let's see how it is implemented), it's a very positive and smart thing for the NFL to adopt.

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Originally Posted by Turf

This opens the door for more BS calls by the refs. Imagine a game saving tackle wiped out by a call like this. People will lose their minds. I think this call is too much of a grey area to be interpreted. So now you have to tackle someone without falling on them to be safe?

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not hip drop tackle AND fall on them. The new rule actually allows hip drop tackles as long as you don't land on the players legs. There will be a bit of a learning curve on this for both players and refs. It's exactly like when they outlawed, correctly, the horse collar tackle. Early in the season you saw a bunch of calls on this by the refs. But by mid season there were very few. Why? Because PLAYERS STOPPED USING THE HORSE COLLAR. As they will with the hip drop. Stop the whining.

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Originally Posted by jamze132

You guys are going to pay $50K+ for a PSL to watch two-hand-touch football.

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Eventually yes. Maybe I'll be dead 1st idk. But despite the fact that the league is a cash machine I see a day of reckoning when half the former players have CTE and the mother of all class action suits gets filed.

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Originally Posted by Historian

What's a defender supposed to do....let him go?

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well yes this is the way our society seems to be going and it's being reflected in the NFL.

They might as well just start playing flag football. I would still watch. There would still be guys making amazing plays.

But cut the ****ing bull**** it is tackle football stop handicapping people from tackling.

I ultimately see this as was stated above...the NFL creating a situation where they are better positioned to decide the outcome of games than players on the field.

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Originally Posted by Bill Cody

not hip drop tackle AND fall on them. The new rule actually allows hip drop tackles as long as you don't land on the players legs. There will be a bit of a learning curve on this for both players and refs. It's exactly like when they outlawed, correctly, the horse collar tackle. Early in the season you saw a bunch of calls on this by the refs. But by mid season there were very few. Why? Because PLAYERS STOPPED USING THE HORSE COLLAR. As they will with the hip drop. Stop the whining.

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how can you tackle a guy and not land on his legs though? Situationally this is a nightmare.

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Originally Posted by notacon

ludicrous hyperbole.

ZERO DOUBT undeniable. Of COURSE . Of course
VASTLY outweighed

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Oye...

:doh:

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Originally Posted by Historian

Oye...

:doh:

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You don't agree with he facts???

Do you seriously believe that the idea that the hip drop tackle rule is a precursor "two handed touch football" and that is NOT ludicrous hyperbole.?!??!

Oy vey :rolleyes:

I really think they should go to a flag football model and let ball handlers defend their flags. That's the problem with having a contact but touch league forms of contact should not end plays.

What they really should do is do away will all of the rules and just make one simple rule:

If you are involved with a guy getting hurt you get a penalty in the game, possible fine and suspension.

Do away with holding and forward progress rules and let them run around the field more like Rugby.

Play the game with scantily clad hot chicks.

Hey....wait a minute ....

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Originally Posted by Typ0

how can you tackle a guy and not land on his legs though? Situationally this is a nightmare.

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You do get that this is where guys are getting hurt right? If a player uses the hip drop he's going to get penalized if he lands on the opponents legs. Not a nightmare.

Bill Belichick: It’s good to get rid of the hip-drop tackle, there’s no place for it

Belichick said in a discussion with Roger Goodell for the Pat McAfee Show that he supports the ban on the hip-drop tackle, which occurs when a defender wraps up a ball carrier, swivels his hips and drops onto the ball carrier’s legs.

“It’s a good thing to get rid of. There’s really no place for it. It’s just good to continue to keep the game safe for the players,” Belichick said.

Goodell said the technique has been responsible for a disproportionate number of injuries, and particularly serious injuries.

“When you see a play that is greater than 20 times the injury rate, and most of those injuries are pretty severe, they’re career ending or season ending, you’ve got to make the change,” Goodell said.