Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
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Originally Posted by
imbondz
Wait a minute, I haven't been following pre-season that much, our first team didn't score 1 TD?
Against anyone's 1st-team, that's correct.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
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Originally Posted by
Swiper
The QB position is the biggest weakness on an otherwise pretty good roster. Disagree?
Yeah, actually I do...I think the Oline is a bigger problem right now than QB.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
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Originally Posted by
Fletch
Against anyone's 1st-team, that's correct.
that's awesome!!
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
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Originally Posted by
YardRat
Yeah, actually I do...I think the Oline is a bigger problem right now than QB.
At least the OL has 2 solid starters (once Glenn get back up to playing speed.) And three high touted rookies that should get better. It's not like, we drafted Kujo in the second, so were going to force him into being a franchise OT.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
YardRat
Yeah, actually I do...I think the Oline is a bigger problem right now than QB.
Well that right there is someone who really doesn't know much.
You know the personnel. Glenn has been out most of preseason. Williams is new to the team. Henderson is a rookie. Pears is adjusting to a new position. The key is to give them time playing together so they can gel. Marrone told you he had plenty of talent that he liked. He also is an o-line guru (one of the few coaching things he can actually claim). He told you he was going to take preseason to try people at different positions so he could end up with the best five athletes across the line. They have played together in parts of two preseason games. By week 5 they should be fine.
EJ Manuel has not shown ANY progress at all. That should be concerning. Thad Lewis, Dennis Dixon and Jeff Tuel ALL regressed. Something is wrong there. With the signing of Orton, I am much less concerned.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
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Originally Posted by
YardRat
Sorry, I like some of Merk's stuff when I come across it, but if he thinks the oline or OC's haven't been a problem in the past and it's all about the QB he's way off base.
It's not the OCs or oline fault that EJ throws the ball over the receivers head, at their feet, or takes sacks when he has plenty of time to get rid of the ball.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
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Originally Posted by
TacklingDummy
It's not the OCs or oline fault that EJ throws the ball over the receivers head, at their feet, or takes sacks when he has plenty of time to get rid of the ball.
Don't forget when he runs out of bounds instead of throwing the ball away...I think Orton starts before the end of September.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Swiper
Well that right there is someone who really doesn't know much.
You know the personnel. Glenn has been out most of preseason. Williams is new to the team. Henderson is a rookie. Pears is adjusting to a new position. The key is to give them time playing together so they can gel. Marrone told you he had plenty of talent that he liked. He also is an o-line guru (one of the few coaching things he can actually claim). He told you he was going to take preseason to try people at different positions so he could end up with the best five athletes across the line. They have played together in parts of two preseason games. By week 5 they should be fine.
EJ Manuel has not shown ANY progress at all. That should be concerning. Thad Lewis, Dennis Dixon and Jeff Tuel ALL regressed. Something is wrong there. With the signing of Orton, I am much less concerned.
Well, I won't lower myself to your level and take a reciprocating shot at your football intelligence, but you've just outlined the exact scenario why ANY QB would have struggled this preseason for Buffalo. An absent LT, injuries, youth, new players and zero continuity on the offensive line. Like it or not, success starts in the trenches, and there are very few QB's in this league, if any, that could overcome and be even mildly successful with the cluster**** we have put on the field, on the line, thus far this off-season. Ironic, that you're willing to give the oline time to gel, but unwilling to give the QB the same benefit of the doubt.
EVERY SINGLE QB on the Bills roster seemingly regressed this offseason, as you actually pointed out. Do you really think that's coincidental that they all allegedly went to hell at the same time, or could it be there is an all important factor that affected all of them to various yet similar degrees? Do you really think Kyle Orton under center is going to remedy that to any level other than barely negligible? If you do, I can't help you there.
Would a better offensive line make EJ more accurate or give him the ability to read defenses better. Not necessarily, but better protection may make him more comfortable in the pocket and more able to concentrate on where and when to throw the ball instead of being distracted by defensive heat.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TacklingDummy
It's not the OCs or oline fault that EJ throws the ball over the receivers head, at their feet, or takes sacks when he has plenty of time to get rid of the ball.
EJ Manuel will never be Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Drew Brees. He doesn't have to be, if the defense plays up to expectations and they put any kind of offensive line in front of him. He's going to have bad throws. He's going to be fooled by defenses. He's going to have bad days...every QB does, even the great ones, and there isn't a poster on this board that has made the claim that EJ is going to be 'great'.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
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Originally Posted by
Mr. Pink
If EJ plays all the way to the bye week, there's no point in taking him out at that point to be honest.
2-6 into the bye and the season is already over...anything better than that and I don't see why you would yank Manuel. Unless somehow the team starts 4-0 and then goes on a 4 game losing streak where they don't score an offensive TD.
If the move to yank Manuel comes it would have to be because this team is 0-4 and they still want to salvage the season.
Im guessing like everyone else. But I suspect that if EJ stinks against the Bears, we may see Orton in week 2.
I think a old bet like Orton can run the O pretty quickly. It will take longer to get timing with the receivers than to learn a game plan. Hopefully their terminology is something close to one of his previous stops.
Im glad and surprised they got him.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
smh YardRat you clueless tool. You could have the 92-95 Dallas Cowboys Offensive line and EJ would still be dog-****.
But nevermind all that, what good was drafting one of his kind if he can't scramble/have escapability from a "shaky" line?
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imbondz
Wait a minute, I haven't been following pre-season that much, our first team didn't score 1 TD?
correct. you can count how many 1st downs they got on your fingers and toes as well... 9 quarters of football, less then 20 first downs. It was atrocious to watch.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
I think i sorta gave up on EJ and the "preseason means nothing" mantra watching him miss open wr after open wr... and i'm not talking about missing as in throwing the ball to them. i mean not even seeing them. He's looking for "college football" open. you know where the WR has no one within 5 yards of him. if he doesn't see that he won't throw it. He has zero anticipation or trust a WR will break open as well. Its horrendous.
In the last preseason game, against 2nd string scrubs there was a 3rd down play, where the defense was in a 1 deep, man coverage setup, throwing a MLB blitz at the qb, the left WR (i don't know who it was, never saw a replay) blew past the CB who guessed on a short out and completely flubbed the coverage. I mean he flew right past him, EJ wasn't even at the top of his drop back and I was screaming at the tv in exasperation "THROW IT TO HIM!" He never even looked that way. instead he rolled the other way, and threw the ball out of bounds.
what killed me about the play the most was the horrid read of the defense. It was a clear 1 deep zone, man defense look, you could tell before the snap, i mean high school kids can read that defensive look. You could tell presnap... and at the snap the way the one safety headed to the line should have made it clear even to the dimmest of lightbulbs. I would BENCH a qb on my team that missed that read. I mean seriously, the Lions did not disguise that defense at all. WORSE, he had only 1 wr going deep on the play. No one else had a 9 route. That pass should have left his hand before the WR cleared 15 yards down field. hell a good QB would have started his throwing motion by the time the WR was 8 yards down field (that was where he got a step on the CB)
I get trying to get the 11 yards for a first down in 3rd and 11. and that's where EJ went. But as a coach, i can forgive him for taking that shot down field and missing a lot easier then i can forgive the horrid read of that defense. The 11 yard out was covered. Hell the FS gave up playing centerfield and was on that side of the field before EJ even threw the ball. He never even looked off the man the whole route. The line didn't create a moving pocket, EJ rolled himself away from his open receiver. Hell when the WR popped open there wasn't any pressure at all. He had time, an open WR and a defensive look that DEMANDED he atleast LOOK that way. But he didn't. I almost turned the game off at that point (i should have)
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BillsOverDolphins
smh YardRat you clueless tool. You could have the 92-95 Dallas Cowboys Offensive line and EJ would still be dog-****.
But nevermind all that, what good was drafting one of his kind if he can't scramble/have escapability from a "shaky" line?
What exactly does that mean?
You mean like an RGIII, Randall Cunningham, Kaepernick, Cam Newton, Michael Vick kind?
Pretty racist comment, if ya ask me.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
It's too bad that we can't take a QB, even high, and let him develop without the pressure of starting.
Some can start right away, some can't.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pmoon6
What exactly does that mean?
You mean like an RGIII, Randall Cunningham, Kaepernick, Cam Newton, Michael Vick kind?
Exactly. Why else draft him or trade up to reach for him? He certainly didn't/doesn't have any other tangible skill that was worth picking him where we did.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pmoon6
It's too bad that we can't take a QB, even high, and let him develop without the pressure of starting.
Some can start right away, some can't.
Todd Collins.
(I just threw up a little in my mouth)
Rat, I'm inclined to agree with you re: the O line,but he has had time to throw, more often than not.
He has been terrible.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Historian
Todd Collins.
(I just threw up a little in my mouth)
Rat, I'm inclined to agree with you re: the O line,but he has had time to throw, more often than not.
He has been terrible.
As I said, a better performance by the oline isn't going to automatically 'fix' EJ, but it could help to have a little bit of talent and continuity in front of him.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
YardRat
Well, I won't lower myself to your level and take a reciprocating shot at your football intelligence, but you've just outlined the exact scenario why ANY QB would have struggled this preseason for Buffalo. An absent LT, injuries, youth, new players and zero continuity on the offensive line. Like it or not, success starts in the trenches, and there are very few QB's in this league, if any, that could overcome and be even mildly successful with the cluster**** we have put on the field, on the line, thus far this off-season. Ironic, that you're willing to give the oline time to gel, but unwilling to give the QB the same benefit of the doubt.
EVERY SINGLE QB on the Bills roster seemingly regressed this offseason, as you actually pointed out. Do you really think that's coincidental that they all allegedly went to hell at the same time, or could it be there is an all important factor that affected all of them to various yet similar degrees? Do you really think Kyle Orton under center is going to remedy that to any level other than barely negligible? If you do, I can't help you there.
Would a better offensive line make EJ more accurate or give him the ability to read defenses better. Not necessarily, but better protection may make him more comfortable in the pocket and more able to concentrate on where and when to throw the ball instead of being distracted by defensive heat.
Again. You should open your eyes when you look at the TV. The line struggled, but it wasn't as if Manuel's ineptitudes were because he was deluged by rushers each and every play. That notion is patently ridiculous.
Re: Merk Has been Channeling My Thoughts Re: the Orton Signing.
The notion that is ridiculous is completely dismissing the oline shuffle as a non-factor in all of the QB's play this preseason.
There's a reason why all QB's regressed. There's a reason the team had trouble scoring. There's a reason they struggled in the red zone, and there's a reason they couldn't pick up third/fourth and short yardage, and it isn't all EJ.