Is the issue with our offense, Beasely?

Say what you want about beasely, but he allowed Allen to always have a safety blanket. Not everything has to be a great throw. Beasely was always good at getting open in allens line of sight, and gave him an option to almost always get 5 yds. It feels like this offense is missing a true slot (i know i know)


This would of been Crowders role and i feel like allen needs this type of safety valve to get him in a rythmn. It feels like every pass is in traffic and 10+ yds.


One thing that john Brown could provide (if we activate him), is an outside receiver that can allow Diggs to get some slot time. I think it would benefit allen to get a quick option so hes not having to make tight window throws all the time

Beasley took the pressure off .... Josh was incredibly comfortable with him and he was always finding the open spots.

He moved the chains and kept or defense on the bench.

Like him or not he did his job.

The slot became broken along with Crowder’s leg

I thought the rb we traded the colts for could be a slot?

I thought Shakir would be a bigger part of the offense by now. Mckenzie's hands are suspect. But he is coming off his best game of the year.

Yes, the lack of a productive slot receiver is hurt our offense. It’s allowing teams to double Diggs the rest of the receivers just are producing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cali512

Say what you want about beasely, but he allowed Allen to always have a safety blanket. Not everything has to be a great throw. Beasely was always good at getting open in allens line of sight, and gave him an option to almost always get 5 yds. It feels like this offense is missing a true slot (i know i know)


This would of been Crowders role and i feel like allen needs this type of safety valve to get him in a rythmn. It feels like every pass is in traffic and 10+ yds.


One thing that john Brown could provide (if we activate him), is an outside receiver that can allow Diggs to get some slot time. I think it would benefit allen to get a quick option so hes not having to make tight window throws all the time

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Not only did Beas get screwed over by the Bills, he ended up being 100% correct.

Yes

No, we made a football choice to go in another direction for a reason. We want Allen to do a better job of putting people in a position for YAC. Beasley just wasn't that guy. He was limiting Allen and limiting the scope of the threat to the entire field every time he caught the ball. Going to have to work through this to get to a better place.

Hard to replace a savvy vet with the abilities he did have.

If winning is the goal he offered that in spades.

Did we want the faster younger model of course we did.

But did we make a decision based entirely on football ...... no we did not !!!!

Well we could target our 14M TE more than once or twice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mightysimi

Well we could target our 14M TE more than once or twice.

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But who's gonna block then?

J/K of course we need to involve him more.

Beasley? No. And it was his own decisions that soured himself with the coaching staff and GM.

Crowder injury? Yes.

Dorsey's inexperience? Yes.

Allen's injury? Yes.

Lack of a true threat out of the backfield? Yes.

The political ideology of most of the Beasley supporters is skewing the reality of the issue with the offense.

If the Chiefs can replace Hill, a top 5 receiver in the league, we should easily replace Cole friggin Beasley who isn't even playing football.

Cole Beasley

82 Rec.
112 Targets
693 yards
1 TD
37 First Downs
5 Drops
388 YBC 4.7 Ave.
305 YAC 3.7 Ave.

McKenzie

30 Rec.
45 Targets
315 Yards
4 TDs
18 First Downs
2 Drops
224 YBC 7.5 Ave.
91 YAC 3.0 ave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ParanoidAndroid

And it was his own decisions that soured himself with the coaching staff and GM.

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You make my point.

It was NOT a football decision and that's all I or anybody else is saying about his departure.

He played great football for us that's all that's being said.

His personal views are his own just like the rest of us.

We miss his skillset and that's the simple truth when you are talking about football.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TacklingDummy

Cole Beasley

82 Rec.
112 Targets
693 yards
1 TD
37 First Downs
5 Drops
388 YBC 4.7 Ave.
305 YAC 3.7 Ave.

McKenzie

30 Rec.
45 Targets
315 Yards
4 TDs
18 First Downs
2 Drops
224 YBC 7.5 Ave.
91 YAC 3.0 ave.

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Appreciate this ..... 37 friggin 1st downs damn !!!!!!! :drunks:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodman

You make my point.

It was NOT a football decision and that's all I or anybody else is saying about his departure.

He played great football for us that's all that's being said.

His personal views are his own just like the rest of us.

We miss his skillset and that's the simple truth when you are talking about football.

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No. I didn't make your point.

The only way to argue that is to not read the rest of my post.

Besides that, football is a team sport and being a teammate on and off the field matters.

Nice try, though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodman

Appreciate this ..... 37 friggin 1st downs damn !!!!!!! :drunks:

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McKenzie is on pace for around the same amount.


The Stat. I found the oddest was Beasley having a better YAC vs McKenzie.

The replacement for Beasley was Crowder… bum luck killed that idea

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ParanoidAndroid

No. I didn't make your point.

The only way to argue that is to not read the rest of my post.

Besides that, football is a team sport and being a teammate on and off the field matters.

Nice try, though.

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Looking at TacklingDummy’s stats, he sure didn’t mess with team chemistry, nice try though.

I have seen the pro-vax folks on this site showing that their political ideology has made them dislike Beasley. Before that almost everyone loved him and his play. Maybe he shouldn’t have been so vocal but there is still that 1st amendment thing.

Politics shouldn’t be the reason to keep or cut someone. If that was the cast, no club would be able to field a team in any sport!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kgun12

Looking at TacklingDummy’s stats, he sure didn’t mess with team chemistry, nice try though.

I have seen the pro-vax folks on this site showing that their political ideology has made them dislike Beasley. Before that almost everyone loved him and his play. Maybe he shouldn’t have been so vocal but there is still that 1st amendment thing.

Politics shouldn’t be the reason to keep or cut someone. If that was the cast, no club would be able to field a team in any sport!

---

Beasley has a big cap number if resigned. Through all the noise he still played hard but you cannot pay everybody

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sukie

Beasley has a big cap number if resigned. Through all the noise he still played hard but you cannot pay everybody

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I absolutely get that and agree, however I’m not sure that was the case with Cole.

The BIlls scored something like 10 fewer points this year than at the same time last year. They have a few more passing yards. than at this time last year.

If there is a difference, it is probably turnovers, esp. redzone INTs. Beasley has nothing do to with the ints, either way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TacklingDummy

McKenzie is on pace for around the same amount.


The Stat. I found the oddest was Beasley having a better YAC vs McKenzie.

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Beasely > McKenzie.

Firstly, the only ones that make this a political discussion are the ones who disagree with his decision. Most people who support beasely, just support him. They aren't facinated in him like the people who wanted players to be forces to be vaccinated.

2nd, I dont really care if mckenzies stats are better. Its about how Beasely opened things up in our offense. I dont think mckenzies stats would be much worse even if beasely played. I just think beasely would get those 5 catches, 40-50 yds, and be reliable on 3rd down. He wouldve kept allen at 60% cpt this year and helped keep the LBs inside instead of now how they shade to the sidelines now to tighten windows. We run outside in instead of inside out. When a QB drops back, he looks down the center of the defense at the safeties, which gives him an idea of coverage. Beasely would always get in his line of site so if allen didnt like how the defense was playing, he always had 5-6 yds available to him. When your looking outside post snap, your relying on your receivers to run their routes perfect and if they dont, the structure is immediately off and that's when allens running around for his life

With allens arm strength and Diggs ability to get open, allen was able to read Beasley and move to Diggs without being affected by timing.


Mckenzie still hasnt figured out leverage and how to get open fast. Most of his catches are outside the structure of the offense. So the middle of the field is never available to allen

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cali512

Firstly, the only ones that make this a political discussion are the ones who disagree with his decision. Most people who support beasely, just support him. They aren't facinated in him like the people who wanted players to be forces to be vaccinated.

2nd, I dont really care if mckenzies stats are better. Its about how Beasely opened things up in our offense. I dont think mckenzies stats would be much worse even if beasely played. I just think beasely would get those 5 catches, 40-50 yds, and be reliable on 3rd down. He wouldve kept allen at 60% cpt this year and helped keep the LBs inside instead of now how they shade to the sidelines now to tighten windows. We run outside in instead of inside out. When a QB drops back, he looks down the center of the defense at the safeties, which gives him an idea of coverage. Beasely would always get in his line of site so if allen didnt like how the defense was playing, he always had 5-6 yds available to him. When your looking outside post snap, your relying on your receivers to run their routes perfect and if they dont, the structure is immediately off and that's when allens running around for his life

With allens arm strength and Diggs ability to get open, allen was able to read Beasley and move to Diggs without being affected by timing.


Mckenzie still hasnt figured out leverage and how to get open fast. Most of his catches are outside the structure of the offense. So the middle of the field is never available to allen

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Agree 100%!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kgun12

Looking at TacklingDummy’s stats, he sure didn’t mess with team chemistry, nice try though.

I have seen the pro-vax folks on this site showing that their political ideology has made them dislike Beasley. Before that almost everyone loved him and his play. Maybe he shouldn’t have been so vocal but there is still that 1st amendment thing.

Politics shouldn’t be the reason to keep or cut someone. If that was the cast, no club would be able to field a team in any sport!

---

I didn't make this political.

This discussion, if you notice, is about whether the offensive struggles are because Beasley is gone.

I made several more points against that idea than just his controversial stance on COVID.

You can tell who is really thinking about the politics by the responses to my post. They ignore every other part of it.

One more thing. This post isnt about how we should of resigned beasely. Im saying we miss that aspect of the offense

I couldve easily said Crowder but we dont have a big enough sample size with him to make my point

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ParanoidAndroid

I didn't make this political.

This discussion, if you notice, is about whether the offensive struggles are because Beasley is gone.

I made several more points against that idea than just his controversial stance on COVID.

You can tell who is really thinking about the politics by the responses to my post. They ignore every other part of it.

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I thought I read in your post this sentence. “ The political ideology of most of the Beasley supporters is skewing the reality of the issue with the offense.”

Wasn’t that you or was I mistaken?

I think the lack of a good slot guy like Beasley was is hurting this offense. I also said that he couldn’t cone back to Buffalo because both sides burned bridges. Would I love the Beasley we had in his prime , absolutely! Just not going to happen.

As far as COVID , come on. There were many Bills that got the shot that got covid, BTW getting the shot was initially was supposed to prevent us from getting it. Anyway when players went on the covid list that got the shot, nobody here said anything. As soon as Beasley did, people were screaming that he was going to kill our chances. Really? The guy that didn’t get the shot that was supposed to protect us from getting covid were pissed because the guy that did get the shot was going to give everyone that got the preventative shot covid! That’s what happened.

Here’s the point, politics should not be part of any sports. There are people on every team that are pro or anti:
Gun
Abortion
LGBT
National Healthcare
Hunting and on and on, if political crap gets involved sports are over because you wouldn’t be able to put a team together.

The Bills blew threw the schedule until the bye, without Beasley, they struggled in games last year, with Beasley.

Love the dude as a player, but he became erratic. McBeane has built a team first culture. You don't see disruptions, team first, shut up do your job, any problems it's in house.

Beasley went outside the lines. This season, he didn't want to continue his career. Nothing "political" about it.

I personally feel his Covid stance was stupid. He was escared of a shot and entangled in debunked conspiracy. That's his right, along with the right of everyone who let Covid breed and kill people, because they were escared of vax, like no one has ever had one for one thing or another. But if he was a pro about it, I'd never have known or cared.

They did fine without him before the bye. There's something else going on. If they need dumpoff receivers, they have them to use.

Beasley doesn't even play here...how can he be the problem with our offense?

Okay... Please stop with the covid/vaccine arguments in this forum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kgun12

I thought I read in your post this sentence. “ The political ideology of most of the Beasley supporters is skewing the reality of the issue with the offense.”

Wasn’t that you or was I mistaken?

I think the lack of a good slot guy like Beasley was is hurting this offense. I also said that he couldn’t cone back to Buffalo because both sides burned bridges. Would I love the Beasley we had in his prime , absolutely! Just not going to happen.

As far as COVID , come on. There were many Bills that got the shot that got covid, BTW getting the shot was initially was supposed to prevent us from getting it. Anyway when players went on the covid list that got the shot, nobody here said anything. As soon as Beasley did, people were screaming that he was going to kill our chances. Really? The guy that didn’t get the shot that was supposed to protect us from getting covid were pissed because the guy that did get the shot was going to give everyone that got the preventative shot covid! That’s what happened.

Here’s the point, politics should not be part of any sports. There are people on every team that are pro or anti:
Gun
Abortion
LGBT
National Healthcare
Hunting and on and on, if political crap gets involved sports are over because you wouldn’t be able to put a team together.

---

Now this one s actually perfectly making my point.

Just to reinforce what some others have already said, I don't think not having Beasley is the issue, it's a combination of a slight change in philosophy (more YAC, moving Diggs around), a new OC, Josh's elbow (or whatever it is), and certainly Josh's dumbass interceptions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YardRat

Just to reinforce what some others have already said, I don't think not having Beasley is the issue, it's a combination of a slight change in philosophy (more YAC, moving Diggs around), a new OC, Josh's elbow (or whatever it is), and certainly Josh's dumbass interceptions.

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I'm still having a problem seeing Dorsey as a major issue, because they were a juggernaut early when people were doing their job and executing. He has his share of dumb playcalls (imho), but Daboll always did too last year, you just don't notice them as much when the players actually execute them for a better degree of success. I still think that's McDermott telling them to throttle up or down on the headset and not having an instinct to do either. You still can't blame Dorsey (though I'm not all in on him), for the odd performance we see in executing the plays.

This was sort of the same team with Daboll here, rising and falling with the same tendencies (dumb plays, collapsing defense). The major difference is that something is wrong with Allen besides his elbow, imho, and he's struggling to carry the show though they think he will anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mace

I'm still having a problem seeing Dorsey as a major issue, because they were a juggernaut early when people were doing their job and executing. He has his share of dumb playcalls (imho), but Daboll always did too last year, you just don't notice them as much when the players actually execute them for a better degree of success. I still think that's McDermott telling them to throttle up or down on the headset and not having an instinct to do either. You still can't blame Dorsey (though I'm not all in on him), for the odd performance we see in executing the plays.

This was sort of the same team with Daboll here, rising and falling with the same tendencies (dumb plays, collapsing defense). The major difference is that something is wrong with Allen besides his elbow, imho, and he's struggling to carry the show though they think he will anyway.

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Mace, I thought you stopped huffing bactine.

You think McD is saying “ long routes only goddamit!”

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sukie

Mace, I thought you stopped huffing bactine.

You think McD is saying “ long routes only goddamit!”

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I think he has a role in setting the pace of offense. He's the head coach. He's got a headset for a reason, you might think. He directs the gameplan and prep.

But like I said in my post, when it was working earlier in the year, and we were rolling up yards and td's on the pass routes, it was all gravy. There wasn't anything wrong with the long passing game when it was working, everyone was pretty happy with those passes.

Also, like I said, Dorsey is not the one throwing, running the routes, or catching.

Now with the long passing game struggling, have they not used the run more, or evolved a short ball control passing game ? Why, yes they did, which would be the next step.

We have not been playing stellar pass defenses. We should have been doing fine with our level of talent. We are not. It's more than Dorsey.

The only thing the Bills are missing is a healthy elbow for Josh. We don't really need Beasley, Mckenzie is adequate but I wouldn't mind OBJ coming to town

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mace

I'm still having a problem seeing Dorsey as a major issue, because they were a juggernaut early when people were doing their job and executing.

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It's very possible that Dorsey just kept the ball of success rolling from last year. I don't see his stamp on the offense and now that the scouting has caught up to him., he's got nothin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sahlensguy

It's very possible that Dorsey just kept the ball of success rolling from last year. I don't see his stamp on the offense and now that the scouting has caught up to him., he's got nothin.

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Might be true, but they wrecked people just the same early, and those were better teams with the same scouting. The offense struggles now, because passes aren't caught. The offense talent positions remain pretty healthy. They slumped as bad or worse last year without Dorsey and with Daboll. He should't need to put his stamp on the offense, they were there own stamp up until the bye. Allen is about more than an elbow, which happened later. You've seen the dropped balls when they were in the right place.

I still don't see it being exclusively Dorsey though I see an OC struggling to figure out what happened as much as any of us are, because it's peculiar.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mace

Might be true, but they wrecked people just the same early, and those were better teams with the same scouting. The offense struggles now, because passes aren't caught. The offense talent positions remain pretty healthy. They slumped as bad or worse last year without Dorsey and with Daboll. He should't need to put his stamp on the offense, they were there own stamp up until the bye. Allen is about more than an elbow, which happened later. You've seen the dropped balls when they were in the right place.

I still don't see it being exclusively Dorsey though I see an OC struggling to figure out what happened as much as any of us are, because it's peculiar.

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The lack of identity and creativity, the poor execution and decision making can all point back to a lack of leadership. Not sure that that is their problem but there does seem to be a big void there since Daboll's departure. From Doresy's outburst and the term psychopath being tossed around, to the qb telling Dorsey to use the microphone at mini camp so he can get used to hearing the calls (and not the other way around), all points to this guy not being the leader that they need at this time. The hot start can easily be the effect from last year's system combined with focused offseason the organization seemed to have.

I understand Beasley has made it very clear he's done with pro football. Whatever might be wrong with the Bills offense at the slot position, the solution going forward cannot include Beasley. Beane will have to find other options.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ParanoidAndroid

No. I didn't make your point.

The only way to argue that is to not read the rest of my post.

Besides that, football is a team sport and being a teammate on and off the field matters.

Nice try, though.

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He and Josh were on the same page with that issue.