TJ Graham had never run that option route before this past Sunday

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Originally Posted by YardRat

Losing the time outs really hurt, and were a factor (minor, but obviously in hindsight with SJ's tweets a factor nonetheless). Haven't had time to catch up on other threads yet, but does this finally cement the fact that Graham ran the wrong route?

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Never much of a doubt, still a bad read on the QB. You gotta ID the DB squatting in the middle and come off that read. Even with a proper route Im not sure he could of completed that pass.

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Originally Posted by DraftBoy

Here's the thing though...assume TJ makes the cut, McCourty is still sitting right in the middle and will break on the ball. We assume the right cut equals success but that All-22 does not support that. The best route would of been a corner route since the CB was slow to drop in what appeared to be Quarters Coverage. That would be a throw towards the bottom corner to Graham.

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Obviously the corner route isn't an option the way Gailey has it designed, and it's tough to argue with the design considering how 'money' it has been for the team in the past.

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Originally Posted by YardRat

Obviously the corner route isn't an option the way Gailey has it designed, and it's tough to argue with the design considering how 'money' it has been for the team in the past.

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Not arguing design, arguing execution. We can all agree Graham runs the wrong route, but we can't all agree Fitz has to see the DB in the middle of the field?

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Originally Posted by DraftBoy

Never much of a doubt, still a bad read on the QB. You gotta ID the DB squatting in the middle and come off that read. Even with a proper route Im not sure he could of completed that pass.

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That's why you throw it right at the DB...a lot tougher to defend when the wide receiver has inside position, between you and the ball. This pass has been completed a hundred times over Gailey's tenure, and the probability of it being successful again goes up immensely with the right route. It certainly wasn't the best pass, and the slight inaccuracy would've made it a more difficult catch than it shouldn't been, I'll grant that much.

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Originally Posted by YardRat

That's why you throw it right at the DB...a lot tougher to defend when the wide receiver has inside position, between you and the ball. This pass has been completed a hundred times over Gailey's tenure, and the probability of it being successful again goes up immensely with the right route. It certainly wasn't the best pass, and the slight inaccuracy would've made it a more difficult catch than it shouldn't been, I'll grant that much.

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The DB is going to break on release, look at the All-22 pic there is little movement the DB has to make to get to the ball where as Graham had nearly 7 yards. I know the kid is fast, but he isn't that fast. I fully believe McCourty still easily undercuts that route.

Don't think he undercuts it, but TJ doesn't have the body to shield the safety/McCourty from breaking it up. If David Nelson is running that post, and I'm Fitz, I make the same decision because Nelson can body him up/shield the defender. TJ isn't going to do that. A guy like Vincent Jackson on that route, is going to go up and pluck it, but we don't have VJ or anyone like that. Big body receiver that can go up and high point the ball in traffic.

Really don't think it's a concept/play issue, misuse/wrong personnel if you ask me.

Even if TJ undercuts the route putting him in front of McCourty, he has no chance at catching the ball. No one mentions this, they just blame TJ for running the wrong route.

McCourty JUMPED to make the interception. It's not like it was gift wrapped into his chest.

TJ is 5'11" with a 33" vertical. McCourty is 5'10" with a 36" vertical. McCourty basically caught the ball at the top of his jump...so even if TJ undercuts him placing himself maybe at the goaline or 2 yards out as some of have suggested, he doesn't get to the ball.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/rf/image_...03467584.r.jpg

Bills 3-6 for a reason.

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Originally Posted by DraftBoy

The DB is going to break on release, look at the All-22 pic there is little movement the DB has to make to get to the ball where as Graham had nearly 7 yards. I know the kid is fast, but he isn't that fast. I fully believe McCourty still easily undercuts that route.

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Compare the All-22 to the other pic where Graham is already behind the defender and the ball is being picked. If TJ had enough time to get that deep, he certainly had enough time to front the DB.

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Originally Posted by FunTimesYaY!

Even if TJ undercuts the route putting him in front of McCourty, he has no chance at catching the ball. No one mentions this, they just blame TJ for running the wrong route.

McCourty JUMPED to make the interception. It's not like it was gift wrapped into his chest.

TJ is 5'11" with a 33" vertical. McCourty is 5'10" with a 36" vertical. McCourty basically caught the ball at the top of his jump...so even if TJ undercuts him placing himself maybe at the goaline or 2 yards out as some of have suggested, he doesn't get to the ball.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/rf/image_...03467584.r.jpg

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He would have had a chance, but as I stated previously the throw would've made the catch more difficult than it should have been.

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Originally Posted by YardRat

He would have had a chance, but as I stated previously the throw would've made the catch more difficult than it should have been.

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Maybe in moon gravity he would have. McCourty is about 2-3 yards deep in the end zone when he makes the interception. McCourty was on the goal line as TJ came out of his cut. To undercut McCourty and stay in front of him, unless McCourty gives the ground anyway, that's placing TJ at the 2 yard line. And no defensive back is gonna give ground to let a WR get position in front of him in the end zone on that play with the route run by TJ. You're talking a 5 or so yard difference on where people say TJ should have been to where McCourty caught it.

With the way Fitz threw the ball, TJ has no play on the ball even if he undercuts McCourty.

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Originally Posted by imbondz

Stevie Johnson has talked multiple times already about that play, saying 'New England has go to guys - Gronk, Welker, in those situations, we do too, myself, Freddy, CJ, Chandler...'

He's saying in a nice way the coaching staff are idiots for not having a play run w/ one of them.

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It was also said by Gailey that Graham wasn't the #1 option on that play. So its not like the play was designed to go to him in the crunch...

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Originally Posted by YardRat

Compare the All-22 to the other pic where Graham is already behind the defender and the ball is being picked. If TJ had enough time to get that deep, he certainly had enough time to front the DB.

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And the DB would of had enough time to under cut that too. Both players will move, not just one.

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Originally Posted by DraftBoy

Yes but you're forgetting the obvious. The Bills did in fact commit penalties on those plays, it just should of been illegal contact or defensive holding instead of DPI.

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Not on the one that was thrown out of the end zone.

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Originally Posted by don137

I blame the coaching staff for not having the team ready. Sorry, but Graham has had the play book for how long and it's up to the coaching staff make sure they know it. If the players do not know it then don't call the play. It is very rare that you hear the excuses of running the wrong route as the reason good coached teams lose. They have their team ready.

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I'd add that Graham has been catching footballs for the better part of his young life. Getting off the ball, heading towards the middle and to the end zone is something he's familiar with. WRs run wrong routes in most games. I think Fitz forced the ball - he gets it - hero. He gets picked - goat.

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Originally Posted by gebobs

Not on the one that was thrown out of the end zone.

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So we are really *****ing conspiracy about one friggin call?