Tillman story finally coming out

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

One of the four shooters, Staff Sgt. Trevor Alders, had recently had PRK laser eye surgery. Although he could see two sets of hands “straight up,” his vision was “hazy,” he said. In the absence of “friendly identifying signals,” he assumed Tillman and an allied Afghan who also was killed were enemy.

Another, Spc. Steve Elliott, said he was “excited” by the sight of rifles, muzzle flashes and “shapes.” A third, Spc. Stephen Ashpole, said he saw two figures, and just aimed where everyone else was shooting.

Squad leader Sgt. Greg Baker had 20-20 eyesight, but claimed he had “tunnel vision.” Amid the chaos and pumping adrenaline, Baker said he hammered what he thought was the enemy but was actually the allied Afghan fighter next to Tillman who was trying to give the Americans cover: “I zoned in on him because I could see the AK-47. I focused only on him.”

All four failed to identify their targets before firing, a direct violation of the fire discipline techniques drilled into every soldier.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15635557/

[BillsKelly]

Not to get in a political debate but just another classic cover up by the Bush Administration.

[AFJoe]

This is th edumbest article in the history of military coverage. Who wrote this? The AP? I promise you it wasn't anyone who had ever been in combat, let alone an ambush. Laser eye surgery measn nothing. Pilots get it all the time, it helps them. I have 20/15 vision and I have had tunnel vision in combat. You don't always identify shooters while being ambushed, you just shoot anything outside your box. I could list on here all the reasons that artilce is ridiculous and wrong, but I'm sure you don't want to hear it. I could also tell you all the mistakes Pat made on that day, but that would be almost as unfair as blamin gth eother Rangers for his death.

The Special Operations Community hs become pretty sick of the Tillman story. This kind of thing happens all the time in STS, SOF, NSW and so on. Why is it so important that it is Tillman? I thought he wanted to be lik everyone else? Hos brother Kevin, was even turned down by a differnt Ranger battalion because they didn't want him because of all his comments.

It is sad Pat died, but criminal investigating other Rangers is ridiculous, especially whenm Pat made so many mistakes. This is not a cover up, this is what happens in SOF, jsut became news after the Tillman family used their celebrity status to push it. As a NCO I have seen the military tell families their loved one died saving the day, just to be comforting. Even though the member died because he messed up. Is that what they should have done?

Stop all this crap, it's stupid. As a former member of a STS (Special Tactics Squadron), who served from Kosovo, to Southern No Fly Zone in Iraq both under Clinton, and then Afghanistan and back to Iraq under Bush along with numerous other missions, these things happen no matter what. Just because you hate the current President doesn't mean he had anything to do with this.

If we want to debate war and what went wrong that day, just let me know. This garbage and theories have to stop. If shooting at targets while being ambushed in a war zone without identifying them first is a crime, then every person who has ever been outnumbered in an ambush would be in jail. War isn't as simple as TV and the movies make it. Crap happens all the time. Get over it, ot join SOF, STS or NSW and see for yourself.

[Cntrygal]

Threads that end up "politically slanted" will end up in the SPIN ZONE.

After saying that.... I find it highly suspect that someone was in combat with recent PRK (still fuzzy vision) surgery. We are taken off of deployment status while in "recovery" until released by eye doctor.

[AFJoe]

It happens all the time in Speical OPs...I returned to a forward zone the day after removing my cast of my foot aftr a broken bone....SOF is just different, the numbers are low, and are always needed. It doesn't matter anyway, but since you asked....

He was standing between a shooter and the sun, a mistake an operator should never make, especially in an ambush....and he was at the same level as the ambushers, but not returning fire onto the ambushers, just taking a forward control position without a radio...HUGE MISTAKES!!!

It happens, but don't blanme the shooter...

[YardRat]

I've never been in that type of situation, so I'll reserve comment.

I do appreciate the insight from AFJ and C-gal, though.

[PECKERWOOD]

This information isn't new. We already knew that Tillman's death was an accident.. With that said, Tillman was a patriot who served his country. It's really heartening to me, that there are still people out there that will follow their heart instead of the paycheck. Thanks for protecting our Country Tillman.

[AFJoe]

I couldn't agree with you more. I was still in the service when Pat died, and my unit, along with myself were totally devastated. I have no problem with Pat. I, along with many other people in the same line of work as Pat, have become very disenchanted with his family and their lawyers and they way they are treating this. Some poor 20 year-old Ranger is being criminally investigated because of them...hope they are proud. Most of the guys that I was in STS with that are still in hae told me the Special OPs community (which is a very close-knit group) have become very angered by the media attention and accusations. I myself feel the same way they do. It is sad, it happens, but all this crap must stop.

[Night Train]

When news breaks that all this talk and finger pointing can bring him back to life, let me know.

[alohabillsfan]

Pat Tillman, and all the men and women serving or have served in combat are heros period! Leave these soldiers alone! GOD Bless America!

[Jan Reimers]

The timing of this "report" had nothing to do with Rumsfeld's resignation or a coverup by the Bush Administration. I know that some of you youngsters want to blame Bush for everything from Katrina to the myth of global warning, but it just ain't so.

As Winston Churchill once said, "If you are twenty and not a liberal, you don't have a heart. If you are forty and not a conservative, you don't have a brain."

I think the last election said a lot about the brainpower in this country.

[Statman]

Most of the guys that I was in STS with that are still in hae told me the Special OPs community (which is a very close-knit group) have become very angered by the media attention and accusations. I myself feel the same way they do. It is sad, it happens, but all this crap must stop.

Good luck. This is all reflection of expression of beyond normal discontent with Bush. These guys will be pissing on his grave in 50 years they hate him that much.

[HHURRICANE]

Not to get in a political debate but just another classic cover up by the Bush Administration.

It's Losman's fault that we are in this war!!!!

[Earthquake Enyart]

Didn't anybody see the Outside the Lines thing on Tillman a couple of Sundays ago on ESPN ( a really good show, btw)? They had a computer generated simulation of the deep, steep valley they were in. Also, at the time of day it happened, the sun was directly behind Tillman so the guy looking up at him had no chance to know whether he was friend or foe.

[Crazygoo]

Pat Tillman, and all the men and women serving or have served in combat are heros period! Leave these soldiers alone! GOD Bless America!

agreed 100%. they are over there doing a job that was asked of them. For it or against it, it is there job and thats what they are doing. They all know what could happen to them and that is the chance they take when they sign the paper to enlist. God Bless all of them over there

[Typ0]

I think this whole story is a joke. It doesn't matter how he died. He was in combat. he died. He's a hero any way you look at it. People in combat die from friendly fire all the time. It's just a function of bullets flying around and the fact that if you don't shoot you are going to be the one to die. All of this media crap is stupid.

[don137]

I couldn't agree with you more. I was still in the service when Pat died, and my unit, along with myself were totally devastated. I have no problem with Pat. I, along with many other people in the same line of work as Pat, have become very disenchanted with his family and their lawyers and they way they are treating this. Some poor 20 year-old Ranger is being criminally investigated because of them...hope they are proud. Most of the guys that I was in STS with that are still in hae told me the Special OPs community (which is a very close-knit group) have become very angered by the media attention and accusations. I myself feel the same way they do. It is sad, it happens, but all this crap must stop.

What, the liberal media wanting to give people in the military a bad name instead of being objective? I don't believe it. I am not saying I agree or disagree with everything going on overseas but the liberal media has always had an agenda of making people in the military look bad because they view it as "we are in those situations because of someone on the right" so lets make them look bad. These poor soldiers are in the line of fire everyday and fighting for our us yet the media looks for anyway to make them the bad guy. Its really sad.

[ICE74129]

This is th edumbest article in the history of military coverage. Who wrote this? The AP? I promise you it wasn't anyone who had ever been in combat, let alone an ambush. Laser eye surgery measn nothing. Pilots get it all the time, it helps them. I have 20/15 vision and I have had tunnel vision in combat. You don't always identify shooters while being ambushed, you just shoot anything outside your box. I could list on here all the reasons that artilce is ridiculous and wrong, but I'm sure you don't want to hear it. I could also tell you all the mistakes Pat made on that day, but that would be almost as unfair as blamin gth eother Rangers for his death.

The Special Operations Community hs become pretty sick of the Tillman story. This kind of thing happens all the time in STS, SOF, NSW and so on. Why is it so important that it is Tillman? I thought he wanted to be lik everyone else? Hos brother Kevin, was even turned down by a differnt Ranger battalion because they didn't want him because of all his comments.

It is sad Pat died, but criminal investigating other Rangers is ridiculous, especially whenm Pat made so many mistakes. This is not a cover up, this is what happens in SOF, jsut became news after the Tillman family used their celebrity status to push it. As a NCO I have seen the military tell families their loved one died saving the day, just to be comforting. Even though the member died because he messed up. Is that what they should have done?

Stop all this crap, it's stupid. As a former member of a STS (Special Tactics Squadron), who served from Kosovo, to Southern No Fly Zone in Iraq both under Clinton, and then Afghanistan and back to Iraq under Bush along with numerous other missions, these things happen no matter what. Just because you hate the current President doesn't mean he had anything to do with this.

If we want to debate war and what went wrong that day, just let me know. This garbage and theories have to stop. If shooting at targets while being ambushed in a war zone without identifying them first is a crime, then every person who has ever been outnumbered in an ambush would be in jail. War isn't as simple as TV and the movies make it. Crap happens all the time. Get over it, ot join SOF, STS or NSW and see for yourself.

And I served as a 19K in the first desert storm. The article is dead on, those guys ****ed up royally.

[BidsJr]

And I served as a 19K in the first desert storm. The article is dead on, those guys ****ed up royally.

Dr., your patient has arrived.

[BidsJr]

This is th edumbest article in the history of military coverage. Who wrote this? The AP? I promise you it wasn't anyone who had ever been in combat, let alone an ambush. Laser eye surgery measn nothing. Pilots get it all the time, it helps them. I have 20/15 vision and I have had tunnel vision in combat. You don't always identify shooters while being ambushed, you just shoot anything outside your box. I could list on here all the reasons that artilce is ridiculous and wrong, but I'm sure you don't want to hear it. I could also tell you all the mistakes Pat made on that day, but that would be almost as unfair as blamin gth eother Rangers for his death.

The Special Operations Community hs become pretty sick of the Tillman story. This kind of thing happens all the time in STS, SOF, NSW and so on. Why is it so important that it is Tillman? I thought he wanted to be lik everyone else? Hos brother Kevin, was even turned down by a differnt Ranger battalion because they didn't want him because of all his comments.

It is sad Pat died, but criminal investigating other Rangers is ridiculous, especially whenm Pat made so many mistakes. This is not a cover up, this is what happens in SOF, jsut became news after the Tillman family used their celebrity status to push it. As a NCO I have seen the military tell families their loved one died saving the day, just to be comforting. Even though the member died because he messed up. Is that what they should have done?

Stop all this crap, it's stupid. As a former member of a STS (Special Tactics Squadron), who served from Kosovo, to Southern No Fly Zone in Iraq both under Clinton, and then Afghanistan and back to Iraq under Bush along with numerous other missions, these things happen no matter what. Just because you hate the current President doesn't mean he had anything to do with this.

If we want to debate war and what went wrong that day, just let me know. This garbage and theories have to stop. If shooting at targets while being ambushed in a war zone without identifying them first is a crime, then every person who has ever been outnumbered in an ambush would be in jail. War isn't as simple as TV and the movies make it. Crap happens all the time. Get over it, ot join SOF, STS or NSW and see for yourself.

You my friend are right on the money.

Thank you so very much for your service to this country btw.

I pray for all of you and your familys every day.