OL is no longer priority #1

[ublinkwescore]

Re: OL is no longer priority #1

I disagree too. We need to draft for competition to keep this unit as strong as possible - though when draft day comes, I think I'd probably go after the best DT available in Marv's eyes with pick #1 - hopefully we can trade down from #10 or where ever we draft at (I know we won't be drafting #8 this year) to around #20-25 to pick up that DT stud (or maybe we bring in big name free agent that Marv really likes and still go DT stud in the draft - then OL the rest of the way), and then get that guard help/competition/depth (whatever he turns out to be).

That's what I would do. I don't care how decrepit our skill position players become - Skill position players don't make a difference - the men in the trenches do because they elevate the skill position players' games. And they're a dime a dozen.

[ublinkwescore]

Re: OL is no longer priority #1

I really don't see why we can't make some kind of adjustment at DT (going for bigger slightly slower guys - who can still get into the backfield at will) while still playing cover two in the rest of the D.

[mchurchfie]

Re: OL is no longer priority #1

I used to think priority one was the OL.. I was wrong.. Its clearly becoming the DL.

I disagree. We should draft OL for the next 4 years just to make up for the last 15 year of neglect and underestimation that has been bestowed upon it. I agree that we we definitely need some more ass on the DL, but enough is enough with this OL experimentation. Everything and all resources possible that are available to make it better should be used. Screw all of these third string journeymen free agents and later round drat choices that we keep bringing in to save the day. We need to get a much greater sense of urgency into making this OL halfway competent. I'm really getting tired of seeing it get *****slapped around all of the time.

[oak tree 12]

Re: OL is no longer priority #1

I used to think priority one was the OL.. I was wrong.. Its clearly becoming the DL.

Both need help, but the OL is at least playing average since the bye.. the DL is totally falling APART.

I think Schobel and Tripplett are back as starters next year, but we CLEARLY need a new starting DT and DE.

K Williams is a player, but I dont think he's a first and second down starter.. He's a good rotational player and so will be McCargo (though a first rounder was too high).. THey need a run stuffer to start next to Tripplett.

and an upgrade over Kelsay is a necessity too.

Unless you want to keep seeing teams pound away on the ground. our Run D is getting more embarassing each week.

and Ko Simpson does have a knack for being around the ball, but he's a lousy open field tackler to this point.

couldn't disagree more. did you see the chargers game our o/lin got mauled, we need 2 big mauler type guards.
in regards to mccargo,i cant see how you can make that statement,he was very highly rated and would have gone to the nyg in the first round if we hadn't leapfrogged them,the jury is still out @ the very least!!!!!!
i do agree we need 1 big d/lineman.
ko simpson is going to be fine,lt makes alot of players look bad.
i do think we need another impact linebacker unfortunately i think spikes is not the same player,i hope i'am wrong and next year he looks better,but he's a shell of his old self now.

[Elminster]

Re: OL is no longer priority #1

I live in Northwest Indiana so you dont have to tell me who the Bears have on their team. I guarantee you that their D-line outweights our D-line. Tommy Harris is probably one of the best if not the best defensive tackles in the game. It is a proven fact here in Buffalo when you had the big guys in the middle that we were at the top in run defense in the league.

Why are you arguing with me...and what are you trying to say? Don't you understand we're running the same system as the Bears? So we want DTs like their's? I understand they're not the best run-stoppers, but they're pretty damned good at it, and I was illustrating how you don't NEED two 340+ lb. DTs in the middle of your line to get the job done on the ground. The whole point is that the Bears do a fine job without a Pat Williams type(and I'd take him back in an instant ...because he could get upfield too!) My point is...we need to get stronger, not fatter...

[HHURRICANE]

Re: OL is no longer priority #1

Why does everyone around here make everything so difficult?

1) A starting RG and LG should be the number one priority.

2) A starting DT or two to replace the failed Anderson/Jefferson experiment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3) If we are not moving Hargrove than a starting DE to replace the failed Denney/Kelsay experiment.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4) LB's to replace Spikes and or add depth which we obviously don't have.

After that's accomplished through FA and draft than maybe we can look at skill positions. PERIOD.

5) RB if we use McGahee as trade bait or draft in the lower rounds (5,6,7).

6) WR, BIG, BIG, BIG SIZE!!!!! No more speedy midgets!!!

TE should be at the very bottom!! Way bigger holes to fill and I'm sick and tired of wasting a pick on a TE. A big WR could fill the gap and make this even less of a priority. Royal will be here next year and has played well. If Cieslak keeps playing well than we should be able to pick up a #3 if Everett doesn't learn how to read over the summer.

[justasportsfan]

Re: OL is no longer priority #1

I don't think we have talent on OL to be DOMINANT. We porbably have enough to be average but not good enough to take on dominant defenses like the bears.

If you want JP and the running game to be consistent, give them a consistently dominant OL. Marv put priority on the D in his first year. It's tiime he builds the offense next year. Just grab one DT and resign Clements.

Hurricane, I disagree with replacing Spikes now and DE is not our biggest need. DT is on D.

[mysticsoto]

Re: OL is no longer priority #1

I don't think we have talent on OL to be DOMINANT. We porbably have enough to be average but not good enough to take on dominant defenses like the bears.

If you want JP and the running game to be consistent, give them a consistently dominant OL. Marv put priority on the D in his first year. It's tiime he builds the offense next year. Just grab one DT and resign Clements.

Hurricane, I disagree with replacing Spikes now and DE is not our biggest need. DT is on D.

Agreed on most pts, but don't underestimate the need for LBs. For all we know, TKO may never return 100% - like what happened to Sam Cowart. Fletcher may not be here next year also, or may demand too much money for his age...despite his great level of play. We need a dominating ILB to tackle where our DTs fail.

I want our OL to be dominant also, but if we plug up the RG hole, it may be "good enough" for now. Right now, the gaping hole in our Run-D is bigger than at any other part of our team!!!

[PECKERWOOD]

Re: OL is no longer priority #1

This is honestly a joke of a thread. If you don't think our OL needs to be upgraded still, you aren't watching the same football that I am.

[kernowboy]

Re: OL is no longer priority #1

Why does everyone around here make everything so difficult?

1) A starting RG and LG should be the number one priority.

2) A starting DT or two to replace the failed Anderson/Jefferson experiment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3) If we are not moving Hargrove than a starting DE to replace the failed Denney/Kelsay experiment.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4) LB's to replace Spikes and or add depth which we obviously don't have.

After that's accomplished through FA and draft than maybe we can look at skill positions. PERIOD.

5) RB if we use McGahee as trade bait or draft in the lower rounds (5,6,7).

6) WR, BIG, BIG, BIG SIZE!!!!! No more speedy midgets!!!

TE should be at the very bottom!! Way bigger holes to fill and I'm sick and tired of wasting a pick on a TE. A big WR could fill the gap and make this even less of a priority. Royal will be here next year and has played well. If Cieslak keeps playing well than we should be able to pick up a #3 if Everett doesn't learn how to read over the summer.

Okay HHuricane

1) At guard, Steinbach will cost a fortune - maybe too much - so I say grab Vince Manuwai from the Jags who is young and has upside. David Diehl would be my next choice. We could probably get both for the same price. I also think a longer look at Aaron Merz has merit. Once out of the playoffs, if Gandy isn't going to re-sign we bench him and give Merz 2 or 3 games.
2) Looking at the lists the best prospects appear to be Ian Scott NT with the Bears and Rien Long of the Titans at present. There is also not a lot of size in the draft. Unless we go for Alan Branch the biggest senior is Justin Harrell of Tennesse at 6ft4 300lbs. A small school prospect could be Damion DeRosia NT at 6ft5 320lbs
3) Possible DEs depending on the FA lists include Charles Grant (Saints), Justin Smith (Bengals) and Pat Kerney (Falcons) - for me we break the bank to get Patrick
4) Again there are very few standouts here. I think this should be the R1 focus for the draft as we could trade down, get an extra day one pick and still come away with Posluzny or Pat Willis both of who can play in or out
5) We trade McGahee for a R2 in 2008. The RB depth here is great and the extra pick will allow us to manouvre in that draft. Look at the free agency I think we could do a deal and get our big WR as well. A-Train can carry the load but Clifton Dawson from Harvard can spell him if we grab him in the 6th. At 5ft10 and about 200lbs he's big enough for a few carries
6) If we trade McGahee to the Jags I want then to throw in Ernest Wilford as part of the deal. He's an RFA, but 6ft4 223lbs, has a decent record as a 3rd receiver and would relish the chance to step up.

IMHO I disagree about TE. One of our biggest mistakes was not taking Jason Witten in 2003. Every great team has a very good TE but Royal is average at best. If Greg Olsen falls to us in the 2nd it would be insane not to take him.

I would also want to get a OL who can play LT on Day1. Guys like Doug Free are dropping and if they fall to the third I would hope we would use the extra pick from the R1 trade down to grab him. If Peters got injured the season would be over. The Pats did well in 2005 cos when Light went down Kaczur came in. I also think Butler will put on sufficient weight and step up

In my dreams I would like a FA of Patrick Kerney, Ernest Wilford, Vince Manuwai and/or David Diehl plus shipping out Holcomb and getting Patrick Ramsay as a backup QB - better than Nall followed by a draft that might look like this

R1 Posluszny I/OLB (after trade down)
R2 Olsen TE
R3a Harrell NT
R3b Free LT (extra pick)
R4 Eric Weddle DB (both SS and CB cover)
R5 to Rams for Hargrove
R6 Dawson RB
R7 DeRosia NT

We will look like this then

QB Losman .............. RE Schobel
WR Evans .................DT Triplett/McCargo
WR Wilford .............. NT HARRELL/Williams
TE OLSEN.................. LE Kerney
LT Peters ..................SLB Crowell
LG Merz ....................MLB POSLUZNY or WILLIS
C Fowler ...................WLB Ellison
RG Manuwai/Diehl........RCB Clements
RT Butler?..................LCB McGee
RB A-Train..................FS Simpson
TE Royal.....................SS Whitner

[justasportsfan]

Re: OL is no longer priority #1

Agreed on most pts, but don't underestimate the need for LBs. For all we know, TKO may never return 100% - like what happened to Sam Cowart. Fletcher may not be here next year also, or may demand too much money for his age...despite his great level of play. We need a dominating ILB to tackle where our DTs fail.

I want our OL to be dominant also, but if we plug up the RG hole, it may be "good enough" for now. Right now, the gaping hole in our Run-D is bigger than at any other part of our team!!!

I don't think Fletcher is going anywhere. At his age, he won't be asking for much and he is flourishing in the new system. I think he will be taking that into account. As for our lb's , yes Spikes may or may not be back to full form but that doesn't not make that a top priority. Yes, there's Cowart and there's Peterson. A dominant DL will make our lb's and DB's look better just like a dominant OL with make the qb, TE and wr look better.

[kernowboy]

Re: OL is no longer priority #1

Unfortunately he has Rosenhaus the devil as his agent. Whilst he is a good player he is in the twilight of his career, and paying big money for ageing vets has not worked for us

[Akhippo]

Re: OL is no longer priority #1

This line needs interior lineman. They dont get drafted that high usually so the bulk fall in the rounds. The Tamps 2 was good because of Sapp, Rice, Brooks and Lynch. We may have a Rice and Lynch, but we def. need a Sapp and Brooks.

Without being a draft expert and knowing everyone coming out and where. LB, DT, and G should be the first three picks however the order.
Resign Nate.

[kernowboy]

Re: OL is no longer priority #1

This line needs interior lineman. They dont get drafted that high usually so the bulk fall in the rounds. The Tamps 2 was good because of Sapp, Rice, Brooks and Lynch. We may have a Rice and Lynch, but we def. need a Sapp and Brooks.

Without being a draft expert and knowing everyone coming out and where. LB, DT, and G should be the first three picks however the order.
Resign Nate.

Not even considering Steinbach, both Vince Manuwai and David Diehl would be great FA pickups. My favourite DT is Justin Harrell. He played for Tennessee despite a torn bicep, is big enough at over 300lbs and has a rep at stopping the run. In R1 the LBs are slipping so we could trade down and get an extra Day1 pick. I still think we can't pass on a top TE if they are there in R2. R3 goes on Harrell (fingers crossed) and the extra pick on one of the OTs who are bound to fall if only to get cover if something happens to Peters

[Bmax]

Re: OL is no longer priority #1

I have posted this before...Pick up a vet DT for Anderson... Say Robaire Smith or Hollis Thomas...Thomas is having a good year with the saints ...Heis older so his contract should not be that high...if he doesn't re sign with the saints...


If not Branch is likely gone by the time we pick .. Right now he is a top 10 piick with teams ahead of us craving a dt .. Redskins, browns.....Buccaners....

Wait to rd two or take Okam texas...


Here goes .....


1.Okam- or Blaylock Rg--Texas....Hey forget about williams this kid can play...

2. Siler Florida-MLB-6-2-235 and has speed needs to bulk up a little..Grubbs- auburn G.....

3.Sears-TennOG-could be rd 2 pick......Harrell-DT or Jackson DT arkansas-short tough fire plug dt.....

4.Kenny scott-ga tech...Talley Duke.. could go higher say rd 2 or 3 for talley...

It all depends what we do with free agency....I expect the bills to find some pieces there then add with the draft ..No big earth shaking signings ...(Ie Freeney-Briggs)...

Bmax