In with Posey, out with Newman, a big improvement, right?

[WG]

For anyone thinking that Posey was a great signing, here are some facts:

Posey's played 6 seasons in the NFL with 4 different teams. He's started only 27 games and never a full season. He's never done anything, but when he has, it was this past season on a team that played a 3-4, had a decent defensively minded coach, on a team that was dead last in time-of-possession with an average of well over a minute less than the 31st ranked team.

He's had 11 sacks in those 6 seasons, 8 in this past one, 3 in the other 5. He's had 94 solo tackles with half of those coming this past season as well, the other half in the other 5 seasons.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/player...s?statsId=4534

The word is that Posey's a pass rushing type of LB. He's 6'4", 249 and will be 28 by the time this season starts.


In contrast and comparison, there's Newman, a player that many of us felt was simply snubbed b/c he was a Butler hire. He seems to have played just as well if not better than Posey.

He's also 6'2", 248 but will only be 26 this season and just entering his prime. In 4 seasons he's started 42 games, logged 128 solo tackles and 14.5 sacks in spite of not being given much of shot this past season. He also has a career high 8 sacks in a season but with much better overall performances otherwise.

To recap comparatively:

Posey/Newman
Size: 6'4/249; 6'2"/248
Seasons: 6/4
Career high sacks: 8/8
Career total sacks: 11/14.5
Season high solo tackles: 47/61
Career total solo tackles: 94 (15.7 avg.)/128 (32 avg.)

So why does TD and GW seem to feel that somehow Posey's gonna be anything more than what they thought Newman wasn't. It's beyond me frankly. Meanwhile, reports are that Houston wants Newman and considers him to be at least an equal replacement for Posey.

Go figure!

Our next move had better be a big one.

[John Doe]

Lots of things are "beyond" you.

[WG]

Oh, Hooo, you're killing me...

What, another liberal!

GREAT insights!

[WG]

P.S. Statements like that usually represent acquiessence by the inability to refute the arguments.

So I'll take that as a nod of agreement then.

Thanks!

[TypicalBill]

i think both players are very similar. The money each player wants could have played a major role IMO in this one. I dont know what Newman was asking for, if he wanted more than what Posey got then im with the move, if not, then i dont understand the move.

[WG]

I hear ya TB. But I don't see how a player who's struggled for 6 seasons before going to the worst team in the league, certainly an expansion team at any rate, with the worst O in the league, is worth the money we're paying him. I don't want to belabor the point, but how many other players w/ similar credentials at other positions or the same, are gonna get that kind of money?

Last year it was Robinson, this year it's Posey. I really think we're all gonna be highly disappointed and Posey will be on the chopping block next year again. We'll see, but I think Newman's fate had more to do with team politics than past performance. That's my take. He wasn't given any opps hardly. And in the past when called upon, he's responded. Otherwise what, are his 8 sacks in a season to be discounted while someone with far fewer overall and on a per average basis, while his 8 seem to bring hopes that override 5 other seasons of poor play and non-contribution?

We'll see, we have no choice. I only want a winning team on the field. I ranted last season that solid D would do more for that than outstanding offense. Yet our offense only brought us to .500 last year and at the hands of scrub teams no less. We simply won't be much better without some serious help on D. Posey is not "serious" help. He's a starting player and even that's debatable.

Meanwhile, everyone keeps applauding Donahoe, for what? For not getting key interviews? For not bringing Thornton or DTs in for talks? Our biggest need right now is DT, and whom have we talked to for interviews? Any of the top 5 or 6 DTs available? Not based on anything that I've heard. For tying up nearly half our FA money on a player that we'd be best to get rid of? For signing who? Posey? Campbell?

I just don't understand why TD's doing such a great job so far this season. When, and if he trades Price, then it'll be a coup if he gets a first rounder out of it. But much less than that and I'll argue to the hills that it won't have been worth tying up the bucks.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
I don't want to belabor the point,

Yeah right

[justasportsfan]

Wys, I don't understand your logic on the Posey signing. I won't argue that compared to Newman , Posey may not be much of anything. I think Newman will be a good player for another team.


What I fail to see is how you ague that he is a journeyman and yet you wanted to sign Blake or keep Rob for a million bucks over Drew for vet min. I kinda lost count but how many teams has Blake and Rob played for and done squat?

[WG]

I know you do just, and that's part of why you differ w/ me so much. Apparently you have difficulty understanding the marginal utility notion too. As long as that's the case, you're right, you won't understand.

I certainly can't put it any simpler although I'll give it one last shot.

Signing Blake, who played quite well I might add, would have allowed us to sign to bigger name players on D, or at least one anyway, a DT presumably. One could argue that we'd have also been 8-8 w/ a much better DL.

As to marginal utility re: Price, let's assume we could sign Moss right now for $5M would it be worth it? Many would argue yes. But the fact of the matter is that such a signing would not improve the team as much as addressing glaring weaknesses on D. Fine, Peterson is overrated. But he's still infinitely better than what we have now or had this past season and would help cement this up and coming D into an allstar unit. Perhaps he'd be the missing link from a chemistry perspective.

I can almost assure you that Posey isn't.

We only signed three players that had and immediate and season changing impact last year: Bledsoe, Williams, and Reed. There wasn't one other signing that did. You could argue Fletcher, but again, that's debatable.

[justasportsfan]

I may not know my football as well as you wys , but I certainly can see contradiction when I see one.

[WG]

Your problem is that you argue whatever I say. I find it difficult to take you seriously. I don't know if you're joshin' or what.

Say what you will to the contrary. Much of what I say isn't even really football related much of the time. It's merely common sense and logical deducement insofar as football/the Bills are concerned.

Ie., this entire Price v. the D thing. All you need is a rudimentary knowledge of how good our D was in relation to how good our O was this past season to realize that we don't need to upgrade our O at all and need to upgrade our D incredibly.

[justasportsfan]

Even if we signed Spikes, Douglas, Peterson , Thorton and keep Price (impossible).....I would be optimistic , but I won't say he did a great job in the offseason until we win a SB.

[Bulldog]

Wys, what would have been the Bills record if they would have not signed Drew and went with D'. If youa re going to tell me above .500 with either Blake or Rob at QB, you are out of your mind. The bottom line is that Buffalo had way too many holes to fill for one offseason. TD decided to go with offense to put some butts in the seats at the Ralph. This offseason, he will address the D'. I would suggest that you reserve your judgement until he is done making moves.

[justasportsfan]

You've agreed with me wys when I said before that I don't care if we lose Price as long as we beef up our D. We both agree on this.

Yup, sometimes I'm just playin' . Remember the BB.com days how you said I was negative re: the qb situation? The tables have turned and I will have my fun with your negativity.

[justasportsfan]

BTW, I too don't know if your Joshin' coz' I know your start threads and create controversy on this board just to see what peoples reaction are and see if you can argue with their logic. i.e. Bryson

[WG]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
Even if we signed Spikes, Douglas, Peterson , Thorton and keep Price (impossible).....I would be optimistic , but I won't say he did a great job in the offseason until we win a SB.

just, there are a lot of other reasons as to why we might not win a SB. Injuries head the list. Poor coaching decisions. You can't pin the entire thing on Donahoe. He does his job this offseason and then the coaches take over along w/ the players. It's perfectly possible that he puts up a stellar offseason yet the team, for whatever reason, doesn't play as well as it could have.

Originally posted by Bulldog
Wys, what would have been the Bills record if they would have not signed Drew and went with D'. If youa re going to tell me above .500 with either Blake or Rob at QB, you are out of your mind. The bottom line is that Buffalo had way too many holes to fill for one offseason. TD decided to go with offense to put some butts in the seats at the Ralph. This offseason, he will address the D'. I would suggest that you reserve your judgement until he is done making moves.

Bulldog,

So inherent in your statement is that there is no chance on earth that with a significantly better D, that we would have beaten 2-14 Cincy, 3-13 Chicago, 4-12 Houston, 4-12 Detroit, 6-10 Minnesota, 8-8 S.D., an incredibly weakened Miami team twice or have won at least two other games.

That's fine. I think we easily could have and even beaten the Pats once or twice with Blake at QB and a better D. Heck, we only put up 16 offensive points in one Miami game, the best team we beat. You really don't think that Blake could have led the Bills to 1 TD and 3 FGs v. a Miami team w/ no O and only a fraction of the D they've had in recent years?

Well, OK. Like I said, this isn't a question that we're ever going to get an answer to. But I will say this, if 8-8 was all due to Drew, then how come he was 0-8 w/ nearly twice as many INTs than TDs v. the good teams?

A difference of opinion.

[Bulldog]

Wys, I didn't say that we woulden't have beaten those same teams without Drew and a better D. What I said was we had too many holes to fill for one offseason. While the D may have stepped up and won some games, there would have been times when the offense struggled and coulden't put up the points needed to win.

[TedMock]

I hope Posey pans out. I actually like Newman and feel that he was misused. I think as of now this signing is a stalemate. If the Newman "old regime" theory is true, which it very well could be, maybe they'll blitz Posey more and it'll be for the best. I hope.

[WG]

Yeah, me too TM. My only thought however is that if they "use Posey properly", it will be in the exact same manner in which they should have used Newman. Who's to say Posey's the better player of the two? Their records and accomplishments speak to the contrary.

Originally posted by Bulldog
Wys, I didn't say that we woulden't have beaten those same teams without Drew and a better D. What I said was we had too many holes to fill for one offseason. While the D may have stepped up and won some games, there would have been times when the offense struggled and coulden't put up the points needed to win.

Actually Bulldog, with your initial statement, that's just about exactly the essence of what you said. You said we wouldn't have been 8-8 w/o Drew. You said that "I'd be out of my mind to suggest/think that we'd have been 8-8 w/o Drew and had gone w/ D instead."

[TedMock]

I agree Wys. I don't think Posey's the better player but maybe the change in scenery for Newman and the Bills would be better for both. I still think we could've kept Newman and just replaced Robinson but they weren't high on him for whatever reason. They guy had 8 sacks in his 2nd seasnon, first as a starter, and was a sack machine at North Carolina. It doesn't just go away. I guess it's just time to change even if it's for the "same" player.